Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
500<400 (RESULTS)
Polls: 1994 (Oct 20th), 1997 awards (Oct 24th), 1940s (Oct 26th), Shorts (Nov 16th), Knockout competition (Round 2)
Challenges: Horror, TSPDT, Latin America + Caribbean, 2020 schedule
Film of the Week: Finis terrae, November nominations (Nov 1st)
World Cup S4: Manager sign-up

iCM Forum's Favourite Films of the Current Decade So Far; 2019 edition; Results

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
Post Reply
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 3272
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Films of the Current Decade So Far; 2019 edition; Results

#161

Post by Fergenaprido » July 6th, 2019, 2:40 pm

Movies seen: 103/250 (41%)
Movies I voted for: 83/250 (33%) (21% of my list of 400)
Highest movie unseen: #5 The Act of Killing
Highest favourite: #1 A Separation
Highest dislike: #177 Small Roads
Highest (non-favourite) movie I voted for: #2 The Grand Budapest Hotel
Highest (non-dislike) movie seen I didn't vote for: #13 The Social Network
Position of my #1: #15 Inception
My highest vote that didn't make the list: #263 Weekend (my #2)


As for this list being too US-centric, I was noticing how many East Asian films were making the list compared to other decades. Just did a quick breakdown of the 250, and as best as I can tell, it's like this:
Country BreakdownShow
107 USA
24 FRA
22 GBR
9 JAP
7 CAN KOR
6 DEN
5 GER IRL
4 BEL CHN HUN ITA
3 ARG ESP POR SWE
2 HKG IRN MEX PHL POL TUR TWN
1 AUS AUT CHL COL FIN IDN ISR MRT NED NOR NZL ROM RUS SAU SUI THA

User avatar
cinewest
Posts: 1083
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
Contact:

#162

Post by cinewest » July 6th, 2019, 3:01 pm

@matthewscott8

You are right about many arthouse filmmakers (or artists in general) being unknown in their country of origin. I just wish more filmmakers who make films in a language other than English, and are culturally and artistically distinctive were more "popular" in this forum.

User avatar
cinewest
Posts: 1083
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
Contact:

#163

Post by cinewest » July 6th, 2019, 3:13 pm

@Fergenaprido

I have only been using this forum for a couple of years, but I would say that in general East Asian (Japan, So. Korea, and China) films are quite popular here, once we go beyond USA, GBR, and France, at least as popular as the films from North/Central European countries and Canada.
It's the rest of the world that mostly gets left out, unless we are talking about the 1960's.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2974
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#164

Post by Onderhond » July 6th, 2019, 3:14 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 1:35 pm
It's a consensus list so pretty much everything that wins has to have had a high level of watchedness and cultural familiarity.
Don't really agree with this. The list of participants is small enough for smaller groups of like-minded fans to make an impact on the final results. It just looks like a lot of ICM people are watching and liking the same kind of films.

User avatar
Mothravka
Posts: 132
Joined: Jan 18, 2016
Location: Европа
Contact:

#165

Post by Mothravka » July 6th, 2019, 3:25 pm

Movies seen: 240/250
Movies I voted for: 23/250
Highest movie unseen: #58 Exit Through the Gift Shop (2010)
Position of my #1: #25 The Turin Horse (2011)
Highest movie I didn't vote for: #1 A Separation (2011)
Highest movie I don't like: #2 The Grand Budapest Hotel (2014)
My highest vote that didn't make the list: #332 Cemetery of Splendor (2015) (my #7)
Last edited by Mothravka on July 6th, 2019, 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
cinewest
Posts: 1083
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
Contact:

#166

Post by cinewest » July 6th, 2019, 4:53 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 3:14 pm
matthewscott8 wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 1:35 pm
It's a consensus list so pretty much everything that wins has to have had a high level of watchedness and cultural familiarity.
Don't really agree with this. The list of participants is small enough for smaller groups of like-minded fans to make an impact on the final results. It just looks like a lot of ICM people are watching and liking the same kind of films.
Agree that most people here seem to converge around films on "Official Lists," and while it's clear to me that there are some very different tastes on this board, the lists generated here seem to be influenced mostly by "small clicks" that have similar taste (If only 80 people are voting, a group of 10 can be pretty powerful).

User avatar
TajSamKojiJesam
Posts: 97
Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Contact:

#167

Post by TajSamKojiJesam » July 6th, 2019, 6:32 pm

Movies seen: 62/250
Movies I voted for: 16/250
Highest movie unseen: #2 The Grand Budapest Hotel (2014)
Position of my #1: #25 The Turin Horse (2011)
Highest movie I don't like: #11 Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance) (2014)
My highest vote that didn't make the list: #296 'Til Madness Do Us Part (2013) (my #3)

User avatar
Ebbywebby
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sep 10, 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

#168

Post by Ebbywebby » July 6th, 2019, 6:59 pm

Oh, so Perception de Ambiguity is the one responsible for littering every poll with those damn Björk/Lana del Rey/Lady Gaga videos. Grumble. I wonder how many films on the complete-results list are solely there because of his bloated ballot?

PS WOW, this list is obscure: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+2010s/mothravka/

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 6094
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#169

Post by albajos » July 6th, 2019, 7:41 pm

Previous list: Too late to find out. It was 53,6 when we had the forum list challenge in December.
This list: 60,4% seen

151/250
Voted for 199 - 65 ended up on in the top 250.

Highest # I voted for - #1 Jodaeiye Nader az Simin (#74)
Highest # not voted for - #2 The Grand Budapest Hotel
Highest # unseen #25 A torinói ló
# of my number 1 - #46 Oslo, 31. august
Highest favorite: #3 Jagten
Highest dislike: none in the top 250 - #654 Birdemic: Shock and Terror

Highest movie I voted for outside of list: #256 Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
My personal highest ranked movie outside of the list: #916 O le tulafale (#2)
Highest movie only I voted for: Don't know yet, but probably the same

The guessing game
LPo MPo DI
003 004 01 Jagten
201 198 03 The Avengers
029 033 04 Manchester by the Sea
004 012 08 Her
011 021 10 Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
(List Position - My Position - Difference)

Top5 unseen
#25 A torinói ló
#37 El abrazo de la serpiente
#42 Mommy
#47 Before Midnight
#54 Jauja

matthewscott8
Donator
Posts: 1526
Joined: May 13, 2015
Contact:

#170

Post by matthewscott8 » July 6th, 2019, 8:21 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 3:14 pm
matthewscott8 wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 1:35 pm
It's a consensus list so pretty much everything that wins has to have had a high level of watchedness and cultural familiarity.
Don't really agree with this. The list of participants is small enough for smaller groups of like-minded fans to make an impact on the final results. It just looks like a lot of ICM people are watching and liking the same kind of films.
But polls of this sort literally wipes all the diversity away, people here watch all sorts of films but the structure of a consensus poll erases that.

There were 77 participants, to get first place required 48 of those participants to vote for the film, I imagine that almost everyone who saw it voted for it. Tell me what scenario you are wishing for. In the run up to a 2020s poll are we all to ignore high profile directors we adore and all to simulataneously travel to the same film festival in Tallinn to see a film that will never be released outside a festival, then we vote on it. I would be quite happy to turn ICM into a massive version of the Ferroni Brigade but it's impractical unless we have a secret multi-millionaire benefactor in our presence.

One of the movies I loved at a festival last year was crusades era film called Krizácek. It's got 3 checks on ICM and has hardly any availability. To get 250th place on this list, you needed 12 votes (Ulrich Seidl's Paradise Love). So even if every ICM user that had seen it, came here, voted, and had in their list, it still wouldn't have made it.

If you want to know about movies like that, you will have to have do a completely different thread, "Tell me about non-English language films from the 2010s that you loved and should be more widely known about."

Also with a poll you won't find challenging movies, because if everyone understood the movie and got the most out of it, it wouldn't be challenging.

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 6094
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#171

Post by albajos » July 6th, 2019, 8:47 pm

We do have a list with ratings only, so if you wonder if how those results it is supposed to updated soon.
https://themagician.000webhostapp.com/h ... tures.html

So if you're not happy with this type of calculation, just focus on the other list.
We have this discussion every time even if the rules are clear as day.

User avatar
flaiky
Posts: 1422
Joined: Feb 04, 2017
Location: London UK
Contact:

#172

Post by flaiky » July 6th, 2019, 9:06 pm

Yeah come on, I'm sure everyone's ballot contained obscure/personal favourites, but people generally also have favourites from the 'big acclaimed' films because, well, big acclaimed films clearly have wide appeal, that's how they achieve that status. There seems to be some expectation that users here will collectively go against the grain, but, why? How? Even so, 35 films on the list have <1000 ICM checks but that still gets dismissed as mere "clique voting". :shrug:

Anyway, I do agree that it's good to highlight smaller films, so I exported the full list and used that to create our top 250 films with <1000 checks.

ICM Forum: 2010s obscure(r) top 250

I think it shows that we still value an interesting range of films.
Let the ashes fly
ICM | Letterboxd | All-time stats

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2974
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#173

Post by Onderhond » July 6th, 2019, 10:10 pm

Myeah, I know all the excuses/reasons given, I just don't buy it. And it's not even about obscurity, personal taste or "challenging movies", it's about different perspectives and tastes coming together in a single list. It's about balance, not about certain films getting in/not getting in.

For example, supposedly ICM has a horror mafia, but I sure didn't see them in this list. It's not like people have stopped making horror films in the past 10 years, all that gets in though is critics-approved stuff like Get Out or Us. Not horrible films, but from a horror perspective not the most exciting films. You need 7 people to get a film into this Top 250, yet only 35 films with < 1000 ICM checks made it? This board could really do with a few more "mafias" is what I'm saying.

I mean, you made an obscure list with Bi Gan, Tsai and Koreeda films in it ... if I wanted critics lists, I would just seek out critics.

User avatar
ChrisReynolds
Donator
Posts: 2451
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

#174

Post by ChrisReynolds » July 6th, 2019, 10:59 pm

My stats:
Movies seen: 147/250
Movies I voted for: 71/250
Highest movie unseen: #20 La vie d'Adèle (2013)
Position of my #1: #3 Jagten (2012)
Highest movie I didn't vote for: #4 Her (2013)
Highest movie I disliked: #502 Pieta (2012)
My highest vote that didn't make the list: #592 The Clock (2010) (my #4)

Thanks for running the poll, LoneWolf.

User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 29619
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#175

Post by mightysparks » July 6th, 2019, 11:42 pm

Lol there is no horror mafia, there are about 5 of us. I wish there was so I would be happier with the poll results. And the tiny few of us who do exist (and happened to vote on this poll) don’t agree on everything anyway. Most of the films on my list that didn’t make it were horror or genre films. And I didn’t vote for Get Out.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | IMDb | LastFM | TSZDT

Image

User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 6928
Joined: Jun 07, 2016
Location: Seattle-ish, WA, USA
Contact:

#176

Post by maxwelldeux » July 6th, 2019, 11:49 pm

Apparently, I don't watch a lot of recent stuff. And huge chunk of what I have watched are documentaries or mainstream stuff that gets talked about a lot so I can keep up with recent conversations or satisfy my wife's film interests.

Seen: 88/250; 354/3629
Highest movie I voted for: #1 A Separation (my #26)
Highest unseen movie: #9 Drive (2011)
Position of my #1: #736 Bo Burnham: Make Happy (2016)

User avatar
TraverseTown
Posts: 255
Joined: Jan 25, 2013
Location: USA
Contact:

#177

Post by TraverseTown » July 6th, 2019, 11:49 pm

My stats:
Movies seen: 219/250
Highest movie unseen: #73 Long Day's Journey Into Night
Position of my #1: #28 Spring Breakers
Highest movie I didn't vote for: #2 Grand Budapest Hotel
Highest movie I disliked: #54 Mysteries of Lisbon
My highest vote that didn't make the list: Ingrid Goes West (my #2)

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2974
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#178

Post by Onderhond » July 7th, 2019, 9:55 am

mightysparks wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 11:42 pm
Lol there is no horror mafia, there are about 5 of us.
Saw it mentioned a couple of times on the forum, but probably in countdowns were uber-classics like Nosferatu and Frankenstein were eligible.

I'm just disappointed that titles like Swiss Army Man, Beyond the Black Rainbow or Hardcore Henry (just to name a few, it's not about these titles specifically) didn't make the cut. So yeah, more mafias, a I wouldn't mind a better balance within different aspects of cinema, many of which are completely overlooked here.

User avatar
cinewest
Posts: 1083
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
Contact:

#179

Post by cinewest » July 7th, 2019, 11:19 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 2:44 am
cinewest wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 1:03 am
Ebbywebby wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 6:10 pm
#21 (NEW) The Favourite (Yorgos Lanthimos, 2018)

At this point in the countdown, the films are almost neatly divided between films I ranked, films I haven't seen and films that I think are overrated and make me crabby (The Artist, Get Out, Phantom Thread, Call Me by Your Name, It Follows, The Great Beauty, Toni Erdmann, Moonrise Kingdom, The Florida Project, Inside Llewyn Davis, Uncle Boonmee, It's Such a Beautiful Day, Moonlight, 12 Years a Slave, Gravity, Manchester by the Sea, The Master...)
Most of the top 100 here makes me crabby.

I've seen 80% of them, and voted for around 30, but though there are a few “foreign language” favorites, including a couple fairly unknown outside of “artsy” circles, the bias towards “English” language movies is more overwhelming than usual among cinephile lists, with repeat attention given to certain filmmakers that strikes me as out of pocket
That's a lot of ironic quotation marks.

My list was only about 20% non-English films...I just don't like contemporary foreign films as much as older ones. And one of my top-ranked foreign-lang films (Endless Poetry) only finished #303 and, furthermore, I ranked Embrace of the Serpent, A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence, Mustang, Biancanieves and (if it counts) The Salt of the Earth higher than anyone else did. So I guess I'm really out of sync with current trends. I also gave a pretty good ranking to The Lure, which only finished #755.
I think your answer about not liking contemporary “foreign films” speaks for a lot of folks who voted here, but it also leads me to wonder why?

Films in a language other than English are made in most of the countries in the world, and the number and variety of foreign language films and the cultures they represent are greater than ever before. In fact, almost every year there is a new record in the number of foreign language submissions to the Motion Picture Academy in Hollywood.

Is it that you are just not interested in other cultures that much, or different approaches and cinematic styles?.

You say that you like older “foreign language” films more, and again I wonder why?

I am sincerely curious if only because I believe your answer might explain what many others here think, as well.

Cheers

User avatar
Lammetje
Donator
Posts: 3644
Joined: Oct 04, 2013
Location: Poland
Contact:

#180

Post by Lammetje » July 7th, 2019, 12:34 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 11:49 pm
Apparently, I don't watch a lot of recent stuff.

Seen: 88/250; 354/3629
That's still a lot more than I have seen: 38/250 and 128/3983. Among those 128 are No Country for Old Men (2007) and Le renard et l'enfant (2007) though. :/ Who voted for those movies? And look at #3917!
iCM | IMDb | Last.fm | Listal

Image
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:Active topics is the devil. Please use the forums and subforums as intended and peruse all the topics nicely sorted by topic, not just the currently popular ones displayed in a jumbled mess.
More memorable quotesShow
maxwelldeux wrote:If you asked me to kill my wife and pets OR watch Minions, I'd check the runtime and inquire about sobriety requirements before providing an answer.
flaiky wrote::o :satstunned: :guns: :down: :facepalm: :yucky: :mw_confused: :pinch: :ph43r: :ermm: :sweat: :folded: tehe :cowbow: :think: :finger: :rip:
monty wrote:If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. iCM ain't for sissies.
OldAle1 wrote:stupid double post bullshit crap shit fuck
mightysparks wrote:ARGH. RARGH. RARGH. DIE.
Kowry wrote:Thanks, Art Garfunky.
Rich wrote:*runs*

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1138
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#181

Post by Lakigigar » July 7th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Movies seen: 101/250 and 280/3983
Movies I voted for: 56/250 (56% of my list of 100)
Highest movie unseen: #5 The Act of Killing
Highest favourite: #1 A Separation
Highest dislike: #15 Inception
Highest (non-favourite) movie I voted for: #2 The Grand Budapest Hotel
Highest (non-dislike) movie seen I didn't vote for: #4 Her
Position of my #1: #144 Kreuzweg
My highest vote that didn't make the list: #429 Respire (my #2)
Highest movie I voted for outside of list: #257 127 Hours
Last edited by Lakigigar on July 7th, 2019, 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1138
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#182

Post by Lakigigar » July 7th, 2019, 3:15 pm

My urgent watchlist:
#37 El Abrazo de la Serpiente
#39 Ah-ga-ssi
#67 Beoning
#80 Blade Runner 2047
#82 Mother!
#91 Kaze Tachinu
#100 Manbiku kazoku
#102 Lady Bird
#115 Scott Pilgrim vs the World
#134 Kimi no na wa.
#138 Annihilation
#147 Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
#155 Le gamin au vélo
#191 Snowpiercer
#195 Climax
#196 Jigoku de naze warui
#216 Baby Driver
#223 Forushande
#245 A Quiet Place

Top 10 unseen:
#5 The Act of Killing Possibly going to try it
#21 The Favourite Don't know but might give it a shot
#22 Mad Max: Fury Road Might need to give this a shot
#24 The Master
#25 A torinói ló
#26 Phantom Thread
#31 Roma Will probably see this for the next edition
#37 El Abrazo de la Serpiente I think this will be a movie that i will like
#39 Ah-ga-ssi was given to me as a recommendation in a challenge tournament
#44 It's Such A Beautiful Day

I don't like PTA... so i'm not going to watch his movies soon.

matthewscott8
Donator
Posts: 1526
Joined: May 13, 2015
Contact:

#183

Post by matthewscott8 » July 7th, 2019, 7:26 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 9:55 am
mightysparks wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 11:42 pm
Lol there is no horror mafia, there are about 5 of us.
Saw it mentioned a couple of times on the forum, but probably in countdowns were uber-classics like Nosferatu and Frankenstein were eligible.

I'm just disappointed that titles like Swiss Army Man, Beyond the Black Rainbow or Hardcore Henry (just to name a few, it's not about these titles specifically) didn't make the cut. So yeah, more mafias, a I wouldn't mind a better balance within different aspects of cinema, many of which are completely overlooked here.
I've not seen 2 of those, but I'm happy to be a second member of the Beyond The Black Rainbow mafia.

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6844
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#184

Post by 3eyes » July 7th, 2019, 8:12 pm

92/250 =ca 38%
(20% of top 1000, 7% of total list)
Highest unseen: Jakten (#3) - I made at least 3 attempts to get through it, but it was just too disturbing.

As for the talk about underseen movies / directors and such - well, we have other faves lists like <400 and unofficial for that, as well as some of the niche lists (African, etc.)
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

User avatar
Ebbywebby
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sep 10, 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

#185

Post by Ebbywebby » July 7th, 2019, 10:04 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 11:19 am

I think your answer about not liking contemporary “foreign films” speaks for a lot of folks who voted here, but it also leads me to wonder why?

Is it that you are just not interested in other cultures that much, or different approaches and cinematic styles?.

You say that you like older “foreign language” films more, and again I wonder why?

I am sincerely curious if only because I believe your answer might explain what many others here think, as well.
Your question about me not being interested in other cultures already should be answered, since I said I like older foreign films. I see LOTS of older foreign films. The features on my watchlist are typically about two-thirds foreign-language.

Generally speaking, I just find there's often a difference between new and old foreign films (maybe we can get past the ironic quotes and niggling over the "foreign" and "non-English" distinction, eh?) The new ones tend to be little naturalistic, inspiring tales about one or two vulnerable underdogs finding their way in the world. They seem influenced by reality TV, and the filmmaking follows -- nothing at all interesting happening with the direction. And the older ones are likely to be more cinematic, where the dominant impression is that of a virtuoso director communicating his "vision" of the world. The actors are pieces of a puzzle rather than the central focus. This is a gross generalization, of course, but a lot of my viewings go this way for me. And the contemporary filmmakers with a lot of aggressive style often go into horror, which doesn't interest me much. And I don't like anime, which wasn't as prominent in the past.

I'll look up a contemporary foreign film to see if it sounds worth watching, and the pitch is all about the story. If the story sounds engaging, the film will be. Otherwise, not. The filmmaking isn't really a factor. How many Fellini films sound good, just based on reading the premise?

Some of the high-ranking foreign films I put on my 2010s list feel to me like throwbacks to the way foreign films used to be made...films like Embrace of the Serpent, Cold War, Endless Poetry, Holy Motors, The Handmaiden and Biancanieves. But you can keep your Jagten, your Oslo, August 31st, your Incendies, your Loveless, your Intouchables, your Dardennes....

Broad strokes, yes. Many exceptions can be cited.

I did like Amour, Mustang and A Separation a lot, which are in that "little human stories" mode.

User avatar
outdoorcats
Posts: 835
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Contact:

#186

Post by outdoorcats » July 7th, 2019, 10:19 pm

Excellent work LF! Always interesting to see the trends and what sets the iCM community apart from your standard film mag/website (for example, the unusually high popularity of The Hunt, which I guess I should finally watch). I'm hoping Beale Street will move much higher in the rankings as more people see it.

Wonder if we eventually get enough participants that the ICMFF films could eventually start making noticeable dents in this list. :D

[a LION eats GOD. Gunshots ring out. MATT turns around]
MATT: That's the guy I was telling you about.

User avatar
outdoorcats
Posts: 835
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Contact:

#187

Post by outdoorcats » July 7th, 2019, 10:25 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 3:01 pm
@matthewscott8

You are right about many arthouse filmmakers (or artists in general) being unknown in their country of origin. I just wish more filmmakers who make films in a language other than English, and are culturally and artistically distinctive were more "popular" in this forum.
I think the simple explanation is that people going through the trouble of reading subtitles aren't seeking out films that are "more of the same" (mainstream). Also, generally people who watch films outside their language are almost always going to be cinephiles who are seeking out what is perceived the best in auteur cinema around the world. Almost no one watches foreign films purely for cultural enrichment.

[a LION eats GOD. Gunshots ring out. MATT turns around]
MATT: That's the guy I was telling you about.

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6844
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#188

Post by 3eyes » July 7th, 2019, 11:02 pm

But Ebby, Oslo 31. august is a remake of Le feu follet (1963).
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 6928
Joined: Jun 07, 2016
Location: Seattle-ish, WA, USA
Contact:

#189

Post by maxwelldeux » July 7th, 2019, 11:25 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Wonder if we eventually get enough participants that the ICMFF films could eventually start making noticeable dents in this list. :D
I took a look at my list, and I saw ~5 non-doc films (out of 119) that came from the ICMFF. Another 45 were docs (several of which came from the ICMFF). The other ~70 films were mostly films on a bunch of lists or ones that got a bunch of buzz (e.g., Oscars). I counted only a small handful of the rest that I discovered because of this forum (Lee's Adventure being my highest ranked of them).

What's more common for me is films that are already on my radar getting moved up my priority list because someone else watched them.

Nathan Treadway
Donator
Posts: 3848
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

#190

Post by Nathan Treadway » July 8th, 2019, 1:28 am

cinewest wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 11:19 am
Ebbywebby wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 2:44 am
cinewest wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 1:03 am


Most of the top 100 here makes me crabby.

I've seen 80% of them, and voted for around 30, but though there are a few “foreign language” favorites, including a couple fairly unknown outside of “artsy” circles, the bias towards “English” language movies is more overwhelming than usual among cinephile lists, with repeat attention given to certain filmmakers that strikes me as out of pocket
That's a lot of ironic quotation marks.

My list was only about 20% non-English films...I just don't like contemporary foreign films as much as older ones. And one of my top-ranked foreign-lang films (Endless Poetry) only finished #303 and, furthermore, I ranked Embrace of the Serpent, A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence, Mustang, Biancanieves and (if it counts) The Salt of the Earth higher than anyone else did. So I guess I'm really out of sync with current trends. I also gave a pretty good ranking to The Lure, which only finished #755.
I think your answer about not liking contemporary “foreign films” speaks for a lot of folks who voted here, but it also leads me to wonder why?

Films in a language other than English are made in most of the countries in the world, and the number and variety of foreign language films and the cultures they represent are greater than ever before. In fact, almost every year there is a new record in the number of foreign language submissions to the Motion Picture Academy in Hollywood.

Is it that you are just not interested in other cultures that much, or different approaches and cinematic styles?.

You say that you like older “foreign language” films more, and again I wonder why?

I am sincerely curious if only because I believe your answer might explain what many others here think, as well.

Cheers
I'm not entirely sure this is an accurate assessment of this community.
1. I'd be willing to bet there's almost the same number of people, who don't speak English as a first language, as do.
2. When you look at sheer volume, there's more English language films being produced than there are in other languages. So, naturally, there's going to be more English representation on these lists.

Taking myself into consideration, the only language I speak is English, so, if a film isn't available to me in that language (either by dialog or subtitles), it's unavailable to me. Others are fortunate enough to speak more than one, and everyone here at least speaks English, so, it's going to be available to more people. More people seen = more people able to vote and that's just the way it goes...

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 23334
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#191

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » July 8th, 2019, 2:09 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 1:28 am
2. When you look at sheer volume, there's more English language films being produced than there are in other languages.
Individually, yeah. Combined, I don't think so. But as you note, availability is the issue.

User avatar
Ebbywebby
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sep 10, 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

#192

Post by Ebbywebby » July 8th, 2019, 2:19 am

Well, I guess the question is: Were the other decade-based poll results demonstrably less English-focused? I haven't studied such things.

User avatar
Coryn
Posts: 703
Joined: Dec 05, 2018
Contact:

#193

Post by Coryn » July 8th, 2019, 3:06 am

albajos wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 8:47 pm
We do have a list with ratings only, so if you wonder if how those results it is supposed to updated soon.
https://themagician.000webhostapp.com/h ... tures.html

So if you're not happy with this type of calculation, just focus on the other list.
We have this discussion every time even if the rules are clear as day.
Oh wow, why have I never seen this list before?
Does this ever get updated and where?
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?

User avatar
cinewest
Posts: 1083
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
Contact:

#194

Post by cinewest » July 8th, 2019, 5:19 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 10:04 pm
cinewest wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 11:19 am

I think your answer about not liking contemporary “foreign films” speaks for a lot of folks who voted here, but it also leads me to wonder why?

Is it that you are just not interested in other cultures that much, or different approaches and cinematic styles?.

You say that you like older “foreign language” films more, and again I wonder why?

I am sincerely curious if only because I believe your answer might explain what many others here think, as well.
Your question about me not being interested in other cultures already should be answered, since I said I like older foreign films. I see LOTS of older foreign films. The features on my watchlist are typically about two-thirds foreign-language.

Generally speaking, I just find there's often a difference between new and old foreign films (maybe we can get past the ironic quotes and niggling over the "foreign" and "non-English" distinction, eh?) The new ones tend to be little naturalistic, inspiring tales about one or two vulnerable underdogs finding their way in the world. They seem influenced by reality TV, and the filmmaking follows -- nothing at all interesting happening with the direction. And the older ones are likely to be more cinematic, where the dominant impression is that of a virtuoso director communicating his "vision" of the world. The actors are pieces of a puzzle rather than the central focus. This is a gross generalization, of course, but a lot of my viewings go this way for me. And the contemporary filmmakers with a lot of aggressive style often go into horror, which doesn't interest me much. And I don't like anime, which wasn't as prominent in the past.

I'll look up a contemporary foreign film to see if it sounds worth watching, and the pitch is all about the story. If the story sounds engaging, the film will be. Otherwise, not. The filmmaking isn't really a factor. How many Fellini films sound good, just based on reading the premise?

Some of the high-ranking foreign films I put on my 2010s list feel to me like throwbacks to the way foreign films used to be made...films like Embrace of the Serpent, Cold War, Endless Poetry, Holy Motors, The Handmaiden and Biancanieves. But you can keep your Jagten, your Oslo, August 31st, your Incendies, your Loveless, your Intouchables, your Dardennes....

Broad strokes, yes. Many exceptions can be cited.

I did like Amour, Mustang and A Separation a lot, which are in that "little human stories" mode.
I appreciate the reply, but I don't find your explanations in the your second paragraph to suffice:

1) While I agree that many FL films are small, naturalistic tales (made on small budgets), some of the most popular EL independents on the board could be described in this way.

2) I disagree that the best contemporary FL films are not very cinematic. In fact, my attraction to them is precisely because I find them more interesting "as cinema" than most EL films these days, so maybe you are watching the wrong ones (I actually recommended a few good ones on the Amazon Prime discovery thread).

My own taste leans strongly towards movies that are creative and imaginative in their development of a "cinematic" narrative that makes use of the medium to tap into things (ideas, feelings,experiences, sensations) that not only seem fresh but unpredictable to me in the course of bringing something to life. Not a big fan of Jagten, myself, but I did like Oslo, August 31st, which I thought was very "cinematic." (65-70% of my list was FL, by the way).
Last edited by cinewest on July 8th, 2019, 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2974
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#195

Post by Onderhond » July 8th, 2019, 5:23 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 1:28 am
2. When you look at sheer volume, there's more English language films being produced than there are in other languages. So, naturally, there's going to be more English representation on these lists.
Is that still true? Sounds doubtful to me. China is almost at the level of Hollywood, add Japanese films and Bollywood cinema and I don't think the Brexit-hit UK is going to restore the balance. And that's just three other countries.

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 3272
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#196

Post by Fergenaprido » July 8th, 2019, 8:58 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 10:04 pm
And the older ones are likely to be more cinematic, where the dominant impression is that of a virtuoso director communicating his "vision" of the world. The actors are pieces of a puzzle rather than the central focus.
Can you explain what your definition of "cinematic" is? From how I'm understanding, it seems heavily tied to the director, which I find confusing.
Ebbywebby wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 10:04 pm
I'll look up a contemporary foreign film to see if it sounds worth watching, and the pitch is all about the story. If the story sounds engaging, the film will be. Otherwise, not. The filmmaking isn't really a factor. How many Fellini films sound good, just based on reading the premise?
Stories can sound engaging in the pitch, but then the film ends up being unengaging; I've experienced this many times.
Maybe it's different strokes for different folks, but your using Fellini as an example to uphold some universal truth is odd to me given how divisive his films are. Personally, none of his films sound good based on reading the premise; I've just watched them because many people like them and some are critically acclaimed. Some ended up keeping me engaged, while others did not.
outdoorcats wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 10:25 pm
I think the simple explanation is that people going through the trouble of reading subtitles aren't seeking out films that are "more of the same" (mainstream). Also, generally people who watch films outside their language are almost always going to be cinephiles who are seeking out what is perceived the best in auteur cinema around the world. Almost no one watches foreign films purely for cultural enrichment.
Count me as someone who watched foreign films for cultural enrichment. Especially if it's some random film on Mubi that I've never heard of before; I'm more likely to give it a go if it's from some far-off place I don't know much about and will likely never get to visit in person.
Ebbywebby wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 2:19 am
Well, I guess the question is: Were the other decade-based poll results demonstrably less English-focused? I haven't studied such things.
I'd also be interested in the answer to this question/country breakdown of our decade polls.

User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 7894
Joined: Dec 29, 2012
Contact:

#197

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 8th, 2019, 9:13 am

Onderhond wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 5:23 am
Nathan Treadway wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 1:28 am
2. When you look at sheer volume, there's more English language films being produced than there are in other languages. So, naturally, there's going to be more English representation on these lists.
Is that still true? Sounds doubtful to me. China is almost at the level of Hollywood, add Japanese films and Bollywood cinema and I don't think the Brexit-hit UK is going to restore the balance. And that's just three other countries.
Sheer volume isn’t the issue indeed. It’s about visibility and accessibility. Because cinema is (generally speaking) very Western oriented those are much higher for English movies than anything else.

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10026
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#198

Post by St. Gloede » July 8th, 2019, 9:25 am

I will join in and say that the international output these days can be seen as somewhat depressing, and while there is still, of course, a high output of greatness, it is remarkably easy to see where Ebbywebby is coming from.

We have lost the great movements challenging what cinema is. Is there anything actually happening right now? At least in the 00s we still had the Iranian New Wave, South Korean New Wave, The Argenine New Wave (which I still have to properly catch up on) and the Romanian New Wave.

We are now left with great, largely standalone auteurs we have to discover individually. (As far as I can tell)

Add insult to injury most of the traditional cinema nations have, in part due to the previously mentioned issue, fallen from grace. Even France has a lack of great master directors, the same goes for Japan - and of course Italy, Germany, etc. have only been hanging on (maybe they have even clawed themselves up a little) for decades.

This means it is a lot harder to find new films, as there is less of a natural network where discovering one filmmaker will lead you onto actors, cinematographers, collaborators, studios, etc. which opens a world of films (like many feels A24 is doing in the US).

To be fair: US cinema is not as exciting as it once was either, but they still have the publicity machine, and also keeps bringing big international names over into their ranks.

Of course, the counterweight is, as Cinewest says, more people are able to make films everywhere around the world - and the actual quantity of great/exiting /challenging cinema may in fact be higher than ever - but with a US/Euro-centric viewpoint it can be very, very difficult to get properly started.

User avatar
Teproc
Posts: 279
Joined: Sep 23, 2015
Contact:

#199

Post by Teproc » July 8th, 2019, 9:45 am

There's probably more cinema made around the world right now than there has ever been. It seems crazy to me to argue that "the international output can be somewhat depressing". Maybe the stuff that gets nominated for Oscars I guess, but there is such a variety of works being produced all around the world that any such statement simply cannot be true.

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10026
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#200

Post by St. Gloede » July 8th, 2019, 9:46 am

If you read my post to the end I make that very point. ;)

Post Reply