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Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 13th, 2019, 10:54 am
by flaiky
Before this thread fades away, could we also get the full results list please?

Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 15th, 2019, 1:53 pm
by GruesomeTwosome
flaiky wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 10:54 am
Before this thread fades away, could we also get the full results list please?
Yeah! Let me second that. I would also be interested in seeing everything.

Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 16th, 2019, 1:08 pm
by sol
GruesomeTwosome wrote:
May 15th, 2019, 1:53 pm
flaiky wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 10:54 am
Before this thread fades away, could we also get the full results list please?
Yeah! Let me second that. I would also be interested in seeing everything.
And I'll third that.

Peaceful? :shrug:

Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 19th, 2019, 8:27 pm
by PeacefulAnarchy
flaiky wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 10:54 am
Before this thread fades away, could we also get the full results list please?
GruesomeTwosome wrote:
May 15th, 2019, 1:53 pm
flaiky wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 10:54 am
Before this thread fades away, could we also get the full results list please?
Yeah! Let me second that. I would also be interested in seeing everything.
sol wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 1:08 pm
And I'll third that.

Peaceful? :shrug:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/all+ ... ulanarchy/

Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 20th, 2019, 12:17 am
by GruesomeTwosome
Great! Thanks, Peaceful!

Re: ICMForum's Favourite Films Directed by Women [RESULTS]

Posted: May 20th, 2019, 12:21 pm
by matthewscott8
russa03 wrote:
May 1st, 2019, 12:33 am
RBG wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 11:21 pm
russa03 wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 11:12 pm


"Stan Brakhage, who knew the couple, has claimed in his book Film at Wit's End that Meshes was in fact largely Hammid's creation, and that their marriage began to suffer when Deren received more credit." Wikipedia page for Meshes in the Afternoon.
this doesn't make it true
No, it doesn't but he does know more about the production than we do. I think it is relevant.

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 11:36 pm
Hamid also acknowledged Deren as the sole creator of Meshes of the Afternoon.
That's the best source so i'll go with that.



Why do people get touchy when you question a woman's role in a work? This doesn't happen when there's a discussion of where credit is due on Performance.
I think maybe if we think in terms of who is the auteur, things get a little clearer re the Deren/Hammid thing. Hammid was clearly not a surrealist (lower case s); in terms of the visionary/auteur of this film, it seems pretty clear that it's Maya Deren. Directing is not the same as authoring though, this was Deren's first film whilst Hammid was already an industry professional, Deren is also in front of the camera for a lot of the movie. Just using common sense it seems to me that Deren authored the movie, but Hammid would still be due a co-directing credit. Amusingly Hammid is only 1 of 2 collaborators on the movie that Deren married. Teiji Ito was a later husband. His score to the movie is a masterpiece, and it seems unthinkable to me to watch it apart from that. I notice with irony that small section on Hammid on the Wikipedia page for Meshes spells his name incorrectly.

In general there is clearly something going on with female director credits. It is pretty common to see women quoted as co-directors. I noticed when I worked in science that whenever work had meaningful conclusions, you would immediately see mobilisation of factions to obfuscate or uplift the results. There are many people who start off with conclusions and sort the facts out afterwards. So, given we are in the middle of a stultifying cultural war between men and women, you will get people who will lie/dissemble/misrepresent truths through their teeth to support either extreme conclusion, e.g. it's Hammid's film, it's Deren's film. Given the incentives on either side to be dishonest we will probably never have a clear picture now, although like I say, Deren was the surrealist so the conclusion that she was the author is hard to ignore.

You get editing wars on some of the internet sites too. For example I have in my personal spreadsheet noted that Les Enfants has 3 directors, Marguerite Duras, Jean Mascolo, Jean-Marc Turine. I always go by whatever IMDb says, and got that info from IMDb. I noted today that IMDb doesn't have the 2 guys listed as co-director anymore. Wikipedia on the other hand does.

I also think invoking sexism in the case of credit attribution is a fraught thing to do. I once wrote an article for a periodical, and noted that my boss had sent it off and asked to be listed as the sole author (he gave minor review comments only). So I can't call this sexism because we were both guys. However you would be well restrained as a woman to have your work stolen and not call it that. But lets be clear, a lot of people like stealing credit and they don't care who they're stealing it off. Sexism is, for example, if your boss says (or thinks), we can't have this article going out in your name because no-one would read it / take it seriously if it has a woman's name on. Or yes, your article was great, but I don't want to give you a rise because you've just got engaged and you're obviously going to leave and have kids, so you're not worth it. There is a difference between just generally being an asshole and being a sexist. The struggle for gender equality is important, but it's just a piece in the puzzle. Humans have no end of reasons for treating each other like shit, and we're just starting out on the journey sorting all this out.

In terms of collaboration, it may also be the case that women have been more honest when it comes to handing out co-credits, or more open to collaboration.