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iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 4:56 pm
by Lonewolf2003
iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies
Nominations topic
Image

A new month... a new pol. This time its Fantasy's turn in the spotlight. It is arguably the genre which requires the biggest suspension of disbelief of all genres, therefor not being for everyone. But for all the fans of the genre here, we are going to pick our favorite Fantasy movies.

It's also a genre that's hard to define and opinions on which movies belong to the genre differ (see the inclusion of Basic Instinct 2 in the Fantasy Cinema list), therefor I'm not going to disallow movies from the final result. I do ask everyone:Please only select movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s) and not movies with just some fantasy aspects. Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon..
Is this going to mean everyone will be 100% content with all entries belonging in the results list? No, therefor opinions on the genre differ too vastly. But hopefully it will keep the discontent to a minimum and lets us produce the purest Fantasy list we can.

The deadline is 28th February 2019
  • Shorts, mini-series and TV-episodes from anthology series where the episodes are unrelated, are allowed. Tv-series aren't allowed.*
    *Imdb will be leading in this, but if you have good arguments exceptions to the rule can be made in consultation
  • Imdb-lists or iCM-lists are accepted. (If you can't make one of those, ask another user to help you out.)
  • Lists can be any length.
  • Each nominee can only be named once (of course)
  • Your list may be ranked, unranked, or partially-ranked. In a partially-ranked list, the top X films are ranked and everything after that point is unranked. When not specified I will consider a list as ranked.
Some help:
Fantasy movies on IMDb ordered by your ranking
But please do not just uncritically add all movies tagged as fantasy to your list

Participants ():Show
Please check if your list is stated, ordered and linked correctly. And is set to public. For iCM lists you can also set it to "Friends" and befriend me.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 5:20 pm
by rnilsson19

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 5:35 pm
by Onderhond
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 4:56 pm
I do ask everyone:Please only select movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s) and not movies with just some fantasy aspects. Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon..
:thumbsup: I checked in on the fantasy challenge from time to time, this reminder seems very much needed.

Tough genre for me. In theory I love fantasy, but I hate it when the fantastical elements in a film feel more familiar than reality (for example, I'm probably more familiar with the skills and traits of a Western wizard than I am with the everyday life of a Palestinian housewife). You probably won't see too much Western Medieval fantasy from me, it will be a fun challenge to compile a list :)

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 6:21 pm
by Carmel1379

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 6:30 pm
by jvv

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 7:34 pm
by Traveller

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 8:51 pm
by Ivan0716
Please only select movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s) and not movies with just some fantasy aspects. Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon..
So magical realism is out then? I think if I participate in this I'll just go with IMDB tag. :unsure:

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 9:12 pm
by jeff_v
All movies are either documentary or fantasy.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 9:14 pm
by Onderhond
jeff_v wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 9:12 pm
All movies are either documentary or fantasy.
Sadly many docus are fantasy too...

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 9:57 pm
by beavis

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 10:29 pm
by Lonewolf2003
Ivan0716 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 8:51 pm
Please only select movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s) and not movies with just some fantasy aspects. Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon..
So magical realism is out then? I think if I participate in this I'll just go with IMDB tag. :unsure:
Yes, magical realism is out. Unless the magical part is so big, it can be seen as a fantasy.
Please don't just rely on the IMDb tag, then it might be better indeed not to participate.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 11:16 pm
by Ivan0716
Yeah, I don't care enough to actually take each film individually and weigh out whether or not there are enough fantasy elements for it to meet this arbitrary requirement. Just looking at the submissions already made I'm seeing films that I would consider to be sci-fi/supernatural stuff that are no more fantastic than magical realism.

Hard to believe people actually voted for this when we can't even decide on horrors or musicals

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: January 31st, 2019, 11:45 pm
by Lonewolf2003
What is arbitrary about wanting a movie belong to the genre the poll is about?

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 12:32 am
by PeacefulAnarchy
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 11:45 pm
What is arbitrary about wanting a movie belong to the genre the poll is about?
Genre is an arbitrary constraint, most films don't have a single genre. Are Marvel films Fantasy? Sci-fi? Action? Drama? They are all of those, and not just superficially either. But a strict genre purist would say it's none of them.

The header has Pan's Labyrinth so I think magical realism is fine, and it has Princess Bride so I assume we're not being to strict about fantastical elements.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 5:02 am
by monclivie
So here's my fantasy movie marathon idea:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls043746283/ (ranked)

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 6:01 am
by Onderhond
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 12:32 am
Genre is an arbitrary constraint, most films don't have a single genre.
Most films have a single primary genre though. And while there are indeed grey areas, that doesn't mean some strictness can't be applied. If I see people listing horror/comedies in a fantasy/scifi challenge for example, it's quite clear a certain line has been crossed.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 7:14 am
by maxwelldeux
Onderhond wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 6:01 am
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 12:32 am
Genre is an arbitrary constraint, most films don't have a single genre.
Most films have a single primary genre though. And while there are indeed grey areas, that doesn't mean some strictness can't be applied. If I see people listing horror/comedies in a fantasy/scifi challenge for example, it's quite clear a certain line has been crossed.
But I think there's a key difference between challenges and polls. I like the challenges to be broad (and judge accordingly) - challenges are a great place to explore fringes and the edge cases, as well as a good place to dig into the core canonical parts of the genre. But polls ask a different question - "If you were to recommend me some [xyz] films, what would they be?" Like I would be fine including Spinal Tap in documentary challenge, as that's a good example of an edge case or related subgenre, the mockumentary. But if someone asked me to recommend to them a documentary, Spinal tap wouldn't make my list.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 7:50 am
by Onderhond
I agree there are nuances there, but even then I've seen simple horror films listed there for no good reason at all (except that post-apocalypse = scifi by default for some). I guess it must sting a little that you might see a film for a challenge that doesn't turn out to be a match (missed points and all!), but imo this community is just very weird with genres and every semantic trick in the book is used to worm in films (and sure, TV stuff) that just doesn't fit the current topic.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:21 am
by Lonewolf2003
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 12:32 am
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 11:45 pm
What is arbitrary about wanting a movie belong to the genre the poll is about?
Genre is an arbitrary constraint, most films don't have a single genre. Are Marvel films Fantasy? Sci-fi? Action? Drama? They are all of those, and not just superficially either. But a strict genre purist would say it's none of them.

The header has Pan's Labyrinth so I think magical realism is fine, and it has Princess Bride so I assume we're not being to strict about fantastical elements.
I personally don't see Pan's Labyrinth as magical realism (while a movie as Uncle Boonmee I do think is). Either way if people think it belongs in the poll, whether they see it as magical realism or not, it will be. I'm not going to disallow movies. Same goes for other magical realistic movies, I don't see those belonging here, but if others do.. who am I to say they don't.

I'm not going to be strict about anything. I only ask voters to critically think about if a movie fits the genre (for them) when adding to the list. I have no problem if a movie makes the list with f.e. with 3 votes which I don't think is fantasy, but those 3 voters can defend why they think it is. I do have a problem if that movie makes the list and it turns out 2 out of 3 voters just added the movie because of the IMDb tag without thinking but in hindsight agree it ain't fantasy.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:38 am
by Teproc

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 3:31 pm
by Perception de Ambiguity

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 3:49 pm
by mathiasa
ranked: The Lathe of Heaven

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 4:00 pm
by Lonewolf2003
mathiasa wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 3:49 pm
ranked: The Lathe of Heaven
You're missing a link. Or is just list just one movie? Then make a list for that one movie.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 4:21 pm
by mathiasa
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:00 pm
mathiasa wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 3:49 pm
ranked: The Lathe of Heaven
You're missing a link. Or is just list just one movie? Then make a list for that one movie.
Ain't my day today: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fant ... /mathiasa/

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 4:50 pm
by XxXApathy420XxX
Wow imdb tags are really questionable for this. Had to remove some. I also went through my RYM tags are noticed that a lot of films are not tagged as fantasy on imdb (most notably fairy tales).

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls043784218/ Ranked

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 4:57 pm
by OldAle1
I tend to agree with a lot of what maxwell and Onderrhond say above, and I find it very, very difficult with this genre in particular to decide what I think fits. Dunno if I'm going to bother making a list or not but I do think it's going to be an interesting poll. And for myself, I find this the single most difficult genre to define, MUCH harder than science fiction, musical or documentary - I just think there are fewer accepted "rules" as to what is or isn't fantasy, and that's not just among users on this forum. It's always been hard to define, ephemeral.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 5:49 pm
by Lakigigar
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fant ... lakigigar/
top 17 ranked

Wasn't sure to make a list, but i thought whatever, and gave it a go. Not a sexy list but a super mainstream list. I used fantasy tags from moviemeter. Not a big fan of the genre (and indeed, hard to define).

Not sure about If I Stay. It's too long ago i've seen it, and i don't remember what "fantasy aspects" it had to be honest. I can remove it from the list if some want too but it's on a kinda irrelevant position anyway, so i didn't think it would matter.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 9:08 pm
by Ivan0716
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 11:45 pm
What is arbitrary about wanting a movie belong to the genre the poll is about?
It makes no sense to me, "movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s)...Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon." is so subjective that it might as well not be there, and I don't understand the part with magical realism being ineligible unless "magical part is so big, it can be seen as a fantasy." Pan's Labyrinth was a great example: it's textbook magical realism, if it's "magical" enough to qualify then where is the line drawn?

Is this a poll for films with fantasy elements or a poll for films belonging to the fantasy genre (in the strictest sense this would imply a fictional* world setting is a requirement)? From the discussion so far it seems to be the former - but only if there are enough fantasy elements? What unit do I measure that in? I know you're not going to enforce or disallow anything but it's still all very confusing for my tiny brain. I think it's better to either be strict and only allow films set in fictional worlds(which would make Pan's Labyrinth - a film that has somewhat become the epitome of "fantasy" cinema - ineligible) if you want a "pure" fantasy list; or just scrap the "is it fantasy enough" requirement altogether.

Looking at the submissions so far though, it seems like people have been ignoring it anyway, I guess I'm the only sucker who cares about rules. :facepalm:


*as in other-worldly, because yes, all fictional films have fictional settings

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 9:20 pm
by beasterne
Ranked: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... beasterne/

I will be doing a lot of moving around before the deadline.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 9:42 pm
by Onderhond
Ivan0716 wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 9:08 pm
I think it's better to either be strict and only allow films set in fictional worlds(which would make Pan's Labyrinth - a film that has somewhat become the epitome of "fantasy" cinema - ineligible)
Pan's Labyrinth does contain fictional settings and elements, unless you have doors in your house that lead to castles with strange creatures. It also has elaborate creature designs that are shown off in full glory and del Toro indulges in these elements. While the fantasy isn't at the same level as LOTR (the more logical epitome of fantasy cinema if you ask me), there's still a lot of it.

Where the line is drawn you can decide yourself, but common sense would dictate that it's rather around the 50% fantasy mark rather than the 5% fantasy mark. I think the proposed binary choice (definite/strict or free for all) is false.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 9:53 pm
by PeacefulAnarchy
Maybe you can give some examples of films some people might consider fantasy but aren't? Like, I get that you don't want someone including The Seven Year Itch, even though the whole film is an exploration of the concept of fantasy, but I don't think anyone here is bold enough to include that (until now, maybe?). How about Beauty and the Beast? Avengers? To me those are the kind of borderline cases people talk about, but if you're cool with Pan or Princess Bride then you should be cool with those too.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 9:58 pm
by Onderhond

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 10:16 pm
by Onderhond
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 9:53 pm
Maybe you can give some examples of films some people might consider fantasy but aren't?
Not meant to single out individual choices, but one eyebrow raiser was Avalon. If I wanted I could probably write a convincing statement of why it could and might qualify as fantasy, but at its core it's just (retro) sci-fi and I would never ever recommend the film to someone who was in the mood for some good old fantasy. The same goes for The Matrix btw. Someone also added Vertigo :shrug:, Videodrome, Evil Dead, pretty much all of Lynch's oeuvre is a pretty big stretch ...

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 10:38 pm
by 3eyes
Lakigigar wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 5:49 pm
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fant ... lakigigar/
top 17 ranked
PAGE NOT FOUND

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:12 pm
by PeacefulAnarchy
Onderhond wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 10:16 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 9:53 pm
Maybe you can give some examples of films some people might consider fantasy but aren't?
Not meant to single out individual choices, but one eyebrow raiser was Avalon. If I wanted I could probably write a convincing statement of why it could and might qualify as fantasy, but at its core it's just (retro) sci-fi and I would never ever recommend the film to someone who was in the mood for some good old fantasy. The same goes for The Matrix btw. Someone also added Vertigo :shrug:, Videodrome, Evil Dead, pretty much all of Lynch's oeuvre is a pretty big stretch ...
Hmm, that's interesting. I haven't seen Avalon and I can see the case for all of the others being fantasy, but except for a few Lynch films (Mulholland Dr is a twisted fantasy) I actually agree that those aren't fantasy.

There are a lot of ways you can push the boundaries of Fantasy (with sci-fi, with horror, with surrealism, with imagery, etc) and I think I'm lax on some, but strict on others. I'm still not sure if I'll submit a list.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:37 pm
by Onderhond
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 11:12 pm
Hmm, that's interesting. I haven't seen Avalon and I can see the case for all of the others being fantasy, but except for a few Lynch films (Mulholland Dr is a twisted fantasy) I actually agree that those aren't fantasy.
I'm sure I can make a case for all these films belonging in the fantasy category, but I can also make a case that an elephant is really a worm by just looking at its trunk and ignoring the rest of it. I mean, back in the days of video rental stores, if people want to see Videodrome (body horror) or Evil Dead they went straight to the horror section, not the fantasy section.
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 11:12 pm
There are a lot of ways you can push the boundaries of Fantasy (with sci-fi, with horror, with surrealism, with imagery, etc) and I think I'm lax on some, but strict on others. I'm still not sure if I'll submit a list.
You can push the boundaries right up to the point where it becomes a perfect merger of genres. If you push it any further, the primary genre of a film changes :)
I think Groundhog Day is a pretty good example of that. The premise is pure fantasy ... and then the rest of the film isn't. I totally get why some people included it, but it would be the last thing I'd like to see when I'm in the mood for fantasy (regardless of how I value the film). I think comedy and romance are the dominant genres there, with just one fantasy element to make it more unique.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:40 pm
by Lakigigar
3eyes wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 10:38 pm
Lakigigar wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 5:49 pm
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fant ... lakigigar/
top 17 ranked
PAGE NOT FOUND
fixed

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:41 pm
by mathiasa
Ivan0716 wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 9:08 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
January 31st, 2019, 11:45 pm
What is arbitrary about wanting a movie belong to the genre the poll is about?
It makes no sense to me, "movies of which Fantasy is (one of) the main genre(s)...Ask yourself if you would recommend the movie for a Fantasy movie marathon." is so subjective that it might as well not be there, and I don't understand the part with magical realism being ineligible unless "magical part is so big, it can be seen as a fantasy." Pan's Labyrinth was a great example: it's textbook magical realism, if it's "magical" enough to qualify then where is the line drawn?

Is this a poll for films with fantasy elements or a poll for films belonging to the fantasy genre (in the strictest sense this would imply a fictional* world setting is a requirement)? From the discussion so far it seems to be the former - but only if there are enough fantasy elements? What unit do I measure that in? I know you're not going to enforce or disallow anything but it's still all very confusing for my tiny brain. I think it's better to either be strict and only allow films set in fictional worlds(which would make Pan's Labyrinth - a film that has somewhat become the epitome of "fantasy" cinema - ineligible) if you want a "pure" fantasy list; or just scrap the "is it fantasy enough" requirement altogether.

Looking at the submissions so far though, it seems like people have been ignoring it anyway, I guess I'm the only sucker who cares about rules. :facepalm:


*as in other-worldly, because yes, all fictional films have fictional settings
First you’re saying the rules are so subjective that anything goes then you allege that you can estimate whether other voters followed the rules by simply looking at their lists. That‘s indeed facepalm-worthy, and also a little bit rude.

Lonewolf‘s decision to tell people they should focus on what they themselves (rather than what you, onderhond or the imdb tags) think is fantasy was the correct thing to do and I‘m
very happy about it.

I did follow the rules and I left movies out because of Lonewolf‘s phrasing.

I‘m a bit concerned about some posters here who behold themselves to be the world’s foremost genre gurus. I don‘t mind genre discussions, but I don’t see much value in simply stating that movie x does not belong in genre y, if no sufficient explanation and no outline of one‘s own definition of a genre is given.

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 1st, 2019, 11:56 pm
by mathiasa
From what I read here, I get the gutfeeling that some posters are not fully acquainted with the numerous subgenres that Fantasy has. For example: According to my and many others (including Wikipedia) comprehensible judgement, The Evil Dead franchise belongs to the sub-genre Dark Fantasy, as is quite obvious from the definition given in the wikipedia article:


„Dark fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy literary, artistic, and cinematic works that incorporate darker and frightening themes of fantasy. It also often combines fantasy with elements of horror or has a gloomy, dark (or grimdark) atmosphere, or a sense of horror and dread.“

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Fantasy Movies; Nominations

Posted: February 2nd, 2019, 12:02 am
by Onderhond
mathiasa wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 11:41 pm
but I don’t see much value in simply stating that movie x does not belong in genre y,
That's okay. Someone else asked me specifically to give some examples so I did.
mathiasa wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 11:41 pm
if no sufficient explanation and no outline of one‘s own definition of a genre is given.
Trying to define a genre is an exercise in futility that will last you several pages with no conclusive outcome. Like French grammar, there is one rule that covers 40% of all cases and there are 60% exceptions to that rule. Even so, there are many general conventions and I think the video rental store thought experiment is a pretty firm guide for that.