Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Polls: 2006 (Results), Directors (Jan 3rd), 1968 awards (Jan 21st), Documentaries (Jan 26th), 2018 (Feb 17th)
Challenges: Russia, Sci-Fi/Fantasy, Rosenbaum
World Cup: Quarter Finals schedule, QF-A (Jan 16th), QF-B (Jan 27th)
Film of the Week: Pisma myortvogo cheloveka

iCM Forum's Favourite Musicals 2018 (Results)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 2830
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Musicals 2018 (Results)

#41

Post by OldAle1 » December 17th, 2018, 3:48 pm

I like the way Carmel presents his case, though I don't necessarily agree with him; I think that there are a couple of problems here, one of which is intrinsic to just this genre.

1 - we're all going to define genre differently, and there simply is never going to be strong agreement on what does/doesn't belong outside of obvious candidates - nobody will disagree that The Searchers is a western. So if we're going to have end results that few people will quibble with, the only way to achieve that is for there to be fairly clear rules set out initially, and films that fail to meet whatever criteria are set forth will then be ruthlessly eliminated. That's really the only way to do it, and it wasn't done here nor has it been done in other genre polls as far as I can remember. Frankly it's one of the reasons I hesitated to do genre polls during the 6+ years I was running yearly polls on IMDb, just didn't want the hassle - and I was restricting people to a maximum number of films for their lists, going through lists the size that PdA usually contributes here is something I wouldn't have even considered doing. So I know it's a real hassle for the pollster.

2 - specific to this genre, one way that the problem could have been avoided - and I didn't think of this until just now so I'm not trying to be a bitch about it - is to run "musical" and "music" polls either concurrently or consecutively, and give the caveat that films could only be fit into one category or the other, or at least that the final results would reflect this. So maybe consensus would be that A Star is Born for example is "music' but it wouldn't suffer the fate of not appearing at all because everybody could vote for it in that poll - and that would also mean we could all pimp our favorite concert films and documentaries and such at the same time. I'm sure there would still be some problems but this to me seems the simplest way to make almost everybody happy, and I wish I'd thought of it a while ago so that it could have been discussed before the poll. Or maybe somebody else already mentioned this idea and I'm forgetting, too hard to search for it.

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 2795
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#42

Post by Fergenaprido » December 17th, 2018, 4:33 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:33 pm
#113 (#new) The Pirates of Penzance (1983, Wilford Leach), 158.89 points, 191 checks, 0 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
3eyes (#15)
farne (#19)
MNA (#11)
Glad to see this pop up. It's been on my watchlist since forever (I saw snippets of it back in uni or high school, and some of the songs are infectious), but only recently found a copy. Didn't get a chance to see it before the poll, though I may give it a go this month since it would now count for the forum lists challenge.

User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 17, 2013
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#43

Post by Cocoa » December 17th, 2018, 4:43 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 8:12 pm
#146 (-51, #95) Tangled (2010, Byron Howard, Nathan Greno), 122.94 points, 49077 checks, 2 official lists, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 votersShow
Gorro (#36)
Perception de Ambiguity (#73)
Tarris1 (#19)
tommy_leazaq (#18)
zzzorf (#50)
I loved Tangled, but I didn't include it in my list because I don't remember any of the songs.

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 4314
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#44

Post by albajos » December 17th, 2018, 4:52 pm

Well, for one
It's nominated as a drama, and not a musical which they have a whole own category of their own at the Golden Globes

For two
This is a very unoriginal remake of the 1976 version which also have no Musical genre on imdb.

For three
You can't make up definitions.

The definition of a musical is that the music are there just for us the audience's behalf. Nobody in the context in the movie do even need to hear the music. It doesn't matter if it progresses anything. Actually, in most musicals it doesn't.

I'm not going to argue about this anymore. I'll just remove it from imdb.

User avatar
Ivan0716
Posts: 776
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Contact:

#45

Post by Ivan0716 » December 17th, 2018, 5:07 pm

flaiky wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:37 pm
albajos wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 11:06 am
ChrisReynolds wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 11:01 am

That just means the songs are diegetic. It should still count, otherwise movies like Cabaret aren’t musicals either.
It's a movie about musicians, singing. It is Music. With your logic Spinal Tap is a musical as well.

Cabaret and the 30s Musicals are all about setting up a stage musical, so that is a wholw other subgenre
The songs aren't just incidental though - they are intentionally designed to accelerate the plot and reflect how the characters feel at that point in the film. Just like most other musicals.
Cooper added that "the music really became a character in the movie. There is no lyric that's ever in any point of the movie that doesn't have exactly to do with where one of them is or hopes to be or regrets being. That was our launching pad and then it was just about discovering what songs fit in the right places."
Not seen A Star is Born (maybe tomorrow), but by that definition wouldn't films like Cold War and even Ash is Purest White be considered musical as well.

Either way, figured this would be even more of a shit show than the horror poll with people being super anal about eligibility, glad I didn't bother making a list.

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#46

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Image

#111 (-21, #90) White Christmas (1954, Michael Curtiz), 159.6 points, 2716 checks, 0 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
flaiky (#59)
Good_Will_Harding (#4)
MNA (#93)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
St. Gloede (#17)
Tarris1 (#46)

Image

#110 (-71, #39) The Love Parade (1929, Ernst Lubitsch), 160.6 points, 638 checks, 5 official lists, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 votersShow
MNA (#60)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
RBG (#9)
sushantv10 (#35)
XxXApathy420XxX (#12)

Image

#109 (#new) Trapped in the Closet: Chapters 1-12 (2005, R. Kelly, Jim Swaffield), 161.6 points, 133 checks, 0 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#4)
rnilsson19 (#25)
zzzorf (#20)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 2830
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#47

Post by OldAle1 » December 17th, 2018, 5:22 pm

albajos wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 4:52 pm

You can't make up definitions.
And neither can you.
The definition of a musical is that the music are there just for us the audience's behalf. Nobody in the context in the movie do even need to hear the music. It doesn't matter if it progresses anything. Actually, in most musicals it doesn't.
Where'd you get that? Source? IMDb doesn't, as near as I can tell, offer any definition of any genres. Wikipedia's definition under "musical film" isn't that similar to what you wrote. I think this is YOUR definition and YOU don't as far as I know have any more legitimacy as a definer-of-genres than anyone else here. But maybe I'm wrong, if you've written a 1500-page academic treatise on the musical genre, or on the definitions of genres in film, I'd be glad to take a look at it and apologize for questioning your very obviously superior knowledge and intellect.
I'm not going to argue about this anymore. I'll just remove it from imdb.
You'll remove the "music" tag? It's not listed as musical and I don't know that it ever was.

User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 7093
Joined: Dec 29, 2012
Contact:

#48

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 17th, 2018, 5:37 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:48 pm
I like the way Carmel presents his case, though I don't necessarily agree with him; I think that there are a couple of problems here, one of which is intrinsic to just this genre.

1 - we're all going to define genre differently, and there simply is never going to be strong agreement on what does/doesn't belong outside of obvious candidates - nobody will disagree that The Searchers is a western. So if we're going to have end results that few people will quibble with, the only way to achieve that is for there to be fairly clear rules set out initially, and films that fail to meet whatever criteria are set forth will then be ruthlessly eliminated. That's really the only way to do it, and it wasn't done here nor has it been done in other genre polls as far as I can remember. Frankly it's one of the reasons I hesitated to do genre polls during the 6+ years I was running yearly polls on IMDb, just didn't want the hassle - and I was restricting people to a maximum number of films for their lists, going through lists the size that PdA usually contributes here is something I wouldn't have even considered doing. So I know it's a real hassle for the pollster.

2 - specific to this genre, one way that the problem could have been avoided - and I didn't think of this until just now so I'm not trying to be a bitch about it - is to run "musical" and "music" polls either concurrently or consecutively, and give the caveat that films could only be fit into one category or the other, or at least that the final results would reflect this. So maybe consensus would be that A Star is Born for example is "music' but it wouldn't suffer the fate of not appearing at all because everybody could vote for it in that poll - and that would also mean we could all pimp our favorite concert films and documentaries and such at the same time. I'm sure there would still be some problems but this to me seems the simplest way to make almost everybody happy, and I wish I'd thought of it a while ago so that it could have been discussed before the poll. Or maybe somebody else already mentioned this idea and I'm forgetting, too hard to search for it.
The discussion which Carmel reacted to wasn’t the usual if something fits the genre (about A Star is Born). But wether something, Bo Durnham’s Be Happy can be considered a movie at all.

User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 2830
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#49

Post by OldAle1 » December 17th, 2018, 5:46 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:37 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:48 pm
I like the way Carmel presents his case, though I don't necessarily agree with him; I think that there are a couple of problems here, one of which is intrinsic to just this genre.

1 - we're all going to define genre differently, and there simply is never going to be strong agreement on what does/doesn't belong outside of obvious candidates - nobody will disagree that The Searchers is a western. So if we're going to have end results that few people will quibble with, the only way to achieve that is for there to be fairly clear rules set out initially, and films that fail to meet whatever criteria are set forth will then be ruthlessly eliminated. That's really the only way to do it, and it wasn't done here nor has it been done in other genre polls as far as I can remember. Frankly it's one of the reasons I hesitated to do genre polls during the 6+ years I was running yearly polls on IMDb, just didn't want the hassle - and I was restricting people to a maximum number of films for their lists, going through lists the size that PdA usually contributes here is something I wouldn't have even considered doing. So I know it's a real hassle for the pollster.

2 - specific to this genre, one way that the problem could have been avoided - and I didn't think of this until just now so I'm not trying to be a bitch about it - is to run "musical" and "music" polls either concurrently or consecutively, and give the caveat that films could only be fit into one category or the other, or at least that the final results would reflect this. So maybe consensus would be that A Star is Born for example is "music' but it wouldn't suffer the fate of not appearing at all because everybody could vote for it in that poll - and that would also mean we could all pimp our favorite concert films and documentaries and such at the same time. I'm sure there would still be some problems but this to me seems the simplest way to make almost everybody happy, and I wish I'd thought of it a while ago so that it could have been discussed before the poll. Or maybe somebody else already mentioned this idea and I'm forgetting, too hard to search for it.
The discussion which Carmel reacted to wasn’t the usual if something fits the genre (about A Star is Born). But wether something, Bo Durnham’s Be Happy can be considered a movie at all.
I know. I was replying more generally to the thread as a whole, which is why I didn't quote Carmel directly. Also while I think a lot of what he says is worthwhile, it's clear that he and (especially) PdA have very, very elastic definitions of genre, film, even art in general, and a huge chunk of what they often include on their lists is stuff that nobody else would be likely to consider; I think that regardless of whether people might grudgingly agree that something like a Bo Burnham stand-up performance could qualify as a "film" or a "musical", there just aren't going to be many people who would include such a thing on their lists - unless we all get much more open to these broader definitions of genre, film, etc.

Anyway just to make it even more clear and succinct, the fact is that joachim didn't make it absolutely explicit and crystal-clear as to what would be allowed, or not - he left that up to us. So despite what some people apparently think, we're not all going to agree on what films fit the genre or not. Ever.

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 4314
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#50

Post by albajos » December 17th, 2018, 5:46 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:22 pm
Source? IMDb doesn't, as near as I can tell, offer any definition of any genres.
It does, as to every other genre. Or else it would be a madhouse controlling contributions. So stop using BIG letters. I'm not pulling this out of my ass.
Should contain several scenes of characters bursting into song aimed at the viewer (this excludes songs performed for the enjoyment of other characters that may be viewing) while the rest of the time, usually but not exclusively, portraying a narrative that alludes to another Genre. Note: not to be added for titles that are simply music related or have music performances in them; e.g., pop concerts do not apply. Also, classical opera, since it is entirely musical, does not apply and should instead be treated as Music. Objective.
https://help.imdb.com/article/contribut ... AG#musical

User avatar
zzzorf
Posts: 235
Joined: Apr 14, 2018
Location: Kempsey, NSW, Australia
Contact:

#51

Post by zzzorf » December 17th, 2018, 5:50 pm

Just pointing out that the picture for Trapped in the Closet is incorrect, it is not taken from the cgapters in question (and I may be mistaken but insread looks like a parody and not from the later chapters)

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#52

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 5:54 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:46 pm
Anyway just to make it even more clear and succinct, the fact is that joachim didn't make it absolutely explicit and crystal-clear as to what would be allowed, or not - he left that up to us. So despite what some people apparently think, we're not all going to agree on what films fit the genre or not. Ever.
I made it just as clear as with every other poll on this forum. Nothing different here. I thought it has been clear for many years that this is a movie-forum, but indeed some people have been stretching the definitions. I think we should have a poll about which things should be eligible and which not and update the rules when we start the 2019-schedule.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 2830
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#53

Post by OldAle1 » December 17th, 2018, 5:54 pm

OK, so you didn't pull it out of your ass, I apologize for assuming you did. But I still don't think we should treat IMDb as God, in fact I can't think of very many sources I trust less. And the fact that anybody can just change information willy-nilly on the site doesn't help matters - nor the fact that the info you just quoted isn't that easy to find - I've been on IMDb for 13 years and had no idea it was there, if one is not a pro user or a regular contributor of edits and new information I wouldn't expect one to know it's there.

Regardless, I don't see anybody here besides you treating this as the gospel - certainly all the genre polls I've seen or participated in contain questionable items and films that IMDb doesn't list within the genres. And they have changed their definitions of many of them over the years, e.g. film noir which used to allow non-English-language films but now doesn't - there are no noirs at all on the list that aren't from the USA or UK (and only a handful of the latter) except for one Euro coproduction that's in English (Mr. Arkadin). And I don't think their rigid definitions of noir are within the norm these days - or at the least, there is plenty of argument as to what constitutes noir. Taking IMDb as the last word isn't useful there, and it isn't when it comes to anything else as far as I'm concerned.

But that's it for me on this argument as well. I don't think you and I will get anywhere with each other, and I don't really care about it enough to continue.

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#54

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 5:57 pm

Image

#108 (#new) Wir machen Musik (1942, Helmut Käutner), 167.97 points, 15 checks, 0 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
RBG (#41)
rnilsson19 (#9)
XxXApathy420XxX (#5)

Image

#107 (#new) Ye mei gui zhi lian (1960, Tian-Lin Wang), 174.61 points, 61 checks, 3 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
Mate_cosido (#10)
OldAle1 (#16)
RBG (#54)
Smoover (#16)

Image

#106 (#new) Guys and Dolls (1955, Joseph L. Mankiewicz), 176.73 points, 4090 checks, 6 official lists, 9 votes (IMDb)
9 votersShow
Fergenaprido (#62)
flaiky (#53)
joachimt (unranked>8)
MNA (#76)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
Perception de Ambiguity (#38)
rnilsson19 (#3)
Tarris1 (unranked>56)
zzzorf (#55)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 2830
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#55

Post by OldAle1 » December 17th, 2018, 5:58 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:54 pm
I think we should have a poll about which things should be eligible and which not and update the rules when we start the 2019-schedule.
Sounds like a good idea. Of course there will be more pissing and moaning ("why isn't this 67-hour-long experimental work of a horse jumping over a stream slowed down to 1/100000th speed considered a Western Movie?") but at least most of it would be concentrated BEFORE the polling got underway. And if it wasn't pollsters could just link people to the discussion and say, well, you had your chance to speak out.

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#56

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 6:13 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:58 pm
joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:54 pm
I think we should have a poll about which things should be eligible and which not and update the rules when we start the 2019-schedule.
Sounds like a good idea. Of course there will be more pissing and moaning ("why isn't this 67-hour-long experimental work of a horse jumping over a stream slowed down to 1/100000th speed considered a Western Movie?") but at least most of it would be concentrated BEFORE the polling got underway. And if it wasn't pollsters could just link people to the discussion and say, well, you had your chance to speak out.
I don't want to have a poll about that. I don't want to discuss that horse. I want a poll about stuff like concert films, music videos, stand up shows, etc...... to see which kind of "movies" should be eligible in all our polls. Let's make a list of all kinds of things that are on IMDb and vote on those.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#57

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 7:16 pm

Image

#105 (-57, #48) Phantom of the Paradise (1974, Brian De Palma), 178.45 points, 1793 checks, 4 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
Gorro (#20)
mjf314 (#4)
sol (#47)
St. Gloede (#22)

Image

#104 (#new) The Wiz (1978, Sidney Lumet), 178.59 points, 1153 checks, 0 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
Caracortada (#28)
gromit82 (#24)
MNA (#2)
Mysterious Dude (#36)

Image

#103 (#new) Tropico (2013, Anthony Mandler), 182.54 points, 66 checks, 0 official lists, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 votersShow
Carmel1379 (#4)
Perception de Ambiguity (#2)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
flaiky
Posts: 1171
Joined: Feb 04, 2017
Location: London UK
Contact:

#58

Post by flaiky » December 17th, 2018, 7:20 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:07 pm
Not seen A Star is Born (maybe tomorrow), but by that definition wouldn't films like Cold War and even Ash is Purest White be considered musical as well.
No way. ASIB features about 10 original songs - the main characters are constantly performing - while the other two only include a couple of well established folk/pop songs. They're also much more abstractly related to the plot and characters than what I meant.

And I very much believe the songs in ASIB are performed for viewers, like the IMDB/albajos definitions requires, even if it's different from your traditional, breaking the forth wall style musical (although I'm sure Gaga does that in the final number). I like that the film follows the genre "rules" but presents them in a different, grounded way.
Let the ashes fly
ICM | Letterboxd | All-time stats

User avatar
Ivan0716
Posts: 776
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Contact:

#59

Post by Ivan0716 » December 17th, 2018, 7:45 pm

^Fair enough, maybe I'll know what you mean if/when I see the thing.

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#60

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 7:55 pm

Image

#102 (#new) Une chambre en ville (1982, Jacques Demy), 185.8 points, 320 checks, 3 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
joachimt (unranked>8)
mathiasa (#9)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
Smoover (#6)

Image

#101 (-45, #56) Funny Girl (1968, William Wyler), 186.05 points, 4265 checks, 8 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Caracortada (#30)
Gorro (#52)
Mysterious Dude (#18)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
Smoover (#7)
sushantv10 (#31)

Image

#100 (-28, #72) The Court Jester (1955, Melvin Frank, Norman Panama), 186.24 points, 1812 checks, 4 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
Lammetje (#11)
Opio (#45)
Smoover (#12)
Tarris1 (#16)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#61

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 8:15 pm

Image

#99 (-5, #94) Shall We Dance (1937, Mark Sandrich), 187.5 points, 897 checks, 0 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Caracortada (#16)
Cocoa (#9)
flaiky (#63)
jeff_v (#43)
joachimt (unranked>8)
sushantv10 (#42)

Image

#98 (#new) Mulan (1998, Tony Bancroft, Barry Cook), 187.96 points, 67960 checks, 4 official lists, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 votersShow
albajos (#18)
beasterne (#32)
Cocoa (#8)
Fergenaprido (#22)
Tarris1 (#55)

Image

#97 (#new) What's Opera, Doc? (1957, Chuck Jones), 188.23 points, 9334 checks, 6 official lists, 7 votes (IMDb)
7 votersShow
albajos (#12)
Carmel1379 (#46)
Fergenaprido (#68)
Mate_cosido (#8)
mathiasa (#82)
Perception de Ambiguity (#143)
Smoover (#23)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

weirdboy
Donator
Posts: 3074
Joined: Jan 03, 2016
Contact:

#62

Post by weirdboy » December 17th, 2018, 8:18 pm

This list must have extremely high turnover. I see a whole bunch of massive drops in rank, and (#new) showing up.

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 4314
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#63

Post by albajos » December 17th, 2018, 8:21 pm

5 years is a very very long time

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#64

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 8:33 pm

weirdboy wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 8:18 pm
This list must have extremely high turnover. I see a whole bunch of massive drops in rank, and (#new) showing up.
Don't forget those new titles might have been around the same place in 2013. Back then it was a top 104 and I have no data of the movies below that. So a movie which was already at #105 till #150 shows up as "NEW" here, although it might even have dropped a few places.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#65

Post by joachimt » December 17th, 2018, 8:55 pm

Last batch for today......

Image

#96 (#new) Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968, Ken Hughes), 190.09 points, 4246 checks, 0 official lists, 7 votes (IMDb)
7 votersShow
Caracortada (#55)
farne (#9)
flaiky (#70)
Opio (#42)
sol (#48)
sushantv10 (#45)
zzzorf (#9)

Image

#95 (-46, #49) Show Boat (1936, James Whale), 190.91 points, 1575 checks, 8 official lists, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 votersShow
flaiky (#48)
jeff_v (#10)
joachimt (unranked>8)
OldAle1 (#33)
RBG (#13)

Image

#94 (+6, #100) Haut bas fragile (1995, Jacques Rivette), 194.36 points, 115 checks, 2 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
beavis (#6)
OldAle1 (#14)
perceval (#12)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

mathiasa
Posts: 2060
Joined: Aug 18, 2013
Contact:

#66

Post by mathiasa » December 17th, 2018, 9:45 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 7:39 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 7:03 am
joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 6:59 am
#138 (#new) Make Happy (2016, Bo Burnham, Christopher Storer), 134.7 points, 291 checks, 0 official lists, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 votersShow
Carmel1379 (#3)
Perception de Ambiguity (#19)
Well, shit. That would have been my #1. :verymad:
I'm hesitating about the eligibility of this. I'm not going to debate whether it's musical or not (I haven't seen it), but I don't think standup-shows belong in a movie list. We might as well start including stageshows of musicals that had a dvd release. I'm sure there are a lot of those as well.

Before posting the results I was thinking of removing it, but I don't want to decide that by myself, so opinions are more than welcome.

Maybe we should update the eligibility rules for future polls. I always just copy-paste from previous polls, but it seems they could use some critical view, because the past year people are more and more exploring the grey areas of those rules.
Not having an opinion here. Just wanted to say that an Eddie Murphy stand up comedy routine was once an official check as it was in the IMDB top 50 documentaries list.



Generally, I'm with Carmel here. The question about Championship Finale is interesting. It doesn't have an IMDB page, so I'd say no. But what if it had one? While it might be cuckoo to vote for it, I'd say it's difficult to exclude some non-game IMDB entries as eligible. What if FIFA decides to have the next finale live cut and narrated by Werner Herzog? Well, ok, it's not going to happen. But there's sometimes a fine line between film and non-film. What to do with guys like James Benning fe? It's a recording of nature or traffic, like other entries are recordings of a stay play, musical theatre or a comedy routine.

Also, I don't think that participants are trying to bend the rules more than in the past. I remember pretty crass choices in the horror poll years ago. But there seems a shift in how some users and mods are viewing such borderline choices.

mathiasa
Posts: 2060
Joined: Aug 18, 2013
Contact:

#67

Post by mathiasa » December 17th, 2018, 9:46 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 7:39 pm





#149 (#new) Cool as Ice (1991, David Kellogg), 119.36 points, 366 checks, 0 official lists, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 votersShow
mathiasa (#2)
Perception de Ambiguity (#32)
already the best list we ever made.

Now I cross the street to schling a schlong.

User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 17, 2013
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#68

Post by Cocoa » December 17th, 2018, 9:53 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 8:15 pm
Image

#99 (-5, #94) Shall We Dance (1937, Mark Sandrich), 187.5 points, 897 checks, 0 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Caracortada (#16)
Cocoa (#9)
flaiky (#63)
jeff_v (#43)
joachimt (unranked>8)
sushantv10 (#42)

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2144
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#69

Post by Onderhond » December 17th, 2018, 10:24 pm

mathiasa wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 9:45 pm
But there's sometimes a fine line between film and non-film.
In reality there is not though, it's actually pretty black and white. The only problem is that there is a very small amount of films that can be considered dark grey, and because of that little leeway people argue any kind of grey to be apart or cinema. And who can really tell the difference between very light grey and white, right? So suddenly, if you overthink it long enough, anything is cinema.

Here is a picture of a trombone, I'm going to submit this the next time we do a musical poll.

Image

mathiasa
Posts: 2060
Joined: Aug 18, 2013
Contact:

#70

Post by mathiasa » December 17th, 2018, 10:34 pm

Onderhond wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 10:24 pm
mathiasa wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 9:45 pm
But there's sometimes a fine line between film and non-film.
In reality there is not though, it's actually pretty black and white. The only problem is that there is a very small amount of films that can be considered dark grey, and because of that little leeway people argue any kind of grey to be apart or cinema. And who can really tell the difference between very light grey and white, right? So suddenly, if you overthink it long enough, anything is cinema.

Here is a picture of a trombone, I'm going to submit this the next time we do a musical poll.

maybe if you make it an animated gif. :lol:

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 2144
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#71

Post by Onderhond » December 17th, 2018, 10:40 pm

mathiasa wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 10:34 pm
maybe if you make it an animated gif. :lol:
It doesn't need to be, if you stare at it long enough it starts to move all by itself. You can even hear the music. It's the ultimate in slow cinema.

mathiasa
Posts: 2060
Joined: Aug 18, 2013
Contact:

#72

Post by mathiasa » December 17th, 2018, 10:47 pm

Onderhond wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 10:40 pm
mathiasa wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 10:34 pm
maybe if you make it an animated gif. :lol:
It doesn't need to be, if you stare at it long enough it starts to move all by itself. You can even hear the music. It's the ultimate in slow cinema.
Sounds even better than Andy Warhol's Empire.

User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 29045
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#73

Post by mightysparks » December 18th, 2018, 1:29 am

mathiasa wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 9:45 pm
joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 7:39 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 7:03 am


Well, shit. That would have been my #1. :verymad:
I'm hesitating about the eligibility of this. I'm not going to debate whether it's musical or not (I haven't seen it), but I don't think standup-shows belong in a movie list. We might as well start including stageshows of musicals that had a dvd release. I'm sure there are a lot of those as well.

Before posting the results I was thinking of removing it, but I don't want to decide that by myself, so opinions are more than welcome.

Maybe we should update the eligibility rules for future polls. I always just copy-paste from previous polls, but it seems they could use some critical view, because the past year people are more and more exploring the grey areas of those rules.
Not having an opinion here. Just wanted to say that an Eddie Murphy stand up comedy routine was once an official check as it was in the IMDB top 50 documentaries list.



Generally, I'm with Carmel here. The question about Championship Finale is interesting. It doesn't have an IMDB page, so I'd say no. But what if it had one? While it might be cuckoo to vote for it, I'd say it's difficult to exclude some non-game IMDB entries as eligible. What if FIFA decides to have the next finale live cut and narrated by Werner Herzog? Well, ok, it's not going to happen. But there's sometimes a fine line between film and non-film. What to do with guys like James Benning fe? It's a recording of nature or traffic, like other entries are recordings of a stay play, musical theatre or a comedy routine.

Also, I don't think that participants are trying to bend the rules more than in the past. I remember pretty crass choices in the horror poll years ago. But there seems a shift in how some users and mods are viewing such borderline choices.
In my ‘screen actualities’ unit last semester we spent half of it trying to define what documentary and truth is, but basically they have examples like filming a fish swimming in a bowl, or security camera footage as raw actuality material, but that a documentary requires the conscience assembling of that material (and also therefore making it a film). So I think things like a sports game or even all those boxing matches should not really count. I think stand up shows and concerts would also be part of the ‘raw material’ unless they are specifically edited/filmed/planned to make them filmic.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | IMDb | LastFM | TSZDT

Image

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 4314
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#74

Post by albajos » December 18th, 2018, 1:39 am

Film Award shows are considered news on imdb, and Champions League would be news and sport.

Even the most fly-on-the-wall documentary of all time do have a scrrenplay. They know what they are going to do, what they want to capture. It nothing happens one day, they come back the next.

Champions League on the other hand are just a production team waiting for something to happen. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But there is only one chance.

User avatar
Opio
Posts: 75
Joined: May 19, 2018
Location: U.S.
Contact:

#75

Post by Opio » December 18th, 2018, 5:14 am

Ivan0716 wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:07 pm
Either way, figured this would be even more of a shit show than the horror poll with people being super anal about eligibility, glad I didn't bother making a list.
Looking forward to the Fantasy poll, eh....

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#76

Post by joachimt » December 18th, 2018, 5:49 am

Image

#93 (-1, #92) Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India (2001, Ashutosh Gowariker), 200.55 points, 4115 checks, 10 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Fergenaprido (#35)
Gorro (#56)
Lammetje (#6)
Smoover (#26)
sushantv10 (#73)
zzzorf (#13)

Image

#92 (#new) Alice in Wonderland (1951, Hamilton Luske, Clyde Geronimi, Wilfred Jackson), 200.79 points, 42012 checks, 2 official lists, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 votersShow
connordenney (#11)
Fergenaprido (#32)
gromit82 (#20)
zzzorf (#8)

Image

#91 (-46, #45) The Smiling Lieutenant (1931, Ernst Lubitsch), 208.97 points, 701 checks, 3 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Gorro (#26)
jeff_v (#55)
RBG (#40)
sushantv10 (#70)
XxXApathy420XxX (#3)
zuma (#13)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#77

Post by joachimt » December 18th, 2018, 6:00 am

Image

#90 (+12, #102) Nashville (1975, Robert Altman), 210.23 points, 5496 checks, 19 official lists, 7 votes (IMDb)
7 votersShow
beasterne (#10)
Good_Will_Harding (#30)
jeff_v (#21)
mathiasa (#28)
Mysterious Dude (#37)
OldAle1 (#27)
Perception de Ambiguity (#110)

Image

#89 (#new) Annie (1982, John Huston), 213.72 points, 5891 checks, 0 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
albajos (#19)
Caracortada (#20)
Cocoa (#2)
flaiky (#56)
MNA (#38)
zzzorf (#58)

Image

#88 (-9, #79) The Pirate (1948, Vincente Minnelli), 217.13 points, 727 checks, 2 official lists, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 votersShow
Cocoa (#16)
mathiasa (#6)
OldAle1 (unranked>40)
RBG (#12)
sushantv10 (#36)
Tarris1 (unranked>56)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
rnilsson19
Posts: 438
Joined: Dec 01, 2016
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#78

Post by rnilsson19 » December 18th, 2018, 10:39 am

joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Image

#109 (#new) Trapped in the Closet: Chapters 1-12 (2005, R. Kelly, Jim Swaffield), 161.6 points, 133 checks, 0 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#4)
rnilsson19 (#25)
zzzorf (#20)
This screenshot is not from chapters 1-12 but from one of the later chapters released in 2012. Just thought I'd mention it...

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#79

Post by joachimt » December 18th, 2018, 12:17 pm

rnilsson19 wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 10:39 am
joachimt wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Image

#109 (#new) Trapped in the Closet: Chapters 1-12 (2005, R. Kelly, Jim Swaffield), 161.6 points, 133 checks, 0 official lists, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 votersShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#4)
rnilsson19 (#25)
zzzorf (#20)
This screenshot is not from chapters 1-12 but from one of the later chapters released in 2012. Just thought I'd mention it...
Can you provide a correct screenshot?
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 27262
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#80

Post by joachimt » December 18th, 2018, 12:18 pm

Image

#87 (-12, #75) A Night at the Opera (1935, Sam Wood, Edmund Goulding), 219.55 points, 7049 checks, 15 official lists, 8 votes (IMDb)
8 votersShow
beasterne (#22)
mathiasa (#35)
mightysparks (#18)
MNA (#67)
Opio (#21)
Perception de Ambiguity (#70)
Tarris1 (unranked>56)
zuma (#11)

Image

#86 (#new) 8 femmes (2002, François Ozon), 223.24 points, 3032 checks, 2 official lists, 9 votes (IMDb)
9 votersShow
Caracortada (#51)
Carmel1379 (#44)
Cocoa (#28)
Daviddoes (unranked>15)
Fergenaprido (#16)
jeff_v (#49)
Perception de Ambiguity (#128)
Smoover (#35)
Teproc (#13)

Image

#85 (#new) Tommy (1975, Ken Russell), 223.55 points, 1949 checks, 1 official lists, 7 votes (IMDb)
7 votersShow
Gorro (#59)
gromit82 (#28)
MNA (#22)
Opio (#22)
Perception de Ambiguity (#18)
rnilsson19 (#22)
St. Gloede (#28)
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

Post Reply