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iCM Forum's Guide to World Cinema Project Proposal

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Fergenaprido
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Re: iCM Forum's Guide to World Cinema Project Proposal

#41

Post by Fergenaprido » December 16th, 2018, 10:16 pm

mjf314 wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 3:39 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 12:16 pm
1. Having users submit a Top 10 should be sufficient. Many polls have that limit and it seems simple yet effective. I would like to have a minimum number as well, though, to ensure that people who've only seen 1 film from a place submit that film and nothing else (maybe a minimum of 5 films, similar to the year polls we conduct).
I don't think a minimum list size is a good idea. For example, if someone has watched exactly 5 Israeli films, they shouldn't be forced to vote for all 5. They should vote for films that they like.

If you only want knowledgeable people to be allowed to vote, you can say that only people who have watched at least X films from the country are allowed to vote, but then it would be a different type of project from what you originally had in mind.
Just realized a typo in my original sentence. I meant to say "to ensure that people who've only seen 1 film from a place don't only submit that film and nothing else". I'll edit my original post too.

I don't think anyone is forced to vote; if they've only seen 5 maybe they wouldn't vote at all unless they really wanted to. Plus (at least for me this is the case), when exploring a new country one tends to start with the best there is and work down, not the other way around, so I suspect that if people have only seen a few films from a country, they saw the best ones/the ones they thought they would like the most (unless they've been participating in the world cup and came across some stinkers that way :P ).

That being said, setting a minimum # of watches isn't a bad idea. I don't think it would change the nature of the project, though, as it's still attempting to create a guide to cinema from around the world.
I would say there are two options, then:
1. You may submit 5-10 films per country, regardless of how many you've seen.
2. You may submit 1-10 films per country, but you must have seen at least 10 (or some other number) films.

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#42

Post by mjf314 » December 16th, 2018, 11:24 pm

I've seen 10 Israeli films, but there are only 3 that I want to vote for. If the minimum is 5, I'll have to vote for 2 films that I think are average, in order to be able to support the 3 that I like. Even if I'm not forced to vote, I would still want to support those 3.

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#43

Post by beavis » December 17th, 2018, 9:37 am

I haven't followed this entire discussion, but I made an overview of all the countries I've seen 10 or more movies from (using the MM-database, not looking at co-productions)
maybe it is helpful or interesting...? :)

NB some countries are listed more than once because of a name change
NB2 I might not have spelled all the names right in English...

1 - USA - 3571 - Apocalypse Now
2 - japan - 1016 - Rengoku Eroica
3 - france - 976 - La Vie Nouvelle
4 - UK - 693 - Distant Voices, Still Lives
5 - italy - 569 - La Notte
6 - the netherlands - 264 - Een Dagje naar het Strand
7 - hongkong - 230 - Faa Yeung Nin Wa
8 - spain - 210 - La Piel Que Habito
9 - germany - 172 - Drift
10 - sovjet-union - 167 - Stalker
11 - canada - 146 - the Forbidden Room
12 - west-germany - 138 - Der Amerikanische Freund
13 - south-korea - 114 - Seom
14 - india - 109 - Siddeshwari
15 - belgium - 106 - Jeanne Dielman
16 - poland - 92 - Szamanka
17 - china - 90 - Guang Ban
18 - portugal - 88 - Cavalo Dinheiro
19 - brazil - 85 - Os Fuzis
20 - russia - 83 - Kamen
21 - taiwan - 81 - Bu San
22 - mexico - 78 - Post Tenebras Lux
23 - sweden - 75 - Viskningar och Rop
24 - chechoslowakia - 65 - Marketa Lazarová
25 - australia - 61 - the Ister
26 - hungary - 60 - Sátántangó
27 - argentinia - 53 - Liverpool
28 - danmark - 49 - Gertrud
29 - turkey - 49 - Kis Uykusu
30 - iran - 48 - Bad Ma Ra Khahad Bord
31 - phillipines - 39 - Florentina Hubaldo, CTE
32 - austria - 38 - Angst
33 - swiss - 36 - Cherry Pie
34 - indonesia - 35 - Serbuan Maut
35 - greece - 33 - Attenberg
36 - thailand - 32 - Sud Sanaeha
37 - joegoslavia - 31 - Covek Nije Tica
38 - romania - 25 - Reconstituirea
39 - new sealand - 24 - The Lord of the Rings
40 - chili - 23 - Rey
41 - norway - 23 - Den Brysomme Mannen
42 - ireland - 22 - In the Name of the Father
43 - finland - 17 - Sauna
44 - chech republic - 12 - Sílení
45 - egypt - 11 - Al-Khoroug lel-Nahar
46 - israel - 11 - Foxtrot
47 - vietnam - 10 - Mùa Hè Chieu Thang Dung

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#44

Post by insomnius » December 17th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 10:16 pm
I don't think anyone is forced to vote; if they've only seen 5 maybe they wouldn't vote at all unless they really wanted to. Plus (at least for me this is the case), when exploring a new country one tends to start with the best there is and work down, not the other way around, so I suspect that if people have only seen a few films from a country, they saw the best ones/the ones they thought they would like the most (unless they've been participating in the world cup and came across some stinkers that way :P ).
=The best according to mostly western critics.

This sounds like an interesting project, but with your approach I don't really see how the results will differ much from the polls the forum has already conducted over the years for different countries/regions. I'd be much more interested in a list that tries to cover each country's cinematic history, with films selected to represent certain key movements, typical genres, films that are true household titles for people of that country, and perhaps the most well regarded directors and/or actors. Granted, this won't be easy for several smaller countries, but if we're just gonna vote for our favorites, we will end up with the usual canon. If that's the objective, fine, I guess, but otherwise maybe it would be better to conduct this through discussions and perhaps having a panel of experts for each country, as far as that's possible.

I think some of this was already suggested upthread, but just to state my opinion.

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#45

Post by Fergenaprido » December 17th, 2018, 4:30 pm

insomnius wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:15 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 10:16 pm
I don't think anyone is forced to vote; if they've only seen 5 maybe they wouldn't vote at all unless they really wanted to. Plus (at least for me this is the case), when exploring a new country one tends to start with the best there is and work down, not the other way around, so I suspect that if people have only seen a few films from a country, they saw the best ones/the ones they thought they would like the most (unless they've been participating in the world cup and came across some stinkers that way :P ).
=The best according to mostly western critics.

This sounds like an interesting project, but with your approach I don't really see how the results will differ much from the polls the forum has already conducted over the years for different countries/regions. I'd be much more interested in a list that tries to cover each country's cinematic history, with films selected to represent certain key movements, typical genres, films that are true household titles for people of that country, and perhaps the most well regarded directors and/or actors. Granted, this won't be easy for several smaller countries, but if we're just gonna vote for our favorites, we will end up with the usual canon. If that's the objective, fine, I guess, but otherwise maybe it would be better to conduct this through discussions and perhaps having a panel of experts for each country, as far as that's possible.

I think some of this was already suggested upthread, but just to state my opinion.
Or the best according to the masses if one uses imdb for recommendations. I honestly don't think that the majority of filmgoers pay attention to what film critics have to say. Before joining the forum, I think the only critics I could name were Siskel and Ebert, and I didn't know anything about what they wrote in their reviews, except "two thumbs up".

As for how it will be different, in my reasoning when we do a country poll, the top films invariably end up being the ones that are most seen, as the lists can be as long as people want, so can go from most-favourite-of-all to liked-it-well-enough. If people are limited to only ten spots, I think they will be more selective and it will be less of which films are most widely seen, and more of which films that people have seen do they really love. I could be wrong though.

Plus, given that many countries have never been polled and are often neglected, I doubt this will end up being "the usual canon" except for the biggest film countries. I'm also allergic to the opinions of "experts", so I definitely don't want to go that route for this project. :D

I think your idea of covering each country's cinematic history has merit, but it's not my goal for this project, as I think that's too complicated for such a task and would be better suited in book form (Like the Asian Film Field Guide).

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#46

Post by insomnius » December 17th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 4:30 pm
insomnius wrote:
December 17th, 2018, 3:15 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 10:16 pm
I don't think anyone is forced to vote; if they've only seen 5 maybe they wouldn't vote at all unless they really wanted to. Plus (at least for me this is the case), when exploring a new country one tends to start with the best there is and work down, not the other way around, so I suspect that if people have only seen a few films from a country, they saw the best ones/the ones they thought they would like the most (unless they've been participating in the world cup and came across some stinkers that way :P ).
=The best according to mostly western critics.

This sounds like an interesting project, but with your approach I don't really see how the results will differ much from the polls the forum has already conducted over the years for different countries/regions. I'd be much more interested in a list that tries to cover each country's cinematic history, with films selected to represent certain key movements, typical genres, films that are true household titles for people of that country, and perhaps the most well regarded directors and/or actors. Granted, this won't be easy for several smaller countries, but if we're just gonna vote for our favorites, we will end up with the usual canon. If that's the objective, fine, I guess, but otherwise maybe it would be better to conduct this through discussions and perhaps having a panel of experts for each country, as far as that's possible.

I think some of this was already suggested upthread, but just to state my opinion.
Or the best according to the masses if one uses imdb for recommendations. I honestly don't think that the majority of filmgoers pay attention to what film critics have to say. Before joining the forum, I think the only critics I could name were Siskel and Ebert, and I didn't know anything about what they wrote in their reviews, except "two thumbs up".
I was mostly referring to the canonical lists (TSPDT, 1001TSBYD etc) in large based on critics opinions, that I think is a starting point for many getting into cinema.

As for how it will be different, in my reasoning when we do a country poll, the top films invariably end up being the ones that are most seen, as the lists can be as long as people want, so can go from most-favourite-of-all to liked-it-well-enough. If people are limited to only ten spots, I think they will be more selective and it will be less of which films are most widely seen, and more of which films that people have seen do they really love. I could be wrong though.
We'll see. Just thinking of my own country, I'd say Sweden is a lot more than Bergman, but I suspect the results won't go much beyond that, which was also evident in the CFB poll. But, I could also be wrong.

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