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Polls: 2010s (Results), Animation (Jul 21st), 1974 awards (Jul 23rd), 1942 (Jul 27th)
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Film of the Week: Absences répétées, August nominations (Jul 26th)

Which subjects would you like to see polls about in 2019?

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes

Which subjects would you like to see polls about in 2019?

Poll ended at December 9th, 2018, 3:45 pm

Joyous/happy
5
2%
Disturbing
7
3%
Coming-of-age
9
4%
History/period
5
2%
Biopics
5
2%
Fantasy
11
4%
Gangster
4
2%
Prison
9
4%
Romcom
2
1%
Romance
7
3%
Spy
2
1%
Erotic
8
3%
Music
3
1%
Dance
1
0%
Mini-series
7
3%
Directed by Women
23
9%
African American Cinema
10
4%
Pre-Code films
5
2%
Underrated movies (exact criteria we can fine tune later)
13
5%
Benelux
11
4%
Eastern Europe (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine )
4
2%
Central Asia & Caucasus (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia)
4
2%
South Asia (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka)
8
3%
Horror (Repeat, previous editions held in 2012, '13, '14, '15, '16, 17, '18)
5
2%
Noirs (Repeat, previous edition held in 2015)
8
3%
Depressing (Repeat, previous edition held in 2015)
5
2%
Shorts (Repeat, previous editions held in 2013, '14, '15, '16)
13
5%
Animation (Repeat, previous editions held in 2012, '14)
15
6%
Silents (Repeat, previous edition held in 2014)
10
4%
Documentaries (Repeat, previous edition held in 2015)
14
6%
TV Series (Repeat, previous edition held in 2015)
8
3%
Italian (Repeat, previous edition held in 2015)
7
3%
Christmas (Repeat, previous edition held in 2012)
5
2%
 
Total votes: 253

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Onderhond
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Re: Which subjects would you like to see polls about in 2019?

#41

Post by Onderhond » December 19th, 2018, 6:24 am

Amusing discussion about the underrated/underseen poll. With a 6.0 IMDb average limit I'm getting a list of 196 titles, would be one of the biggest lists I ever submitted :ermm: When removing < 400 votes films I still get 116 films. So yeah, bring it on.

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#42

Post by beasterne » December 19th, 2018, 2:30 pm

beasterne wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 9:35 pm
This criteria looks about right to me. There are lots of movies that are rated under 7 that deserve recognition--setting the threshold below 6 is too severe I think. In terms of making this list "underrated, not underseen" I would add "not on 500<400" as well because the films that show up on that list are not underrated by this community.
Sure there are plenty of films under 7 that deserve recognition, but are they "underrated"? By definition of the word underrated films should mean films that...well, have a low rating. IMO keeping the threshold at (a fairly high)7 and just excluding films from a bunch of reputable lists gives us a poll of "underappreciated" films at best. I can also imagine(i.e. blindly speculate) that an overwhelming percentage of the results will be in the 6.x to 7 range, which again, aren't actually low ratings at all.

If we think 6 is too low then maybe we can try and find that magic number, but to be honest, if everyone is so uncomfortable with films at the lower end(actually more like the middle) of the IMDB rating scale, is it really a good idea to do an underrated poll? I don't want to make assumptions but I think some of the people that voted for that poll did so because they just thought it'd be another outlet for them to peddle their hidden gems, rather having an interest in films that are actually lowly rated. So far it seems like the most of the people involved in this discussion didn't actually vote for the damn thing (except Roger who proposed it I think).
I would argue that if a film is rated under 7 but we think the film should be rated 8 or higher that still means the film is underrated. Underrated to me just means that it's rated lower than it should be.

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#43

Post by Onderhond » December 19th, 2018, 2:42 pm

Wel, you could use (your score) - (IMDb average) > 3 or something.
The gap needs to be quite large though, because most people do have 10/10 ratings and an 8 average on IMDb is already considerable.

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#44

Post by Fergenaprido » December 19th, 2018, 5:05 pm

For context, imdb used to make public the site-wide average for their films when explaining their formula for weighted ratings. It was updated yearly and fluctuated between 6.9 and 7.1, though they no longer seem to make the average public anymore.

Onderhond's last post makes sense to me, but it's also difficult to enforce or explain (especially if people don't use imdb to rate their films). But it would seem strange to me to consider a film underrated if it has an average rating.

Or you can use a sliding scale, in that the more votes it has on imdb, the lower the score needs to be.
e.g. under 7.0 if under 1000 votes
under 6.5 if between 1000 and 10,000 votes
under 6.0 if between 10,001 and 25,000 votes
under 5.5 if above 25,000 votes

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#45

Post by beasterne » December 19th, 2018, 6:59 pm

Onderhond wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 2:42 pm
Wel, you could use (your score) - (IMDb average) > 3 or something.
The gap needs to be quite large though, because most people do have 10/10 ratings and an 8 average on IMDb is already considerable.
Yeah, this is basically how I'm thinking about putting together my votes for this list. If a movie is rated 7 but I have it as a 10, I would find a place for it on my list. If it's rated 4 but I think it's a 6, I probably wouldn't. The bigger the gap between the critical consensus and my personal ratings, the higher it would rank.

Fergenaprido, I'm thinking that an "average" rated film could still find a place on a list of underrated movies if I feel strongly that the film has been wrongly appraised as average when it is excellent instead.

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#46

Post by Ivan0716 » December 19th, 2018, 7:23 pm

beasterne wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 2:30 pm
I would argue that if a film is rated under 7 but we think the film should be rated 8 or higher that still means the film is underrated. Underrated to me just means that it's rated lower than it should be.
To me the different between a 7 and an 8 on IMDB is negligible, both are high ratings. I don't think a highly rated film can be considered underrated just because someone thinks it could be rated even higher, if that was the case then just about every film in existence can be considered underrated by one person or another.

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#47

Post by Onderhond » December 19th, 2018, 10:12 pm

The difference between a 7 and a 10 is considerable though. Maybe you could do a % difference rather than a fixed difference (because people's personal voting scales are probably wider than the average score scale on IMDb). A 40% difference would mean a sub 6 average for a 10 vote, or a sub 4.8 for an 8 vote.

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#48

Post by OldAle1 » December 19th, 2018, 10:28 pm

Onderhond wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 10:12 pm
The difference between a 7 and a 10 is considerable though.
This is true, but keep in mind that only a relatively tiny number of films have very high ratings. If you do an advanced search and restrict it to features with over 1000 votes, you find that out of 26539 features, just 32 are rated 9.0 or above and only 250 8.5 or above. IMdb ratings for anything that isn't extremely widely loved, or extremely widely disliked, cluster in a pretty narrow range really, say 6.5-8 or so.

The more I think about this poll the more certain I am that it's going to be kind of a clusterfuck, but I do think that if a ratings restriction of about 6.5 or lower were in place it would probably remove the majority of films that end up on DTC or 500<400 and so would provide something at least a little different. Only a few people (like you, perhaps) would actually have a large portion of their favorites with ratings under 6.5 so I think we'd end up with a list that probably didn't have too many of people's strong favorites, but might have some interesting "maybe I should take another look" kind of choices.

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#49

Post by Onderhond » December 19th, 2018, 10:54 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 10:28 pm
This is true, but keep in mind that only a relatively tiny number of films have very high ratings.
I did, hence the % proposal :)

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#50

Post by OldAle1 » December 19th, 2018, 10:58 pm

Onderhond wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 10:54 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
December 19th, 2018, 10:28 pm
This is true, but keep in mind that only a relatively tiny number of films have very high ratings.
I did, hence the % proposal :)
I saw that but only really got it on looking again. Not such a bad idea though perhaps needlessly complicated - and of course there are lots of folks who don't rate movies at all and don't really think in those terms; then again they might not be participating in the poll anyway, not sure how you would if you didn't have any ratings.

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#51

Post by Onderhond » December 19th, 2018, 11:05 pm

Yea, but ICMF loves needlessly complicated formulas, so I figured "why not" :D It's probably not something I'd pursue, I'm not big on complex, mathematical list generation. I'm all about the feels.

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#52

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 19th, 2018, 11:15 pm

Problem with the percentage rule is that it is impossible for the organizer to check and enforce.

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#53

Post by mjf314 » December 20th, 2018, 2:01 am

If we do an underrated poll, I think we should keep it simple:
Favorite films rated less than 6.5 on IMDb (or 7, if you prefer).

<6.5 would exclude most of the films from the 1001 list (only 10 of 1001 would be eligible). If those 10 films can make the top 1001, despite their low IMDb ratings, it means that this forum thinks they're underrated, so they should be on an "underrated" list.

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#54

Post by mightysparks » December 20th, 2018, 5:14 am

I like the 6.5 rating limit. When I'm looking for recs on IMDb I tend to look at stuff rated between 5.5-6.5 since that seems to be my sweet spot and anything higher than that is usually stuff that is pretty popular or well-liked, so wouldn't really be 'underrated'.
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#55

Post by Ivan0716 » December 20th, 2018, 9:13 am

Films on TSPDT with <6.5 on IMDbShow
490 India Song 1975 6.4
670 Crash 1996 6.4
782 Dog Star Man 1964 6.4
406 Chelsea Girls 1966 6.3
664 Passion 1982 6.3
983 Mothlight 1963 6.3
991 Unsere Afrikareise 1966 6.3
957 Beyond the Valley of the Dolls 1970 6.2
816 Pink Flamingos 1972 6.1
928 Trop tôt/Trop tard 1982 6.1
201 Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma 1975 6.0
219 Wavelength 1967 5.8
690 Flaming Creatures 1963 5.0
Our own 1001Show
658 India Song 1975 6.4
666 The Blair Witch Project 1999 6.4
683 Crash 1996 6.4
327 Under the Skin 2013 6.3
788 The Neon Demon 2016 6.2
831 The Forbidden Room 2015 6.1
974 Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma 1975 6.0
880 Only God Forgives 2013 5.7
489 Spring Breakers 2012 5.3
842 Cosmopolis 2012 5.0
500<400 (2017 edition - can't find the 2018 one on IMDb)Show
107 Mikreh Isha 1969 6.4
486 Sunset Song 2015 6.4
336 Sombre 1998 6.3
437 Os Faroleiros 1922 6.3
369 Smale spor av et århundre 2003 6.2
279 Murder Party 2007 6.1
244 L'étrange couleur des larmes de ton corps 2013 6.0
415 Évolution 2015 6.0


A couple of these are more polarising than they are underrated (Salo), but I don't think I would mind seeing them make the list.

Looks good enough for me.

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#56

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 20th, 2018, 3:21 pm

I switched "Underrated" and "Documentary" in the schedule. I'm confident we can agree on a criteria for the first before December 2019. So if everyone agrees, this will be the schedule for next year. Actors/Actrices is in brackets, cause someone has to come forward still to organize that, if no one will it won't be done.
For all other subjects; if anyone wants to take one, say it. I will do 2010s again. And am interested in the other two decade polls, unless Art wants to do those again. I guess the other two major polls will also be done by the same people again.

2019 Poll schedule
JanuaryDocumentaries (repeat)
FebruaryFantasy
MarchiCM Forum's 1001 Favourite Films (annual)
AprilDirected by Women
May1930s
JuneiCM Forum's Favourite Movies of the 2010s (annual)
(Actor/Actrices)
JulyAnimation (Repeat)
AugustBenelux
SeptemberiCM Forum's 500<400 (annual)
October1940s
NovemberShorts (Repeat)
DecemberUnderrated movies
Directors
TBD 2020On 0 Lists
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on December 20th, 2018, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#57

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 20th, 2018, 3:24 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 9:13 am
Films on TSPDT with <6.5 on IMDbShow
490 India Song 1975 6.4
670 Crash 1996 6.4
782 Dog Star Man 1964 6.4
406 Chelsea Girls 1966 6.3
664 Passion 1982 6.3
983 Mothlight 1963 6.3
991 Unsere Afrikareise 1966 6.3
957 Beyond the Valley of the Dolls 1970 6.2
816 Pink Flamingos 1972 6.1
928 Trop tôt/Trop tard 1982 6.1
201 Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma 1975 6.0
219 Wavelength 1967 5.8
690 Flaming Creatures 1963 5.0
Our own 1001Show
658 India Song 1975 6.4
666 The Blair Witch Project 1999 6.4
683 Crash 1996 6.4
327 Under the Skin 2013 6.3
788 The Neon Demon 2016 6.2
831 The Forbidden Room 2015 6.1
974 Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma 1975 6.0
880 Only God Forgives 2013 5.7
489 Spring Breakers 2012 5.3
842 Cosmopolis 2012 5.0
500<400 (2017 edition - can't find the 2018 one on IMDb)Show
107 Mikreh Isha 1969 6.4
486 Sunset Song 2015 6.4
336 Sombre 1998 6.3
437 Os Faroleiros 1922 6.3
369 Smale spor av et århundre 2003 6.2
279 Murder Party 2007 6.1
244 L'étrange couleur des larmes de ton corps 2013 6.0
415 Évolution 2015 6.0


A couple of these are more polarising than they are underrated (Salo), but I don't think I would mind seeing them make the list.

Looks good enough for me.
To me also

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#58

Post by Fergenaprido » December 20th, 2018, 3:56 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 3:21 pm
I switched "Underrated" and "Documentary" in the schedule. I'm confident we can agree on a criteria for the first before December 2019. So if everyone agrees, this will be the schedule for next year. Actors/Actrices is in brackets, cause someone has to come forward still to organize that, if no one will it won't be done.
For all other subjects; if anyone wants to take one, say it. I will do 2010s again. And am interested in the other two decade polls, unless Art wants to do those again. I guess the other two major polls will also be done by the same people again.

2019 Poll schedule
JanuaryDocumentaries (repeat)
FebruaryFantasy
MarchiCM Forum's 1001 Favourite Films (annual)
AprilDirected by Women
May1930s
JuneiCM Forum's Favourite Movies of the 2010s (annual)
(Actor/Actrices)
JulyAnimation (Repeat)
AugustBenelux
SeptemberiCM Forum's 500<400 (annual)
October1940s
NovemberShorts (Repeat)
DecemberUnderrated movies
Directors
January 2020On 0 Lists
I don't recommend doing On 0 Lists in January again. It's when we did it last time, and the TSPDT updates came early last year which caused a fair amount of confusion with regards to eligibility. I'd rather wait until mid-year after the TSPDT, 21C, DTC, and TSZDT lists get updated.

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#59

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 20th, 2018, 4:01 pm

Yeah. And so close after Underrated doesn't strike me as a good idea either.. I adjusted it above now to just TBD 2020, to remind us to we should do it some month in 2020.

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#60

Post by mjf314 » December 21st, 2018, 2:46 am

beasterne wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 9:24 pm
mjf314 wrote:
December 15th, 2018, 1:16 am
I guess it's too late for suggestions, but I'm wondering, would anyone be interested in a "Films you should see by the age of 14" poll? (our own version of the BFI list)
I'm definitely interested in this. I really like the concept behind the BFI list but some of the choices seem really out of left field as well as it being a few years old. We could probably put together a really interesting list based on this criteria.
If we run such a poll, what age cutoff should we pick? I've see various lists for different ages, but it seems they usually range from 10 to 14, for example:

RedTri: 80 Movies Your Kids MUST See Before They're 10
Real Simple: The 50 Films Every Child Should See Before They Turn 11
Common Sense: 50 Movies All Kids Should Watch Before They're 12
Entertainment Weekly: The 55 Essential Movies Your Child Must See (Before Turning 13)
BFI: 50 films you should see by the age of 14

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#61

Post by beasterne » December 21st, 2018, 3:38 am

mjf314 wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 2:46 am
beasterne wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 9:24 pm
mjf314 wrote:
December 15th, 2018, 1:16 am
I guess it's too late for suggestions, but I'm wondering, would anyone be interested in a "Films you should see by the age of 14" poll? (our own version of the BFI list)
I'm definitely interested in this. I really like the concept behind the BFI list but some of the choices seem really out of left field as well as it being a few years old. We could probably put together a really interesting list based on this criteria.
If we run such a poll, what age cutoff should we pick? I've see various lists for different ages, but it seems they usually range from 10 to 14, for example:

RedTri: 80 Movies Your Kids MUST See Before They're 10
Real Simple: The 50 Films Every Child Should See Before They Turn 11
Common Sense: 50 Movies All Kids Should Watch Before They're 12
Entertainment Weekly: The 55 Essential Movies Your Child Must See (Before Turning 13)
BFI: 50 films you should see by the age of 14
My gut answer to this would be to make the cutoff movies to see before age 13. Maybe it’s a film canon for pre-teens or a list of movies that will make you fall in love with movies before you “grow up”. I feel like if we go too much older than 13 then there’s really not a meaningful distinction between this list and just a general film canon list.

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#62

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 21st, 2018, 10:07 am

beasterne wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 3:38 am
mjf314 wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 2:46 am
beasterne wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 9:24 pm


I'm definitely interested in this. I really like the concept behind the BFI list but some of the choices seem really out of left field as well as it being a few years old. We could probably put together a really interesting list based on this criteria.
If we run such a poll, what age cutoff should we pick? I've see various lists for different ages, but it seems they usually range from 10 to 14, for example:

RedTri: 80 Movies Your Kids MUST See Before They're 10
Real Simple: The 50 Films Every Child Should See Before They Turn 11
Common Sense: 50 Movies All Kids Should Watch Before They're 12
Entertainment Weekly: The 55 Essential Movies Your Child Must See (Before Turning 13)
BFI: 50 films you should see by the age of 14
My gut answer to this would be to make the cutoff movies to see before age 13. Maybe it’s a film canon for pre-teens or a list of movies that will make you fall in love with movies before you “grow up”. I feel like if we go too much older than 13 then there’s really not a meaningful distinction between this list and just a general film canon list.
I would say when adolescence starts, but the exact age of that is debatable and flexible. Another good cut-off point would be when elementary/primary school ends and secondary school begins. 14 seems too old for me, especially for kids nowadays.

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#63

Post by mjf314 » December 21st, 2018, 11:01 am

I agree, 14 is too old, and makes it too much a general movie list. I was thinking 12, but I guess 11 or 13 would be ok too. I think different countries start secondary school at different ages, so which country would we follow?

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#64

Post by Fergenaprido » December 21st, 2018, 2:34 pm

13 sounds about right. It's that cutoff between kid and teen (or between tween and teen), and it roughly corresponds to when most countries switch between middle/elementary school with high/secondary school (excluding junior high). I think that bridge between 12 and 13 or between 13 and 14 are the two best options, if we need to nail down an age. If we go broader and define it "before they are teens" or "before puberty" that might give people more leeway to make up their own minds, because it seems this list is intended to be more about the maturity/intellectual level of the target audience than about any particular chronological age.

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#65

Post by joachimt » December 28th, 2018, 10:02 am

So is the schedule for 2019 ready?
Can it be included in the New Lists Index?
What is/are the poll(s) for January?
Who's going to host in January? When will it be started?
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#66

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 29th, 2018, 5:57 pm

Yes
Yes
Documentary.
Nobody volunteered yet. Jan 1st I guess.

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#67

Post by joachimt » December 29th, 2018, 6:33 pm

I can do Documentary.
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