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iCM Forum's Favourite Musicals 2018 (Nominations, Dec 15th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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iCM Forum's Favourite Musicals 2018 (Nominations, Dec 15th)

#1

Post by joachimt » November 9th, 2018, 8:46 pm

iCM Forum's Favourite Musicals

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The deadline is 15th December 2018
Countdown till deadline
  • Shorts, mini-series and TV-episodes from anthology series where the episodes are unrelated, are allowed. Tv-series aren't allowed.*
    *IMDb will be leading in this, but if you have good arguments exceptions to the rule can be made in consultation
  • IMDb lists and iCM lists are accepted. (If you can't make one of those, ask another user to help you out.)
  • Lists can be any length.
  • Each nominee can only be named once (of course)
  • Your list may be ranked, unranked, or partially-ranked. In a partially-ranked list, the top X films are ranked and everything after that point is unranked. When not specified I will consider a list as ranked.
  • I'm not going to debate whether something is musical or not. That's up to the voters to decide. But let's make clear this list is not about movies that are about music.
List length and halflife to be decided later. Last time it was a top 104 ( :wacko: ).

2013:
results thread
top 104 on iCM

Some help:

Musicals you rated on IMDb sorted descending by your rating

Official lists:
Musical (IMDb)
100 Musicals (BFI Screen Guide)
Did I miss any?

Unofficial lists:
AFI's Greatest Movie Musicals
AFI Top 180 Musical Nominations
CriterionForum Lists Project - Musicals
Les 100 chefs-d'oeuvre du film musical (100 Musical Masterpieces)
Rough Guide to Film Musicals
20th Century Fox Musicals
Paramount Musicals
Columbia Musicals
Warner Bros. Musicals
DigitalDreamDoor 100 Greatest Musicals
The Hollywood Musical
Vulture's 50 Best Foreign-Language Musicals
Pre-Code Musicals

Last edited by joachimt on December 9th, 2018, 7:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.



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#4

Post by Carmel1379 » November 10th, 2018, 12:39 am

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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
Close the world. ʇxǝu ǝɥʇ uǝdO.
t o B e c o n t i n u e d


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#6

Post by mightysparks » November 10th, 2018, 2:16 am

"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#7

Post by blocho » November 10th, 2018, 2:19 am

Are individual episodes from TV series allowed, like the Simpsons Planet of the Apes musical adaptation with Troy McClure?

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#8

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 8:16 am

blocho wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:19 am
Are individual episodes from TV series allowed, like the Simpsons Planet of the Apes musical adaptation with Troy McClure?
Episodes must be unrelated. I don't think The Simpsons qualifies for that.

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#9

Post by Tarris1 » November 10th, 2018, 10:04 am

Definitely an underrated genre imo!

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... s/tarris1/

1-56 ranked, rest unranked. Might change this later

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#10

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 10:40 am

Tarris1 wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 10:04 am
Definitely an underrated genre imo!

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... s/tarris1/

1-56 ranked, rest unranked. Might change this later
If you change, repost, don't edit.

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#11

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 2:30 pm

I didn't think it would be hard to define whether something is a musical or not, but there are movies popping up that I couldn't remember being a musical. There are movies that just have a few songs, but it's not a mayor aspect of the movie. So now I'm constantly in doubt whether to remove something completely or put it somewhere lower.

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#12

Post by jvv » November 10th, 2018, 2:49 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:30 pm
I didn't think it would be hard to define whether something is a musical or not, but there are movies popping up that I couldn't remember being a musical. There are movies that just have a few songs, but it's not a mayor aspect of the movie. So now I'm constantly in doubt whether to remove something completely or put it somewhere lower.
Yes, a good part of the movies that keep popping up when I search Imdb for musicals do have a couple of songs, but I wouldn't consider them to be musicals myself (especially Disney).

I think I'll pass on this poll, since I'm not a musical fan anyway.

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#13

Post by OldAle1 » November 10th, 2018, 2:52 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:30 pm
I didn't think it would be hard to define whether something is a musical or not, but there are movies popping up that I couldn't remember being a musical. There are movies that just have a few songs, but it's not a mayor aspect of the movie. So now I'm constantly in doubt whether to remove something completely or put it somewhere lower.
To me it's usually fairly simple - "would this film still work or be any good if you took out the musical numbers or replaced them with something else (comedy sketches for example)"? The Marx Brothers' films and Going My Way are some examples that I'd answer 'yes' to that question. I guess it's like any other genre - does it feel like the musical part is the main focus, or one of the main foci? And you have to look at history a little bit - in American films in the classic era having characters sing or dance was vastly more common than it is now and the line between musical and non-musical was more blurred. I mean, Irene Dunne sings a couple of songs in Theodora Goes Wild which I saw last night - does that make it a musical, especially given that Dunne was a singer and was in some films that are clearly musicals? I don't think so.

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#14

Post by flaiky » November 10th, 2018, 3:05 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:16 am
blocho wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:19 am
Are individual episodes from TV series allowed, like the Simpsons Planet of the Apes musical adaptation with Troy McClure?
Episodes must be unrelated. I don't think The Simpsons qualifies for that.
I think the Buffy musical episode should count. It's pretty iconic and I'm sure I've seen it in musical lists.
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#15

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 3:13 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:52 pm
joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:30 pm
I didn't think it would be hard to define whether something is a musical or not, but there are movies popping up that I couldn't remember being a musical. There are movies that just have a few songs, but it's not a mayor aspect of the movie. So now I'm constantly in doubt whether to remove something completely or put it somewhere lower.
To me it's usually fairly simple - "would this film still work or be any good if you took out the musical numbers or replaced them with something else (comedy sketches for example)"? The Marx Brothers' films and Going My Way are some examples that I'd answer 'yes' to that question. I guess it's like any other genre - does it feel like the musical part is the main focus, or one of the main foci? And you have to look at history a little bit - in American films in the classic era having characters sing or dance was vastly more common than it is now and the line between musical and non-musical was more blurred. I mean, Irene Dunne sings a couple of songs in Theodora Goes Wild which I saw last night - does that make it a musical, especially given that Dunne was a singer and was in some films that are clearly musicals? I don't think so.
I think I will try to wonder if the film would work by leaving the songs out completely instead of replacing them.

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#16

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 3:13 pm

flaiky wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:05 pm
joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:16 am
blocho wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:19 am
Are individual episodes from TV series allowed, like the Simpsons Planet of the Apes musical adaptation with Troy McClure?
Episodes must be unrelated. I don't think The Simpsons qualifies for that.
I think the Buffy musical episode should count. It's pretty iconic and I'm sure I've seen it in musical lists.
Haven't seen it so I have no opinion.

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#17

Post by OldAle1 » November 10th, 2018, 3:23 pm

flaiky wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:05 pm
joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:16 am
blocho wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 2:19 am
Are individual episodes from TV series allowed, like the Simpsons Planet of the Apes musical adaptation with Troy McClure?
Episodes must be unrelated. I don't think The Simpsons qualifies for that.
I think the Buffy musical episode should count. It's pretty iconic and I'm sure I've seen it in musical lists.
That would be in my top 10 - possibly top 5 - if allowed, but I don't know that I'd agree that it should count. Does it work as a stand-alone "film"? Hard for me to answer as I've seen the whole show so many times but I'm leaning to "no". I certainly think a major part of it's achievement is in the way it ties together so many of the themes of season 6 and the show overall together - musically - and it's probably my favorite single episode of any tv show, but it just doesn't feel like it belongs here to me, if we're not allowing other musical tv episodes.

Would love to hear from someone who had never seen the show before and decided to watch this episode though, that would be interesting and might cause me to think about it differently.

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#18

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 3:56 pm

My list. Top 8 ranked, rest unranked.
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls045606489/

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#19

Post by OldAle1 » November 10th, 2018, 4:52 pm

Might as well put up my list, I don't know that I'll see much or want to change it before the deadline. I should note that lots of these films are listed as "music" and not "musical" on IMDb - and others should keep in mind that distinction as well, IMDb is as usual not the most reliable source - in my mind, clearly some of the "music" films are definitely musicals as well, i.e. the new Star is Born.

Top 40 ranked:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls062807922/

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#20

Post by RBG » November 10th, 2018, 5:03 pm

when did this happen? ok i'll play -- with some combination of oldale's and rnilsson's list + bollywood. i need to quit obsessing about the politics :whistling:
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#21

Post by Tarris1 » November 10th, 2018, 5:13 pm

In my view, any movie where singing is an integral part of the movie experience is a musical. Obviously some movies with just a few songs are borderline cases. In this view, many Disney movies would be musicals which is why they are in my list


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#23

Post by RBG » November 10th, 2018, 5:53 pm

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls045609442/

k here's 55 ranked, i guess. might think of more later
Last edited by RBG on November 10th, 2018, 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#24

Post by flaiky » November 10th, 2018, 6:24 pm

flaiky wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:05 pm
I think the Buffy musical episode should count. It's pretty iconic and I'm sure I've seen it in musical lists.
Aha this is what I'm thinking of, it was included in Channel 4's "100 Greatest Musicals" (at #13 no less): https://www.listal.com/list/100-greatest-musicals It also has its own soundtrack album. :whistling:

FTR I'm not a Buffy superfan, I haven't even seen all of it (only bits and pieces), but I feel like the episode almost has a following of its own and it would make my list of favourite musicals. I remember taping it and watching it over and over as a young teen.
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#25

Post by OldAle1 » November 10th, 2018, 6:48 pm

RBG wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 5:03 pm
when did this happen? ok i'll play -- with some combination of oldale's and rnilsson's list + bollywood. i need to quit obsessing about the politics :whistling:
:lol: Are you finally deciding that arguing with Cipp isn't the most valuable possible use of your time?

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#26

Post by RBG » November 10th, 2018, 6:54 pm

umm...maybe tehe it's easier now his predicted red wave failed to materialize
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#27

Post by Lammetje » November 10th, 2018, 7:55 pm

My ranked list: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls045651032/

Can you please correct 'Imdb-lists or iCM-lists' to 'IMDb lists or iCM lists', J-Dog? :geek:

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#28

Post by Cocoa » November 10th, 2018, 7:58 pm

Musical episodes of tv shows (l) I can think of more favorites for those than I can think of my favorite musical films :lol: I think I can say the same for other genres as well.

Anyways, I don't know if I will participate. IMDB's Musical tag is a pain because it includes films with maybe 2 or 3 songs, which I wouldn't myself classify as a musical. But, there are films I would love to throw some points to because I still get the songs stuck in my mind at random moments.

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#29

Post by Onderhond » November 10th, 2018, 8:08 pm

It's a tough genre alright, mostly because I'm not a big fan myself. The IMDb list gives me some options, but also quite a few I wouldn't immediately consider for "musical".
I do however think it's clear that TV eps really don't belong in a list like this.

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#30

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 9:11 pm

RBG wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 5:53 pm
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls045609442/

k here's 55 ranked, i guess. might think of more later
So you might expand it and it will remain ranked completely? I ask this because you posted "55 ranked". At first I put you in my list as "RBG (unranked55)", which means everything beyond 55 is unranked, but then I clicked on your list and noticed it was in fact 55 titles.

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#31

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 9:13 pm

Lammetje wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 7:55 pm
Can you please correct 'Imdb-lists or iCM-lists' to 'IMDb lists or iCM lists', J-Dog? :geek:
Done. I never noticed, because I just copied a template from Lonewolf. :P

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#32

Post by RBG » November 10th, 2018, 9:15 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:11 pm
RBG wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 5:53 pm
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls045609442/

k here's 55 ranked, i guess. might think of more later
So you might expand it and it will remain ranked completely? I ask this because you posted "55 ranked". At first I put you in my list as "RBG (unranked55)", which means everything beyond 55 is unranked, but then I clicked on your list and noticed it was in fact 55 titles.
yes it will continue to be ranked. edit: expanded to 60 :$
Last edited by RBG on November 10th, 2018, 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#33

Post by mathiasa » November 10th, 2018, 9:34 pm

ranked: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/my+f ... /mathiasa/

DON'T FORGET TO VOTE FOR COOL AS ICE!!!
Last edited by mathiasa on November 10th, 2018, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#34

Post by joachimt » November 10th, 2018, 9:38 pm

mathiasa wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:34 pm
ranked: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/my+f ... /mathiasa/
Music videos are not musicals. Please remove those.

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#35

Post by Onderhond » November 10th, 2018, 10:00 pm

Tough one. Ironically I love most of the films on this list despite the music.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... onderhond/ (ranked)

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#36

Post by mathiasa » November 10th, 2018, 10:18 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:38 pm
mathiasa wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:34 pm
ranked: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/my+f ... /mathiasa/
Music videos are not musicals. Please remove those.
They are listed on IMDB as musicals?! Music videos and musicals are not mutually exclusive categories.

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#37

Post by Caracortada » November 11th, 2018, 6:12 am

Musicals are quite clear to define. They're plays or films with an alternation between dialogue and singing. The rare case of a completely sung movie could be included (e.g. Jesus Christ Superstar, Les Parapluies de Cherbourg), although those are technically a rock opera. Disney films and Marx Brothers films are musicals, even if you wouldn't think of them as such. Films about singers or musicians (Walk the Line, Farinelli, This Is Spinal Tap) aren't musicals, because the music is just part of the story. In a musical the songs are interruptions of the story. They are sung by the actors, although their voices can be dubbed. Films with songs as background music (Saturday Night Fever) aren't musicals. Music videos aren't musicals. It's a very popular genre, but also misrecognised in cinephile circles, where it's bon ton to make derogatory remarks about them. I have always been interested in them, liked watching them on television and learning the songs. So I'm going to work on my list.
Last edited by Caracortada on November 11th, 2018, 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#38

Post by joachimt » November 11th, 2018, 7:27 am

I agree with your explanation, Caracortada. Unfortunately, IMDb isn't consistent with this and the lists I listed in the OP also include non-musicals. If you just export your musical-ratings on IMDb and your checks from those lists, you'd end up with a lot of non-musicals. I extracted all my checks from above lists and ended up with stuff like This is Spinal Tap and Once for example, which are clearly not musicals.

So, Mathias, it doesn't matter if IMDb lists some music videos as musicals. There are not eligible for this poll.

Still there will always be borderline cases. How many songs should a movie have to be a musical? I actually jumped through several movies yesterday, because I wanted to feel how much musical it really is. René Clair's A nous la liberté and Le million for example didn't feel enough like a musical to me. Just by going through them I didn't notice more than two or three songs. Same goes for some classic Bollywoods.

I also take choreography into account. If it's just a movie and some character sings a song in between, but just basically keep doing regular stuff, mainly just walking around, it doesn't feel like a musical to me (but I don't mind others voting for it).

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#39

Post by sushantv10 » November 11th, 2018, 7:51 am

Not updated for 5yrs , will update a few before deadline

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls055915532/

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#40

Post by blocho » November 11th, 2018, 8:14 am

That is a pretty strict definition of musical. If I follow it, my preliminary list of 21 movies shrinks to 2. I guess I'll just skip this poll.

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