Welcome to the ICM Forum.
Check out our Magazine

If you notice any issues please post in the Q&A thread. Email issue should be fixed. If you encounter this issue, contact PeacefulAnarchy
Talking Images Podcast: Episode 82 released September 15th: Image Quality: Is Anything Under 4K Trash? [TALKING IMAGES]?!
iCinema Magazine: WE ARE LIVE! (We just need more content)
ICMF-FF7: Join the ICMForum Film Festival Programming Team
World Cup - Season 5: Quarter Finals Schedule, Match QFB (Sep 27th), Match QFC (Oct 8th)
Polls: Not Directed by TSPDT Top 250 Directors (Results), Netherlands (Results), 1961 (Sep 28th), Egypt (Oct 1st), 500<400 (Oct 2nd)
Challenges: Silent Era, Animation, UK & Ireland
About: Welcome All New Members, Terms of Use, Q&A
iCM Forum's Highest Rated: Submit your ratings by 1 October

Improving Screenshots

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
Post Reply
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Improving Screenshots

#1

Post by Dolwphin »

Maybe here is a good place to start: viewtopic.php?t=2409&1/?author=173546

Current Screen shots used: http://i.icmforum.com/

Some suggestions to get things started. With screens that I happened to have available..

#9: Citizen Kane:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
#5: 12 Angry Men:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
#3: Vertigo:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
#2: 2001:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
(This sequence have many better individual frames, but I don't have access to the film in HD. Perhaps somebody could provide some cooler screen shots?)

Feel free to make own suggestions about other titles. Or counter-suggestions or disagree vehemently. Etc.
Last edited by Dolwphin on October 7th, 2017, 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
sebby
Posts: 7036
Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#2

Post by sebby »

All I ask for screenshots in a poll is that they're the same size (by height; obviously AR makes it impossible for them to all be exactly the same). OCD me would be awfully appreciative.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#3

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

sebby on Oct 4 2017, 05:40:30 PM wrote:All I ask for screenshots in a poll is that they're the same size (by height; obviously AR makes it impossible for them to all be exactly the same). OCD me would be awfully appreciative.
Why by height and not width? Doing by height is a huge pain in the ass and results in either tiny 4:3 screens or gigantic 2.2:1 ones.

In general our screenshots are 640x480 for 4:3 and either 700 or 800 width for widescreen. A few movies have smaller screens because of lack of sources with higher resolution.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#4

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Dolwphin: I'd be curious to hear why you think that's a better screenshot for Kane or 12 Angry Men? I also disagree about 2001, but it's a film with a lot of visual styles and not a favourite of mine, so what I appreciate and consider representative won't be what others do. A Vertigo screenshot without Stewart is blasphemy, but there are certainly ones that are more representative of it's surreal style than the current one.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the 12 Angry Men one you picked, but it's a plainer shot than the current one.

The current Kane shot also has the snowglobe, but hints at its use of depth and shadows that I don't think yours does.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#5

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Here's most of our screenshots: http://i.icmforum.com/
Needs a bit of updating which I'll work on after the 500<400 screenshots.
User avatar
sebby
Posts: 7036
Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#6

Post by sebby »

PeacefulAnarchy on Oct 4 2017, 06:14:13 PM wrote:
sebby on Oct 4 2017, 05:40:30 PM wrote:All I ask for screenshots in a poll is that they're the same size (by height; obviously AR makes it impossible for them to all be exactly the same). OCD me would be awfully appreciative.
Why by height and not width? Doing by height is a huge pain in the ass and results in either tiny 4:3 screens or gigantic 2.2:1 ones.

In general our screenshots are 640x480 for 4:3 and either 700 or 800 width for widescreen. A few movies have smaller screens because of lack of sources with higher resolution.
Oof. I meant width. Compare the following pairs and it's easy to see why exact width looks cleaner as you scroll through results.

By height:

Image
Image

By width:

Image
Image

It's not that big a deal, really. It's just many polls seem to have screenshots that are randomly grabbed and not resized, so it looks a bit messy. Probably doesn't bother most people. To me, matching by width is like a nice, ordered sock drawer. Heavenly heavenly. (Screenshots of my sock drawer available upon request).
Last edited by sebby on October 5th, 2017, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

It bothers me too, but same height or same width both bother me. Those ratios are just too different to have a fixed equivalent dimension. 640 for 4:3, 720 for 16:9, 800 for 2.1:1 have roughly the same area so those are the three widths I aim for.
Nathan Treadway
Donator
Posts: 4497
Joined: June 26th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Springfield, MO, USA
Contact:

#8

Post by Nathan Treadway »

Can you just matte them?
Last edited by Nathan Treadway on October 5th, 2017, 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
iCM

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ (Matthew 25:37-40)
User avatar
weirdboy
Donator
Posts: 4105
Joined: January 3rd, 2016, 7:00 am
Contact:

#9

Post by weirdboy »

Fixed width is better for not breaking web browsers.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#10

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

weirdboy on Oct 4 2017, 09:51:26 PM wrote:Fixed width is better for not breaking web browsers.
This forum hasn't allowed images to break tables for at least a year, so that's not really an issue here, though people who post gigantic images still cause slow load times.

Nathan, I don't know of any way to automatically matte images, and I'm not sure what that's solving, but if it's something people want and there's a way to script it we could consider it.
User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 10238
Joined: June 7th, 2016, 6:00 am
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Contact:

#11

Post by maxwelldeux »

sebby on Oct 4 2017, 06:44:21 PM wrote:It's not that big a deal, really. It's just many polls seem to have screenshots that are randomly grabbed and not resized, so it looks a bit messy. Probably doesn't bother most people. To me, matching by width is like a nice, ordered sock drawer. Heavenly heavenly. (Screenshots of my sock drawer available upon request).
While I don't quite understand the mechanics of how would you take a screenshot of your sock drawer, I will formally put in the request for one. :whistling:
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#12

Post by Dolwphin »

PeacefulAnarchy on Oct 4 2017, 06:21:40 PM wrote:Dolwphin: I'd be curious to hear why you think that's a better screenshot for Kane or 12 Angry Men? I also disagree about 2001, but it's a film with a lot of visual styles and not a favourite of mine, so what I appreciate and consider representative won't be what others do. A Vertigo screenshot without Stewart is blasphemy, but there are certainly ones that are more representative of it's surreal style than the current one.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the 12 Angry Men one you picked, but it's a plainer shot than the current one.

The current Kane shot also has the snowglobe, but hints at its use of depth and shadows that I don't think yours does.
I really liked both the aesthetics and meaning conveyed in my choice for Citizen Kane. Good point about the use of depth not being reflected in my suggestion though. And current SS does reflect that quite good. But surely there are better individual frames for that purpose? When it comes to 12 Angry Men I prefer my suggestion because it distinctly represent the whole premise/theme of the film. Current screen shot of Vertigo is insignificant/random and is unlikely to convince anybody to see it. Mine is both intriguing and represent its surreal style like you said. 2001 is criminally represented I think and its aesthetic vision needs fairer representation!

Current screen shots of discussed titles:

2001:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Vertigo:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
12 Angry Men:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Citizen Kane:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#13

Post by Dolwphin »

Some more suggestions.

#26: The Third Man

Suggestion:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Old:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
From this film I can think of a memorable CU and abundance of other good cinematography. Feel free to counter-suggest, I don't have the film available on my computer, but irregardless current one feels insignificant.

#67: Zerkalo

Suggestion:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Old:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Same sentiment as for previous title.

#68: Sherlock Jr.

Suggestion:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Old:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
I think my choice captures its comedic quality better. There are perhaps some more dynamic moments in the film worth capturing, but irregardless current SS is very mediocre.

#78: Man With a Movie Camera

Suggestion:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Old:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
This could almost be considered an upgrade. Better resolution and "timing" which more clearly expresses the dynamic dialectics. Other frames, with superimposition for instance, in this film is equally impressive. Feel free to post other suggestions.
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 17057
Joined: December 29th, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#14

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

With the 1920s poll coming up, improvements of 20s movies ss are most welcome. Thanks for the two above
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 36083
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#15

Post by joachimt »

I updated the screens for The Third Man and Man With a Movie Camera in the masterlist of screens. I think these are clearly improvements. Most of the others are a matter of opinion.

There are probably lots of screens that really need updating, because the quality is bad and upgrades are available. During the countdown of polls, just pay attention everyone and offer better screens when something really needs an upgrade.

I don't feel like discussing which shot resembled a movie the best.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#16

Post by Dolwphin »

Lonewolf2003 on Oct 7 2017, 09:03:18 AM wrote:With the 1920s poll coming up, improvements of 20s movies ss are most welcome. Thanks for the two above
Coeur fidèle:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
La Roue:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Le retour à la raison:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Finis terrae:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
H2O:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
I'll post a short list for that poll tomorrow.
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#17

Post by Dolwphin »

joachimt on Oct 7 2017, 01:18:26 PM wrote:I updated the screens for The Third Man and Man With a Movie Camera in the masterlist of screens. I think these are clearly improvements. Most of the others are a matter of opinion.

There are probably lots of screens that really need updating, because the quality is bad and upgrades are available. During the countdown of polls, just pay attention everyone and offer better screens when something really needs an upgrade.

I don't feel like discussing which shot resembled a movie the best.
Cool! From my perspective almost all screen shots needs replacement. But that is obviously not going to happen over night. But would be nice if Top 100/250 looked better. With that said taste is subjective etc.
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 36083
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#18

Post by joachimt »

Please post comparisons with the current screens, please. Otherwise I need to find the current shots in a separate file before being able to decide if they need replacements.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#19

Post by Dolwphin »

joachimt on Oct 8 2017, 03:41:36 AM wrote:Please post comparisons with the current screens, please. Otherwise I need to find the current shots in a separate file before being able to decide if they need replacements.
I have for previous ones.

Here are 1920s ones from previous post.

Coeur fidèle:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
(This is actually not bad, but more impressive DP exist in this film)
La Roue:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Le retour à la raison:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Finis terrae:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
H2O:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Image
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 36083
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#20

Post by joachimt »

I really don't see why your proposal for Le retour à la raison is any better than the current one. I don't want to sound ungrateful, because I am grateful for your effort, but please only post improvements for screenshots where it's absolutely clear that there should be something better available. If so, I'd be happy to change links in the master-list, but the way it's going now, I'm not going to bother at all.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 36083
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#21

Post by joachimt »

......or someone else should take over hosting the screenshots-list.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4987
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#22

Post by Dolwphin »

joachimt on Oct 8 2017, 09:19:45 AM wrote:I really don't see why your proposal for Le retour à la raison is any better than the current one. I don't want to sound ungrateful, because I am grateful for your effort, but please only post improvements for screenshots where it's absolutely clear that there should be something better available. If so, I'd be happy to change links in the master-list, but the way it's going now, I'm not going to bother at all.
I think all are clearly improvements! With that said I'm not claiming that all my suggestions are perfect. That is why I suggested people feel free to post counter-suggestions. But currently many SS is not in ideal resolution and/or unappealing from an aesthetic point of view. Vertigo, for instance, is quite clear improvement in both senses.

It would be interesting to hear some other opinions of my suggestions; especially about Top 100 titles which I'm focusing on. I'll limit myself to Top 100 for the foreseeable future; don't worry about being flooded with suggestions.
Top 100 | Top 250

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

Image
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#23

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

I'm working on upgrading some of the screenshots, I'll ask for more feedback suggestions in a while but for now:
Which is better:
Spoiler
Image
Image
mjf314
Moderator
Posts: 12572
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#24

Post by mjf314 »

I don't know which film it is, but I prefer the first screenshot.
User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 32721
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#25

Post by mightysparks »

I prefer the second.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | Letterboxd | Linktree | TSZDT

Image
User avatar
funkybusiness
Donator
Posts: 10902
Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#26

Post by funkybusiness »

#2 is a better composition but far more suggestive, it makes the film seem rather dour, so if it's a romantic comedy or something, than #1.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#27

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

I agree the second shot has interesting composition. It's a better image, but I feel like the first gives me a better sense of the film. I also think people sometimes undervalue composition in a shot like the first one. I haven't seen the film, though, so I don't actually know just my impression based on scrolling through it look for something to screenshot.

It's not really important, I don't know that the film will show up in any of our lists, besides DtC, any time soon, I just realized I took two shots and was curious.

Edit: It's Furitvos: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073028/
User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 32721
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#28

Post by mightysparks »

funkybusiness wrote: February 7th, 2019, 2:08 am #2 is a better composition but far more suggestive, it makes the film seem rather dour, so if it's a romantic comedy or something, than #1.
Yea this is basically what I thought and couldn’t put into words. It really depends on the type of film, but I responded to the image I was more drawn to.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | Letterboxd | Linktree | TSZDT

Image
User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 17057
Joined: December 29th, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#29

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: February 7th, 2019, 2:24 am I agree the second shot has interesting composition. It's a better image, but I feel like the first gives me a better sense of the film. I also think people sometimes undervalue composition in a shot like the first one. I haven't seen the film, though, so I don't actually know just my impression based on scrolling through it look for something to screenshot.

It's not really important, I don't know that the film will show up in any of our lists, besides DtC, any time soon, I just realized I took two shots and was curious.

Edit: It's Furitvos: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073028/
This. From these screenshots I get the impression those two are the main characters of the movie. And therefor the first I guess gives a better impression about the movie.
User avatar
Mate_cosido
Posts: 716
Joined: April 28th, 2016, 6:00 am
Contact:

#30

Post by Mate_cosido »

Second is better and gives a better sense of the film (i did watch it, although 2 years ago)
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#31

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Our screenshot repository stands at around 6400 films. I've upgraded a bunch and added some more. It includes everything in our last Top 2000, the 1000<400, plus most polls from the last couple of years. I decided to look up the films on most lists we don't have screenshots for. There are (were, as I'm adding some of them) 780 films on 3 or more official lists we didn't have screenshots for, 115 in 6 or more official lists.
These are the top ones:
The Birth of a Nation - 21 Official Lists
The Quiet Man - 15 Official Lists
Sholay - 13 Official Lists
Saturday Night Fever - 13 Official Lists
The Chronicle History of King Henry the Fifth with His Battell Fought at Agincourt in France - 12 Official Lists
W.R. - Misterije organizma - 12 Official Lists
Chariots of Fire - 12 Official Lists
L'arrivée d'un train à La Ciotat - 11 Official Lists
Tom Jones - 11 Official Lists
Pretty Woman - 11 Official Lists
Sense and Sensibility - 11 Official Lists
Shakespeare in Love - 11 Official Lists
Cabiria - 10 Official Lists
Superman - 10 Official Lists
The Last Seduction - 10 Official Lists
Spoiler
La sortie de l'usine Lumière à Lyon - 9 Official Lists
Little Caesar - 9 Official Lists
French Cancan - 9 Official Lists
Mother India - 9 Official Lists
One-Eyed Jacks - 9 Official Lists
The Nutty Professor - 9 Official Lists
Pink Flamingos - 9 Official Lists
Out of Africa - 9 Official Lists
A Room with a View - 9 Official Lists
Broadcast News - 9 Official Lists
Ghost - 9 Official Lists
There's Something About Mary - 9 Official Lists
Avengers: Infinity War - 9 Official Lists
It's a Gift - 8 Official Lists
The Bank Dick - 8 Official Lists
Flaming Creatures - 8 Official Lists
One Hundred and One Dalmatians - 8 Official Lists
This Sporting Life - 8 Official Lists
Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! - 8 Official Lists
Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song - 8 Official Lists
Roma - 8 Official Lists
Top Gun - 8 Official Lists
Cyrano de Bergerac - 8 Official Lists
Howards End - 8 Official Lists
Independence Day - 8 Official Lists
Spider-Man - 8 Official Lists
The Bourne Supremacy - 8 Official Lists
Histoire(s) du cinéma - 8 Official Lists
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 7 Official Lists
Horse Feathers - 7 Official Lists
She Done Him Wrong - 7 Official Lists
Sergeant York - 7 Official Lists
Woman of the Year - 7 Official Lists
Duel in the Sun - 7 Official Lists
The Barefoot Contessa - 7 Official Lists
Becket - 7 Official Lists
Darling - 7 Official Lists
Love Story - 7 Official Lists
The Go-Between - 7 Official Lists
Shaft - 7 Official Lists
Beverly Hills Cop - 7 Official Lists
Hope and Glory - 7 Official Lists
Dangerous Liaisons - 7 Official Lists
Salaam Bombay! - 7 Official Lists
Working Girl - 7 Official Lists
Field of Dreams - 7 Official Lists
Batman Returns - 7 Official Lists
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge - 7 Official Lists
Jerry Maguire - 7 Official Lists
Chicken Run - 7 Official Lists
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 36083
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#32

Post by joachimt »

As long as these movies don't end up in poll results, I see no reason to spend time adding them.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27220
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#33

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

joachimt wrote: February 23rd, 2019, 8:13 am As long as these movies don't end up in poll results, I see no reason to spend time adding them.
The ones I added were for other reasons (they were on runner up lists, or I expect them in an upcoming list) I'm certainly not adding all, or even most, of them. I just thought it was interesting to see what highly regarded movies don't interest us much.
Post Reply