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New Official List Discussion

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ChrisReynolds
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#5361

Post by ChrisReynolds »

dirty_score wrote: March 17th, 2021, 4:07 pm
Before your next movie night, get a nerd girl's perspective. In A Nerd Girl's Guide to Cinema, lifelong movie geek Kelly Cozy offers her insights on 200 cult classics, overlooked gems, and interesting failures — from All That Jazz to Zabriskie Point, and from the sublime to the ridiculous (and everywhere in between). You'll want to keep this guide handy when you load up your DVD queue or streaming list.
Kelly Cozy's A Nerd Girl's Guide to Cinema
The presence of the now unofficial Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog on that list made me wonder if the Hugo Awards for Dramatic Presentation (Long and Short Form) might be a good choice for an official list? It's the most highly-regarded award in the SF community, and includes a lot of TV episodes that might be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/hugo ... ninjalore/
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#5362

Post by mjf314 »

ChrisReynolds wrote: March 24th, 2021, 10:19 am
dirty_score wrote: March 17th, 2021, 4:07 pm
Before your next movie night, get a nerd girl's perspective. In A Nerd Girl's Guide to Cinema, lifelong movie geek Kelly Cozy offers her insights on 200 cult classics, overlooked gems, and interesting failures — from All That Jazz to Zabriskie Point, and from the sublime to the ridiculous (and everywhere in between). You'll want to keep this guide handy when you load up your DVD queue or streaming list.
Kelly Cozy's A Nerd Girl's Guide to Cinema
The presence of the now unofficial Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog on that list made me wonder if the Hugo Awards for Dramatic Presentation (Long and Short Form) might be a good choice for an official list? It's the most highly-regarded award in the SF community, and includes a lot of TV episodes that might be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/hugo ... ninjalore/
I don't want to adopt a list that will make people watch episodes that they can't understand, just because they're on a list.
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#5363

Post by Knaldskalle »

So the Best Sequels list will be made unofficial, then?
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#5364

Post by mjf314 »

Knaldskalle wrote: March 24th, 2021, 6:34 pm So the Best Sequels list will be made unofficial, then?
I think that list is a slightly smaller problem, because some iCM users are willing to watch a single movie before a sequel, but not an entire TV series.

But if the sequel list wasn't already official, I wouldn't have been in favor of adopting it.
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#5365

Post by Torgo »

mjf314 wrote: March 24th, 2021, 7:51 pm willing to watch a single movie before a sequel, but not an entire TV series.
Absolutely this, obviously.

The concept of the sequel list is awesome, don't remove it. :hmph: Choices could be better, could be worse, it's nothing that bothers me.
I'd even go as far and look for a list of great / better than the original remakes. There are plenty scattered through film history, not only in Hollywood mainstream.
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#5366

Post by dirty_score »

I would glady ditch The Time's 100 Best French Films with "French Cinema is Crap" or "Le cinéma français, c'est de la merde" three books that put light on some hidden gems of french cinema.

Actually, there is a fourth book that came out last year, I asked the list creator to update it.
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#5367

Post by OldAle1 »

dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:49 pm I would glady ditch The Time's 100 Best French Films with "French Cinema is Crap" or "Le cinéma français, c'est de la merde" three books that put light on some hidden gems of french cinema.

Actually, there is a fourth book that came out last year, I asked the list creator to update it.
That's a pretty cool list - I haven't seen much from it, but a great many of the unseen are on my watchlist. A reasonable mixture of arthouse, mainstream comedy & drama, and genre stuff. But I have to question any list, at least any made quite recently like this one, that has the balls to call films like The Passion of Joan of Arc, La jetée, Diabolique, The Wages of Fear and Week End "hidden gems".
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#5368

Post by hurluberlu »

OldAle1 wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:57 pm
dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:49 pm I would glady ditch The Time's 100 Best French Films with "French Cinema is Crap" or "Le cinéma français, c'est de la merde" three books that put light on some hidden gems of french cinema.

Actually, there is a fourth book that came out last year, I asked the list creator to update it.
That's a pretty cool list - I haven't seen much from it, but a great many of the unseen are on my watchlist. A reasonable mixture of arthouse, mainstream comedy & drama, and genre stuff. But I have to question any list, at least any made quite recently like this one, that has the balls to call films like The Passion of Joan of Arc, La jetée, Diabolique, The Wages of Fear and Week End "hidden gems".
Yeah exactly, it looks more like a potpourri than a collection of hidden gems for cinephiles. But the selection seems to be meaningful either for capturing French Cinema evolution through the years or French society itself so why not. I have seen 81/223.
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#5369

Post by Torgo »

I'm anything but a connoisseur of French cinema, but while I have 64 and 53 checks on our both French Top 100s, I only have 24/223 on the merde list. :ermm: About 66% of this list of crêpe looks to be unofficial so far.
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#5370

Post by Onderhond »

Torgo wrote: March 29th, 2021, 8:16 pm I'm anything but a connoisseur of French cinema, but while I have 64 and 53 checks on our both French Top 100s, I only have 24/223 on the merde list. :ermm: About 66% of this list of crêpe looks to be unofficial so far.
That seems to suggest an insider view, rather than "the French films that got through to America". Should be applauded!
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#5371

Post by Teproc »

I don't see any need to replace the Times' lst, but this does seem to be a pretty cool list. Would make a film I'm the only check on official, so actually scratch that, it's a great list :lol:
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#5372

Post by beavis »

From my 75 checks on it I see that this is mostly a "cult" list of French cinema, and this is not a bad thing, as there has always been some great cult/genre cinema made in France! I do have been looking for a better (mostly just longer actually) list for French cinema and this one would only fill a part of that need. Also a series of books as source, and with a title like this, doesn't feel like a carefully crafted top-list to me. Experimental and independent cinema from France also deserves representation for instance (Grandrieux, Biette, Vecchiali, Bozon, Ropert, Civeyrac, Hernandez, Hurtado, Klonaris and many other names).

these two obscure titles on the list are very cool: Quelque part quelqu'un and Tristan et Iseult
if these two would also be present, I might be persuaded to also lobby for this list: Litan and Les jeux de la Comtesse Dolingen de Gratz :)
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#5373

Post by dirty_score »

Ok, so somebody on Sens Critique gathered all the films in the books including the fourth one and made the list: https://www.senscritique.com/liste/Le_c ... ate_ajout/

If my french haven't failed me I think I put it ordered by recently added so you can see the latest additions
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#5374

Post by kongs_speech »

dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 9:15 pm Ok, so somebody on Sens Critique gathered all the films in the books including the fourth one and made the list: https://www.senscritique.com/liste/Le_c ... ate_ajout/

If my french haven't failed me I think I put it ordered by recently added so you can see the latest additions
It seems like you're trying to replace every list. I'm just curious as to why. I like the Times list. I think people like it in general, so what's the problem?
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#5375

Post by dirty_score »

kongs_speech wrote: March 29th, 2021, 9:30 pm
dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 9:15 pm Ok, so somebody on Sens Critique gathered all the films in the books including the fourth one and made the list: https://www.senscritique.com/liste/Le_c ... ate_ajout/

If my french haven't failed me I think I put it ordered by recently added so you can see the latest additions
It seems like you're trying to replace every list. I'm just curious as to why. I like the Times list. I think people like it in general, so what's the problem?
I'm not trying to replace anything. I'm not a mod and I don't get a say on what is replaced or adopted. I may not like some lists but there are fans of every list that has been adopted so it's all cool.
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#5376

Post by Lilarcor »

Finding new and cool lists and putting them on icm is always a good thing. We should always be rethinking and developing the 'canon' of icm. :) Thanks dirty!
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#5377

Post by dirty_score »

Lilarcor wrote: March 29th, 2021, 11:22 pm Finding new and cool lists and putting them on icm is always a good thing. We should always be rethinking and developing the 'canon' of icm. :) Thanks dirty!
No problemo. :cheers:
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#5378

Post by cinephage »

dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:49 pm I would glady ditch The Time's 100 Best French Films with "French Cinema is Crap" or "Le cinéma français, c'est de la merde" three books that put light on some hidden gems of french cinema.

Actually, there is a fourth book that came out last year, I asked the list creator to update it.
I enjoy that list, but these are really specific films, that had little influence on society or french cinema history, this is a list for french enthusiast who enjoy genre films.
I wouldn't replace a list of classics and milestones of french cinema with a list of close to unknown films (the idea of the writers was to have french cinephiles find out about these films nobody knows about). That would be like replacing the Cahier du Cinema 100 films with the ICM 500<400...

People who want to find out about french cinema should watch la regle du jeu, les enfants du paradis or jules et jim, not Atomik Circus or du suif chez les arabes...
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#5379

Post by Onderhond »

cinephage wrote: March 30th, 2021, 7:30 am People who want to find out about french cinema should watch la regle du jeu, les enfants du paradis or jules et jim, not Atomik Circus or du suif chez les arabes...
Ideally they'll watch a bit of both and decide what they like best, no? I mean, unless you want only traditional cinephiles to take an interest in French cinema ...
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#5380

Post by St. Gloede »

OldAle1 wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:57 pm
dirty_score wrote: March 29th, 2021, 5:49 pm I would glady ditch The Time's 100 Best French Films with "French Cinema is Crap" or "Le cinéma français, c'est de la merde" three books that put light on some hidden gems of french cinema.

Actually, there is a fourth book that came out last year, I asked the list creator to update it.
That's a pretty cool list - I haven't seen much from it, but a great many of the unseen are on my watchlist. A reasonable mixture of arthouse, mainstream comedy & drama, and genre stuff. But I have to question any list, at least any made quite recently like this one, that has the balls to call films like The Passion of Joan of Arc, La jetée, Diabolique, The Wages of Fear and Week End "hidden gems".
The problem with books, or more specifically, listmaking based on books, is that there can be an issue in terms of what to include - (unless it is in a strict list-based format). Often any mention appear to be included, even if in a byline - including besides and points of reference. If we look at this list in particular even the Dutch Spoorloos managed to get in. It is further frustrating that the list has been alphabetised, meaning we can't even guess potential connections and which films they were brought up with.

I quite like the idea of this anti-canon though. It has everything from Yannick Bellon, Guy Debord and Alain Robbe-Grillet to trashy vampire flicks and exploitation to forgotten dramas and low-budget films well worth a second look.

Seen 60 at present, from what I have seen it leans arthouse and forgotten classics - but then that's just what I generally watch.
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#5381

Post by cinephage »

Onderhond wrote: March 30th, 2021, 7:40 am
cinephage wrote: March 30th, 2021, 7:30 am People who want to find out about french cinema should watch la regle du jeu, les enfants du paradis or jules et jim, not Atomik Circus or du suif chez les arabes...
Ideally they'll watch a bit of both and decide what they like best, no? I mean, unless you want only traditional cinephiles to take an interest in French cinema ...
I think this is a great list for for exploring a very obscure side of french cinema, but it really doesn't say much about french cinema. Most of these film are rare and almost forgotten, both by critics and the audience, and will mostly be enjoyed by genre afficionados. That was the point of these books, actually, to draw attention on these obscure films...
"Sortir de l'ombre une poignée de films obscurs, oubliés, ou mésestimés dont vous ignoriez l'existence !"
Pull out from the shadows a handful of obscure films, forgotten, underestimated or whose existence was ignored by you...

Not even anti cannon, really, but rather a reevaluation of obscure, mostly forgotten, titles... Which is fine, really.
Anyone is free to watch any movie they like, but I feel the current offiial lists are more representative of what french cinema is, as an art form, and as part of worldwide cinema history, than this one, however good and exciting it is to film buffs (I am one of them, and have supported that initiative since it started).

By the way, it is a series of list-based books.
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#5382

Post by St. Gloede »

beavis wrote: March 29th, 2021, 8:53 pm if these two would also be present, I might be persuaded to also lobby for this list: Litan and Les jeux de la Comtesse Dolingen de Gratz :)
I have both actually, will give Les jeux de la Comtesse Dolingen de Gratz a look today.
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#5383

Post by beavis »

St. Gloede wrote: March 30th, 2021, 8:54 pm
beavis wrote: March 29th, 2021, 8:53 pm if these two would also be present, I might be persuaded to also lobby for this list: Litan and Les jeux de la Comtesse Dolingen de Gratz :)
I have both actually, will give Les jeux de la Comtesse Dolingen de Gratz a look today.
With your love for Robbe-Grillet I think you'll like it. Perec worked behind the scenes on this one I think... his wife is the director. There is another similar one in the list from the book called Spermula (ignore the title, it makes you expect a quite different movie I think)... but the Unica Zurn aspect of this one makes if a lot more deeper, subtle and surrealistic for me
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#5384

Post by dirty_score »

31/3/2020
- A.V. Club's The Best Movies of the 2010s
- TSPDT's 1,000 Greatest Films: 1001-2000
- Slate's The Black Film Canon
- BFI's 100 European Horror Films
- Maariv's Best Israeli Films of All Time
- Hürriyet's The 100 Best Movies of Turkish Cinema (replacement)

31/7/2020 (4 months later)
- Paste's The 100 Best Romantic Comedies of All Time
- Cóndor de Plata Award - Best Argentinian Film

6/10/2020 (2 months and a week later)
- Time Out's The 101 Best Action Movies Ever Made
- Pinoy Rebyu's 100 Greatest Pinoy Films of All Time

9/1/2021 (3 months later)
Sector Cine's Best Mexican Films of All Time
Pixar Directors Recommend: Films for Kids Under 13

Since you guys spoiled us much, my guess would be more two lists this month or the next, amirite? :party:
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#5385

Post by Torgo »

2 more lists would be overdue and the guy(s) missed the perfect timing for a Easter present! :rolleyes:
The world still is in lockdown, we don't HAVE anything else to do than watching movies. We need more LISTS! :circle:

If the mods forgot which two were the next to adopt, I gave out a hint.
:rolleyes:
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#5386

Post by Onderhond »

Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 2:24 pm The world still is in lockdown, we don't HAVE anything else to do than watching movies.
Sounds like an ideal time to catch up on some mini-series tehe
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#5387

Post by xianjiro »

Gee, glad to see you've finished the 16,000+ titles that are already official. I used to be in the top 15 on the site and have barely managed half that number.
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#5388

Post by Fergenaprido »

dirty_score wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm Since you guys spoiled us much, my guess would be more two lists this month or the next, amirite? :party:
All I will say is that we do have a planned schedule of when to adopt new lists so that they are happening regularly throughout the year.

Well, that and your timing is pretty impeccable - I am sending out adoption requests this weekend.
Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 2:24 pm 2 more lists would be overdue and the guy(s) missed the perfect timing for a Easter present! :rolleyes:
Well, Easter's not a holiday I would think to time an adoption to, unless it was an Easter- or Religion-related list I guess. But who's to say we're not going with Orthodox Easter (which is quite later than Western Easter this year)? :folded: :P
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#5389

Post by Torgo »

:woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
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#5390

Post by joachimt »

Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:49 pm :woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
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#5391

Post by flavo5000 »

joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:49 pm :woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
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Post by xianjiro »

flavo5000 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 2:22 am
joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:49 pm :woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
so what does that make country lists then - like opening a present and finding a truss? :huh:
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#5393

Post by kongs_speech »

Just so we're clear, I am absolutely willing to whore myself out to whomever necessary in exchange for making Sleazoid Express official.
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Post by mjf314 »

flavo5000 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 2:22 am
joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:49 pm :woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
It depends how good the socks are. If they're good socks, I would be happy.
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#5395

Post by Fergenaprido »

mjf314 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 4:30 am
flavo5000 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 2:22 am
joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
It depends how good the socks are. If they're good socks, I would be happy.
Reminds me of the commercial we used to have:

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#5396

Post by joachimt »

flavo5000 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 2:22 am
joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Torgo wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:49 pm :woot: LISTS :circle:


@xianjiro: With lists, it's like with toys and games - they stay exciting for just so long and then you need MOAR fresh ones, whether you finished them or not. :D
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
Haha, a few weeks ago my wife caught me watching To All the Boys I've Loved Before. My wife: "Why the hell are you watching this? This is not like you, Joachim!" Me: "Honey, I can explain!! It's on the official iCM list Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies."
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#5397

Post by mjf314 »

joachimt wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:05 am Haha, a few weeks ago my wife caught me watching To All the Boys I've Loved Before. My wife: "Why the hell are you watching this? This is not like you, Joachim!" Me: "Honey, I can explain!! It's on the official iCM list Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies."
Do you not watch romcoms? Or is there something unusual about this particular movie? (I haven't seen it)
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#5398

Post by joachimt »

mjf314 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:28 am
joachimt wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:05 am Haha, a few weeks ago my wife caught me watching To All the Boys I've Loved Before. My wife: "Why the hell are you watching this? This is not like you, Joachim!" Me: "Honey, I can explain!! It's on the official iCM list Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies."
Do you not watch romcoms? Or is there something unusual about this particular movie? (I haven't seen it)
This is more a teen movie than a romcom for adults.
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xianjiro
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Post by xianjiro »

joachimt wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:05 am
flavo5000 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 2:22 am
joachimt wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 7:59 pm
Good analogy. When you give kids presents on their birthday, they are excited about every present. But some things are never touched again after unwrapping. Or they play with it for a few days and get bored with it. So yeah, basically our behavior with lists. :lol:
If this analogy holds, then Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies was like opening a present and getting socks. :lol:
Haha, a few weeks ago my wife caught me watching To All the Boys I've Loved Before. My wife: "Why the hell are you watching this? This is not like you, Joachim!" Me: "Honey, I can explain!! It's on the official iCM list Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies."
I don't know, I think I'm catching a scent of a Moravian tart around these here parts. :unsure:
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Post by mjf314 »

joachimt wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:30 am
mjf314 wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:28 am
joachimt wrote: April 4th, 2021, 6:05 am Haha, a few weeks ago my wife caught me watching To All the Boys I've Loved Before. My wife: "Why the hell are you watching this? This is not like you, Joachim!" Me: "Honey, I can explain!! It's on the official iCM list Paste's 100 Romantic Comedies."
Do you not watch romcoms? Or is there something unusual about this particular movie? (I haven't seen it)
This is more a teen movie than a romcom for adults.
The adults who wrote the reviews listed on Rotten Tomatoes think it's a good movie (it has a 96% score).
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