Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
NOTE: Board emails should be working again. Information on forum upgrade and style issues.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 22 released November 17th * EXCLUSIVE * We Are Mentioned in a Book!!! Interview with Mary Guillermin on Rapture, JG & More)
Polls: Directors (Waiting for results), 1929 (Results), Directorial Debut Features (Mar 12th), DtC - Nominations (Mar 20th)
Challenges: Experimental/Avant Garde, Benelux, Run the Director
Film of the Week: Daisan no kagemusha, March nominations (Feb 26th)

New Official List Discussion

User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 2080
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#5081

Post by Torgo »

Lakigigar wrote: July 14th, 2020, 10:45 am
Fergenaprido wrote: July 14th, 2020, 10:24 am
Lakigigar wrote: July 14th, 2020, 12:26 am Japan made more movies than Latin America during that time. Since 2000, 354 movies became official. In Japan only 19 + 54 = 71, none of them are newer than 2008, meaning zero movies from both lists since 2010. Some countries have more lists like Korea with 2, though both are dated as well. You're failing to make your point
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, especially the 354. Yes, there are no official films on Japanese country lists from the 2010s, but there are a number on other official lists. Plus, this is not an issue unique to Japan, and I don't think the remedy is adopting decade lists for each country or region. And while Korea does indeed have two lists, they're both shorter than the single Japanese list (100+100 vs 199), which is why I was looking at the number of films as opposed to the number of lists. That was my point.
Lakigigar wrote: July 14th, 2020, 12:26 amLots of directors and critics have their own official list, like Ebert. Whats their added value? If we removed it, we only lose 9 official movies.
I'm not sure I understand your argument here. Are you comparing Ebert's list to the one from Cousins?
Lakigigar wrote: July 14th, 2020, 12:26 am Sorry, but who cares about the Caucasus, if you compare them to East Asia. I'm sure 500 more Japanese and Chinese movies deserve to become official before 5 Caucasian ones. One day, we can include them, but not before Asia (and Europe] gets the Latin America treatment.
I'm not trying to compare them; you mentioned that you thought Asian cinema deserved more recognition, and I was agreeing with you, and sharing my own personal thoughts on parts of the continent that I felt were underlooked. You don't have to share my enthusiasm about them. :)
I'm on my other pc so i can make a longer post. With my older pc, i have to copy / paste characters which is annoying. (why i wasn't able to finish fok! top 250 also), but well.

The 354 films is the total for the Cinema Tropical lists from the two decade lists. Especially the second one added a bunch of films (250 ones), which is good. I love that list. It's a great list. It's why I say other nations / regions deserve to be treated like Latin American is done. There are few gaps in Latin America, aside of maybe a few country lists, but I think they're well covered already thanks to the decade Latin America lists (and the older Cien anos sin soledad (which only runs until 2000) list). Latin America is currently well covered, and done in an excellent way.

Japan however made more movies throughout the same period and the Kinema Jumpo (which is more focused on classic Japanese cinema) and Tom Vick's Asian Cinema list only have 71 movies from 2000 to 2008. Both lists are dated as well. I wouldn't remove them. What helps in Korea favour is that their cinema really started to flourish in the 21st century, which is why a large amount of films of the beginning of 21st century is covered in their lists, sometimes twice. But both lists are also dated. It's annoying to me to see that a lot of country lists are dated, but that's not to blame for ICM.

The critics lists are okay, i don't use them but they barely add new official films and more importantly are composed by one single person, most likely famous, so why is it impossible to add a list by someone a little bit less famous that covers an entire period / country / region that would fill a gap. It's not perfect, but what i'm saying is that it's been done in the past.

And I'm not against adding a Caucasus list for example. In fact, it would be great, even though i would have zero checks and not work on it (yet), but i think there are bigger gaps left yet to fill, especially contemporary cinema and East Asian cinema.

Now where I bump one of the older posts from this thread, I realize it's you! It was you all along. :ph43r:

Totally agree on this.
User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1626
Joined: October 31st, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#5082

Post by Lakigigar »

Okay great. I'm currently looking for more lists.

The loveHK film site has a ton of old-fashioned links, like 50 sites. Most are unfortunately either dead or gone. But i'll look further.
User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1626
Joined: October 31st, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#5083

Post by Lakigigar »

I found one... A book that was released in september last year that includes 36 South Korean movies from the early century to the present: The Hidden Gems: The Undiscovered Best in Korean Cinema

36 movies, 16 of them currently unofficial

list on ICM

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/the+ ... ort=checks

the book

https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Gems-Undi ... ks&sr=1-18
Film lovers from all around the world applauded Bong Joon-ho's achievement of winning the 2020 Academy Award for Best Picture with his film Parasite. This was the first time a non-English film won Best Picture in Oscar history.

Although his success has brought a lot of novel attention to the realm of Korean film, this genre is still somewhat alienated from the circle of world cinema.

As part of this important movement in Korean film, this book can act as a guide to Western audiences who are interested in Korean movies but are unsure where to start. This book includes Korean films that were released between the early 2000s and present.
dirty_score
Posts: 412
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 6:00 am
Contact:

#5084

Post by dirty_score »

Lakigigar wrote: February 11th, 2021, 3:58 pm Can we please have more contemporary Asian lists? And more lists not only focused on classics, arthouse and mainstream movies?

That really annoys me a lot on ICM.

I still believe adopting the MM top 1000 list + a contemporary Japanese/Taiwanese and perhaps Chinese / Korean lists. Perhaps an Asian cult list?

Many country lists are also dated and very old.
Kinema Jumpo - newest movie only 2008
Vilsack - newest only 2007
Korea - newest only 2009
HK - newest 2011
this might suit your interest:
Timeout's The 100 Best Hong Kong Films
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6107
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#5085

Post by Onderhond »

With only 6 films from the past decade, that one isn't helping much either. Also, I think that list took the wrong To Live (though can't be sure without the original listing).
dirty_score
Posts: 412
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 6:00 am
Contact:

#5086

Post by dirty_score »

Onderhond wrote: February 15th, 2021, 12:29 pm With only 6 films from the past decade, that one isn't helping much either. Also, I think that list took the wrong To Live (though can't be sure without the original listing).
To Live (1992) directed by Evans Chan is the one on the source list but you were probably thinking of To Live (1994) directed by Zhang Yimou ?
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6107
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#5087

Post by Onderhond »

dirty_score wrote: February 15th, 2021, 2:16 pm To Live (1992) directed by Evans Chan is the one on the source list but you were probably thinking of To Live (1994) directed by Zhang Yimou ?
Yeah, that's a surprising choice then (since the rest is rather safe). Cool though, hadn't heard about that one before.
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6107
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#5089

Post by Onderhond »

dirty_score wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 5:32 pm If the weird and badmovies lists had a baby (fans oh horror, cult and asian cinema will also like):
Michael Vaughn's The Ultimate Guide to Strange Cinema
This is nice. I'd rather see Calamari Wrestler than Fight Club on a cult list.
User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1626
Joined: October 31st, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#5090

Post by Lakigigar »

We need a new cult list yes!
User avatar
Knaldskalle
Moderator
Posts: 10176
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: New Mexico, USA
Contact:

#5091

Post by Knaldskalle »

I'd be very reluctant to make any of these official. It's basically an overview of the "genre" as a whole with reviews of all the movies that fit within, whether they're any good or not (he even includes a couple that are so rare that he hasn't seen them). And as much as I like gialli, there's a lot of crap movies on those lists. I'd much prefer a short list of the best of gialli (25-50 titles) that could serve as an introduction and then Howarth lists can serve as a guide for those who want more.
ImageImageImageImage

Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.
User avatar
Tim2460
Posts: 3651
Joined: October 1st, 2018, 7:23 pm
Location: Dijon, France
Contact:

#5092

Post by Tim2460 »

Don't you all think we already have enought Italian scream Queens from the tszdt list??
User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1626
Joined: October 31st, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#5093

Post by Lakigigar »

Tim2460 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:48 pm Don't you all think we already have enought Italian scream Queens from the tszdt list??
Don't you think we already have enough arthouse & classics from the 100+ lists???
User avatar
jeroeno
Posts: 3763
Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Valkenswaard, The Netherlands
Contact:

#5094

Post by jeroeno »

dirty_score wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 5:32 pm If the weird and badmovies lists had a baby (fans oh horror, cult and asian cinema will also like):
Michael Vaughn's The Ultimate Guide to Strange Cinema
That looks like an awesome list to work on. I'd vote for this list to become official (as long as no other lists become unofficial because of it off course :guns: )
User avatar
Tim2460
Posts: 3651
Joined: October 1st, 2018, 7:23 pm
Location: Dijon, France
Contact:

#5095

Post by Tim2460 »

Lakigigar wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:57 pm
Tim2460 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:48 pm Don't you all think we already have enought Italian scream Queens from the tszdt list??
Don't you think we already have enough arthouse & classics from the 100+ lists???
Maybe it's me watching only Giallo to improve my TSZDT ranking but i was under the impression Giallo was a big part of the TSZDT "experience".
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 8913
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#5096

Post by xianjiro »

Lakigigar wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:57 pm
Tim2460 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:48 pm Don't you all think we already have enought Italian scream Queens from the tszdt list??
Don't you think we already have enough arthouse & classics from the 100+ lists???
pretty much yes to both
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 8913
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#5097

Post by xianjiro »

Tim2460 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 7:53 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:57 pm
Tim2460 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:48 pm Don't you all think we already have enought Italian scream Queens from the tszdt list??
Don't you think we already have enough arthouse & classics from the 100+ lists???
Maybe it's me watching only Giallo to improve my TSZDT ranking but i was under the impression Giallo was a big part of the TSZDT "experience".
giallo has also been tossed around here as needing it own list for most of the years I've been on the board - and lest we forget, we've now got that EuroHorror list as well, Can't imagine it doesn't have some gialli as well, but I'm betting it's duplicative of the encyclopedic TSZDT
User avatar
Knaldskalle
Moderator
Posts: 10176
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: New Mexico, USA
Contact:

#5098

Post by Knaldskalle »

Yeah, there are around 20 or so gialli on the Eurohorror list. There's a good chunk on TSZDT as well. Given that they're basically halfway between thrillers and horror, but traditionally classified as a horror subgenre, I think there are a bunch of people who are missing out because they're not interested in "horror movies."

FWIW, I'd like to see a list of poliziotteschi as well, another "subgenre" I don't know too much about.
ImageImageImageImage

Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.
User avatar
Harco
Donator
Posts: 607
Joined: May 3rd, 2013, 6:00 am
Location: Groningen
Contact:

#5099

Post by Harco »

Last edited by Harco on February 23rd, 2021, 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
:ICM: | :letbxd:
User avatar
Knaldskalle
Moderator
Posts: 10176
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: New Mexico, USA
Contact:

#5100

Post by Knaldskalle »

Harco wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 9:55 pm @ Knalds:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/blaz ... ums/harco/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/gial ... ook/harco/

No idea how curated they are, though.
I use the first one extensively (thanks!), but it's another case of "lock, stock and barrel." I don't know about the second one. I have it in my watchlist, but without knowing more about the genre (or the source book) I really can't judge one way or the other.
ImageImageImageImage

Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.
User avatar
Daviddoes
Posts: 1337
Joined: August 6th, 2012, 6:00 am
Contact:

#5101

Post by Daviddoes »

jeroeno wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 7:03 pm
dirty_score wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 5:32 pm If the weird and badmovies lists had a baby (fans oh horror, cult and asian cinema will also like):
Michael Vaughn's The Ultimate Guide to Strange Cinema
That looks like an awesome list to work on. I'd vote for this list to become official (as long as no other lists become unofficial because of it off course :guns: )
This. All of this.
User avatar
kongs_speech
Posts: 960
Joined: April 4th, 2020, 10:32 pm
Location: FL
Contact:

#5102

Post by kongs_speech »

What about a list of adult films? I'm thinking artistic stuff like Radley Metzger, not Cum Fart Cocktails 4. Does a legitimate list of such exist? Would be a nice counterpoint to the Pixar Recommends list. :lol:
Quartoxuma wrote: A deeply human, life-affirming disgusting check whore.
Image
User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 5556
Joined: February 9th, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#5103

Post by OldAle1 »

kongs_speech wrote: Yesterday, 7:51 pm What about a list of adult films? I'm thinking artistic stuff like Radley Metzger, not Cum Fart Cocktails 4. Does a legitimate list of such exist? Would be a nice counterpoint to the Pixar Recommends list. :lol:
Dangerous waters man, dangerous waters.
User avatar
WalterNeff
Donator
Posts: 3316
Joined: July 27th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#5104

Post by WalterNeff »

OldAle1 wrote: Yesterday, 7:54 pm
kongs_speech wrote: Yesterday, 7:51 pm What about a list of adult films? I'm thinking artistic stuff like Radley Metzger, not Cum Fart Cocktails 4. Does a legitimate list of such exist? Would be a nice counterpoint to the Pixar Recommends list. :lol:
Dangerous waters man, dangerous waters.
Radley Metzger's The Lickerish Quartet (1970) is on the Vogel list. Can't help you beyond that.
User avatar
kongs_speech
Posts: 960
Joined: April 4th, 2020, 10:32 pm
Location: FL
Contact:

#5105

Post by kongs_speech »

WalterNeff wrote: Yesterday, 11:35 pm
OldAle1 wrote: Yesterday, 7:54 pm
kongs_speech wrote: Yesterday, 7:51 pm What about a list of adult films? I'm thinking artistic stuff like Radley Metzger, not Cum Fart Cocktails 4. Does a legitimate list of such exist? Would be a nice counterpoint to the Pixar Recommends list. :lol:
Dangerous waters man, dangerous waters.
Radley Metzger's The Lickerish Quartet (1970) is on the Vogel list. Can't help you beyond that.
I watched Score last week and was blown away by how much it caters to my cinematic interests. A real bummer that it's not an official check. Either way, I will most assuredly seek out the rest of Metzger's oeuvre.
Quartoxuma wrote: A deeply human, life-affirming disgusting check whore.
Image
User avatar
Ebbywebby
Posts: 3850
Joined: September 10th, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

#5106

Post by Ebbywebby »

"Lickerish" is actually one of the films I aim to see in the near future. I'm on a bit of a Vogel run lately....I've seen 11 films from the list since the beginning of the year. And a few others besides "Lickerish" are on my docket too.
User avatar
brokenface
Donator
Posts: 13808
Joined: December 29th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#5107

Post by brokenface »

kongs_speech wrote: Yesterday, 7:51 pm What about a list of adult films? I'm thinking artistic stuff like Radley Metzger, not Cum Fart Cocktails 4. Does a legitimate list of such exist? Would be a nice counterpoint to the Pixar Recommends list. :lol:
I'm sensing a 3rd presence in the forum :unsure:
User avatar
beavis
Posts: 2711
Joined: June 20th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

#5108

Post by beavis »

I just nominated The Image (1975) for DtC! Metzger is indeed in a class of his own. I haven't seen everything he made myself yet, but all I saw was special in a way. Besides the one on Vogel I think DtC and 500<400 are the way to go for now to get them official. In my capacity as a list mod for ICM I have searched for a way to get erotica like this recognized more, either by finding a pure erotica list or going the sexy/forbidden list or exploitation/cult list route, without any concrete results.

As it happens I have just today stepped back as a mod... so I can only say from the sidelines with the rest of you that, yes there is a niche there that would be welcomed by a significant portion of cinephiles as something that needs to be on ICM; but that's about it. As always with suggestions like this, it would ad a lot to the discussion if you can link to a list source (that is not the index of a book or the catalog of a publisher) ;)
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 8913
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#5109

Post by xianjiro »

kongs_speech wrote: Yesterday, 7:51 pm What about a list of adult films?
well, as others have indicated, this topic has plenty of history around here. The only thing I can add is my understanding was that the site owners had categorically said, "no porn list". I know it seems counterintuitive given there are full monty pornos on official lists, but that's Bruce Hornsby and the Range country. "That's just the way it is". I can't say if it will ever change, but will say that discussing it hasn't gone well up to now.
Post Reply