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New Official List Discussion

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Angel Glez
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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4841

Post by Angel Glez » August 5th, 2020, 9:13 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 4th, 2020, 8:37 pm
Angel Glez wrote:
August 4th, 2020, 8:14 pm
joachimt wrote:
August 4th, 2020, 7:42 pm

We agree with you. Name changed:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cond ... nian+film/
"The awards are considered Argentina's equivalent of the Academy Awards"
The Academy Awards are the Premios Sur. ;)
True, the Premios Sur are analogous to the Oscars in terms of who gives out the award (i.e. an Academy of film professionals), but my understanding is that in terms of reknown/prestige, the Condor de Plata awards are better known/more prestigious/have been around a lot longer.

Plus, that sentence was probably taken directly from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine ... ssociation :P

Bad source.

"The Argentine Film Critics Association is a member of the International Federation of Film Critics, also known as FIPRESCI" - That's wrong. In fact, there are two film critics associations and two awards:
- Asociación de Cronistas Cinematográficos de la Argentina: The oldest and more inclined towards mainstream.
- FIPRESCI Argentina: Founded in 1999 and more inclined towards arthouse.
The first one would be an Argentinean equivalent of USA's National Board of Review and the second one of National Society of Film Critics. Well, FA scornfully say that ACCA's awards are more like the Golden Globes. :lol:

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#4842

Post by xianjiro » August 5th, 2020, 7:29 pm

I did some of the leg work on Condor de Plata and one thing working in everyone's favor: the source material is difficult to find since the corresponding websites have lapsed so secondary sources were what I had to work with when just trying to verify the CdP was complete and accurate. However, that said, I didn't put much more than a little effort into the others Angel listed though I did a little to educate myself on who was doing which award so that I didn't mix something up with the CdP.

It's no wonder people get a bit confused and yes, secondary sources, when primary sources aren't available, are much less reliable. I'm guessing Argentine libraries have better information, maybe even US libraries if it can be located via ILL, but that's been MIA for the most part since the covid panic started earlier in the year and we had no idea when that would or will ease.

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#4843

Post by sortile9io » August 6th, 2020, 5:25 pm

joachimt wrote:
August 4th, 2020, 7:42 pm
sortile9io wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:04 am
Regarding the Argentinian list, I'd rather had kept the original Cóndor de Plata name just like we do with other lists (Gouden Kalf, Guldbagge, Kinemathekverbund, Cien años sin soledad, Magyar Művészeti Akadémia, etc.).
We agree with you. Name changed:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cond ... nian+film/
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#4844

Post by beasterne » August 10th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Here's a discussion I'm curious about: currently, films that are categorized as "TV Shorts" are excluded from the IMDb Shorts Top 50 list, and films that are categorized as "TV Movies" are excluded from the IMDb Movie lists. I learned this in the thread for the recent Films on 0 Official Lists poll, when we were discussing How the Grinch Stole Christmas and A Charlie Brown Christmas not showing up on any lists.

Here is some research Fergenaprido did on the topic:

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 8:58 am
The old imdb lists excluded made-for-tv films from their decade and genre toplists, so I think we just inherited that filter on icm. I don't know if it was always that way, though, because A Muppet Family Christmas used to be on the Shorts list, and that's also a TV movie (though it's not a short - I fixed that on imdb and then it was removed from the list).

If we did include TV Shorts in the filter for the imdb Shorts list, 6 of them would enter the toplist:
#5 Too Many Cooks
#10 Padal proshlogodniy sneg [Last Year's Snow Was Falling]
#12 How the Grinch Stole Christmas
#28 The Snowman
#42 Robot Chicken: Star Wars
#43 Robot Chicken: Star Wars Episode II

Charlie Brown wouldn't make it (yet) because it's categorized as a TV Movie instead of TV Short. I've just submitted a correction on imdb, so hopefully that will be changed in a day or two. It also didn't have the Short genre tag.
What are everyone's thoughts on potentially including TV Shorts in the IMDb list?

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#4845

Post by AdamH » August 10th, 2020, 2:20 pm

I would certainly include TV shorts. Most of the ones listed above are really no different from any other shorts.

I don't really know anything about Robot Chicken but it gets a little trickier when it's an actual TV show that made a special episode.

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#4846

Post by Fergenaprido » August 10th, 2020, 3:10 pm

Yeah, Robot Chicken gave me pause as well. Imdb also has a film type called "TV Special" for one-offs like stand-up comedy specials. They used to include things like The Star Wars Holiday Special (it's even got "special" in the name, lol), but it seems they've converted those to tv-short and tv-movie. Looking at what is still currently listed as "Special", it also includes those annual Live! musicals one of the networks does, Beyoncé's Lemonade visual album, Comedy Central Roasts and Mark Twain prizes ceremonies, and I assume all the big annual awards ceremonies like the Oscars, Emmys, etc. And also some weird comedy stuff like this and this (the first is a short and the second is feature-length, so there's no distinction there).

Based on this episode list from Wikipedia, it sounds like the Robot Chicken "shorts" should properly be categorized as "specials", but that may be tricky to get changed on imdb.

And if we start allowing tv-shorts into the imdb list on icm, then shouldn't we also allow tv-movies in the other genre and decade lists to be consistent? There are different check and vote thresholds for the imdb lists, so I don't know which films would be eligible to be on each list, but here are the highest rated tv-movies with 400+ checks and 1000+votes. Among them, you'll see some notable titles that are already on multiple icm lists, but not on any imdb lists: The War Game, Sobache serdtse [Heart of a Dog], Edvard Munch, Style Wars, and the Up Series (except 7 Up, since it's only 40 minutes imdb considers it a short instead of a feature), and a bunch more (including a bunch of Christmas movies).

And if we start to allow tv-movies, what do we do with straight-to-video releases? :lol:

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#4847

Post by AdamH » August 10th, 2020, 3:11 pm

Isn't there a way to filter out ones which shouldn't be eligible? Something like The Snowman absolutely should be eligible, for example. I'm sure trickier ones can be filtered out.

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#4848

Post by mightysparks » August 10th, 2020, 3:22 pm

I would rather The Snowman not be eligible...
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#4849

Post by zuma » August 10th, 2020, 3:54 pm

This is a slippery slope that will quickly lead to renaming the site to ichecktv.com

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#4850

Post by brokenface » August 10th, 2020, 4:02 pm

I don't know about TV movies, or at least I'd want to see what would potentially make the cut. Ratings on IMDB can be a bit inflated for TV compared to films (possibly due to fewer people rating TV & less target for manipulation as not on top 250)

Although tbh, lines have got very blurred..films released on Netflix/other VOD services just get treated as regular movies with 'Internet' in the release dates. Hard to really argue why a straight-to-HBO feature is categorically different from a straight-to-Netflix feature.

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#4851

Post by AdamH » August 10th, 2020, 5:38 pm

mightysparks wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 3:22 pm
I would rather The Snowman not be eligible...
I know you don't like it and you're joking but there's really no reason at all that it should be excluded from the shorts list. It's ludicrous to think it should be ineligible whereas so many other animated shorts are eligible. IMO, of course.

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#4852

Post by jeroeno » August 10th, 2020, 5:53 pm

Just came across this because it was shared on a certain private torrent site. Might be a cool addition to ICM:

The Collection of Central Asian Documentary Films AKA Documentary Films of Central Asia
SpoilerShow
This set was released ca. 2006 by Public Fund Center of Central Asian Cinematography with the assistance of the Open Society Institute, in an effort to spread appreciation of Central Asian filmmaking and understanding of the nations and peoples of Central Asia. It was released to diplomatic and educational institutions.

The set includes the following 10 DVDs:

Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence -
Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Tajik Documentary Films of Independence -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence -
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence
Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence
The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs



Which each DVD contains several short films as listed below:


Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Tayna raskrytoy ladoni AKA The Mystery of Open Palm [1968] by Oraz Abishev

Prikosnoveniye k vechnosti AKA Touching the Eternity [1966] by Ararat Mashanov

Kamshat [1975] by Asya Suleeva

Neobkhodima fotografia AKA Photo is Necessary [1975] by Yuryi Piskunov

Interval [1982] by Sergey Azimov

Gorod i smog AKA City and Smog [1984] by Vladimir Tatenko

Stseny u fontana AKA Scenes at the Fountain [1986] by Igor Gonopolskyi

Budu zaschischatsya sam AKA I Will Advocate Myself [1987] by Vladimir Tyulkin

Kumshagalskaya istoriya AKA Kumshagal Story [1987] by Igor Vovnyanko


Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence

Nevada-Kazakhstan [1989] by Sergey Sharif

Zhana-Arka [1991] by Ersain Abrakhmanov

Khronika neobyavlennoy demonstratsyi AKA Chronicle of Undeclared Demonstration [1991] by Asya Baigozhina and Naana Chankova

Domusulmanskiye obryady i verovaniya kazakhov AKA Kazakh Pre-Muslim Ceremonies and Religious Faiths [1993] by Bakhyt Kayirkebov

Schatsye AKA Paradise [1995] by Sergey Dvortsevoy


Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Pribytiye poezda AKA The Arrival of the Train to Dushanbe [1929] by V. Kuzin and N. Gezulin and A. Shevich

Kolybelnaya AKA Lullaby [1966] by Davlat Khudonazarov

12 kilometrov puti AKA 12 Kilometers of Road [1973] by Bako Sadykov

Galla (zerna) AKA Cereals [1982] by Mayram Yusupova

Adonis XIV [1986] by Bako Sadykov

Zhakon AKA A Sight at Yourself [1986] by Safarbek Soliyev

Taifun Tamara AKA Typhoon Tamara [1986] by Pulat Akhmatov

Kobus (Tabak) AKA Tobacco [1988] by Safarbek Soliyev

Litso AKA Face [1989] by Mayram Yusupova

Kosai davr (chasha vremeni) AKA Cup of Time [1999] by Gulyandom Mukhabbhatova and Daler Rakhmatov


Tajik Documentary Films of Independence

Khoki Vatan (Zemlya Rodiny) AKA Ancestry's Country [1993] by Orzu Sharipov

Posira AKA This Life [1999] by Nosyr Rakhmonov and Safar Khakdodov

Komandirovka AKA The Business Trip [1998] by Mayram Yusupova

11.000 km. ot Nyu-Yorka AKA 11.000 km. from New York [2006] by Orzu Sharipov

Novaya Penelopa AKA New Penelope [2006] by Georgyi Dzalaev and Alovuddin Addulloev


Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Khudaibergen Devonov [1970] by S. Davlatov

Uchitel AKA Teacher [1972] by N. Ataullayeva

Podvig Tashkenta AKA The Feat of Tashkent [1975] by Ali Khamraev

Parandzha AKA Yashmak [1977] by Malik Kayumov

Aralkum [1987] by B. Muzopharov

Muzhchiny. Muzhchiny! Muzhchiny? AKA Men. Men! Men? [1987] by D. Salymov


Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence

Karakul AKA Black Ashes [1997] by Shukhrat Makhmutov

Sotvorenie AKA Creation [2001] by R. Ibrokhimov

Kolodets AKA The Well [2003] by Turnyaz Kalymbetov

Akhmad Yassaviy [2004] by Dzakhongir Kasymov

Pervaya ostanovka AKA The First Stop [2006] by Shukhrat Makhmutov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Manaschi [1965] by Bolotbek Shamshiev

Eto loshadi AKA There Are Horses [1965] by Tolomush Okeyev

Mys gnedogo skakuna AKA Cape of the Bay Runner [1966] by Yzya Gershtein

Sluzhu Sovetskomu Soyuzu AKA I Serve the Soviet Union [1966] by Melis Ubukeyev

Zamki na peske AKA Castles on the Sand [1967] by Yakov Bronshtein and Algis Vidugiris

Boom [1969] by Tolomush Okeyev

Pochta AKA The Post [1972] by Bekesh Abdylayev

Kochevye kosmonavta AKA Cosmonaut's Nomad Encampment [1982] by Shamil Dzhaparov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence

Bezhala sobaka AKA The Dog was Running [1990] by Aktan Abdykalykov and Erkin Ryspaev

Vysokiy bereg AKA High Shore [1991] by Asan Aitykeyev

Chyortov most AKA The Devil's Bridge [1997] by Temirbek Birnazarov

Kochmon AKA Nomad's Encampment [1998] by Tynai Ibragimov

Alhambra [2001] by Ernest Abdyzhaparov

Asyl [2004] by Lyudmila Grebenshikova and Anara Birismanova

Vniz s sedmogo etazha AKA Crash Down from the Seventh Floor [2006] by Dalmira Tilepbegenova

Sosedi AKA Neighbours [2007] by Tynai Ibragimov

Ya hochu zhit AKA I Want to Live [2007] by Nargiza Mamatkulova


Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence

Kolodets AKA The Well Builders [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Drug chabana AKA Shepherd's Friend [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Istoriya odnogo pobega AKA The Story of One Run [1986] by Murad Alyiev

Aura [1987] by Murad Alyiev

Spasite pustyniu AKA Save the Desert [1988] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Filmy Velmurada Ovezova AKA Films of Velmurad Ovezov [1990]


The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs

Povelitel Mukh AKA Lord of the Flies [1990] by Vladimir Tyulkin
All of these films have English subtitles and are available on that set (or on certain private trackers).

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#4853

Post by xianjiro » August 10th, 2020, 8:34 pm

When it comes to shorts, it's quite difficult to get distribution - no one is going to pay to see a 15 minute movie in the theatre and then get up and go do something else. It's also been a long time since shorts were a routine part of the movie going experience, so the fact that they find a distribution channel on TV is a blessing but someone here has decided it's a curse. That's nonsense. Edit: And no, there aren't enough festival of shorts or shorts included in festivals to negate this argument, but granted, it is also an option.

Likewise a number of documentaries - they can't be sold in the US market but do find homes on TV. We've had a couple official documentaries that have only or mostly been distributed in the US via two PBS series: POV and Independent Lens. Additionally, other PBS series buy stand alone documentaries to air on such shows as American Masters. I haven't seen PBS in over a decade so am unsure what the current state of affairs is. I also can't remember a couple other show titles. We certainly haven't excluded Ken Burns series, so why other documentaries that end up included on TV anthology series? Edit: Basically ditto the festival statement above.

We were fine with obvious series TV like, crap, can't remember the name - something like Black Boxes but I know that's not right. Wasn't the twisted logic that they were anthology series? Even though the writers and production were the same episode upon episode. That was fine, but a true anthology TV series which airs completely independent productions is not. Also, we're fine with things like Heimat and that Polish decameron which are clearly made for TV. Insane!

As for TV movies, I get the bias against made-for-TV movies since that's always suggested dubious quality, at least in the US, but at the same time, these aren't sitcoms or dramatic series like Game of Thrones or Fawlty Towers and as another has said, distribution is changing, we need to at least admit that. Edit: And yes, that includes things like Vimeo and YouTube.

I think we should be much less concerned about format or distribution medium and look to production. The way we've currently been deciding what is in and what is out smacks favoritism and finding ways to qualify certain things certain users "like". Edit: A minimum number of votes to qualify is still a valid requirement.

I'm fine excluding truly episodic TV and that should include things like the work of Ken Burns' studio and anthology shows that have a single production crew. One's like or dislike for a given title should absolutely be immaterial.

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#4854

Post by xianjiro » August 10th, 2020, 8:48 pm

As I think about it, I can think of other examples of TV: Noce i dnie, Fanny & Alexander come to mind. Weren't both originally produced for TV but also edited for theatrical release. Das boot and the mini-series versions of The Godfather and The Shining though I'm slightly less clear about the relation between the mini-series and theatrical releases. How the hell do we separate them if they are nothing but different edits of the source material?

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#4855

Post by St. Gloede » August 10th, 2020, 9:56 pm

I have to say I'm shocked The Snowman is not on any official lists. I did not love it, but it is one of the best regarded shorts of all time, especially in the popular consciousness - they still sell tmemed merchandise for it, etc. As long as they pass the same treshhold I'd say TV shorts should be included, especially as they do not have a category of their own.

TV specials of shows are a little different, surprised they are not listed under the show like most specials are (hell, Only Fools and Horses even did a movie - Miami Twice - which is listed as an ep and lived on specials for like a decade) why aren't they under the show? If purposefully separate entities it makes sense to include them though, just like the Cowboy Bepop, Evangelion and Star Trek films, etc.

(and Robot Chicken is just random sketches, right? So no continuity)

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#4856

Post by Onderhond » August 10th, 2020, 10:02 pm

Must've been at some point in time, because I've seen it. Or maybe it was on the ICM animation list?

Completely unknown here in Belgium though.

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#4857

Post by AdamH » August 10th, 2020, 10:17 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 10:02 pm
Must've been at some point in time, because I've seen it. Or maybe it was on the ICM animation list?

Completely unknown here in Belgium though.
It was in the old IMDb lists at some point before they removed them from the site. It's huge in the UK (I've watched it every single year at Christmas since I was very young).

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#4858

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 10th, 2020, 10:20 pm

At one point, after imdb dropped their lists but before we came up with the current filter, ICM used search links that just said short. Anything with the short tag was included as long as it had enough imdb votes. So yes Robot Chicken and Web Therapy and The Snowman and a few other things were official.

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#4859

Post by flavo5000 » August 10th, 2020, 10:28 pm

I 100% agree with several on here that it seems totally arbitrary to exclude TV shorts and TV movies from lists randomly. Many official lists already include examples given already like Heimat and Fanny & Alexander as well as stuff like the Play for Today TV movies. I mean, stuff like The Wire and Twin Peaks which were clearly TV series have made it onto official lists, and it seems asinine that IMDB excludes things like A Charlie Brown Christmas, one of the most popular and beloved short films ever made, just because of how its classified.

I do agree that individual episodes of non-anthology series in particular wouldn't make sense to include. Otherwise you'd end up with all kinds of randomness on the lists. Although honestly I doubt very many would end up with enough votes to be included in the lists anyway. But honestly why not include the full TV series entry if it receives enough votes? I recently watched I Claudius which is on the TV Miniseries list and it is easily more than twice as long as many one or two season "TV series" that have been excluded. If there is a story told from beginning to end with that purpose in mind, why does it matter how long it took to air it?

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#4860

Post by Onderhond » August 10th, 2020, 10:32 pm

Because episodic watching is not film. While there might be grey areas, I'm really not looking forward to seeing more mini-series or TV stuff pop up in official lists. A short is contained of course, but man the quality of some of these TV specials ...

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#4861

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 10th, 2020, 10:44 pm

flavo5000 wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 10:28 pm
I 100% agree with several on here that it seems totally arbitrary to exclude TV shorts and TV movies from lists randomly. Many official lists already include examples given already like Heimat and Fanny & Alexander as well as stuff like the Play for Today TV movies. I mean, stuff like The Wire and Twin Peaks which were clearly TV series have made it onto official lists, and it seems asinine that IMDB excludes things like A Charlie Brown Christmas, one of the most popular and beloved short films ever made, just because of how its classified.
Just to be clear, we're only talking about the imdb lists here, right?

I'm not opposed to including TV movies and TV shorts. At the time we originally made these lists the way imdb classified TV shorts them made it not possible to include them without including TV series. It seems like it is possible now. I'm not sure there are any TV movies that would make any other list but I kinda agree that the distinction there is pretty arbitrary.

TV miniseries have their own list. Including those, or TV shows, on the movie lists would see them takeover the lists because they have disproportionately higher ratings than movies do.

For TV episodes it's impossible to filter between "normal episode of episodic series" or "stand alone episode of anthology series" or even "completely stand alone film that happens to be labeled TV episode on imdb." The only way to do this would be to manually check every TV episode, and I don't see the value.

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#4862

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 10th, 2020, 10:52 pm

xianjiro wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 8:34 pm
Likewise a number of documentaries - they can't be sold in the US market but do find homes on TV. We've had a couple official documentaries that have only or mostly been distributed in the US via two PBS series: POV and Independent Lens. Additionally, other PBS series buy stand alone documentaries to air on such shows as American Masters. I haven't seen PBS in over a decade so am unsure what the current state of affairs is. I also can't remember a couple other show titles. We certainly haven't excluded Ken Burns series, so why other documentaries that end up included on TV anthology series? Edit: Basically ditto the festival statement above.
As said above, I can't include these in the imdb lists because of how imdb filters unless I manually pick them off to include them. Ken Burns is on the mini series list, his films are not on the Docs list, because the Docs list (and all the other imdb lists) does not include mini series.
We were fine with obvious series TV like, crap, can't remember the name - something like Black Boxes but I know that's not right. Wasn't the twisted logic that they were anthology series? Even though the writers and production were the same episode upon episode. That was fine, but a true anthology TV series which airs completely independent productions is not. Also, we're fine with things like Heimat and that Polish decameron which are clearly made for TV. Insane!
Black Mirror and its episodes are not eligible for any imdb lists and never have been (for a brief time Black Mirror was listed as a miniseries on imdb and may have been eligible as a whole for the miniseries list, but that has not been the case for a long time). The discussion we had about it was for 500<400 and Play for Today and American Masters and Independent Lens and all those have also always been eligible for 500<400.

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#4863

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 10th, 2020, 11:20 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 3:10 pm
And if we start allowing tv-shorts into the imdb list on icm, then shouldn't we also allow tv-movies in the other genre and decade lists to be consistent? There are different check and vote thresholds for the imdb lists, so I don't know which films would be eligible to be on each list, but here are the highest rated tv-movies with 400+ checks and 1000+votes. Among them, you'll see some notable titles that are already on multiple icm lists, but not on any imdb lists: The War Game, Sobache serdtse [Heart of a Dog], Edvard Munch, Style Wars, and the Up Series (except 7 Up, since it's only 40 minutes imdb considers it a short instead of a feature), and a bunch more (including a bunch of Christmas movies).
Docs are not eligible for the genre and decade lists, so most of those wouldn't count. And most lists are 1500+ Checks, which reduces the relevant films to Rudolph on the Animation list. The War Game would be just out on the War list and 1960s lists. I think that's it unless I missed a sport film or western in the 400 check list.

The docs there are all already eligible for the imdb docs list. Only 9/11 is actually on the list, though.

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#4864

Post by WalterNeff » August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am

You know what list doesn't have to worry about TV movies? Pre-Code.

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#4865

Post by mjf314 » August 11th, 2020, 1:36 am

WalterNeff wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am
You know what list doesn't have to worry about TV movies? Pre-Code.
What about TV documentaries about pre-code? Like this one for example: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365076/

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#4866

Post by WalterNeff » August 11th, 2020, 1:54 am

mjf314 wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:36 am
WalterNeff wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am
You know what list doesn't have to worry about TV movies? Pre-Code.
What about TV documentaries about pre-code? Like this one for example: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365076/
When we are discussing documentary lists, let me know.

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#4867

Post by xianjiro » August 11th, 2020, 4:31 am

WalterNeff wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:54 am
mjf314 wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:36 am
WalterNeff wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am
You know what list doesn't have to worry about TV movies? Pre-Code.
What about TV documentaries about pre-code? Like this one for example: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365076/
When we are discussing documentary lists, let me know.
that's one for the watchlist :thumbsup:

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#4868

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 9:51 am

jeroeno wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 5:53 pm
Just came across this because it was shared on a certain private torrent site. Might be a cool addition to ICM:

The Collection of Central Asian Documentary Films AKA Documentary Films of Central Asia
SpoilerShow
This set was released ca. 2006 by Public Fund Center of Central Asian Cinematography with the assistance of the Open Society Institute, in an effort to spread appreciation of Central Asian filmmaking and understanding of the nations and peoples of Central Asia. It was released to diplomatic and educational institutions.

The set includes the following 10 DVDs:

Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence -
Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Tajik Documentary Films of Independence -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence -
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence
Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence
The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs



Which each DVD contains several short films as listed below:


Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Tayna raskrytoy ladoni AKA The Mystery of Open Palm [1968] by Oraz Abishev

Prikosnoveniye k vechnosti AKA Touching the Eternity [1966] by Ararat Mashanov

Kamshat [1975] by Asya Suleeva

Neobkhodima fotografia AKA Photo is Necessary [1975] by Yuryi Piskunov

Interval [1982] by Sergey Azimov

Gorod i smog AKA City and Smog [1984] by Vladimir Tatenko

Stseny u fontana AKA Scenes at the Fountain [1986] by Igor Gonopolskyi

Budu zaschischatsya sam AKA I Will Advocate Myself [1987] by Vladimir Tyulkin

Kumshagalskaya istoriya AKA Kumshagal Story [1987] by Igor Vovnyanko


Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence

Nevada-Kazakhstan [1989] by Sergey Sharif

Zhana-Arka [1991] by Ersain Abrakhmanov

Khronika neobyavlennoy demonstratsyi AKA Chronicle of Undeclared Demonstration [1991] by Asya Baigozhina and Naana Chankova

Domusulmanskiye obryady i verovaniya kazakhov AKA Kazakh Pre-Muslim Ceremonies and Religious Faiths [1993] by Bakhyt Kayirkebov

Schatsye AKA Paradise [1995] by Sergey Dvortsevoy


Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Pribytiye poezda AKA The Arrival of the Train to Dushanbe [1929] by V. Kuzin and N. Gezulin and A. Shevich

Kolybelnaya AKA Lullaby [1966] by Davlat Khudonazarov

12 kilometrov puti AKA 12 Kilometers of Road [1973] by Bako Sadykov

Galla (zerna) AKA Cereals [1982] by Mayram Yusupova

Adonis XIV [1986] by Bako Sadykov

Zhakon AKA A Sight at Yourself [1986] by Safarbek Soliyev

Taifun Tamara AKA Typhoon Tamara [1986] by Pulat Akhmatov

Kobus (Tabak) AKA Tobacco [1988] by Safarbek Soliyev

Litso AKA Face [1989] by Mayram Yusupova

Kosai davr (chasha vremeni) AKA Cup of Time [1999] by Gulyandom Mukhabbhatova and Daler Rakhmatov


Tajik Documentary Films of Independence

Khoki Vatan (Zemlya Rodiny) AKA Ancestry's Country [1993] by Orzu Sharipov

Posira AKA This Life [1999] by Nosyr Rakhmonov and Safar Khakdodov

Komandirovka AKA The Business Trip [1998] by Mayram Yusupova

11.000 km. ot Nyu-Yorka AKA 11.000 km. from New York [2006] by Orzu Sharipov

Novaya Penelopa AKA New Penelope [2006] by Georgyi Dzalaev and Alovuddin Addulloev


Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Khudaibergen Devonov [1970] by S. Davlatov

Uchitel AKA Teacher [1972] by N. Ataullayeva

Podvig Tashkenta AKA The Feat of Tashkent [1975] by Ali Khamraev

Parandzha AKA Yashmak [1977] by Malik Kayumov

Aralkum [1987] by B. Muzopharov

Muzhchiny. Muzhchiny! Muzhchiny? AKA Men. Men! Men? [1987] by D. Salymov


Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence

Karakul AKA Black Ashes [1997] by Shukhrat Makhmutov

Sotvorenie AKA Creation [2001] by R. Ibrokhimov

Kolodets AKA The Well [2003] by Turnyaz Kalymbetov

Akhmad Yassaviy [2004] by Dzakhongir Kasymov

Pervaya ostanovka AKA The First Stop [2006] by Shukhrat Makhmutov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Manaschi [1965] by Bolotbek Shamshiev

Eto loshadi AKA There Are Horses [1965] by Tolomush Okeyev

Mys gnedogo skakuna AKA Cape of the Bay Runner [1966] by Yzya Gershtein

Sluzhu Sovetskomu Soyuzu AKA I Serve the Soviet Union [1966] by Melis Ubukeyev

Zamki na peske AKA Castles on the Sand [1967] by Yakov Bronshtein and Algis Vidugiris

Boom [1969] by Tolomush Okeyev

Pochta AKA The Post [1972] by Bekesh Abdylayev

Kochevye kosmonavta AKA Cosmonaut's Nomad Encampment [1982] by Shamil Dzhaparov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence

Bezhala sobaka AKA The Dog was Running [1990] by Aktan Abdykalykov and Erkin Ryspaev

Vysokiy bereg AKA High Shore [1991] by Asan Aitykeyev

Chyortov most AKA The Devil's Bridge [1997] by Temirbek Birnazarov

Kochmon AKA Nomad's Encampment [1998] by Tynai Ibragimov

Alhambra [2001] by Ernest Abdyzhaparov

Asyl [2004] by Lyudmila Grebenshikova and Anara Birismanova

Vniz s sedmogo etazha AKA Crash Down from the Seventh Floor [2006] by Dalmira Tilepbegenova

Sosedi AKA Neighbours [2007] by Tynai Ibragimov

Ya hochu zhit AKA I Want to Live [2007] by Nargiza Mamatkulova


Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence

Kolodets AKA The Well Builders [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Drug chabana AKA Shepherd's Friend [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Istoriya odnogo pobega AKA The Story of One Run [1986] by Murad Alyiev

Aura [1987] by Murad Alyiev

Spasite pustyniu AKA Save the Desert [1988] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Filmy Velmurada Ovezova AKA Films of Velmurad Ovezov [1990]


The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs

Povelitel Mukh AKA Lord of the Flies [1990] by Vladimir Tyulkin
All of these films have English subtitles and are available on that set (or on certain private trackers).
This was discussed briefly in the UNESCO list discussion thread, as there are a couple of Kazakhstani films from that list in this collection, including a few that weren't previously available with English subtitles. I have the Two Kazakh collections, but half of the films don't have imdb entries. I don't mind creating such a list, as Central Asia is one of my regional interests, but it'll take me some time to properly add all of the films to imdb so I can import them to icm (and my OCD will make me want to update all the existing entries extensively). I'll start with what I have, and I can work on adding the other ones later (likely Jan/Feb 2021...).

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#4869

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 10:14 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 11:20 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 3:10 pm
And if we start allowing tv-shorts into the imdb list on icm, then shouldn't we also allow tv-movies in the other genre and decade lists to be consistent? There are different check and vote thresholds for the imdb lists, so I don't know which films would be eligible to be on each list, but here are the highest rated tv-movies with 400+ checks and 1000+votes. Among them, you'll see some notable titles that are already on multiple icm lists, but not on any imdb lists: The War Game, Sobache serdtse [Heart of a Dog], Edvard Munch, Style Wars, and the Up Series (except 7 Up, since it's only 40 minutes imdb considers it a short instead of a feature), and a bunch more (including a bunch of Christmas movies).
Docs are not eligible for the genre and decade lists, so most of those wouldn't count. And most lists are 1500+ Checks, which reduces the relevant films to Rudolph on the Animation list. The War Game would be just out on the War list and 1960s lists. I think that's it unless I missed a sport film or western in the 400 check list.

The docs there are all already eligible for the imdb docs list. Only 9/11 is actually on the list, though.
If we already allow for TV movies to be eligible for the imdb docs list (and yes, to answer your earlier question, we're only discussing the imdb lists [excluding the Top 250 since that's a separate beast]), then I would be in favour of allowing TV movies to be eligible for the other genre and decade lists. And yes, while the current check threshold may only impact a few titles now, I think we need to make an informed decision knowing that eventually more titles will cross that threshold. We should be making a decision based on the long term, not just what's currently affected; I don't want to have the same discussion every time a new TV Movie crosses the check threshold.

Aside from Rudolph & The War Game (and the shorts mentioned in a previous post), possible future entries to the imdb lists include...
Heart of a Dog - 769 checks, on Empire Russia & ICM Most Favorited
The Very Same Munchhausen - 432 checks, on the same two lists
Temple Grandin - 1394 checks, on 0 official lists
Edvard Munch - 784 checks, on 8 official lists, including ICM Most Favorited and TSPDT
Prayers for Bobby - 666 checks, on 0 official lists
A Muppet Family Christmas - 1116 checks, on 0 official lists
La classe américaine - 418 checks, on Time Out's French & ICM Most Favorited
Threads - 813 checks, on DTC, TSZDT, & ICM Most Favorited

I didn't expect so much overlap with the Most Favorited list.

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#4870

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 11th, 2020, 4:47 pm

Whatever I may think of those films, they're all actual films so yeah I don't really have an issue with making TV movies eligible. We'd have to change all the links though so I don't know how long it will take to make a change.

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#4871

Post by Fergenaprido » August 12th, 2020, 2:06 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 9:51 am
jeroeno wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 5:53 pm
Just came across this because it was shared on a certain private torrent site. Might be a cool addition to ICM:

The Collection of Central Asian Documentary Films AKA Documentary Films of Central Asia
SpoilerShow
This set was released ca. 2006 by Public Fund Center of Central Asian Cinematography with the assistance of the Open Society Institute, in an effort to spread appreciation of Central Asian filmmaking and understanding of the nations and peoples of Central Asia. It was released to diplomatic and educational institutions.

The set includes the following 10 DVDs:

Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence -
Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Tajik Documentary Films of Independence -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch -
Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence -
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch
Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence
Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence
The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs



Which each DVD contains several short films as listed below:


Kazakh Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Tayna raskrytoy ladoni AKA The Mystery of Open Palm [1968] by Oraz Abishev

Prikosnoveniye k vechnosti AKA Touching the Eternity [1966] by Ararat Mashanov

Kamshat [1975] by Asya Suleeva

Neobkhodima fotografia AKA Photo is Necessary [1975] by Yuryi Piskunov

Interval [1982] by Sergey Azimov

Gorod i smog AKA City and Smog [1984] by Vladimir Tatenko

Stseny u fontana AKA Scenes at the Fountain [1986] by Igor Gonopolskyi

Budu zaschischatsya sam AKA I Will Advocate Myself [1987] by Vladimir Tyulkin

Kumshagalskaya istoriya AKA Kumshagal Story [1987] by Igor Vovnyanko


Kazakh Documentary Films of Independence

Nevada-Kazakhstan [1989] by Sergey Sharif

Zhana-Arka [1991] by Ersain Abrakhmanov

Khronika neobyavlennoy demonstratsyi AKA Chronicle of Undeclared Demonstration [1991] by Asya Baigozhina and Naana Chankova

Domusulmanskiye obryady i verovaniya kazakhov AKA Kazakh Pre-Muslim Ceremonies and Religious Faiths [1993] by Bakhyt Kayirkebov

Schatsye AKA Paradise [1995] by Sergey Dvortsevoy


Tajik Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Pribytiye poezda AKA The Arrival of the Train to Dushanbe [1929] by V. Kuzin and N. Gezulin and A. Shevich

Kolybelnaya AKA Lullaby [1966] by Davlat Khudonazarov

12 kilometrov puti AKA 12 Kilometers of Road [1973] by Bako Sadykov

Galla (zerna) AKA Cereals [1982] by Mayram Yusupova

Adonis XIV [1986] by Bako Sadykov

Zhakon AKA A Sight at Yourself [1986] by Safarbek Soliyev

Taifun Tamara AKA Typhoon Tamara [1986] by Pulat Akhmatov

Kobus (Tabak) AKA Tobacco [1988] by Safarbek Soliyev

Litso AKA Face [1989] by Mayram Yusupova

Kosai davr (chasha vremeni) AKA Cup of Time [1999] by Gulyandom Mukhabbhatova and Daler Rakhmatov


Tajik Documentary Films of Independence

Khoki Vatan (Zemlya Rodiny) AKA Ancestry's Country [1993] by Orzu Sharipov

Posira AKA This Life [1999] by Nosyr Rakhmonov and Safar Khakdodov

Komandirovka AKA The Business Trip [1998] by Mayram Yusupova

11.000 km. ot Nyu-Yorka AKA 11.000 km. from New York [2006] by Orzu Sharipov

Novaya Penelopa AKA New Penelope [2006] by Georgyi Dzalaev and Alovuddin Addulloev


Uzbek Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Khudaibergen Devonov [1970] by S. Davlatov

Uchitel AKA Teacher [1972] by N. Ataullayeva

Podvig Tashkenta AKA The Feat of Tashkent [1975] by Ali Khamraev

Parandzha AKA Yashmak [1977] by Malik Kayumov

Aralkum [1987] by B. Muzopharov

Muzhchiny. Muzhchiny! Muzhchiny? AKA Men. Men! Men? [1987] by D. Salymov


Uzbek Documentary Films of Independence

Karakul AKA Black Ashes [1997] by Shukhrat Makhmutov

Sotvorenie AKA Creation [2001] by R. Ibrokhimov

Kolodets AKA The Well [2003] by Turnyaz Kalymbetov

Akhmad Yassaviy [2004] by Dzakhongir Kasymov

Pervaya ostanovka AKA The First Stop [2006] by Shukhrat Makhmutov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch

Manaschi [1965] by Bolotbek Shamshiev

Eto loshadi AKA There Are Horses [1965] by Tolomush Okeyev

Mys gnedogo skakuna AKA Cape of the Bay Runner [1966] by Yzya Gershtein

Sluzhu Sovetskomu Soyuzu AKA I Serve the Soviet Union [1966] by Melis Ubukeyev

Zamki na peske AKA Castles on the Sand [1967] by Yakov Bronshtein and Algis Vidugiris

Boom [1969] by Tolomush Okeyev

Pochta AKA The Post [1972] by Bekesh Abdylayev

Kochevye kosmonavta AKA Cosmonaut's Nomad Encampment [1982] by Shamil Dzhaparov


Kyrgyz Documentary Films of Independence

Bezhala sobaka AKA The Dog was Running [1990] by Aktan Abdykalykov and Erkin Ryspaev

Vysokiy bereg AKA High Shore [1991] by Asan Aitykeyev

Chyortov most AKA The Devil's Bridge [1997] by Temirbek Birnazarov

Kochmon AKA Nomad's Encampment [1998] by Tynai Ibragimov

Alhambra [2001] by Ernest Abdyzhaparov

Asyl [2004] by Lyudmila Grebenshikova and Anara Birismanova

Vniz s sedmogo etazha AKA Crash Down from the Seventh Floor [2006] by Dalmira Tilepbegenova

Sosedi AKA Neighbours [2007] by Tynai Ibragimov

Ya hochu zhit AKA I Want to Live [2007] by Nargiza Mamatkulova


Turkmen Documentary Films of Soviet Epoch and Independence

Kolodets AKA The Well Builders [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Drug chabana AKA Shepherd's Friend [1972] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Istoriya odnogo pobega AKA The Story of One Run [1986] by Murad Alyiev

Aura [1987] by Murad Alyiev

Spasite pustyniu AKA Save the Desert [1988] by Sapar Mollanyazov

Filmy Velmurada Ovezova AKA Films of Velmurad Ovezov [1990]


The Lord of the Flies: Film on the Border of Epochs

Povelitel Mukh AKA Lord of the Flies [1990] by Vladimir Tyulkin
All of these films have English subtitles and are available on that set (or on certain private trackers).
This was discussed briefly in the UNESCO list discussion thread, as there are a couple of Kazakhstani films from that list in this collection, including a few that weren't previously available with English subtitles. I have the Two Kazakh collections, but half of the films don't have imdb entries. I don't mind creating such a list, as Central Asia is one of my regional interests, but it'll take me some time to properly add all of the films to imdb so I can import them to icm (and my OCD will make me want to update all the existing entries extensively). I'll start with what I have, and I can work on adding the other ones later (likely Jan/Feb 2021...).
I've started the list here: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/docu ... genaprido/

I'll add to it gradually over time. I also looked for more information on where to get these DVDs, and found that they also released a fiction collection. Link 1 and Link 2. The collection is over a decade old, so no idea if they have copies still, but since they don't sell them to individuals, maybe once we get the magazine up and running we could request a copy for the organization. :D

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#4872

Post by dirty_score » August 18th, 2020, 12:58 pm

This one is a longshot but perfect for people who like their lists 1000+.
The Rough Guide to Cult Movies

This is also from BFI, could be a suitable replacement/companion to the BFI 100 Musicals.
BFI: The best musical of every year – from the dawn of sound to the rise of the jukebox musical

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#4873

Post by PGonzalez » August 18th, 2020, 1:19 pm

dirty_score wrote:
August 18th, 2020, 12:58 pm
This one is a longshot but perfect for people who like their lists 1000+.
The Rough Guide to Cult Movies

This is also from BFI, could be a suitable replacement/companion to the BFI 100 Musicals.
BFI: The best musical of every year – from the dawn of sound to the rise of the jukebox musical

The first one includes so much stuff that it ends up rendering the concept of "cult" as something quite meaningless (The Dark knight? The Lord of the Rings?).
I quite like the second one, though there seems to be a mistake in there (the 2015 Office should probably be To's). Still, quite a fun list!

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#4874

Post by dirty_score » August 18th, 2020, 2:19 pm

PGonzalez wrote:
August 18th, 2020, 1:19 pm
dirty_score wrote:
August 18th, 2020, 12:58 pm
This one is a longshot but perfect for people who like their lists 1000+.
The Rough Guide to Cult Movies

This is also from BFI, could be a suitable replacement/companion to the BFI 100 Musicals.
BFI: The best musical of every year – from the dawn of sound to the rise of the jukebox musical

The first one includes so much stuff that it ends up rendering the concept of "cult" as something quite meaningless (The Dark knight? The Lord of the Rings?).
I quite like the second one, though there seems to be a mistake in there (the 2015 Office should probably be To's). Still, quite a fun list!
Honestly, I only took a better look at the films I haven't seen so I didn't notice those 2. My only concern was that the author misuses the term "genre" with categories or themes but in the actual genre lists there are quite interesting movie selections.

Regarding the musical list you're right, the source list points to To's film. The ICM's list author must have confused.

I also took a better look at the list and in the end they put a question mark on 2019 but with a screenshot of Rocketman (maybe the best selection out of Aladdin, Frozen 2, Guava Island or... Cats?) even though it was updated this year while giving the spot to this year's West Side Story remake.

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#4875

Post by dirty_score » August 22nd, 2020, 1:30 pm

The ICM martial arts list could use an update:
Paste's 100 Best Martial Arts Movies of All Time

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#4876

Post by Lonewolf2003 » August 22nd, 2020, 3:19 pm

dirty_score wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 1:30 pm
The ICM martial arts list could use an update:
Paste's 100 Best Martial Arts Movies of All Time
Thanks. I was aware of that list. I will discuss with my fellow mods if we should replace it.

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#4877

Post by Onderhond » August 22nd, 2020, 3:28 pm

Looks like a serious downgrade to me? I mean... TMNT?

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#4878

Post by dirty_score » August 22nd, 2020, 4:37 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 3:28 pm
Looks like a serious downgrade to me? I mean... TMNT?
Can you provide a better and fresher list? This is the only one I could find with a possibility of getting official.

It's not perfect, especially towards the end but Paste has a tendency to update their lists.

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#4879

Post by Onderhond » August 22nd, 2020, 4:42 pm

dirty_score wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 4:37 pm
Can you provide a better and fresher list? This is the only one I could find with a possibility of getting official.
Afraid I can't, but I'm never really on the look-out for lists myself.

It's nice that Paste updates their list, but I think the actual quality of the list matters too, and the current one seems more in line with the expectations of the genre.

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#4880

Post by sol » August 22nd, 2020, 4:52 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 4:42 pm
It's nice that Paste updates their list, but I think the actual quality of the list matters too, and the current one seems more in line with the expectations of the genre.
I have to agree with that.

I wouldn't like to see the current list replaced by the Paste list, but I wouldn't mind both being Official. Why can't we have two official Martial Arts lists?
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