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New Official List Discussion

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Teproc
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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4281

Post by Teproc » March 4th, 2020, 9:59 am

Animation definitely isn't the most important genre in cinema history, mostly beacause it's not a genre.

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#4282

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 10:01 am

Teproc wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 9:59 am
Animation definitely isn't the most important genre in cinema history, mostly beacause it's not a genre.
1 point for Teproc.

I do agree that there are some weird animation lists official though. It would hurt to see the Cartoons list go because I've been working on that this past month (a pretty painful experience), but I find it extremely difficult to defend the status of that one. I also don't think there's a need for more animation lists right now.

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#4283

Post by jal90 » March 4th, 2020, 10:05 am

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 9:50 am
Exactly how many new anime/animation lists do you need? There are arguably already too many. Please stop treating animation like it was the best and historically most important genre in cinema history, because it isn't. When is something gonna be done about the lack of critic lists?
It's certainly better than you are giving credit for, because as a medium it predates film itself. Other than that, there are... 6? official lists about animation out of 199, this is far from an overabundance.

It would be cool to have more critics lists though. I don't know what's the point at eliminating official lists instead of adding more. The more of them, the more fun the website is for the users.

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#4284

Post by List Promoter » March 4th, 2020, 10:07 am

Sorry; should have said "genre" or medium or cinematic technique or whatever. But you know deep inside that animation is getting special treatment by admins/moderators (whereas critic lists are mocked at)

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#4285

Post by Teproc » March 4th, 2020, 10:17 am

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:07 am
Sorry; should have said "genre" or medium or cinematic technique or whatever. But you know deep inside that animation is getting special treatment by admins/moderators (whereas critic lists are mocked at)
I feel like animation is appropriately represented really, but I'm really confused as to what you mean by critics lists being mocked at... isn't that like 90% of official lists ?

I mean, the "Institutes" tab is basically made of critics lists aggregated. Same with the Websites tab. Do you mean lists specific to one critic like Rosenbaum, Maltin etc ?

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#4286

Post by List Promoter » March 4th, 2020, 10:18 am

Just take a look in the critics tab and see how relatively few lists are in there

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#4287

Post by Panunzio » March 4th, 2020, 10:26 am

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm
Seriously, do we still need lists like The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema or Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen (this type of buzzfeed lists you see all around the web)?
Yes? I think they're both fantastic lists, the 100 Best Films of World Cinema especially. It gives a great introduction to world cinema for users that don't often tread outside of Hollywood. I would actually love to see more similar lists adopted.

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#4288

Post by erde » March 4th, 2020, 10:35 am

Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:26 am
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm
Seriously, do we still need lists like The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema or Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen (this type of buzzfeed lists you see all around the web)?
Yes? I think they're both fantastic lists, the 100 Best Films of World Cinema especially. It gives a great introduction to world cinema for users that don't often tread outside of Hollywood. I would actually love to see more similar lists adopted.
I tend to think similarly: different types of official lists serve different users. For example, I think that this is a great, relatively new critic-sourced top 100 list of world cinema with a great voter base: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/bbc+ ... /gershwin/
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#4289

Post by Gershwin » March 4th, 2020, 11:59 am

erde wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:35 am
Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:26 am
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm
Seriously, do we still need lists like The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema or Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen (this type of buzzfeed lists you see all around the web)?
Yes? I think they're both fantastic lists, the 100 Best Films of World Cinema especially. It gives a great introduction to world cinema for users that don't often tread outside of Hollywood. I would actually love to see more similar lists adopted.
I tend to think similarly: different types of official lists serve different users. For example, I think that this is a great, relatively new critic-sourced top 100 list of world cinema with a great voter base: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/bbc+ ... /gershwin/
So do I. Still waiting for the adoption request though. :sweat:
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#4290

Post by Panunzio » March 4th, 2020, 12:00 pm

erde wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:35 am
Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:26 am
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm
Seriously, do we still need lists like The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema or Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen (this type of buzzfeed lists you see all around the web)?
Yes? I think they're both fantastic lists, the 100 Best Films of World Cinema especially. It gives a great introduction to world cinema for users that don't often tread outside of Hollywood. I would actually love to see more similar lists adopted.
I tend to think similarly: different types of official lists serve different users. For example, I think that this is a great, relatively new critic-sourced top 100 list of world cinema with a great voter base: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/bbc+ ... /gershwin/
Yes! That's exactly the sort of list I'm talking about! It would sit really well alongside the Empire list.

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#4291

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 12:09 pm

I get the need for entry-level lists, but seeing the official counts of most of the movies on there, you could argue that these films have been covered enough already. So it would be just the regrouping/scoping that could make the list interesting? Feels like it adds very little to the ones we already have.

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#4292

Post by dirty_score » March 4th, 2020, 12:42 pm

We just recently adapted one big ass latin list (why 200+ titles?) but I'm surprised to see that Colombia hasn't been considered for the next official country https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/sema ... ma/mjf314/


Anyway, when can we expect the new lists?

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#4293

Post by Panunzio » March 4th, 2020, 1:03 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:09 pm
I get the need for entry-level lists, but seeing the official counts of most of the movies on there, you could argue that these films have been covered enough already. So it would be just the regrouping/scoping that could make the list interesting? Feels like it adds very little to the ones we already have.
I often look for new films based on the number (and type) of official lists it appears on. The more official lists, the stronger the recommendation. It make sense that the somewhat smaller lists (~100 titles or fewer) tend towards canonical films, but that's hardly a reason to discount a list -- especially when it provides a good entry point to a theme, movement, or genre.

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#4294

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 1:28 pm

Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:03 pm
I often look for new films based on the number (and type) of official lists it appears on. The more official lists, the stronger the recommendation. It make sense that the somewhat smaller lists (~100 titles or fewer) tend towards canonical films, but that's hardly a reason to discount a list -- especially when it provides a good entry point to a theme, movement, or genre.
I do it too, but my argument is that these are already covered, and additional lists like that will provide very little added value, apart from boosting the numbers of films that are already extremely represented on ICM.

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#4295

Post by WalterNeff » March 4th, 2020, 1:49 pm

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 9:50 am
Exactly how many new anime/animation lists do you need? There are arguably already too many. Please stop treating animation like it was the best and historically most important genre in cinema history, because it isn't. When is something gonna be done about the lack of critic lists?
We all know the two most important genres are Film Noir and Pre-Code.

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#4296

Post by erde » March 4th, 2020, 1:58 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:28 pm
Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:03 pm
I often look for new films based on the number (and type) of official lists it appears on. The more official lists, the stronger the recommendation. It make sense that the somewhat smaller lists (~100 titles or fewer) tend towards canonical films, but that's hardly a reason to discount a list -- especially when it provides a good entry point to a theme, movement, or genre.
I do it too, but my argument is that these are already covered, and additional lists like that will provide very little added value, apart from boosting the numbers of films that are already extremely represented on ICM.
I think that packaging the checks into manageable portions is a value in itself. For example, I found it much more motivating to complete a few top 100 and 250 lists (sort of intermediate goals) before tackling the TSPDT 1000 - let alone TSPDT 2000! - than targeting the big list straight up.
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#4297

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 2:04 pm

erde wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:58 pm
I think that packaging the checks into manageable portions is a value in itself. For example, I found it much more motivating to complete a few top 100 and 250 lists (sort of intermediate goals) before tackling the TSPDT 1000 - let alone TSPDT 2000! - than targeting the big list straight up.
I'm sure there's a mental aspect to it that makes it easier, but how far do you have to go with that? Start by tackling the Top 250 of TPSDT if you struggle with that. If some "virtual badge" is going to make the difference, you could wonder how invested one really is.

With only 4 lists/cycle added, do you really want to give up a spot for that?

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#4298

Post by erde » March 4th, 2020, 2:28 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 2:04 pm
erde wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:58 pm
I think that packaging the checks into manageable portions is a value in itself. For example, I found it much more motivating to complete a few top 100 and 250 lists (sort of intermediate goals) before tackling the TSPDT 1000 - let alone TSPDT 2000! - than targeting the big list straight up.
I'm sure there's a mental aspect to it that makes it easier, but how far do you have to go with that? Start by tackling the Top 250 of TPSDT if you struggle with that. If some "virtual badge" is going to make the difference, you could wonder how invested one really is.

With only 4 lists/cycle added, do you really want to give up a spot for that?
It doesn't make a difference, of course, but it does provide different emphasis and perspectives to the canon(s) etc., thus serving different types of users and uses of the site. Also, I admit that it does help me mentally, as you say, by providing short and long term goals of different sizes. But that, of course, is not the main point, and everyone can make all sorts of sub-lists by themselves if they so wish (TSPDT 100, 250, 500 etc.).
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#4299

Post by Darth Nevets » March 4th, 2020, 3:25 pm

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 9:50 am
Exactly how many new anime/animation lists do you need? There are arguably already too many. Please stop treating animation like it was the best and historically most important genre in cinema history, because it isn't. When is something gonna be done about the lack of critic lists?
This is a rather myopic views. The third biggest critic in America's third biggest city has a list of 1133 films of which 235 he makes official. The five animation lists only officialize 167 films, even with overlap he alone has more weight. Not only that but most critics have mega lists, whereas directors can only get 100 level lists. Not only that critics basically compose many of the other lists foundations (TSPDT and S&S).

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#4300

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 7:05 pm

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:07 am
Sorry; should have said "genre" or medium or cinematic technique or whatever. But you know deep inside that animation is getting special treatment by admins/moderators (whereas critic lists are mocked at)
Did I hear a collective cough of "bull shit"? :cowbow:

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#4301

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 7:08 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:42 pm
We just recently adapted one big ass latin list (why 200+ titles?) but I'm surprised to see that Colombia hasn't been considered for the next official country https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/sema ... ma/mjf314/


Anyway, when can we expect the new lists?
How do you know it hasn't? Do you have special insight into the conversations of the site owner & moderation team?

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#4302

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 7:18 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 2:04 pm
erde wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:58 pm
I think that packaging the checks into manageable portions is a value in itself. For example, I found it much more motivating to complete a few top 100 and 250 lists (sort of intermediate goals) before tackling the TSPDT 1000 - let alone TSPDT 2000! - than targeting the big list straight up.
I'm sure there's a mental aspect to it that makes it easier, but how far do you have to go with that? Start by tackling the Top 250 of TPSDT if you struggle with that. If some "virtual badge" is going to make the difference, you could wonder how invested one really is.

With only 4 lists/cycle added, do you really want to give up a spot for that?
I don't get a lot of completion in my daily life: there's always more laundry and dishes that need washing. So personally, I like the sense of accomplishment I get from completing a list I found interesting and informative (Ebert was a big one for me).

But that said, I also hate that something like Action A-Z is static and left back in the last century. Sure, I can complete it, but I don't care enough about the genre to do that. Does anyone know of a good Action list that covers the time since? I wouldn't mind working through it halfway, even if it's unofficial. (And of course I'm always done almost done with IMDb Action)

So, even though I like a sense of completion some places, I don't really like it in others and appreciate the yearly update to 21st Century. The best things I've watched of late have been from that (though I don't claim to be great, canonical films, just great recent watches).

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#4303

Post by mjf314 » March 4th, 2020, 7:51 pm

xianjiro wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:18 pm
But that said, I also hate that something like Action A-Z is static and left back in the last century. Sure, I can complete it, but I don't care enough about the genre to do that. Does anyone know of a good Action list that covers the time since? I wouldn't mind working through it halfway, even if it's unofficial. (And of course I'm always done almost done with IMDb Action)
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... norroboto/

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#4304

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 8:58 pm

mjf314 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:51 pm
xianjiro wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:18 pm
But that said, I also hate that something like Action A-Z is static and left back in the last century. Sure, I can complete it, but I don't care enough about the genre to do that. Does anyone know of a good Action list that covers the time since? I wouldn't mind working through it halfway, even if it's unofficial. (And of course I'm always done almost done with IMDb Action)
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... norroboto/
Cool! Thanks for that recommendation. Will favorite it and work that in the near future.

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#4305

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 9:30 pm

Some truly weird entries in that list, but at least they were nice enough to include some martial arts films.

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#4306

Post by erde » March 14th, 2020, 2:47 pm

Some hints about the forthcoming official lists (besides the TSPDT top 1001-2000)? A little quiz would be a nice distraction. :whistling:

Also, any news about the schedule? :woot:
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#4307

Post by Gershwin » March 14th, 2020, 6:02 pm

I know someone who got an adoption request. :whistling:
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#4308

Post by erde » March 15th, 2020, 10:31 am

The plot thickens! :circle:
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#4309

Post by xianjiro » March 15th, 2020, 9:43 pm

Gershwin wrote:
March 14th, 2020, 6:02 pm
I know someone who got an adoption request. :whistling:
really :poshclap:

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#4310

Post by jeroeno » March 16th, 2020, 8:21 am

Yeah let's hurry up with those lists. For those of us who are forced to stay at home for the next weeks....

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#4311

Post by joachimt » March 16th, 2020, 8:35 am

Marijn still has to create the icons. Not sure how occupied he is with work and family right now due to recent events. Staying at home doesn't mean more time for iCM/movies for everyone. Marijn's kids have to stay home as well now, so I guess that could keep him busy.
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#4312

Post by jeroeno » March 16th, 2020, 10:43 am

Surely you can share which new lists wil be added before Marijn creates the icons?

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#4313

Post by sol » March 16th, 2020, 11:02 am

The more important question in all this is whether flaiky finally received an adoption request. :think:
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#4314

Post by Gershwin » March 16th, 2020, 10:40 pm

Well, one of my country lists is going to be adopted. Could have been long time ago.
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#4315

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 17th, 2020, 4:23 am

I didn't get an adoption request but I think everyone knows which one of my lists is being adopted.

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#4316

Post by jeroeno » March 17th, 2020, 8:55 am

Gershwin wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:40 pm
Well, one of my country lists is going to be adopted. Could have been long time ago.
I'm guessing Pinoy is finally getting the official status?

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#4317

Post by sol » March 17th, 2020, 11:51 am

Gershwin wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:40 pm
Well, one of my country lists is going to be adopted. Could have been long time ago.
Fingers crossed for the Israeli list. We could really do with that.
jeroeno wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 8:21 am
Yeah let's hurry up with those lists. For those of us who are forced to stay at home for the next weeks....
Well, you already know about TSP 1001-2000, so just spend the next four weeks finishing that -- and every film in every single list that Gershwin has created. Just in case. Plenty of stuff to choose from. :)

If you feel adventurous, you could even try to polish off Oscar Best Documentary because I think I would be pretty hard for the mods to defend not adopting it in this most recent bunch. But I've learnt not to get my hopes up too high with this list despite how amazingly it performed in the poll. :unsure:
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#4318

Post by Panunzio » March 17th, 2020, 12:28 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 4:23 am
I didn't get an adoption request but I think everyone knows which one of my lists is being adopted.
Is it just the one, or is there a chance of the forum's 1001 sneaking in there as well?

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#4319

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 17th, 2020, 1:44 pm

Panunzio wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 12:28 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 4:23 am
I didn't get an adoption request but I think everyone knows which one of my lists is being adopted.
Is it just the one, or is there a chance of the forum's 1001 sneaking in there as well?
Just the one.

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#4320

Post by erde » March 17th, 2020, 1:57 pm

Gershwin wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:40 pm
Well, one of my country lists is going to be adopted. Could have been long time ago.
The name of the "Maariv's Best Israeli Films of All Time" top list has been converted to the new naming system of the official lists. Just saying... ;)
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