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New Official List Discussion

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xianjiro
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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4241

Post by xianjiro » January 23rd, 2020, 12:24 am

So, who wants to compile the list of all official checks from the US? Should only be about 1/2 to 2/3rds of official checks. After that, we could scrub all US entries in the db ...

I'm too busy doing other things to help with this project as just as it might be.

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#4242

Post by flavo5000 » January 26th, 2020, 3:59 pm

dirty_score wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 4:13 pm
We do really need more film festival/national awards lists to be official and I think should always be one among every new crop, because there's so much to choose from.

If there's one list that could really give a boost to 21st century films would be TSZDT. Horror has seen a renaissance lately and I'm suprised to see such movies like Mama, It Comes at Night, Halloween 2018, the iranian Under The Shadow, 10 Cloverfield Lane and The Neon Demon, just to name a few, not making the list whereas a lot of old garbage (b-movies, z-movies, dracula's movies, frankenstein movies, etc..) get the spotlight.
The nature of TSZDT is that, like TSPDT, the more general lists a horror movie appears on (Best Ever lists vs. Best of 2019) the higher it will appear on the list. So generally newer movies take a little while to show up on there unless it receives universal acclaim like Get Out. I think mighty usually does an update to the list around March/April timeframe to pull in any new lists that have been added in in the previous year including Best of 2019 lists. General consensus wins out.

Now having said all that, I know the algorithm to determine the list is always debated and mighty does adjustments on it in attempts to balance the list out (meaning how much weight do best of genre lists get vs best of year lists vs critic best lists, etc.) so if any of those aren't there now, they could be this time next year.

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#4243

Post by joachimt » January 26th, 2020, 4:20 pm

Every time I search for official checks on Netflix, I'm surprised how many 21st century horror crap are an official check.
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#4244

Post by Ebbywebby » January 26th, 2020, 9:38 pm

joachimt wrote:
January 26th, 2020, 4:20 pm
Every time I search for official checks on Netflix, I'm surprised how many 21st century horror crap are an official check.
YES. :(

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#4245

Post by Onderhond » January 26th, 2020, 9:42 pm

At least they kinda qualify as horror films. I watched some of those 40s Hammer flicks on the list :facepalm:

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#4246

Post by dirty_score » March 3rd, 2020, 12:15 pm

Is it too soon to start guessing or asking for hints on the upcoming batch of new lists?

As we approach 200 lists, I think it's time to evaluate if it's necessary to add more to the pile or replace older ones. I was surprised to see the female directors list replaced (In my opinion, the other was better), since it was a recent adoption and you guys are usually adamant to replacing lists (like the older spanish list that remains official).

Even though there's still so much to add to the awards/film festivals tab. Will these new additions affect the number of new lists in the upcoming batch? How many are you thinking?

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#4247

Post by beavis » March 3rd, 2020, 12:16 pm

there are 5 lists upcoming

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#4248

Post by sol » March 3rd, 2020, 12:38 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 12:15 pm
I was surprised to see the female directors list replaced (In my opinion, the other was better), since it was a recent adoption
This surprised me too. Personally, I would have preferred to have a poll about this (rather than whether to make TSP 1001-2000 its own list or not) and likewise, I preferred the eccentricities of the IW list that covered more than just the obvious candidates. That said, it's good step in the right direction that the list-mods are asking their (largely) paying userbase for opinions heading foward.
beavis wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 12:16 pm
there are 5 lists upcoming
I assume that means TSP 1001-2000 plus four others. Hopefully we'll see Oscar Best Documentary get its due. It definitely would be a sensible adoption since we should be trying to promote lists that general film buffs are interested in.
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#4249

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 2:38 pm

beavis wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 12:16 pm
there are 5 lists upcoming
At least give us some hints! :woot:

When can we expect these five new lists?
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#4250

Post by sol » March 3rd, 2020, 3:13 pm

If the four new ones are based on the previous poll, this is what we have to think about it:

1 Cannes Film Festival - Grand Prix (annual award) 3 2.40 96 22 Adopted
2 A Year With Women: 103 Essential Films By Female Filmmakers (2015) 36 2.34 109 35
Similar Adopted
3 Cannes Film Festival - Jury Prize (annual award) 12 2.21 89 28
4 Sight & Sound’s 75 Hidden Gems (2007) 2 2.18 93 23 Adopted
5 Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature winners (annual award) 6 2.09 84 30
6 European film award for best film (annual award) 8 2.07 85 35 Adopted
7 iCM Forum’s 1001 Favourite Movies (updated annually) 14 2.07 93 43
8 Sight and Sound Annual Best of the Year Polls (annual top 10 lists) 7 2.06 85 30
9 100 American Independent Films (BFI Screen Guides) (2009) 2 1.97 85 35 Adopted
10 They Shoot Pictures, Don’t They? 1001-2000 (updated annually) 11 1.94 81 43
Adopted

11 Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners (annual award) 2 1.92 84 47
12 Cinechile’s 50 Best Chilean Movies of All Time (2016) 4 1.90 66 28 Adopted
13 Little White Lies 100 Great Movies By Female Directors (2015) 4 1.88 75 43 Similar Adopted
14 100 Historical Film Masterpieces (1996) 8 1.81 58 29
15 101 Gangster Movies You Must See Before You Die (2009) 6 1.803 63 36 Adopted
16 100 Cult Films (BFI Screen Guides) (2011) 8 1.79 74 49
17 100 Road Movies (BFI Screen Guides) (2008) 2 1.79 69 34 Adopted
18 Black Film Canon (2016) 6 1.77 66 41
19 100 European Horror Films (BFI Screen Guides) (2007) 7 1.77 69 38
20 BFI’s 100 Thriller’s to See Before You Die (2017) 6 1.77 63 38

Full results: https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/poll ... icial/3353
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#4251

Post by dirty_score » March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm

Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition :thumbsup: but only if replaces "Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck"

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#4252

Post by sol » March 3rd, 2020, 3:51 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition
Gee, if that gets adopted and Best Documentary doesn't... :shrug:

I don't know how strongly I feel about the other contenders. I'm mixed on the our Top 1000 being adopted. On one hand, I think it makes perfect sense given how many other film forums with small user bases have their list as Official, and since we do more to promote iCM than any other online community, but if Pleasantville becomes the only new Official Check with the adoption it would be less exciting to me than other lists.
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#4253

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 4:24 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition :thumbsup: but only if replaces "Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck"
Adoption - yes. Replacement - NO! :guns:
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#4254

Post by dirty_score » March 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm

sol wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:51 pm
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition
Gee, if that gets adopted and Best Documentary doesn't... :shrug:

I don't know how strongly I feel about the other contenders. I'm mixed on the our Top 1000 being adopted. On one hand, I think it makes perfect sense given how many other film forums with small user bases have their list as Official, and since we do more to promote iCM than any other online community, but if Pleasantville becomes the only new Official Check with the adoption it would be less exciting to me than other lists.
Wait a minute, Pleasantville isn't a official check? :down: but even more 1000 lists? :yucky: I can see both of BFI lists making the cut.

Maybe even the Harvard experimental list. As for the new country list, I wish it would be a national award like David Di Donatello.
erde wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 4:24 pm
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition :thumbsup: but only if replaces "Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck"
Adoption - yes. Replacement - NO! :guns:
C'mon, people are so attached to that list because of nostalgia of having their first platinum. It's a dated list and the Academy list has better cartoons.

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#4255

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 5:06 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm
erde wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 4:24 pm
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition :thumbsup: but only if replaces "Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck"
Adoption - yes. Replacement - NO! :guns:
C'mon, people are so attached to that list because of nostalgia of having their first platinum. It's a dated list and the Academy list has better cartoons.
No, it's not. :folded:

But an additional list for animated shorts would be great!
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#4256

Post by Fergenaprido » March 3rd, 2020, 5:11 pm

I don't see a problem with the Best Cartoons Ever List. I also like the Oscar List.

On Jerry's List I have seen all 50 films (it was indeed my first platinum though I don't have any nostalgia about it lol), with 4 favourites and 4 dislikes.
On the Oscar Animated Short Winners List I have seen 78/88 films, with 9 favourites and 3 dislikes.

So, looks like I slightly prefer the Oscar list (though those 10 unseen films are more likely to be additional dislikes than likes), but I still think both are worthwhile :)

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#4257

Post by OldAle1 » March 3rd, 2020, 5:15 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 5:11 pm
I don't see a problem with the Best Cartoons Ever List. I also like the Oscar List.

On Jerry's List I have seen all 50 films (it was indeed my first platinum though I don't have any nostalgia about it lol), with 4 favourites and 4 dislikes.
On the Oscar Animated Short Winners List I have seen 78/88 films, with 9 favourites and 3 dislikes.

So, looks like I slightly prefer the Oscar list (though those 10 unseen films are more likely to be additional dislikes than likes), but I still think both are worthwhile :)
I have no dislikes on either list and a LOT of favorites, including a couple of films in my overall top 100. Guess I'm easy to please with animated shorts. And yeah, the Beck list was my first platinum - it was probably everybody's, excepting those who don't watch shorts/animation, or who had platinums immediately on importing their data to the site. I don't see any reason to drop it, and I'm fairly sure it has my highest favorites ratio of any list by a good margin.

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#4258

Post by OldAle1 » March 3rd, 2020, 5:17 pm

Oh and as to the potential new lists - not really excited about any of them. Maybe the Black film list, have to look at that. But my interest is almost totally in expanding the ground covered - mostly in terms of new country lists - rather than re-treading, which is what most of those lists represent to me. More Oscars, more Cannes, more horror... please, no.

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#4259

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 6:23 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 5:17 pm
Oh and as to the potential new lists - not really excited about any of them. Maybe the Black film list, have to look at that. But my interest is almost totally in expanding the ground covered - mostly in terms of new country lists - rather than re-treading, which is what most of those lists represent to me. More Oscars, more Cannes, more horror... please, no.
I think that the Cannes jury prize, as well as the Academy awards for docs and animation, are clear omissions at present and should be official. Also, in my opinion, there should be an official list for European film award nominees (similarly as with Oscars). Of different genres, romantic comedies are still notably absent, and action movies deserve a better list to complement the current one.
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#4260

Post by Nathan Treadway » March 3rd, 2020, 6:46 pm

If it was up to me, we'd see more country and regional awards lists added. There's still plenty to choose from in this regard.

Hold off on the genre and theme lists for now, please.

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#4261

Post by dirty_score » March 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 5:17 pm
Oh and as to the potential new lists - not really excited about any of them. Maybe the Black film list, have to look at that. But my interest is almost totally in expanding the ground covered - mostly in terms of new country lists - rather than re-treading, which is what most of those lists represent to me. More Oscars, more Cannes, more horror... please, no.
Agreed, the black list has some potencial and a way for people to explore movies made from african/african-american directors.

another cannes list would be a letdown considering that are more interesting film festivals. that european horror wouldn't add anything since most of the movies on that list are covered by TSZDT ("but a smaller list (like noir did) might highlight some of those movies" excuse is BS).


Seriously, do we still need lists like The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema or Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen (this type of buzzfeed lists you see all around the web)?


Thematically, a Sports, Biopics and Musicals lists are very much needed.

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#4262

Post by zuma » March 3rd, 2020, 7:12 pm

I need to stop reading this thread.

Partially because the 5 new lists have already been decided, but mainly due to the suggestions I see from everyone. :)

Almost every one of the suggested improvements/removals or new list suggestions fill me with horror.

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#4263

Post by max-scl » March 3rd, 2020, 7:17 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 5:11 pm
I don't see a problem with the Best Cartoons Ever List. I also like the Oscar List.

On Jerry's List I have seen all 50 films (it was indeed my first platinum though I don't have any nostalgia about it lol), with 4 favourites and 4 dislikes.
On the Oscar Animated Short Winners List I have seen 78/88 films, with 9 favourites and 3 dislikes.

So, looks like I slightly prefer the Oscar list (though those 10 unseen films are more likely to be additional dislikes than likes), but I still think both are worthwhile :)
I would go in another direction and adopt this: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/anne ... l/eulalia/

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#4264

Post by OldAle1 » March 3rd, 2020, 7:18 pm

zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:12 pm
I need to stop reading this thread.

Partially because the 5 new lists have already been decided, but mainly due to the suggestions I see from everyone. :)

Almost every one of the suggested improvements/removals or new list suggestions fill me with horror.
So you're not up for adding new countries, new or improved genre lists, new lists from Cannes/Oscars, new doc or animation lists, new Film Festival or industry awards from countries not already having them... what's left?

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#4265

Post by zuma » March 3rd, 2020, 7:27 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:18 pm
zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:12 pm
I need to stop reading this thread.

Partially because the 5 new lists have already been decided, but mainly due to the suggestions I see from everyone. :)

Almost every one of the suggested improvements/removals or new list suggestions fill me with horror.
So you're not up for adding new countries, new or improved genre lists, new lists from Cannes/Oscars, new doc or animation lists, new Film Festival or industry awards from countries not already having them... what's left?
Ha. Quite the contrarian I am. I was speaking about the specific docs, festival, awards, countries and genres mentioned here, not those subjects in general.

But since you asked, the what's left would fall under the critics and institutes tabs.

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#4266

Post by jeroeno » March 3rd, 2020, 7:29 pm

zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:12 pm
I need to stop reading this thread.
This.

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#4267

Post by 72aicm » March 3rd, 2020, 7:37 pm

If I was a betting man, which I am, I’d put my money on a new decade list. Maybe several.

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#4268

Post by albajos » March 3rd, 2020, 7:43 pm

No need to bet. There will be a imdb 2020s list, probably sometime this year or early 2021

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#4269

Post by Coryn » March 3rd, 2020, 8:13 pm

sol wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:51 pm
dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition
Gee, if that gets adopted and Best Documentary doesn't... :shrug:

I don't know how strongly I feel about the other contenders. I'm mixed on the our Top 1000 being adopted. On one hand, I think it makes perfect sense given how many other film forums with small user bases have their list as Official, and since we do more to promote iCM than any other online community, but if Pleasantville becomes the only new Official Check with the adoption it would be less exciting to me than other lists.
I'm mixed on the our Top 1000 being adopted. -> To me it makes a lot of sense to adopt this because as you said some Dutch forums got their own official list and with all respect for the help they apparently gave to form icm (not sure if this is right but that's what the description says) these are general forums and the people voting are generally peopel who don't watch movies too often plus the amt. of voters is often small.

I'm not saying we should remove them but just that it would make sense to adopt our own list.
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#4270

Post by Ebbywebby » March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm

I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.

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#4271

Post by Torgo » March 3rd, 2020, 8:31 pm

dirty_score wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:39 pm
Academy Award Animated Short and Feature Winners would be a nice addition :thumbsup: but only if replaces "Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck"
Just here to second this! One thing the Academy actually gets right ..

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#4272

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 8:39 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm
I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.
Yes! Seconded! :woot:
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#4273

Post by zuma » March 3rd, 2020, 8:50 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm
I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.
Now we are talking. ...but this list has come up before and the mods are not a fan of it.

Too bad there was not another good slow cinema list.

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#4274

Post by beavis » March 3rd, 2020, 8:53 pm

Grunes 100 favorites is somewhat in that ballpark...

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/denn ... iesicheck/

Edit: i was actually thinking more of his "a short chronology of world cinema" list, but that one might be too large...

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#4275

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:34 pm

Bah! AFI's 100 years...100 movies appears to be my first platinum.

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#4276

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:36 pm

zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 7:12 pm
I need to stop reading this thread.

Partially because the 5 new lists have already been decided, but mainly due to the suggestions I see from everyone. :)

Almost every one of the suggested improvements/removals or new list suggestions fill me with horror.
Why do they fill you with horror? Which suggestions? Or is it just the idea of removals that horrifies? :huh:

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#4277

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:41 pm

zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:50 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm
I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.
Now we are talking. ...but this list has come up before and the mods are not a fan of it.

Too bad there was not another good slow cinema list.
Can you be more specific about the list(s)? (Links please)

I know this is an area I'm not so familiar with though clearly I've see work that fits. How does this relate to Mumblecore in your minds? (I admit to not really understanding that either even after checking the Font of All Knowledge)

But all three areas seem like genres/sub-genres that could/should? be addressed at some point.

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#4278

Post by John Milton » March 3rd, 2020, 9:58 pm

erde wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:39 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm
I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.
Yes! Seconded! :woot:
I think that might be a nice addition as well, though I haven't looked into potential candidates?
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#4279

Post by zuma » March 3rd, 2020, 10:48 pm

xianjiro wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 9:41 pm
zuma wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:50 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 8:15 pm
I don't obsess over new lists, but I think that "Screening Boredom"/"Slow Cinema" list would be a nice add.
Now we are talking. ...but this list has come up before and the mods are not a fan of it.

Too bad there was not another good slow cinema list.
Can you be more specific about the list(s)? (Links please)

I know this is an area I'm not so familiar with though clearly I've see work that fits. How does this relate to Mumblecore in your minds? (I admit to not really understanding that either even after checking the Font of All Knowledge)

But all three areas seem like genres/sub-genres that could/should? be addressed at some point.
Ebby was talking about this one;

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/scre ... ma/mjf314/

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#4280

Post by List Promoter » March 4th, 2020, 9:50 am

Exactly how many new anime/animation lists do you need? There are arguably already too many. Please stop treating animation like it was the best and historically most important genre in cinema history, because it isn't. When is something gonna be done about the lack of critic lists?

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