Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Polls: Favorite Movies (Results), 1945 (Results), 1929 awards (Apr 4th), South Asia (Apr 25th), Doubling the Canon (Ratings Apr 30th)
Challenges: Doubling the Canon, Nordic, 1950s
Film of the Week: Valkoinen peura, May nominations (May 1st)
World Cup S4: Round 1 schedule, 1F: Brazil vs Greece vs Japan vs Poland (Apr 5th), 1G: Germany vs Pakistan vs Ukraine vs USA (Apr 22nd)

New Official List Discussion

Post Reply
User avatar
albajos
Posts: 6832
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: New Official List Discussion

#4161

Post by albajos » January 10th, 2020, 10:31 pm

We have one forum list just like fok and filmtotaal, we went with 500><400 to not make all lists similar.

Most film forums end up dying. The only one that has a user base that will stay for a while seem to be Reddit at the moment which already is official.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4162

Post by xianjiro » January 11th, 2020, 2:16 am

Agreed that the two top 1000 lists Lakigigar mentions shouldn't be considered as replacements for DtC. I'm not even clear why we'd want to "replace" as in de-officialize a popular list, which may have an unusual nominating/voting process, but which many, many users actively participate in -- unless there is too much duplication with other lists. Still there is value in the DtC and it's nice to be able to have input somewhere.

Wasn't the iCM/forum Top something on the ballot last time over at the official forum? Is there a reason it's not been made official yet? Well, other than there were other lists that the Mods felt were a priority.

As for FOK - it's not really exciting to hear about the current update process especially when we were discussing the bizarre nature of the current Best of Rotting Tomatoes list. If a list update isn't serious - isn't up to our high standards - what should we do? I could see freezing it in time or in this case, reverting to an earlier list. I'm not really excited about lists staying official if they become the sole domain of a handful of film fanatics who happen to speak Zulu or whatever language. If updates aren't robust, maybe we should just skip the update and put the reason why in the description for the list. I won't shed a tear in such a situation if the Mods chose to make the list unofficial if it really looked like the source was dying.

There are so many lists, why waste time, space, and energy on something that isn't up to OUR HIGH STANDARDS.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4163

Post by Lakigigar » January 11th, 2020, 2:44 am

And with 73 participants, why doesn't Moviemeter deserve their own top list, if we decided to make 500 < 400 as our top list.
Wasn't the iCM/forum Top something on the ballot last time over at the official forum? Is there a reason it's not been made official yet? Well, other than there were other lists that the Mods felt were a priority.
Would want to know that.

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 24268
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#4164

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 11th, 2020, 3:05 am

User consensus lists aren't something we're looking to add at the moment. We're aware of both of those lists, obviously, and the door isn't shut on them but at the moment they're not in the mix for adoption.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 3568
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#4165

Post by Onderhond » January 11th, 2020, 9:52 am

xianjiro wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 2:16 am
There are so many lists, why waste time, space, and energy on something that isn't up to OUR HIGH STANDARDS.
I like the sarcasm, just not sure it's there.

dirty_score
Posts: 287
Joined: Oct 10, 2016
Contact:

#4166

Post by dirty_score » January 11th, 2020, 6:41 pm

xianjiro wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 2:16 am
Agreed that the two top 1000 lists Lakigigar mentions shouldn't be considered as replacements for DtC. I'm not even clear why we'd want to "replace" as in de-officialize a popular list, which may have an unusual nominating/voting process, but which many, many users actively participate in -- unless there is too much duplication with other lists. Still there is value in the DtC and it's nice to be able to have input somewhere.
I understand they may not replace DtC because of "different nature of the lists" but there's a lot of reasons why it should be discarded:

1. Popular is not. Reddit 250 IS popular. All-time worldwide box office IS popular.
2. Overbloated at 1200 titles! Needs to be trimmed.
3. It WAS a project that started in the IMDb film board (now extinct!!) and currently in ICM, just for some of you vote for their obscure favorite movies to get an official check and for that, you have the ICM's Forum list with their own set of rules.
4. "Originally it was a selection of 1000 movies to complement the TSPDT Top 1000, now it is a list of 1,000-1,250 which complements both the all time Top 1000 and the companion TSPDT Top 1000 of the 21st century." What will complement next? There's plenty of TSPDT lists official, you don't NEED complements.

For me, the list is superfluous.

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4167

Post by Lakigigar » January 11th, 2020, 6:57 pm

When is the next DtC actually?

User avatar
Angel Glez
Posts: 2066
Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Location: Spain
Contact:

#4168

Post by Angel Glez » January 11th, 2020, 7:21 pm

dirty_score wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 6:41 pm
4. "Originally it was a selection of 1000 movies to complement the TSPDT Top 1000, now it is a list of 1,000-1,250 which complements both the all time Top 1000 and the companion TSPDT Top 1000 of the 21st century." What will complement next? There's plenty of TSPDT lists official, you don't NEED complements.

For me, the list is superfluous.
Yeah, you better focus on getting TSPDT lists done and then stop watching (superfluous) movies.
Lakigigar wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 6:57 pm
When is the next DtC actually?
In February, hopefully.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4169

Post by xianjiro » January 12th, 2020, 5:15 am

Onderhond wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 9:52 am
xianjiro wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 2:16 am
There are so many lists, why waste time, space, and energy on something that isn't up to OUR HIGH STANDARDS.
I like the sarcasm, just not sure it's there.
not really meant, but I rarely refuse to accept double meanings B)

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4170

Post by xianjiro » January 12th, 2020, 5:41 am

dirty_score wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 6:41 pm
xianjiro wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 2:16 am
Agreed that the two top 1000 lists Lakigigar mentions shouldn't be considered as replacements for DtC. I'm not even clear why we'd want to "replace" as in de-officialize a popular list, which may have an unusual nominating/voting process, but which many, many users actively participate in -- unless there is too much duplication with other lists. Still there is value in the DtC and it's nice to be able to have input somewhere.
I understand they may not replace DtC because of "different nature of the lists" but there's a lot of reasons why it should be discarded:

1. Popular is not. Reddit 250 IS popular. All-time worldwide box office IS popular.
2. Overbloated at 1200 titles! Needs to be trimmed.
3. It WAS a project that started in the IMDb film board (now extinct!!) and currently in ICM, just for some of you vote for their obscure favorite movies to get an official check and for that, you have the ICM's Forum list with their own set of rules.
4. "Originally it was a selection of 1000 movies to complement the TSPDT Top 1000, now it is a list of 1,000-1,250 which complements both the all time Top 1000 and the companion TSPDT Top 1000 of the 21st century." What will complement next? There's plenty of TSPDT lists official, you don't NEED complements.

For me, the list is superfluous.
I disagree. DtC has been favorited 207 times and added to 210 watchlists. TSZDT (horror) by contrast has been favorited 318 times and added to 330 watchlists. Granted, DtC has been on the site longer, but that still suggests there is plenty of interest in the list. BTW, I'm not included in those stats. Angel would be able to offer figures on how many voters participate in the DtC process, but I'm willing to bet it's a whole lot more than FOK.

As for 1200 titles being too long - meh 1000, 1200 :shrug: This doesn't phase me and I'm not a fan of huge lists with some exceptions and I'm comfortable with this one.

For me, something like the Finnish list is uninteresting. I've shared that and my general concern about country lists but know others like them and they serve a purpose on the site. I'm not going to campaign to have them removed.

So in the end, I guess it boils down to what is meant by "popular". Yes, Reddit, Rotting Tomatoes, and IMDb Top 250 are popular in the broad sense that the movies are popular with garden variety movie fans, the kind of people who say "I love movies" when I meet them IRL. To these folks, it never occurs to them that people actually seek out films from other countries, in other languages, from decades long ago and they are amazed when I talk about the kinds of films I watch. A silent film from Poland? They make movies in Costa Rica? A Chinese film from the 30s? I won't even mention stuff like Brakhage and what's on Vogel. These concepts are as alien to them as deep sea vent living extremophiles were to scientists when they were just being discovered.

No, I'm glad we have DtC, and I actively work it. :party: Thanks to everyone who participates.

If people don't like it, aren't interested in it, then ignore it (unless one is going for some sort of goal on iCM, then one just has to deal with it like I do with the blasted country lists where I'm lucky to find 10% of the titles).

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
erde
Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 02, 2019
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#4171

Post by erde » January 12th, 2020, 9:10 am

xianjiro wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:41 am
For me, something like the Finnish list is uninteresting. I've shared that and my general concern about country lists but know others like them and they serve a purpose on the site. I'm not going to campaign to have them removed.

[- -]

If people don't like it, aren't interested in it, then ignore it (unless one is going for some sort of goal on iCM, then one just has to deal with it like I do with the blasted country lists where I'm lucky to find 10% of the titles).
I have been thinking about this too with some other country lists, but on the other hand I really like the cultural variety that they bring to official checks. They have encouraged me to watch a great number of movies that I would not have otherwise watched, and to learn about cinematic histories of other countries. Also, that particular official Finnish list has finally made me watch the classic movies of my own country, even though I haven't been very enthusiastic about that in the past for a number of reasons. However, I realize that for that particular list we are in very different positions, since I can get most of the movies from my local library and the national classic movie streaming service. :whistling:
Image Image

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4172

Post by xianjiro » January 12th, 2020, 11:04 am

erde wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 9:10 am
xianjiro wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:41 am
For me, something like the Finnish list is uninteresting. I've shared that and my general concern about country lists but know others like them and they serve a purpose on the site. I'm not going to campaign to have them removed.

[- -]

If people don't like it, aren't interested in it, then ignore it (unless one is going for some sort of goal on iCM, then one just has to deal with it like I do with the blasted country lists where I'm lucky to find 10% of the titles).
I have been thinking about this too with some other country lists, but on the other hand I really like the cultural variety that they bring to official checks. They have encouraged me to watch a great number of movies that I would not have otherwise watched, and to learn about cinematic histories of other countries. Also, that particular official Finnish list has finally made me watch the classic movies of my own country, even though I haven't been very enthusiastic about that in the past for a number of reasons. However, I realize that for that particular list we are in very different positions, since I can get most of the movies from my local library and the national classic movie streaming service. :whistling:
Likewise, I suspect South Koreans are able to easily get the movies on their two lists that I have quite a bit of difficulty finding. It does seem increasingly easy to get films from all over the world in the US through libraries and streaming services which is great going forward but there really isn't much economic incentive for distribution of "lesser known" older films from such cinematic 'backwaters'. Even older French, German, and Japanese productions can be hard to track down in the US whereas most modern releases are picked up for distribution by someone.

I do definitely agree with you about enjoying the exposure to films that would likely never cross my path otherwise. Even with those 1000 movie lists compiled by critics, it's impossible to spotlight that many 'obscure' (by international standards) films. So yes, absolutely, a good country list can help us to focus attention and that's one of the reasons I still do work them best I can. It's just annoying to spend time searching catalogs and not getting hits that are of use. It's great that those Finnish films are held in 150 European libraries, but that doesn't help me any. :P

And to be clear here, my issue with country lists isn't that I can't get these films 'locally' - there are plenty of titles on things like 21st Century, TSPDT, and the 1000 best type lists that I can't get - for me the issue with country lists has more to do with which countries get official lists and the subsequent exposure and how that appears to outsiders. Even an active iCMer who doesn't join the forum but knows international film is going to wonder why Brazil and Chile get official lists but not Argentina or Colombia for example. What about Bulgaria, Israel, Thailand, or the Philippines? It's not until one gets active in the community and learns the ins and outs of the road to official status that one understands the answer. While I don't expect that I'll live to see official lists for even 100 countries, I do wonder if that's what we're ultimately working towards.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

dirty_score
Posts: 287
Joined: Oct 10, 2016
Contact:

#4173

Post by dirty_score » January 12th, 2020, 12:09 pm

xianjiro wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:41 am

For me, something like the Finnish list is uninteresting. I've shared that and my general concern about country lists but know others like them and they serve a purpose on the site. I'm not going to campaign to have them removed.

If people don't like it, aren't interested in it, then ignore it (unless one is going for some sort of goal on iCM, then one just has to deal with it like I do with the blasted country lists where I'm lucky to find 10% of the titles).
That's another old beef I have with the Finnish list as well as the Swedish.They're fine as official but they would be better if they were trimmed. There's one/two vote movies in there while on some other lists one/two vote movies don't make the final cut. I don't understand this 'rule' as it doesn't apply for ALL lists. Why? Because of lenght? If a certain country don't have a good list of 50 movies with enough votes, then wait for a better one instead of turning it official and going around your own set of rules.

xianjiro wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 11:04 am
Likewise, I suspect South Koreans are able to easily get the movies on their two lists that I have quite a bit of difficulty finding.

for me the issue with country lists has more to do with which countries get official lists and the subsequent exposure and how that appears to outsiders. Even an active iCMer who doesn't join the forum but knows international film is going to wonder why Brazil and Chile get official lists but not Argentina or Colombia for example.
The south korean lists are another example. They're pratically the same! Why can't they be merged or something?
There's a nice colombian list that would make a good adoption but the mods only like to adopt 4 lists every 6 months. If you have a nice set of lists within the genre, tab, whatever, adopt them at once, whether is 3, 5 or 10.

For 2020, I would like to propose to the mods, a list being official at every end or beginning of every month. Whether as a new one or just a replacement, at the end of the year, you would still get a reasonable set of 12 new lists, which is no different then 6 per half a year.

This, and trimming lists. Make ICM cleaner again!

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4174

Post by Lakigigar » January 12th, 2020, 12:51 pm

The South Korean lists actually need an update and are practically the same. South Korean cinema really flourished in the 21st century, so it would be good to update those to include Gisaengchung for example. I don't know how it could be done. Maybe we have to wait a little time and there are other country lists that desperately need an update more, like the Brazil list still doesn't have City of God because it only runs to 2000.

User avatar
erde
Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 02, 2019
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#4175

Post by erde » January 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm

albajos wrote:
January 10th, 2020, 10:31 pm
We have one forum list just like fok and filmtotaal, we went with 500><400 to not make all lists similar.
By the way, is there a thread on why it's specifically 500<400 and not, say, 500<500? I'm sure there's a good reason behind this and other choices behind it, but I could not find it with a quick search.
Image Image

dirty_score
Posts: 287
Joined: Oct 10, 2016
Contact:

#4176

Post by dirty_score » January 12th, 2020, 2:26 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 12:51 pm
there are other country lists that desperately need an update more, like the Brazil list still doesn't have City of God because it only runs to 2000.
I think you're mistaken, that Brazil list (Contracampo's) that went to 2001 only, was replaced by a new one (Abracine's) and has City of God featured and more recent movies.

The spanish Nickel Odeon should have had the same fate. I think the Dutch list could really need an update! Then there's Bollywood, China, Turkey and Australia.

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 30952
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#4177

Post by joachimt » January 12th, 2020, 2:48 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 12:51 pm
The South Korean lists actually need an update and are practically the same. South Korean cinema really flourished in the 21st century, so it would be good to update those to include Gisaengchung for example. I don't know how it could be done. Maybe we have to wait a little time and there are other country lists that desperately need an update more, like the Brazil list still doesn't have City of God because it only runs to 2000.
If you can find a good list (preferably critics poll or similar), that covers the whole history of South Korea including this century...... Sure, that would be a great replacement for both the Korean lists.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 3677
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#4178

Post by Fergenaprido » January 12th, 2020, 2:55 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 12:51 pm
The South Korean lists actually need an update and are practically the same. South Korean cinema really flourished in the 21st century, so it would be good to update those to include Gisaengchung for example. I don't know how it could be done. Maybe we have to wait a little time and there are other country lists that desperately need an update more, like the Brazil list still doesn't have City of God because it only runs to 2000.
The 100 Korean Films lists did have a significant update in 2015, when a quarter of the list was replaced. Now the most recent film on it is from 2010 (previously it only went up to 1996). I imagine they will do another update some time this decade (and I would be very surprised if Parasite doesn't make that list). Some of those lists that look static actually do get sporadic updates; The Canadian one, for example, gets an update once every ten years, and I think a few others are like that. There are 56 films on both Korean lists; while that's a significant overlap, I'd say it's a bit much to call them "practically the same".

The lists are only as good as the ones we can find. If you encounter additional or alternative lists from a particular country, please do share them here. We've replaced official country lists in the past, so while it's discouraged it does happen when there is a strong enough reason to replace a list that no longer serves its purpose.

dirty_score
Posts: 287
Joined: Oct 10, 2016
Contact:

#4179

Post by dirty_score » January 12th, 2020, 3:30 pm

I think national lists sometimes can provide that, for this instance: The Grand Bell Awards (https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/moti ... /ataraxic/) but the mods seem very uptight in the awards section.

I know this list only starts in 1961 but I've seen here that sometimes the norm for a list to be worthy is if it starts in the silent period and end in todays time.

Seriously, take in consideration national awards, instead of waiting around for books or critics polls. For example the National Award of Philipines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS_Awa ... st_Picture).

Nathan Treadway
Donator
Posts: 4120
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Springfield, MO, USA
Contact:

#4180

Post by Nathan Treadway » January 12th, 2020, 4:36 pm

dirty_score wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 3:30 pm
I think national lists sometimes can provide that, for this instance: The Grand Bell Awards (https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/moti ... /ataraxic/) but the mods seem very uptight in the awards section.

I know this list only starts in 1961 but I've seen here that sometimes the norm for a list to be worthy is if it starts in the silent period and end in todays time.

Seriously, take in consideration national awards, instead of waiting around for books or critics polls. For example the National Award of Philipines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS_Awa ... st_Picture).
100% Agree with this. There's countries that really deserve an official list that have annual awards (Argentina comes to mind, for instance), but, it seems like we are waiting around for poll lists instead of just adopting awards. Why not just adopt the awards, and when a poll comes around, adopt that as well? There's plenty of precedent already established.

mjf314
Moderator
Posts: 11048
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#4181

Post by mjf314 » January 12th, 2020, 5:10 pm

erde wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
albajos wrote:
January 10th, 2020, 10:31 pm
We have one forum list just like fok and filmtotaal, we went with 500><400 to not make all lists similar.
By the way, is there a thread on why it's specifically 500<400 and not, say, 500<500? I'm sure there's a good reason behind this and other choices behind it, but I could not find it with a quick search.
The list size was decided before the list name was decided. I looked at the check counts of various films to figure out what cutoff seemed right. The list becomes slightly more obscure every year (as iCM gets more members), so if the cutoff was decided today, it might have been 500 instead of 400.

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4182

Post by Lakigigar » January 12th, 2020, 6:43 pm

Yes, it will be the last time my favourite movie Kreuzweg will be included. Last time, i checked, it had 374 checks. That's why i want to participate in DtC to save Kreuzweg from that fate.

And fine enough, let's hope some of those lists get updated, and that there will be new 10's lists, like that one of IndieWire.

mjf314
Moderator
Posts: 11048
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#4183

Post by mjf314 » January 12th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 6:43 pm
And fine enough, let's hope some of those lists get updated, and that there will be new 10's lists, like that one of IndieWire.
Which IndieWire list? Do you mean the 2010s list?

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4184

Post by Lakigigar » January 12th, 2020, 7:29 pm

mjf314 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:26 pm
Lakigigar wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 6:43 pm
And fine enough, let's hope some of those lists get updated, and that there will be new 10's lists, like that one of IndieWire.
Which IndieWire list? Do you mean the 2010s list?
yes

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4185

Post by xianjiro » January 12th, 2020, 10:15 pm

dirty_score wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 12:09 pm

That's another old beef I have with the Finnish list as well as the Swedish.They're fine as official but they would be better if they were trimmed. There's one/two vote movies in there while on some other lists one/two vote movies don't make the final cut. I don't understand this 'rule' as it doesn't apply for ALL lists. Why? Because of lenght? If a certain country don't have a good list of 50 movies with enough votes, then wait for a better one instead of turning it official and going around your own set of rules.

...

The south korean lists are another example. They're pratically the same! Why can't they be merged or something?
There's a nice colombian list that would make a good adoption but the mods only like to adopt 4 lists every 6 months. If you have a nice set of lists within the genre, tab, whatever, adopt them at once, whether is 3, 5 or 10.

For 2020, I would like to propose to the mods, a list being official at every end or beginning of every month. Whether as a new one or just a replacement, at the end of the year, you would still get a reasonable set of 12 new lists, which is no different then 6 per half a year.

This, and trimming lists. Make ICM cleaner again!
While from a user perspective, merging lists might make sense, keep in mind that we're trying to "follow the source". I'm not sure that's always been the case, but it certainly has been an important part of the discussion in recent years. Won't go so far as to say every list that is currently official is exactly as it was when finally published, but if there are differences in treatment, that might be a function of the change in management of the site.

The one and two vote movies on the Finnish list have been discussed before and it was adopted before I even found this forum, so I can't say what happened during its adoption. Even if another list was trimmed in the past, and while I'm not excited about one/two movies making lists, if the list creators/authors decided that was how they wanted to structure their list and we decide to include that list, then we need to publish their list as they published it. It's their work, not ours.

BTW, did you know we have an entire list of one vote movies?
SpoilerShow
Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own - "The movies on this list had as its solely criterium: they must be mentioned at most once in a top list. 250 film critics/film makers got to choose exactly one of the aforementioned movies."
Again, many hard-to-find movies and only 6 users have made it to bronze, but it's an interesting, eclectic mix - not one of my favorites but still worthwhile given its context. Love it, work it, skip it - the choice is yours.

Last, while a new official list each month might sound good from a user perspective, and while there is a goal for new adoptions to happen about every six months, my understanding is that making a list official requires a bit more work than flicking a switch. Beyond getting agreement between Mods, the site owner/programmer works behind the scenes and has a 'day job' independent of iCM. It's my personal belief that all are working hard to provide the best user experience possible but given that we're mostly an open 'fan community' and people work for the community as volunteers, a bit of patience helps. New adoptions happen when new adoptions are announced. :thumbsup:

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
beavis
Posts: 2088
Joined: Jun 20, 2011
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

#4186

Post by beavis » January 12th, 2020, 10:53 pm

Interesting discussion on country lists
This kind of discussion should have come up a lot more during that big poll we had. in fact country lists were the least asked for / voted on / discussed at that time, so the general feeling is that most ICM-users might not use and/or like them that much. Despite that, we are still slowly working to get more countries represented. And, while there is a great resistance, also updating lists that really need it, (only) when a significant improvement has been found. As discussed by some above, finding a good list for a country is sometimes a bit difficult... finding any lists for some countries (online) can even be difficult. There are no guidelines that state a country list should include an entire history of that country, but how it was made (by whom and with what goal in mind) should be clear and the length should 'feel' right.

User avatar
Zenigame
Posts: 15
Joined: Jan 12, 2020
Location: France
Contact:

#4187

Post by Zenigame » January 13th, 2020, 1:08 am

Hello ! I am new in ICM, and I have a question:

Is there an official list for movies which are in no other official list ?

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 24268
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#4188

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 13th, 2020, 1:29 am

Zenigame wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 1:08 am
Hello ! I am new in ICM, and I have a question:

Is there an official list for movies which are in no other official list ?
Welcome to the forum :)

No. It's something we've done on this forum for our own fun, but not something that is official nor something we'd consider making official.

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1219
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4189

Post by Lakigigar » January 13th, 2020, 1:35 am

Zenigame wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 1:08 am
Hello ! I am new in ICM, and I have a question:

Is there an official list for movies which are in no other official list ?
Not official, but this can help you

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3584

And welcome.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4190

Post by xianjiro » January 13th, 2020, 4:24 am

Welcome Zenigame! I'm not really sure I understand what you are looking for. Clearly there isn't an official of list of movies that aren't on official lists since that cancels itself out. Are you looking for a list of films that are on only one list?

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Tim2460
Posts: 1519
Joined: Oct 01, 2018
Location: Dijon, France
Contact:

#4191

Post by Tim2460 » January 13th, 2020, 7:40 am

"No other list" would mean ... on only one list i guess ?

If so there are 2 lists because there are more than 5000 film on 1 official list :

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/film ... 1/tim2460/
&
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/film ... 2/tim2460/

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4192

Post by xianjiro » January 13th, 2020, 8:01 am

Thanks Tim, you read my mind.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
erde
Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 02, 2019
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#4193

Post by erde » January 13th, 2020, 9:25 am

mjf314 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:10 pm
erde wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
albajos wrote:
January 10th, 2020, 10:31 pm
We have one forum list just like fok and filmtotaal, we went with 500><400 to not make all lists similar.
By the way, is there a thread on why it's specifically 500<400 and not, say, 500<500? I'm sure there's a good reason behind this and other choices behind it, but I could not find it with a quick search.
The list size was decided before the list name was decided. I looked at the check counts of various films to figure out what cutoff seemed right. The list becomes slightly more obscure every year (as iCM gets more members), so if the cutoff was decided today, it might have been 500 instead of 400.
Thank you, mjf314! I thought that you guys probably did a check analysis like that and that it must have been the reason for the curious threshold. I guess that the list becoming more and more obscure over the years cannot exactly be avoided (delayed, maybe), because the official list itself encourages the check count of each film to rise and the films to eventually get out of the list because of it.
Image Image

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 30952
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#4194

Post by joachimt » January 13th, 2020, 10:20 am

erde wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 9:25 am
mjf314 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:10 pm
erde wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm


By the way, is there a thread on why it's specifically 500<400 and not, say, 500<500? I'm sure there's a good reason behind this and other choices behind it, but I could not find it with a quick search.
The list size was decided before the list name was decided. I looked at the check counts of various films to figure out what cutoff seemed right. The list becomes slightly more obscure every year (as iCM gets more members), so if the cutoff was decided today, it might have been 500 instead of 400.
Thank you, mjf314! I thought that you guys probably did a check analysis like that and that it must have been the reason for the curious threshold. I guess that the list becoming more and more obscure over the years cannot exactly be avoided (delayed, maybe), because the official list itself encourages the check count of each film to rise and the films to eventually get out of the list because of it.
And that's exactly the idea that we liked about this list when we first started it.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"

User avatar
erde
Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 02, 2019
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#4195

Post by erde » January 13th, 2020, 10:39 am

I think that it's fascinating about it, too. I think that it's frankly a simple but brilliant mechanism to promote lesser known gems: when the list has done it's job (i.e. when the film is better known), the film gets out of the list and gives way to a lesser known great film.
Image Image

User avatar
cinephage
Donator
Posts: 3931
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Contact:

#4196

Post by cinephage » January 13th, 2020, 11:09 am

erde wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 9:25 am
mjf314 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:10 pm
erde wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm


By the way, is there a thread on why it's specifically 500<400 and not, say, 500<500? I'm sure there's a good reason behind this and other choices behind it, but I could not find it with a quick search.
The list size was decided before the list name was decided. I looked at the check counts of various films to figure out what cutoff seemed right. The list becomes slightly more obscure every year (as iCM gets more members), so if the cutoff was decided today, it might have been 500 instead of 400.
Thank you, mjf314! I thought that you guys probably did a check analysis like that and that it must have been the reason for the curious threshold. I guess that the list becoming more and more obscure over the years cannot exactly be avoided (delayed, maybe), because the official list itself encourages the check count of each film to rise and the films to eventually get out of the list because of it.
I believe there is a list of all the films that were, at one moment, part of this list, but are not anymore. But I couldn't find it...

User avatar
Zenigame
Posts: 15
Joined: Jan 12, 2020
Location: France
Contact:

#4197

Post by Zenigame » January 13th, 2020, 12:39 pm

:letbxd:
Lakigigar wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 1:35 am
Zenigame wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 1:08 am
Hello ! I am new in ICM, and I have a question:

Is there an official list for movies which are in no other official list ?
Not official, but this can help you

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3584

And welcome.

Yes, thank you, that's exactly what I meant :)
(sorry if my english is bad, it's not my mother tongue)

btw, why did you choose not to put it as official list ?

(And thanks for your welcomes !)

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7296
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#4198

Post by xianjiro » January 13th, 2020, 5:06 pm

cinephage wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 11:09 am
erde wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 9:25 am
mjf314 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 5:10 pm


The list size was decided before the list name was decided. I looked at the check counts of various films to figure out what cutoff seemed right. The list becomes slightly more obscure every year (as iCM gets more members), so if the cutoff was decided today, it might have been 500 instead of 400.
Thank you, mjf314! I thought that you guys probably did a check analysis like that and that it must have been the reason for the curious threshold. I guess that the list becoming more and more obscure over the years cannot exactly be avoided (delayed, maybe), because the official list itself encourages the check count of each film to rise and the films to eventually get out of the list because of it.
I believe there is a list of all the films that were, at one moment, part of this list, but are not anymore. But I couldn't find it...
Adam hasn't updated this one since 2017 - https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/500d ... ion/adamh/
Or this one last updated in 2014 - https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/ex-5 ... lms/adamh/

I'll have to look at Peaceful's results spreadsheet and see if I could use that to update Adam's version of the first list above though I hate to created duplicate lists even if one is more current. (This is why I wish we could transfer 'ownership' of a list between users.)

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
erde
Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 02, 2019
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#4199

Post by erde » January 13th, 2020, 9:18 pm

Since we kind of started talking about new official lists again...

Today we got 9 more entries on an official list again when the Academy award nominees for best picture were published (one non-American nominee, 2 new official checks). That's all fine by me, but could we also get even the 3rd highest ranked film from the official competition of the Cannes film festival (Prix du Jury) as an official check annually, too? I understand that accepting all the nominees might be out of the question there, since there are a lot of them (approx. 20 annually). But three winning movies from a huge, global, high-esteem film competition could hardly be called exaggerating, don't you think? (The Jury prize winners are usually also less-known high-quality films than the Academy award nominees, so they could use the extra exposure on the site.)
Image Image

dirty_score
Posts: 287
Joined: Oct 10, 2016
Contact:

#4200

Post by dirty_score » January 14th, 2020, 12:54 pm

The Cannes Grand Prix was recently added and having another Cannes would be too much, in my opinion! There are a lot of Film festivals as well as national awards deserving to be official first.

I would personally trade the academy award for animated & cartoons short films with best cartoons ever list - jerry beck list.

Post Reply