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New Official List Discussion

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Kublai Khan
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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4001

Post by Kublai Khan » August 3rd, 2019, 7:30 pm

xianjiro wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 6:22 am
Those 50 item IMDb lists are seen as great starter lists for newbs who might be a bit overwhelmed (to understate it) by a 1000 item list.
Ah, that makes sense.
flaiky wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 5:31 pm
Teproc wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 5:09 pm
I can't believe "1000 Horror films" is more controversial than "1000 Noir".
Oh yeah, I don't like that either. Same story: we should keep the top 100 (the ranked section) then have a link to the full list.

Both lists were created by huge enthusiasts of the genre, presumably because it was a personal interest, and they remain good resources for others with the same level of passion. But it's clearly an absurd number for the average user, and it's so far removed from any other genre list. Imagine if we had 1000 westerns, 1000 action films, 1000 musicals, 1000 sci-fis..? That would be silly, and so are these two lists (at full length).

I'm not on a crusade, I'm just being opinionated, so anyone starting to panic about losing official checks can stay calm. ;)
I agree (both in tone and content). When I first discovered the site, the term "official list" gives a sense of "these are defined by some authoritative body as being an objectively good or notable movie". I know it's not stated, but that's the impression one gets by ICM giving "Official" status to a list. But when you get to the reality that "Dracula: Dead and Loving it" and "Child's Play 2" are official checks, then you drift from the idea that "Official" movies are worth going out of the way to watch.

Just my 2 cents. I'm out.

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#4002

Post by albajos » August 3rd, 2019, 8:56 pm

Well, one list that will arrive soon is imdb's 2020s. But the question is, how soon? Should at least one year pass of the new decade?

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#4003

Post by dirty_score » August 4th, 2019, 12:30 am

I just wanna know if the Harvard list will be expanded with the Experimental list (and made into just one super list) or if that or another list will replace Anthology Films.

Doubling the Canon should be gone or at least reduced. Imo, 1200 is way too many.

More diverse Awards lists.

Maybe change the cutoff in the :imdb: lists

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#4004

Post by mjf314 » August 4th, 2019, 12:57 am

dirty_score wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 12:30 am
I just wanna know if the Harvard list will be expanded with the Experimental list (and made into just one super list) or if that or another list will replace Anthology Films.
I think there will probably be an official experimental list in the future, but it may or may not be the Harvard list. There are many experimental lists to choose from.

I don't think the mods have talked about the possibility of unadopting the AFA list.

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#4005

Post by dirty_score » August 4th, 2019, 4:53 am

Yes, there's a few interesting ones.

Also, I forgot the bad movies list. That one would be a easy removal for me. The entire catalogue is filled with disliked movies.
I understand people who enjoy 'so bad it's good movies' but I don't think this is the case. Who wants to work/suffer on a list where you end up disliking most of the movies in it?
I can deal with a few stinkers while working on a list, but it should be fun discovering movies. It's not worth the trip, me thinks.

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#4006

Post by Ebbywebby » August 4th, 2019, 8:05 am

I'm not too keen on the Bad Movies list either, though I wouldn't necessarily want it demoted. But I feel like the Cult Movies and Weird Movies lists kinda cover the worthwhile end of that world and the sheer "bad" movies are more secondary.

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#4007

Post by nimimerkillinen » August 4th, 2019, 10:26 am

flaiky wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 5:31 pm
Teproc wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 5:09 pm
I can't believe "1000 Horror films" is more controversial than "1000 Noir".
Oh yeah, I don't like that either. Same story: we should keep the top 100 (the ranked section) then have a link to the full list.

Both lists were created by huge enthusiasts of the genre, presumably because it was a personal interest, and they remain good resources for others with the same level of passion. But it's clearly an absurd number for the average user, and it's so far removed from any other genre list. Imagine if we had 1000 westerns, 1000 action films, 1000 musicals, 1000 sci-fis..? That would be silly, and so are these two lists (at full length).

I'm not on a crusade, I'm just being opinionated, so anyone starting to panic about losing official checks can stay calm. ;)
there are many times more horror movies than westerns and musicals. sci-fi and action id like 1000 list

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#4008

Post by xianjiro » August 4th, 2019, 10:30 am

It's good to be reminded that people do make really bad movies and some even make movies real badly. It's pretty annoying when someone posts a comment along the lines of "this is the worst movie ever!" when, in fact, it isn't. It might be the worst movie that 23 year old has ever seen, but when one has only watched Hollywood box office, that's not saying much. Having a list (or two) that showcase some really atrocious films and maybe have a website or book to back up the discussion has immense value to a website like iCM.

But that said, I'm not a big fan of 1000 title genre (or country) lists and I like the suggestion that such lists be split like the noir list although I would make the bottom part "sub-official" or something. "We at iCM recommend this list for those really interested in this genre/country/era/etc." Official status connotes import, substance, influence, etc. Does the fifth sequel to the remake of an 80s slasher flick fit the bill? It would have to be very, very special - but the same goes for hundred or so Brakhage official checks. Too much of a good thing isn't necessarily a good thing. A scoop of ice cream might be enough, but sometimes we want a whole bowl. Is it ever a good idea to eat a five gallon/19 litre drum?

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#4009

Post by nimimerkillinen » August 4th, 2019, 12:40 pm

xianjiro wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 10:30 am
Is it ever a good idea to eat a five gallon/19 litre drum?
cheaper that way, just dont eat them all at once and save in freezer

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#4010

Post by WalterNeff » August 4th, 2019, 3:34 pm

You guys keep forgetting to rabble rouse for a Pre-Code list.

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#4011

Post by xianjiro » August 4th, 2019, 3:44 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 3:34 pm
You guys keep forgetting to rabble rouse for a Pre-Code list.
yeah ... :ermm: :think: :whistling:

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#4012

Post by dirty_score » August 19th, 2019, 6:26 am

flaiky wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 4:29 pm
max-scl wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 2:23 pm
But it's huge genre, so it's fine for me. But I also think it's too big and the Imdb one too small, so I wouldn't mind something in between (Maybe the European Horror list)
Yeah if it was up to me, we would just take the top 250 from TZPDT then include a link to the full list for those who are interested.

Maybe I could live with 500. But 1000? Can the 1000th most acclaimed film of a genre even be considered acclaimed?

I respect the project as I know there are many horror buffs who enjoy it, but the full list is too niche for ICM...IMO.
max-scl wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 2:23 pm
But it's huge genre, so it's fine for me. But I also think it's too big and the Imdb one too small, so I wouldn't mind something in between (Maybe the European Horror list)

I also think the Silent lists are too big.
flaiky wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 10:58 am
I still can't believe we have a list of 1000 films for one genre.
Maybe we could try and persuade mighty to reduce the number of movies to 666 :whistling:

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#4013

Post by Coryn » August 19th, 2019, 1:20 pm

I might be biased but if there is one genre who deserves to have a 1000 movie list then it would be documentary imo.

Documentaries are not as represented in other official lists as other genres. Next to that they are also a completely different genre than anything else.
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#4014

Post by albajos » August 19th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Also shorts

they are comfortable and easy to wear

(If Brief Encounters got updated alongside the other TSPDT list I wouldn't say anything, but there are basically more shorts than features available, so making a list of 1000 shouldn't be all that hard)

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#4015

Post by joachimt » August 19th, 2019, 1:55 pm

albajos wrote:
August 19th, 2019, 1:27 pm
(If Brief Encounters got updated alongside the other TSPDT list I wouldn't say anything, )
What do you mean? Brief encounters was updated this year.
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#4016

Post by albajos » August 19th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Last updated on Feb 20, 2017.

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#4017

Post by joachimt » August 19th, 2019, 2:19 pm

Never mind. I confused it with the blues list.
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#4018

Post by Tim2460 » September 9th, 2019, 12:06 pm

I was wondering if Danny Peary book "Guide for the Film Fanatic" was ever considered as an addition to the official Lists ?

I heard of the book years ago, baught it (used) and i try to watch movies from it from time to time...

Adding the 'main' list (witch contains only the film with an short description by the author) would add 339 new official Films. (out of the 1644 films from that list).

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/guid ... banjohype/

There is an addendum to the book... where you can check the movies : talk about pre-ICM ,)

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/guid ... aretrilby/

But it would add way more officials movies... another 1190 ... That's a lot.

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#4019

Post by sol » September 9th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Tim2460 wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 12:06 pm
I was wondering if Danny Peary book "Guide for the Film Fanatic" was ever considered as an addition to the official Lists ?

I heard of the book years ago, baught it (used) and i try to watch movies from it from time to time...

Adding the 'main' list (witch contains only the film with an short description by the author) would add 339 new official Films. (out of the 1644 films from that list).
More official films?! :woot: I haven't read much Peary myself, but I'm actually quite familiar with his work since one of the few film review blogs that I read is written in reference to Peary - http://filmfanatic.org/reviews/ . I don't know much about the lady who runs the site, but her reviews tend to be fair, informative and balanced, even if I don't often agree with her opinions, and it is often fun to see how she reacts to Peary's comments in all the Peary recommendations that she views.
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#4020

Post by Tim2460 » September 9th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Hehe

I knew that site as well. She actually Met Peary or be interviewed for a documentary on Peary if i remember well.

She tries to follow the book and see every Film on the book... and blog it.
Just like the "Julie & Julia" movie where Julie Blogs every meal she cooked from the book of Julia ,)

The Film Fanatic book itself it kinda like the ICM "Paper edition", especialy with the addendum... with over "main" 4200 films total...
But it stopped in 1986 ! :satstunned:

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#4021

Post by WalterNeff » September 9th, 2019, 7:49 pm

I would be in favor of adding that list. Now all you have to do is convince the more recalcitrant stubborn conservative other mods

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#4022

Post by Ebbywebby » September 9th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Make the Fanatic list official, and a whole lot of exploitative trash becomes official. There are 25-30 other films that I'd enjoy turning official (many of them on my "Favorite Unofficial Checks" list), but I don't think the benefits outweigh the costs.

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#4023

Post by Onderhond » October 7th, 2019, 7:45 am

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Cult-Comme ... 1937220095

From what I gather book-lists aren't that popular anymore on ICM, but this one looked interesting enough, especially because it covers an era in Japanese cinema that's well underrepresented here.

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#4024

Post by Fergenaprido » October 7th, 2019, 7:50 am

Onderhond wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 7:45 am
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Cult-Comme ... 1937220095

From what I gather book-lists aren't that popular anymore on ICM, but this one looked interesting enough, especially because it covers an era in Japanese cinema that's well underrepresented here.
I don't know if I would support this as an official list since it's a bit too narrow in focus for my liking, but it does indeed seem like a great list that I'd love to see on icm if someone already has the book.

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#4025

Post by Onderhond » October 7th, 2019, 10:09 am

Well, the book isn't out yet, so I'm not sure about its actual contents (ie how many films will be in there, if it's just a comprehensive list of his reviews, a ranked list or a chronological one of the best films each year). I might buy it, then again I've seen my fair share of Japanese films so I'm not sure if the book will cover much new ground for me.

The narrow focus on the other hand is something I applaud. I think ICM could use more of that, it sure helps to dig deeper into specific niches.

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#4026

Post by Onderhond » October 7th, 2019, 12:52 pm

Apparently the book contains yearly top 10s and a bunch of slam & rave reviews, according to Schilling himself. Pre-ordered the book, will turn it into a list when it arrives (mid-november).

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#4027

Post by max-scl » October 7th, 2019, 4:38 pm

That's great, I have some of his yearly top tens complied here: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/
But I have some years missing and it doesn't goes as far back as the book could.

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#4028

Post by Onderhond » October 7th, 2019, 5:59 pm

68/104 from that list, so at least there should be some stuff left to explore!

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#4029

Post by beavis » October 7th, 2019, 6:36 pm

50/104 ... In recent years i saw most of my Japanese movies in cinema, so havent taken the time to delve into top-lists like this. Nice to see i'm still on about 50% on this one then. Is Midnight Eye still making top10 lists?

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#4030

Post by Onderhond » October 7th, 2019, 7:08 pm

Onderhond wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 5:59 pm
68/104 from that list, so at least there should be some stuff left to explore!
From that list 27 are personal favorites (and only 11 are official) and not a single dislike. That must be an absolute first :D

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#4031

Post by Nathan Treadway » October 11th, 2019, 2:59 am

Bump?


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#4033

Post by Fergenaprido » October 11th, 2019, 3:49 am

So.
IndieWire
Gangster
???
Chile

Of the Indiewire lists on icm, I think the most likely candidate is the female directors list: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/indi ... men/timec/

Of the gangster lists on icm, there are actually a number of candidates I see as possible, all with 50-101 films, some from regular sources that become official:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/101+ ... kasparius/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/digi ... yormovies/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/the+ ... flavo5000/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/the+ ... /gershwin/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... /panunzio/

I can't figure out wha the silhouette in red list is. Japanese horror? Maybe Galloway's https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/asia ... pronikoff/

And we already know the Chilean list is https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cine ... /joachimt/

Surprised Chile is the next country list adopted... especially since we still don't have a list for Argentina yet.

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#4034

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 11th, 2019, 4:05 am

Chile has a well sourced recent list, Argentina and Mexico have lists that are over 20 years old. From a country perspective those two would be better choices, but it is what it is. If we get good recent polls for those countries they're very likely to be adopted. Chile also did well in the poll.

I'm sure looking at the poll results can help you figure out the silhouette and the gangster list.

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#4035

Post by sol » October 11th, 2019, 4:23 am

This is the Gangster list:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/101+ ... kasparius/

Get Shorty becomes an Official Check! B)

If Ferg is correct about the red one being a Japanese flag, that would then probably make it...

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/japa ... ato/adamh/

...which seems very strange since it was the tenth lowest rated option in the poll and had more 0 and -1 votes than 3 or 4 votes. :shrug:

I suppose we'll get Oscar Best Documentary one of these days. :folded: I mean if it keeps getting top 5 places in user polls it would be weird to ignore that.
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#4036

Post by Nathan Treadway » October 11th, 2019, 4:30 am

n.m

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#4037

Post by Fergenaprido » October 11th, 2019, 4:31 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 11th, 2019, 4:05 am
Chile has a well sourced recent list, Argentina and Mexico have lists that are over 20 years old. From a country perspective those two would be better choices, but it is what it is. If we get good recent polls for those countries they're very likely to be adopted. Chile also did well in the poll.

I'm sure looking at the poll results can help you figure out the silhouette and the gangster list.
Yeah, I agree the source of the list is great, I just wish the country had put more out there. I mean, there's a film on that list that apparently the director won't make available: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/no+ ... andromeda/

I'll also take your last sentence as an implicit confirmation that I'm correct about the Indiewire list.

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#4038

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 11th, 2019, 4:36 am

sol wrote:
October 11th, 2019, 4:23 am

If Ferg is correct about the red one being a Japanese flag,
He's not.

Also as someone who thinks the Oscar docs list is a disaster that doesn't remotely represent the best docs, even within the context of US audience and contemporaneous sensibilities, I'm at the moment less opposed to it than in the past. So I guess you never know what the future holds.

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#4039

Post by Fergenaprido » October 11th, 2019, 4:39 am

sol wrote:
October 11th, 2019, 4:23 am
This is the Gangster list:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/101+ ... kasparius/

Get Shorty becomes an Official Check! B)

If Ferg is correct about the red one being a Japanese flag, that would then probably make it...

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/japa ... ato/adamh/

...which seems very strange since it was the tenth lowest rated option in the poll and had more 0 and -1 votes than 3 or 4 votes. :shrug:

I suppose we'll get Oscar Best Documentary one of these days. :folded: I mean if it keeps getting top 5 places in user polls it would be weird to ignore that.
It's tenth lowest in that poll, but remember that was the final poll. There were so many lists that didn't make the finals, so it's like being 10th last at the Olympics... you still had to beat a lot of other people just to get there. Mind you, seems odd to adopt a Japanese list that stops in 1994.

Since it's not Japanese though, it looks kind of horrorish. Could it be the European Horror list? https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/bfi+ ... pronikoff/

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#4040

Post by sol » October 11th, 2019, 4:43 am

It could also be the Black Film Canon: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/blac ... aldwell75/
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