Lonewolf2003 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2021, 11:39 pm
I want to add that a big reason for this list being adopted is also due to how it was constructed; a poll of large pool of various experts. Any list made like that is almost automatically adoptionworthy ... While one can definitely argue this list doesn’t cover the largest gap on iCM and therefor shouldn't have the highest priority... I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble... but priority isn’t the only measure a set of adoptions are chosen by (at least not when I was mid, it may change). Having a general best of list for Asian cinema might even open the port for more deep dive lists.
I guess that's what my brain struggles with the most. Certain criteria are clearly very important for adoption, while others barely matter. I do feel that with that current balance, certain things are definitely lost in the process between intention and result. To say this is meant to be an introductory list based on merely size and methods of origin just doesn't compute for me. To have something then that doesn't properly cover the breadth of Asian cinema is counterproductive. To me it sounds as if once it is established a certain list is needed on ICM, it becomes some kind of best effort operation rather than a quest to find an actual valuable list.
But please correct me if I'm wrong
Lonewolf2003 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2021, 11:39 pm
The list being a best of list of various filmmakers and critics organized by a film festival does mean it consists of critics and festival favorites. This could be considered an inherent flaw, and result in list of many that already are in other lists. For others this being the top choices of these participants is the strength of the list.
I would say that if you picked the list with a specific goal in mind, the quality of a list shouldn't be dependent on how interesting individuals think the list is for them, but how well the list accomplishes its goals.
mjf314 wrote: ↑April 9th, 2021, 2:07 am
Here's my attempt at creating an introduction to Asian cinema: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mjf3 ... ma/mjf314/
I used BIFF as a starting point, and then started making changes. It shares 47 films with BIFF. I think it has a bit more genre variety and more mainstream films than BIFF, but I'm not sure if it's good enough to get the Onderhond Seal of Approval.
Well, it does seem a bit slighted to things I would appreciate, but I definitely feel you made a lot of smart choices.
For example, I think 5 animes is definitely too much. There's no real need to have Akira and GitS together in this list. Depending on the balance 1 or 2 spots for a particular area of Asian cinema should suffice. If it's just one spot for anime, then you can have a discussion whether you'd prefer a film that eases people into the genre (like Spirited Away) or one the best represents the distinctive qualities of the genre (like Akira). I think both approaches are valuable, but these are the kind of discussions I'd prefer to have about a list like this.
The inclusion of Infernal Affairs is another good choice. Again, you can discuss whether it isn't better filled by a To film if we're going to represent HK crime cinema, but both options would be very logical. Having a Stephen Chow comedy in there is also smart, because comedy is a big chunk of Hong Kong cinema, even though it may not be the part that travels best overseas. But if you want to introduce people to what Hong Kong cinema is, you cannot simply ignore it.
Same goes for choices like My Sassy Girl, insanely popular film in Asia, covers a genre you don't often find in lists like these and deserves its spot there. A film like Lagaan seems to fill the Aamir Khan void for India and adds more than 2 of the 3 Apu films. Ong-bak is also a good choice, since it showcases Thai cinema while also giving an alternative to Hong Kong action/martial arts. Though I would go for either Ong-bak or The Raid, not both.
I do think you're definitely lacking a Shaw Bros martial arts film still (either something like 36th Chamber, or maybe a Chang Cheh one), also a Kaiju/tokusatsu film (Gojira is an obvious choice, maybe not the best representative, then again picking some mid-series film may also be rather awkward). I also would get rid of either Shoplifters/Parasite, same for Audition/Battle Royale, since they more or less cover similar grounds and eras. And probably some thing I'm missing now because I really should be working instead of evaluating an introductory Asia list
Oh, and what me laugh really hard was the inclusion of both Kiali Blues and An Elephant Sitting Still. I was actually willing to make a bet with the list mods that if these two films would appear on the future update they make the list unofficial again, but your list beat me to the punch
I might include one of them, but since China's commercial/genre leg went from 0 to Hollywood contender in less than 20 years, you need to have something to represent that too.
So yeah, I definitely think this list is better, though when it comes to inclusions of films outside the East-Asian countries there are certainly other people who have much more interesting things to say.