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New Official List Discussion

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Lonewolf2003
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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4881

Post by Lonewolf2003 » August 22nd, 2020, 6:09 pm

A newer list doesn't automatically means a better list, especially for a genre like martial arts in which the heydays were in previous decades that won't be the deciding factor for us to adopt it, although it's a factor we will take into consideration.

This discussion made me look into the missing movie in the Wei Jun Zi list. Alas, I couldn’t. But I did notices some idiosyncrasies: Both Lung siu yeh (Dragon Lord) and Fei ying gai wak (Armour of God 2: Operation Condor) appear two times in the source
see:
Armour of God first mention and second mention
Dragon lord first mention and second mention
I tried to find the difference to see if one of those were the missing movie, even using the original names to search on TMDB, but couldn’t. Maybe somebody who speak Chinese, can find the missing movie? I kind of expect that it's a Kill Bill situation, were both are meant as entry while only one is mentioned. Which seems also be the case for Fong sai yuk and Fong sai yuk 2,

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sol
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#4882

Post by sol » August 23rd, 2020, 2:29 am

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 6:09 pm
A newer list doesn't automatically means a better list, especially for a genre like martial arts in which the heydays were in previous decades that won't be the deciding factor for us to adopt it, although it's a factor we will take into consideration.
So what do the list-mods think about having two Official Martial Arts lists? Might be the best way to reflect the broad spectrum of martial arts movies.
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Lonewolf2003
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#4883

Post by Lonewolf2003 » August 23rd, 2020, 9:38 am

sol wrote:
August 23rd, 2020, 2:29 am
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 6:09 pm
A newer list doesn't automatically means a better list, especially for a genre like martial arts in which the heydays were in previous decades that won't be the deciding factor for us to adopt it, although it's a factor we will take into consideration.
So what do the list-mods think about having two Official Martial Arts lists? Might be the best way to reflect the broad spectrum of martial arts movies.
For various reasons we set a limit on the amount of official lists we aim for per subject. And we feel that for a subgenre like martial arts one list is sufficient. If we adopt another martial arts list I rather have one that really focuses on another/specific aspect of the genre, like a Wuxia list.

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#4884

Post by dirty_score » September 10th, 2020, 4:52 pm

Danny Peary's Newer Cult Movie Recommendations

I think this could be a nice companion piece to the Jennifer Eiss's 500 Essential Cult Movies.

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1SO
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#4885

Post by 1SO » September 10th, 2020, 6:26 pm

I love Danny Peary, but I would hate if Zombie Ass: Toilet of the Dead became an Official Check.

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#4886

Post by Torgo » September 10th, 2020, 7:14 pm

dirty_score wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 4:52 pm
Danny Peary's Newer Cult Movie Recommendations

I think this could be a nice companion piece to the Jennifer Eiss's 500 Essential Cult Movies.
I always struggle with the definition of "cult" - it's something that gets more vague the more you try to explain it - but that list doesn't look too off. (Except for a few titles that were inherently just too successful and popular, like The Departed, The Green Mile or No Country For Old Men; do those feel "cult" to you?)
Altogether, I like the list, have already a ton of checks on it and could see myself working on the rest. On the other hand, we already have Jenny's Cult Movies and the AV's Cult Canon, so I'm afraid other topics might get addressed first. Although, personally, I see how that label will attract many film fans :sweat:
Last edited by Torgo on September 10th, 2020, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4887

Post by Torgo » September 10th, 2020, 7:47 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 6:59 pm
xianjiro wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 6:42 pm
sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Also, I hope the mods are still considering the Caribbean list that I highlighted a few months ago. Definitely an area that could benefit from more exposure.
Is it on your iCM list page? I think I missed it and am certainly curious. edit: just checked by didn't find it.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cari ... /ataraxic/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/classics/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/who-we-are/
The Carribean list appears to be exotic and helpful enough, I support the idea :turned:

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#4888

Post by Torgo » September 10th, 2020, 8:04 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:40 pm
From popular genre films to cult avant-garde works, this book is an essential guide to Japan's vibrant cinema culture. It collects two decades of the best of Mark Schilling's film writing for Variety, Japan Times, and other publications. The book offers an in-depth look at hundreds of landmark Japanese movies as well as undeservedly neglected ones. The essays and detailed analyses are interwoven with more than sixty interviews showcasing Japan's most talented directors and stars. This book enables students, teachers, and lovers of Japanese cinema to make new discoveries while learning more about their favorite films.

Mark Schilling set off for Japan in 1975 to immerse himself in the culture, learn the language, and haunt the theaters. He has been there ever since. In 1989 he became a regular film reviewer for The Japan Times, and has written on Japanese film for publications including Variety, Screen International, Premier, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Japan Quarterly, Winds, Cinemaya, and Kinema Jumpo.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... onderhond/

This is such a great list for Japan.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... plists&asc

Great list, but it's a bit short. I'm looking further.

https://www.easternkicks.com/features/t ... the-decade

Also a great list, will add this to ICM.
Since it's plain ridiculous that we only have one freaking Japanese top list and as we're lacking modern cinema from Japan, the Mark Schilling list would make so much sense! I came by to grumble about that issue again :whistling: , good I only had to look 5 pages backwards to find a suitable solution :thumbsup:

For comparison:
France: 2 top 100 lists, 1 national award
UK: 2 top 100 lists
Spain: 2 top 100 lists, 1 national award
Italy: 2 top lists with 100 + 250 entries
Russia: 2 top 100 lists
Poland: 2 top lists; 100 + 130
South Korea: 2 top 100 lists
China: 2 top 100 lists + even 200 for Hong Kong + 100 for Martial Arts


No one would argue what an important film nation Japan is, yet there we are: 1 list and the anime list (and the samurai list, well). 24 films from the Junpo list are newer than 1993, by the way. :ermm:


Oh .. Germany could also use another list, one day :sweat: Really liked the addition of the Lola award back then, good choice to support newer entries. National film awards are always a good idea. Hell, give me the Mark Schilling list AND the one for the Japanese prize - I'll gladly take them!

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#4889

Post by Torgo » September 10th, 2020, 8:20 pm

Also, something for which I lobbied approximately 5 years ago:
Finally give us a genre tab.
So much could wander into it and maybe remind us of what ICM is lacking now.
Remove the misc tab for it - 3 1/2 of them are genre-lists anyway, Jenny and Taschen will be critics (and an institute respectively?) then

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#4890

Post by Onderhond » September 10th, 2020, 8:22 pm

1SO wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 6:26 pm
I love Danny Peary, but I would hate if Zombie Ass: Toilet of the Dead became an Official Check.
Why? It's a funny film.

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#4891

Post by dirty_score » September 10th, 2020, 8:50 pm

1SO wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 6:26 pm
I love Danny Peary, but I would hate if Zombie Ass: Toilet of the Dead became an Official Check.
Someday, somehow, it will be official. Most probably in the zombies list. But I can see being a great contender for ICM's Forum <400 or Doubling the canon :P


Torgo wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 7:14 pm
dirty_score wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 4:52 pm
Danny Peary's Newer Cult Movie Recommendations

I think this could be a nice companion piece to the Jennifer Eiss's 500 Essential Cult Movies.
I always struggle with the definition of "cult" - it's something that gets more vague the more you try to explain it - but that list doesn't look too off. (Except for a few titles that were inherently just too successful and popular, like The Departed, The Green Mile or No Country For Old Men; do those feel "cult" to you?)
Altogether, I like the list, have already a ton of checks on it and could see myself working on the rest. On the other hand, we already have Jenny's Cult Movies and the AV's Cult Canon, so I'm afraid other topics might get addressed first. Although, personally, I see how that label will attract many film fans :sweat:
Anything that as considerably sized fans can be considered cult. Whether is something obscure or popular like Star Trek. Now, that definition of 'cult' is, indeed, extremely vague and even the experts have trouble getting consensus. There's plenty of reasons of why this or that film is considered cult but to answer your question, those movies don't feel 'cult' to me but then there's plenty of films considered 'cult' that I've asked myself "why is this considered cult?" and then I go read about them and some I can get why, while some I still don't.

The AV's Cult Canon list was created by Scott Tobias, who got inspired by the Cult books of Danny Peary. The list is nice but since he ended the project some years ago, one has to wonder how the list would be today, so I think this list somehow expands that idea while also serving as a spiritual sequel to Jennifer Eiss's book.

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#4892

Post by dirty_score » September 11th, 2020, 11:06 am

Onderhond wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 8:22 pm
1SO wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 6:26 pm
I love Danny Peary, but I would hate if Zombie Ass: Toilet of the Dead became an Official Check.
Why? It's a funny film.
It's a shitty film tehe

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