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The thread where we post links to lists

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Re: The thread where we post links to lists

#3921

Post by Ebbywebby » June 20th, 2020, 8:39 pm

Cool to see "Bastards of the Young" on that list. But I never check music videos unless 1) they're official checks 2) they appear on 13+ lists, because I have a quest to watch shorts on 13+ lists or 3) maybe if they're by a notable director known for more serious cinema.

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#3922

Post by erde » June 20th, 2020, 9:14 pm

mjf314 wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 6:45 pm
http://davesmusicdatabase.blogspot.com/ ... -time.html

Dave's Music Database's top 100 music videos, based on more than 70 lists, so it's like TSPDT but for music videos. This website also has various lists of the best album and songs, using a similar methodology.

https://www.greeleytribune.com/2002/11/ ... 00-videos/

VH1's top 100 music videos, voted by experts. The poll is from 2001. I'm not sure how many experts voted.

Does anyone want to add these to iCM?
Great stuff! I'll add Dave's list.
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#3923

Post by erde » June 20th, 2020, 10:12 pm

erde wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 9:14 pm
mjf314 wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 6:45 pm
http://davesmusicdatabase.blogspot.com/ ... -time.html

Dave's Music Database's top 100 music videos, based on more than 70 lists, so it's like TSPDT but for music videos. This website also has various lists of the best album and songs, using a similar methodology.

https://www.greeleytribune.com/2002/11/ ... 00-videos/

VH1's top 100 music videos, voted by experts. The poll is from 2001. I'm not sure how many experts voted.

Does anyone want to add these to iCM?
Great stuff! I'll add Dave's list.
Done! Here: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dave ... time/erde/

Just need to wait for a page for one video to arrive in ICM.

EDIT: It's done now. The list is ready for checking!
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#3924

Post by mjf314 » June 20th, 2020, 10:57 pm

I'm not sure if these have been posted yet, but I found two more music video lists.

http://www.rockonthenet.com/archive/1999/mtv100.htm
MTV's 100 Greatest Music Videos Ever Made (1999)

http://stylusmagazine.com/articles/week ... -time.html
Stylus Magazine's Top 100 Music Videos of All Time (2006)

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#3925

Post by Tasselfoot » June 21st, 2020, 9:05 pm

I know it's been talked about a bunch in the past. But an official music video list would be really neat.

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#3926

Post by mjf314 » June 21st, 2020, 9:38 pm

I found another aggregate music video list. This one is based on 34 lists. It's fewer than Dave's, which is based on more than 70, but the list is similar.

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... id=7627735 (the latest version is near the bottom of page 1)

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#3927

Post by erde » June 21st, 2020, 10:12 pm

Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 9:05 pm
I know it's been talked about a bunch in the past. But an official music video list would be really neat.
I definitely agree. I think that there are a couple of good candidates already, both critics' choice lists and agregate lists (such as Dave's).

Thanks to mjf314 for the info about new lists!
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#3928

Post by Ebbywebby » June 21st, 2020, 10:15 pm

Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 9:05 pm
I know it's been talked about a bunch in the past. But an official music video list would be really neat.
:down:

Bleh. So much of music videos' popularity just depends on the song being catchy. Is there one widely admired video that wasn't for a hit song? No need to make this stuff "official," as long as unofficial lists exist. Watching music videos doesn't make you a film buff.

I wonder if this proposal is about anything but "Ooh, I'll get 90-100 easy checks as a gift, once a video list goes official."

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#3929

Post by Tasselfoot » June 21st, 2020, 10:43 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 10:15 pm
Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 9:05 pm
I know it's been talked about a bunch in the past. But an official music video list would be really neat.
:down:

Bleh. So much of music videos' popularity just depends on the song being catchy. Is there one widely admired video that wasn't for a hit song? No need to make this stuff "official," as long as unofficial lists exist. Watching music videos doesn't make you a film buff.

I wonder if this proposal is about anything but "Ooh, I'll get 90-100 easy checks as a gift, once a video list goes official."
I've been going through the Dave list today, and just enjoying both the songs and the stories being told through the videos. I've seen many of them throughout my life... but taking them all in now is a lot of fun. Nice nostalgia, and also some cool videos that I hadn't seen before.

edit: as far as Official... there are hardly any music videos that are official. Feels like a film genre that is sorely lacking and could use promotion.

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#3930

Post by Ebbywebby » June 21st, 2020, 10:47 pm

Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 10:43 pm

there are hardly any music videos that are official.
There's a reason for that.
Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 10:43 pm

Feels like a film genre that is sorely lacking and could use promotion.
How many videos on those lists are "obscure" and overlooked by the masses?

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#3931

Post by mjf314 » June 21st, 2020, 10:58 pm

I'm not sure if this music video list has been posted yet, but I just found it. It's already on iCM. It has a 51% overlap with Dave's list.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091215163 ... sults.html
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/chan ... ime/jf-uk/
Channel 4's The 100 Greatest Pop Videos (2005)

There also seems to be a top 50 from 2010 according to this Wikipedia article, but I haven't found the full list yet.

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#3932

Post by mjf314 » June 21st, 2020, 11:01 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 10:47 pm
Tasselfoot wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 10:43 pm

there are hardly any music videos that are official.
There's a reason for that.
The reason is that the official lists have a gap, and aren't doing a good job of representing all of the important areas of cinema. We could fix it by adopting a music video list.

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#3933

Post by Ebbywebby » June 21st, 2020, 11:13 pm

And next we moan that there isn't a "Best TV Commercials" list too.

Look at the results of "unofficial checks" polls and ask yourself if music videos rival those films.

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#3934

Post by Tasselfoot » June 21st, 2020, 11:16 pm

It does feel like all of these lists skew heavily towards pre-YouTube, even the ones that are more recent lists. And while I do get that... that music videos have changed from the MTV days to the current YouTube, it does feel like a big miss to not include them. There have been some great and creative music videos made in the past 10 years. Look at anything by OK Go.

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#3935

Post by mjf314 » June 21st, 2020, 11:23 pm

I'm not sure if there are any good all-time lists that were published recently, but Billboard published a 21st century list in 2018, and a 2010s list in 2019. They don't seem to be on iCM yet.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news ... st-century
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news ... 0s-top-100

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#3936

Post by Onderhond » June 22nd, 2020, 8:46 am

I'm not necessarily against a music video list, but when it's going to be Madonna, Michael Jackson and Radiohead, then no thanks!

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#3937

Post by Teproc » June 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am

I'm all for a music videos list, and I'm not sure I get the arguments against it. Music videos are just a specific type of short movies, aren't they?

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#3938

Post by Onderhond » June 22nd, 2020, 9:16 am

Teproc wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am
I'm all for a music videos list, and I'm not sure I get the arguments against it. Music videos are just a specific type of short movies, aren't they?
There's a grey area there I think. Some of them are, but ultimately many music videos are often just ads for songs (and artists).
You may start introducing extra rules (like no performing artists allowed), but no doubt that will become very messy.

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#3939

Post by Teproc » June 22nd, 2020, 9:20 am

Onderhond wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:16 am
Teproc wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am
I'm all for a music videos list, and I'm not sure I get the arguments against it. Music videos are just a specific type of short movies, aren't they?
There's a grey area there I think. Some of them are, but ultimately many music videos are often just ads for songs (and artists).
You may start introducing extra rules (like no performing artists allowed), but no doubt that will become very messy.
As it was alluded to above, I would have no issue with commercials either, because they're also just short films. Same with trailers, really, bring on a "Best trailers" list. Most films are made in the marketplace, should we discount them? If we agree that we shouldn't, I don't see what the argument is against music videos or commercials (or indeed trailers).

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#3940

Post by Onderhond » June 22nd, 2020, 9:34 am

Teproc wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:20 am
Most films are made in the marketplace, should we discount them?
But they are rarely the byproduct of something else. Films end up in the market place, ads start in the market place.

Again, not explicitly against any of these lists, but only with clear guidelines for entry criteria.

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#3941

Post by mjf314 » June 22nd, 2020, 2:47 pm

Onderhond wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:34 am
Again, not explicitly against any of these lists, but only with clear guidelines for entry criteria.
The guideline for the Channel 4 list is "greatest". I don't think any other guideline is needed.

Dave's list is a "top 100", which implies greatest, but it's not very clear. Unfortunately he doesn't tell us which lists he used.

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#3942

Post by mjf314 » June 22nd, 2020, 5:25 pm

https://entertainment.time.com/2011/07/ ... ic-videos/
Time's The 30 All-TIME Best Music Videos (2011)

The list is chronological.

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#3943

Post by mjf314 » June 22nd, 2020, 10:57 pm

This was posted in the art lists thread, so I'm reposting it here:

https://www.treasuretv.org/
TreasureTV's The Greatest TV Series of All-Time

Based on 1677 lists. So it's like TSPDT, but for TV.

I'm surprised that neither Dekalog nor Berlin Alexanderplatz made the top 500.

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#3944

Post by OldAle1 » June 22nd, 2020, 11:17 pm

mjf314 wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 10:57 pm
This was posted in the art lists thread, so I'm reposting it here:

https://www.treasuretv.org/
TreasureTV's The Greatest TV Series of All-Time

Based on 1677 lists. So it's like TSPDT, but for TV.

I'm surprised that neither Dekalog nor Berlin Alexanderplatz made the top 500.
I'm far from a TV expert but just at a glance I only see two series that aren't English language in the top 100, and they're both anime (Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion). So maybe not so surprising?

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#3945

Post by frbrown » June 23rd, 2020, 12:28 am

OldAle1 wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 11:17 pm
mjf314 wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 10:57 pm
This was posted in the art lists thread, so I'm reposting it here:

https://www.treasuretv.org/
TreasureTV's The Greatest TV Series of All-Time

Based on 1677 lists. So it's like TSPDT, but for TV.

I'm surprised that neither Dekalog nor Berlin Alexanderplatz made the top 500.
I'm far from a TV expert but just at a glance I only see two series that aren't English language in the top 100, and they're both anime (Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion). So maybe not so surprising?
Listings by country

https://www.treasuretv.org/countries

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#3946

Post by mjf314 » June 23rd, 2020, 1:00 am

I found a thread made by the person who created treasuretv.org: http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/forums/vi ... php?t=7580
(I'm assuming that Nelson V. and ValenN are the same person, because the initials match)

"Hopefully once this is all done the top 100 will feature a great variety of shows from all over the globe, across all kinds of eras and genres." I guess he still has more work to do.

Edit: I found another thread where he links to the site, so it's definitely the same person: http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/forums/vi ... php?t=6744

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#3947

Post by allisoncm » June 23rd, 2020, 2:56 am

mjf314 wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:45 pm
Onderhond wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:14 pm
Well, sticking to official lists is pretty much the same as avoiding (for "foreign"/contemporary cinema at least) :ph43r:
What if I started working on the list before it became official?
It's not as if that's never happened here before.

From the new HK list, only 5 checks from me.

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#3948

Post by flavo5000 » June 23rd, 2020, 8:52 pm

Onderhond wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:16 am
Teproc wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am
I'm all for a music videos list, and I'm not sure I get the arguments against it. Music videos are just a specific type of short movies, aren't they?
There's a grey area there I think. Some of them are, but ultimately many music videos are often just ads for songs (and artists).
You may start introducing extra rules (like no performing artists allowed), but no doubt that will become very messy.
Many music videos are seen as highly creative endeavors on the part of the filmmakers involved. Many very well-known and well-respected have made music videos like Paul Thomas Anderson, Michel Gondry, Johnathan Glaser, Spike Jones, David Fincher.... Heck even Martin Scorsese directed Michael Jackson's "Bad". Jackson in particular kind of pioneered the idea of the music video as a mini-movie. In addition to Scorsese, he also had several other major directors do his videos like John Landis ("Thriller" & "Black & White"), Francis Ford Coppola ("Captain EO"), John Singleton ("Remember The Time"), Mark Romanek ("Scream"), David Fincher ("Who Is It") and even special effects maestro Stan Winston ("Ghosts").

I honestly don't see music videos as any different than regular films. Yes, there are a lot of music videos that are just extended commercials but how many movies out there are soulless commercial grabs as well totally lacking in artistry? Many big budget movies have so much product placement that they basically play as feature-length commercials at times. I personally think a music video list would be a nice addition. I'm not 100% sold on the ones posted so far though. They're more popularity contests than legit actually artistic music videos.

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#3949

Post by Onderhond » June 23rd, 2020, 9:24 pm

You don't have to sell me on the worth of music videos, nor the fact that some are equal or even better than shorts. But I'm not talking about some Michael Jackson or Madonna videos then, regardless of who directed them.

Also don't agree with the product placement or "soulless commercial grabs" comments. There certainly is a spectrum of commercial intent, but with films it's extremely rare that the film itself is not the product, with music videos that's the norm.



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#3952

Post by Fergenaprido » July 11th, 2020, 7:49 pm


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#3953

Post by dirty_score » July 12th, 2020, 8:24 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 7:49 pm
This was added to icm last year :)
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... pgonzalez/
Nice, I didn't know that... but the article says it was pusblished in March 2020 :shrug:

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#3954

Post by mjf314 » July 16th, 2020, 11:20 pm

These lists are from last year, but I don't think they've been posted in this thread yet.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/bo ... the-2000s/
Paste's The 20 Best Bollywood Movies of the 2000s

https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/bo ... ies-2010s/
Paste's The Best Bollywood Movies of the 2010s


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#3956

Post by beavis » July 19th, 2020, 7:59 am

https://www.cinemaescapist.com/2019/02/ ... vies-list/

This list i found mentioned as one of the lists used in a challenge mentioned in the 500<400 thread, it listst the best movie from all African countries

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#3957

Post by Fergenaprido » July 21st, 2020, 8:25 am

beavis wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 7:59 am
https://www.cinemaescapist.com/2019/02/ ... vies-list/

This list i found mentioned as one of the lists used in a challenge mentioned in the 500<400 thread, it listst the best movie from all African countries
Thanks for sharing. I don't think it's a good list, but it's interesting enough and it definitely covers a gap in most people's watching, so I added it to icm: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cine ... genaprido/
It may be useful for those completing the Around the World challenge as well.

Personally, I've seen 11, with another 14 lined up in my watchlist queue. Many of the others were completely unknown to me, though, so it's nice to discover some new ones.

Three of the films are missing from imdb.

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#3958

Post by beavis » July 21st, 2020, 4:05 pm

thanks for adding it! makes it much easier to browse the list ;) seen 13/51 at the moment. Some others were already on my watchlist and one or two I discovered through this list. While reading the descriptions I found all of it well researched and well considered. Maybe this type of list is not ideal, with so many of the countries not having a real cinema production to speak of, but for what it wants to be I think it is a very good list, and it does indeed cover a gap, at least I found it useful.

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#3959

Post by OldAle1 » July 21st, 2020, 4:16 pm

beavis wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 4:05 pm
thanks for adding it! makes it much easier to browse the list ;) seen 13/51 at the moment. Some others were already on my watchlist and one or two I discovered through this list. While reading the descriptions I found all of it well researched and well considered. Maybe this type of list is not ideal, with so many of the countries not having a real cinema production to speak of, but for what it wants to be I think it is a very good list, and it does indeed cover a gap, at least I found it useful.
Agreed with your points. I'm not one of those who's ever been focused on seeing a movie from each country - that kind of quest just doesn't much interest me, particularly when you have some countries with such minimal outputs, and maybe no great or even good films, and most of their films heavily financed by France or the UK, etc. The main reason to see such films is an educational one, which I think is valuable - just not as valuable as other kinds of education about the world for me, I guess. But having all of those films in one place is great, and I largely agree with the ones I have seen that are from countries I've seen several films from, which leads me to believe that it's probably a thoughtfully put together list. Will definitely add some of those to the never-ending watchlist.

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#3960

Post by Fergenaprido » July 21st, 2020, 4:55 pm

Oh, I'm not arguing it's not well thought out or researched... on the contrary I think the author has done a lot to seek out films from the continent. But given that some countries don't have a representative film so stand-ins were chosen disqualifies it for consideration for adoption (if that's what people were hoping), however I do see merit in the list itself, and will use it as a resource as I continue to seek out more African films. I read some more by the author on that site, though, and I don't care for his approach/opinion/style, and while I agree with him on some films from the countries I've seen (including some surprising choices), I disagree with him on others.

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