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Assigning categories to personal lists

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monk-time
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Assigning categories to personal lists

#1

Post by monk-time »

Continuing the discussion started here. Right now 14918 personal lists are split into categories like this:

personal: 10828
website: 957
director: 678
critics: 496
actor: 439
misc: 372
award: 317
country: 306
film series: 173
institute: 168
imdb: 94
studio: 90

'Personal' is the category that gets assigned to a list by default. Unfortunately you cannot change the category when creating a list, only when editing it afterwards. Because of that 73% of lists are essentially uncategorized, and I suspect at least half of them are not purely personal lists and should not stay in the 'personal' category. For example, searching for 'filmography' in list title finds at least 1000 lists in that category instead of a more fitting category 'actor' or 'director'. Correct category data can then be used by e.g. ICM Enhanced to tidy up /movies/moviename/rankings/ pages even further.

I wrote a proof-of-concept python script for editing list category remotely, and apart from one flaw* it's totally doable to give a script a list of urls and their new category and it will move them all automatically. I also assume that mods can edit list info for any list and that the UI looks just the same as for a regular user.

This is the workflow I imagine for assigning categories with a minimal amount of effort:
  • generate a Google Sheet with links and names of all uncategorized lists
  • allow volunteers to edit it however they like so that as many lists as possible have a proper category name in a cell next to them
  • export the sheet and send it and the script to a mod
  • a mod inserts their cookie values into the script and runs it
The script cuts down on the amount of work significantly but someone still has to tinker with an 11k row table. So what do you all think? Is this worth the hassle?

*: One nasty ICM bug causes all tags to disappear when editing list info. It's possible though to work around it by scraping tags separately and providing them back to the server.
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Armoreska
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#2

Post by Armoreska »

Yes please but I do wonder if there's enough collective interest in all this.
he or A. or Armo or any

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the rest
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and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
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#3

Post by monk-time »

Me too. I just wanted to make sure it's technically possible before gauging the interest.
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#4

Post by joachimt »

monk-time wrote: April 14th, 2021, 9:04 am I also assume that mods can edit list info for any list
Here's your problem. We can't change anything on non-official lists.

Apart from that:
I never changed the category of any of my lists. I never really thought about doing it. But now I read your post I thought it made sense. But then I went to a personal list and was wondering what the point would be. You don't see that info except when viewing a list of lists on normal view. Can you search lists by tags?
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#5

Post by monk-time »

joachimt wrote: April 14th, 2021, 5:16 pm Here's your problem. We can't change anything on non-official lists.
Whoops. Yeah, that's a major wrench in the works. :lol:
joachimt wrote: April 14th, 2021, 5:16 pm But then I went to a personal list and was wondering what the point would be. You don't see that info except when viewing a list of lists on normal view. Can you search lists by tags?
One thing that we've been hashing out with Armoreska is customizing how pages likes this one look when using ICME's feature "Group movie lists". I use it all the time e.g. when estimating which movie to watch in a filmography, I open "in # top lists" links and then get a nice overview of lists containing that movie, with important ones moved to the top. This tells me a lot about what I can expect from a movie.

And to tidy up those pages even further the script would require more properly categorized lists. Also, yeah, you can search lists by categories, type "category:award" into the tag filter on the Personal lists page and you'll see the same page I linked in the first post.
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#6

Post by mjf314 »

joachimt wrote: April 14th, 2021, 5:16 pm Here's your problem. We can't change anything on non-official lists.
Actually you can. I just tested it. You just need to manually edit the URL to get to the edit list page (but if there are multiple lists with the same name, you can only edit one of them).

I was able to edit the title, description, and category (I used my alt account to test it), but when I tried to add or remove movies, I got an error. I wasn't able to change a private list to public.

Before anyone starts editing personal lists, I suggest talking to Marijn about it. I'm not sure if he would want us to do that.

Personally I don't use the categories for filtering, so it's not something that I would find useful.
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#7

Post by joachimt »

This sounds like a unintended feature of iCM.
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#8

Post by xianjiro »

I've just been going through my lists and most already had a proper category, however, I'm not sure which category to assign to a list of ICMForum Film Festival films - website might be the best option, but it begs the bigger question, why don't we have a Festival category or at least attach to a meaningful existing category? I've changed my list to website, but that wouldn't make sense for Sundance 2018 (if I had such a list).

edit: we also ignore print media - do we want those to go along with websites since they share the concept of info dispersal? Also lists would likely serve a similar purpose. There's little difference between SciFi movie website, magazine, or even book of best SciFi movies.
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#9

Post by monk-time »

mjf314 wrote: April 14th, 2021, 6:48 pm (but if there are multiple lists with the same name, you can only edit one of them).
Oh wow, I was wondering whether that would happen when I noticed that urls for editing a list don't have a username in them.
mjf314 wrote: April 14th, 2021, 6:48 pm Before anyone starts editing personal lists, I suggest talking to Marijn about it. I'm not sure if he would want us to do that.
Good point, this was another assumption of mine that it would be okay for mods to edit that stuff.

I think this leads to a wider question about personal lists and how they fit into the 'mission' of ICM as a curated collection of lists. Are personal lists an unmoderated "here be dragons" zone of the site or an extended collection of decent lists. In all honesty though I dunno if I can tell whether it's just the obsessive part of my brain that is chomping at the bit about the idea of "cleaning up" that mess, usefulness be damned.

ICME can definitely use that data for neater /rankings/. Maybe we can come up with other uses.
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#10

Post by xianjiro »

monk-time wrote: April 14th, 2021, 8:17 pm I think this leads to a wider question about personal lists and how they fit into the 'mission' of ICM as a curated collection of lists. Are personal lists an unmoderated "here be dragons" zone of the site or an extended collection of decent lists. In all honesty though I dunno if I can tell whether it's just the obsessive part of my brain that is chomping at the bit about the idea of "cleaning up" that mess, usefulness be damned.
I'd say they are both. I use iCM so much, that it just made better sense to put my Netflix watchlist on it. I don't see this as having any use to anyone and it should be private (but I believe we proved such lists can still be found, not sure if they are for the purpose of our discussion here).

However, while I haven't made a list - say, xianjiro's Best Train Movies - that would in fact be a curated list. We just had a curated Intro to Asia list created by a user that would be a useful, curated, personal list. Isn't there a famed Samurai list from Monty? Again, higher quality, curated list. These should be flagged in some fashion as the cream of all the personal lists, but I don't believe we have that option. :(
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#11

Post by Armoreska »

mjf314 wrote: April 14th, 2021, 6:48 pm Before anyone starts editing personal lists, I suggest talking to Marijn about it. I'm not sure if he would want us to do that.
I imagine gauging public perception of the ethics of such a move and of interest in it would be interesting (as well as again, promote the setting itself). Also, there's potential for some troll to spam the site with incorrectly tagged lists, which would necessitate similar involvement anyway.

@xianjiro
why don't we have a Festival category
an ICM Forum category (there's a lot of those lists now, possibly more than IMDb ones? at least the official ones) would also promote the unofficial forum
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#12

Post by xianjiro »

Armoreska wrote: April 15th, 2021, 10:24 am
@xianjiro
why don't we have a Festival category
an ICM Forum category (there's a lot of those lists now, possibly more than IMDb ones? at least the official ones) would also promote the unofficial forum
true, that would make sense and the forum does produce a lot of lists! While it's also a website, given the context and much like IMDb being a separate category, I think you're right, it would make sense though forum promotion would be less of a driver in my mind. It's more about organizing the data.
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