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Question regarding Doubling the Canon

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Question regarding Doubling the Canon

#1

Post by List Promoter » March 2nd, 2020, 8:04 am

The goal with Doubling the Canon was to expand TSPDT 1-1000 with an additional ~1000 movies. All fair and all good. But now when TSPDT #1001-2000 is available and about to be adopted (it should have been adopted instantly), why is it still that big of a deal to continue "doubling the canon" when the canon is already doubled?

TSPDT does a much better job at doubling its original canon of movies ranked #1-1000 themselves than "cinephiles". Sorry, but for the average viewer the Doubling the Canon-list just seem extremely unnecessary to still be official. What is the motivation behind it and why is it so important to compete with TSPDT 1001-2000 by making another list?

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#2

Post by 72aicm » March 2nd, 2020, 8:08 am

If anything the DtC list should be 1000 movies bigger now that TSPD 1001-2000 exist. :D

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#3

Post by List Promoter » March 2nd, 2020, 8:20 am

Yeah exactly 72aicm, the name of the list itself doesn't make sense either now when TSPDT 1001-2000 is available.

You forum and list lovers do realize that Doubling the Canon doesn't make much sense anymore right? Please motivate WHY it should be official in this post-TSPDT #1001-2000-age.

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#4

Post by jal90 » March 2nd, 2020, 9:23 am

As far as I understand, Doubling the Canon intends to create a user-based list of 1000 films, as opposed and complementary to a critic aggregate list.

So it still makes sense even with a TSPDT #1001-2000 that is basically further expanding the critic aggregate list and picking the next thousand films as voted by the exact same people. It's not doubling its canon. It's just further expanding the list with the same stats.

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#5

Post by List Promoter » March 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am

OK, thanks for clearing that up jal90.

Films ranked in TSPDT #1001-2000 are ineligible for DtC right?

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#6

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:09 am

Now that I think about it, has anyone seen an (unofficial) extension to one of my most favorite lists? NO, not IMDb Top Rated Indian Movies, but The 21st Century's Most Acclaimed Films - both the sequel (1002-2000+) and The 21st Century's Most (formerly) Acclaimed Films

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#7

Post by beavis » March 3rd, 2020, 9:23 am

jal90 wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 9:23 am
As far as I understand, Doubling the Canon intends to create a user-based list of 1000 films, as opposed and complementary to a critic aggregate list.

So it still makes sense even with a TSPDT #1001-2000 that is basically further expanding the critic aggregate list and picking the next thousand films as voted by the exact same people. It's not doubling its canon. It's just further expanding the list with the same stats.
this hits in on the head

I do think it would look nicer if the DtC list would go back to a top1000 instead of 1200 though

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#8

Post by beavis » March 3rd, 2020, 9:26 am

List Promoter wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am
OK, thanks for clearing that up jal90.

Films ranked in TSPDT #1001-2000 are ineligible for DtC right?
Angel has spoken out that for this year's update, the 1001-2000 is not counted as official yet, so they are aloud to cross over into DtC
I don't think this is what most users / participants in DtC want, but he also said there is a lot going on personally for him at the moment, so it is understandable that he might not want the extra hassle of looking into this...
Last edited by beavis on March 3rd, 2020, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#9

Post by rnilsson19 » March 3rd, 2020, 11:17 am

I am off the opinion that DTC should continue on without changes. It's not like it's an iCM exclusive project, it started before ICM and shouldn't be affected that a list that has already has been around for ages has suddenly been adopted by the site. I think it's a strange decision by the staff to adopt such a dull list of also-rans when DTC already exists.

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#10

Post by dirty_score » March 3rd, 2020, 11:56 am

You're wrong, It's an ICM exclusive project! It's mostly voted for some members in this forum, especially after the :imdb: boards demise. After the adoption of the new list, Doubling the Canon doesn't make sense to stay official.

I know that out of respect for Angel they're not gonna do it but the thing is, you all could STILL make your annual thingy even if the list became unofficial.

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#11

Post by beavis » March 3rd, 2020, 12:11 pm

Angel have said in the past he would very much like the additional 1000 to be official on ICM, and he would then exclude those titles for Doubling. He liked that it would shake up Doubling somewhat... not that people would suggest to make Doubling lose official status.

Also for people against adoption of the next 1000, you should have spoken up louder during the polls about which lists you would like to see official, ever since the results of those polls it has been known there was a majority in favor of adopting that list

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#12

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 3rd, 2020, 12:58 pm

I always thought the title of the list, Doubling the Canon, doesn’t fit the nature of it anymore, it’s too obscure and eccentric to be canon. Beyond the Canon would be a better title I think.

Anyhow I’m don’t see reason to unadopt the list. Cause the nature and goal of the lists are different.

Nor do I really get why TSPDT1001-2000 being official or not is of any influence on the eligibility of those movies for DtC.

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#13

Post by nimimerkillinen » March 3rd, 2020, 1:06 pm

i like that the 1000-2000 movies are excluded and wouldnt mind having 2000 titles on doubling the canon too

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#14

Post by erde » March 3rd, 2020, 2:35 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 12:58 pm
I always thought the title of the list, Doubling the Canon, doesn’t fit the nature of it anymore, it’s too obscure and eccentric to be canon. Beyond the Canon would be a better title I think.

Anyhow I’m don’t see reason to unadopt the list. Cause the nature and goal of the lists are different.

Nor do I really get why TSPDT1001-2000 being official or not is of any influence on the eligibility of those movies for DtC.
I agree that, since it differs by nature from the TSPDT lists, the name "Doubling the canon" does not exactly suit it well. In my opinion, it's more like complementing, accompanying, reinforcing the canon, or something like that.

Because it complements the TSPDT list with its different premise, I think that it's good to keep the DtC list official, but at the same time exclude the TSPDT 1-2000 films from it, just like Beavis said.
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#15

Post by List Promoter » March 3rd, 2020, 3:00 pm

Great and sound discussion. It seems though that DtC still exist today solely because people on this forum want some of their favorite films to be official checks. When will you be satisfied? You already have the Most favorite and 500<400 list...

Beyond the Canon is a much better title for the list. Adopting TSPDT #1001-2000 is the way to go.

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#16

Post by joachimt » March 3rd, 2020, 4:13 pm

List Promoter wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 3:00 pm
Great and sound discussion. It seems though that DtC still exist today solely because people on this forum want some of their favorite films to be official checks. When will you be satisfied? You already have the Most favorite and 500<400 list...
The list still exists because Angel still continues the project. It started on IMDb, then it also went on icmforum and szfcvw (whatever, I never remember). Since IMDb-boards died, it's only the last two. It's Angel's project, not the project of this forum.
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#17

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:51 pm

rnilsson19 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 11:17 am
I am off the opinion that DTC should continue on without changes. It's not like it's an iCM exclusive project, it started before ICM and shouldn't be affected that a list that has already has been around for ages has suddenly been adopted by the site. I think it's a strange decision by the staff to adopt such a dull list of also-rans when DTC already exists.
by also rans - you mean TSPDT 1000+, right? I thought it did pretty well in the user poll on the official forum

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#18

Post by xianjiro » March 3rd, 2020, 9:58 pm

erde wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 2:35 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 12:58 pm
I always thought the title of the list, Doubling the Canon, doesn’t fit the nature of it anymore, it’s too obscure and eccentric to be canon. Beyond the Canon would be a better title I think.

Anyhow I’m don’t see reason to unadopt the list. Cause the nature and goal of the lists are different.

Nor do I really get why TSPDT1001-2000 being official or not is of any influence on the eligibility of those movies for DtC.
I agree that, since it differs by nature from the TSPDT lists, the name "Doubling the canon" does not exactly suit it well. In my opinion, it's more like complementing, accompanying, reinforcing the canon, or something like that.

Because it complements the TSPDT list with its different premise, I think that it's good to keep the DtC list official, but at the same time exclude the TSPDT 1-2000 films from it, just like Beavis said.
changing the name from DtC would have to be (at least) Angel's call. I don't know if he's a stand-alone operation or has any help, but I've always understood that while iCM members do nominate and vote, and the process was moved here when IMDb killed their forums, it's not the only way people participate.

The one thing about TSPDT 1000+ I'm not excited about is it only adds about 25 new checks! I might be slightly wrong on the number since I looked at that when the announcement first leaked around here. That really surprised me though in 2010, if I understand correctly, Angel will exclude those titles from DtC contention, so that might actually move single list movies from DtC to TSPDT 1000+ (and sorry for the shorthand, I can never remember the REAL title and am too lazy to look it up)

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#19

Post by fori » March 4th, 2020, 1:34 am

DtC should be scrapped as an official list. There are so many other democratic lists that have far more
A. participants and B. rigorous selection processes
Hell, the IMDb Indian films list is more legit.

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#20

Post by List Promoter » March 4th, 2020, 9:44 am

Word fori.

This (the scrapping of DtC as an official list) will likely not happen because many people here hate and look down on critic lists and TSPDT and think that DtC is a better alternative.

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#21

Post by Panunzio » March 4th, 2020, 10:46 am

Was renaming the list to something along the lines of 'Beyond the Canon' suggested before? I thought I remembered some sort of a conversation like that. It would make a lot more sense, especially considering that many of the films on the list are often quite obscure, and not especially 'canonical' in any traditional sense.

Having a list that exists outside of the TSPDT top 2000/21st century 1000 would certainly fit that mould.

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#22

Post by nimimerkillinen » March 4th, 2020, 11:21 am

List Promoter wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 9:44 am
Word fori.

This (the scrapping of DtC as an official list) will likely not happen because many people here hate and look down on critic lists and TSPDT and think that DtC is a better alternative.
i wonder are you someones multi-troll account

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#23

Post by fori » March 4th, 2020, 12:57 pm

When did I earn this persistent reputation as a troll? I can assure you I’m not trolling when I say that doubling the canon should not be an official list.

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#24

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 1:30 pm

fori wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:57 pm
When did I earn this persistent reputation as a troll? I can assure you I’m not trolling when I say that doubling the canon should not be an official list.
Not sure where the reputation comes from, put posts like this one definitely don't help:
viewtopic.php?p=625779#p625779

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#25

Post by mjf314 » March 4th, 2020, 1:45 pm

Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:46 am
Was renaming the list to something along the lines of 'Beyond the Canon' suggested before?
There's already a different list with that name: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/beyo ... n/baalman/

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#26

Post by Onderhond » March 4th, 2020, 1:46 pm

mjf314 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 1:45 pm
Panunzio wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:46 am
Was renaming the list to something along the lines of 'Beyond the Canon' suggested before?
There's already a different list with that name: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/beyo ... n/baalman/
But then the Top 10 includes In The Mood For Love and Mulholland Dr. :D

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#27

Post by nimimerkillinen » March 4th, 2020, 6:20 pm

fori wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:57 pm
When did I earn this persistent reputation as a troll? I can assure you I’m not trolling when I say that doubling the canon should not be an official list.
i meant this "because many people here hate and look down on critic lists and TSPDT and think that DtC is a better alternative."

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#28

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 7:01 pm

nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 6:20 pm
fori wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:57 pm
When did I earn this persistent reputation as a troll? I can assure you I’m not trolling when I say that doubling the canon should not be an official list.
i meant this "because many people here hate and look down on critic lists and TSPDT and think that DtC is a better alternative."
TO BE VERY FAIR: Those words were written by @LIst_Promoter, not by @Fori. I hope we can nip this in the bud.

On the lists: it's been said before - don't like a list? Ignore it. Find a better alternative? Share it.


I've been clear in saying that 1000 title genre lists are overkill (TSZDT & Noir), but do I use every opportunity to say they should be made unofficial? Do I even believe that would be a good thing? No! Do I denigrate the hard work of individuals responsible for those lists? Should I? NO! Both lists have a fan base that really likes them and they should have lists that appeal to their interests.

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#29

Post by nimimerkillinen » March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm

xianjiro wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:01 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 6:20 pm
fori wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 12:57 pm
When did I earn this persistent reputation as a troll? I can assure you I’m not trolling when I say that doubling the canon should not be an official list.
i meant this "because many people here hate and look down on critic lists and TSPDT and think that DtC is a better alternative."
TO BE VERY FAIR: Those words were written by @LIst_Promoter, not by @Fori. I hope we can nip this in the bud.

On the lists: it's been said before - don't like a list? Ignore it. Find a better alternative? Share it.


I've been clear in saying that 1000 title genre lists are overkill (TSZDT & Noir), but do I use every opportunity to say they should be made unofficial? Do I even believe that would be a good thing? No! Do I denigrate the hard work of individuals responsible for those lists? Should I? NO! Both lists have a fan base that really likes them and they should have lists that appeal to their interests.
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo

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#30

Post by rnilsson19 » March 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm

nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo
Strange that fori responded to that when it was clearly meant for List Promoter. Did he unwittingly expose himself as being List Promoter as well by forgetting to switch accounts? lol

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#31

Post by 72aicm » March 4th, 2020, 7:40 pm

rnilsson19 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo
Strange that fori responded to that when it was clearly meant for List Promoter. Did he unwittingly expose himself as being List Promoter as well by forgetting to switch accounts? lol
Busted! Ah, well. It was fun while it lasted. :lol:

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#32

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2020, 7:50 pm

72aicm wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:40 pm
rnilsson19 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo
Strange that fori responded to that when it was clearly meant for List Promoter. Did he unwittingly expose himself as being List Promoter as well by forgetting to switch accounts? lol
Busted! Ah, well. It was fun while it lasted. :lol:
RICH! as in choice, wonderful, oh boy! If that is indeed the case, wonder how the mods will view that?

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#33

Post by fori » March 5th, 2020, 3:34 am

rnilsson19 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo
Strange that fori responded to that when it was clearly meant for List Promoter. Did he unwittingly expose himself as being List Promoter as well by forgetting to switch accounts? lol
viewtopic.php?p=627125#p627125

See if you can work it out for yourself.

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#34

Post by Gordon_Gekko » March 5th, 2020, 7:30 pm

Ain't get the problem. You don't like the list? Ignore it.
There are round about 200 lists so you will find your luck :think:

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#35

Post by mathiasa » March 5th, 2020, 7:43 pm

rnilsson19 wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm
yes, thats why i quoted List_Promoter so meant him because ive never seen that kind of talk here so far

problem with the smaller lists for now for me is that if they can be changed or merged to other lists more easily, so they arent attractive as official lists imo
Strange that fori responded to that when it was clearly meant for List Promoter. Did he unwittingly expose himself as being List Promoter as well by forgetting to switch accounts? lol
It was meant for both. Fori is implicated by the word „someone‘s“. Could still be double accounts. After all, what are the chances that 2 users on this forum are possessed by satan and do his work by denouncing the great dtc list?

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#36

Post by Onderhond » March 5th, 2020, 7:56 pm

Gordon_Gekko wrote:
March 5th, 2020, 7:30 pm
Ain't get the problem. You don't like the list? Ignore it.
There are round about 200 lists so you will find your luck :think:
You'd be surprised!

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#37

Post by xianjiro » March 5th, 2020, 8:27 pm

mathiasa wrote:
March 5th, 2020, 7:43 pm
After all, what are the chances that 2 users on this forum are possessed by satan and do his work by denouncing the great dtc list?
high to insanely high - but also that someone would resort to a sock puppet as well

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#38

Post by mathiasa » March 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm

xianjiro wrote:
March 5th, 2020, 8:27 pm
mathiasa wrote:
March 5th, 2020, 7:43 pm
After all, what are the chances that 2 users on this forum are possessed by satan and do his work by denouncing the great dtc list?
high to insanely high - but also that someone would resort to a sock puppet as well
I see I must have underestimated the forces of evil. Time for me to pray for DTC. I do hope it will get doubled to 2000 one day.

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#39

Post by Pretentious Hipster » March 5th, 2020, 8:48 pm

I wouldn't call fori a troll. He just became a hell of a lot less friendly. I do have a theory based on the psychology of it judging from the previous posts of his, but I won't dwell on it. Just block him.

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#40

Post by xianjiro » March 5th, 2020, 8:55 pm

I've never had an issue with fori, but List Promoter is pretty dogmatic and clearly has an agenda. There are always things we like, dislike, want to see changed, and pray never change on something like iCM, but do we, as individuals, always have to be so self-centered?

BTW, wasn't List Promoter's debut on this forum "Who's more overrated, Fellini or Bergman?"

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