Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 5 released June 2nd)
Polls: 1950s (Results), 1935 (Results), 1966 awards (Jun 9th), 2010s (Jun 30th)
Challenges: TSPDT, 1960s, China/Hong Kong/Taiwan
Film of the Week: Údolí vcel, July nominations (Jun 26th)
World Cup S4: Round 2 schedule, Match 2A: Poland vs Mexico (Jun 4th), Match 2B: Tajikistan vs Italy (Jun 14th)

Directors on few Official Lists

Post Reply
User avatar
brokenface
Donator
Posts: 13443
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Contact:

Directors on few Official Lists

#1

Post by brokenface » November 26th, 2019, 9:18 pm

I made an ICM filmography of François Ozon's features and it struck me how few of his films are on any official lists (2 films out of 19, just 3 list appearances in total). Seems a very low hit rate for a pretty well regarded director with reasonable sized filmography.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fran ... rokenface/

Made me wonder what other directors there are who don't get much list love. Indeed I'm sure there are some with none at all. Any suggestions?

--

Also made me wonder the opposite question: which is the director with most official list films in total and most appearances on official lists. Anyone ever mapped out those stats? (this would be particularly interesting if it was limited to features as I imagine you get skew to hugely prolific shorts makers like Brakhage and Chuck Jones)

User avatar
Teproc
Posts: 593
Joined: Sep 23, 2015
Contact:

#2

Post by Teproc » November 26th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Gonna guess Hitchcock wins for your other question, but as for Ozon it doesn't surprise me. He's not a typical high-brow French director, so he doesn't get embraced by international critics as much: people recognize that he's an important director around, but his films don't get that high critical acclaim. It is somewhat surprising that Frantz is on no official list though.

In a similar vein, Cédric Klapisch is quite a well-known director in France, but has received very little acclaim internationally: only one of his films is an official check.

Jean-Marie Poiré is one of France's most succesful director in terms of commercial success: two of his films are on 1 official list.

Georges Lautner is I guess what you'd call a "cult" director and only has one official film (1 list).

Philippe de Broca is also a very sucessful commercial director who only has two official films (both on one list).

Generally ICM is not great at acknowledging popular cinema outside of the English-speaking world. I imagine one could find examples in basically any non-English speaking country witha solid film industry.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 4004
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#3

Post by Onderhond » November 26th, 2019, 9:49 pm

Teproc wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 9:32 pm
Generally ICM is not great at acknowledging popular cinema outside of the English-speaking world.
Very much agree with this (but would say popular/genre cinema).

But I don't think it's ICM's doing, really just a lack of critics who can speak for this segment of cinema. When you want to be a professional critic, it's a lot easier to stick with international arthouse, unless you can truly corner your own niche.

User avatar
brokenface
Donator
Posts: 13443
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Contact:

#4

Post by brokenface » November 26th, 2019, 9:54 pm

Teproc wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 9:32 pm
Gonna guess Hitchcock wins for your other question, but as for Ozon it doesn't surprise me. He's not a typical high-brow French director, so he doesn't get embraced by international critics as much: people recognize that he's an important director around, but his films don't get that high critical acclaim. It is somewhat surprising that Frantz is on no official list though.

In a similar vein, Cédric Klapisch is quite a well-known director in France, but has received very little acclaim internationally: only one of his films is an official check.
Maybe doesn't get huge critical acclaim but Ozon's films nearly always open at one of the major festivals (Cannes/Berlin/Venice) so I'd put him on a different level to someone like Klapisch in terms of international recognition.

I can see why he slips through the gap as he falls into a sort of middleground between art/commercial/cult and being prolific can also work against you, but it still surprised me how few have popped up anywhere.

blocho
Donator
Posts: 3115
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Contact:

#5

Post by blocho » November 26th, 2019, 10:38 pm

I put together this topic a few years ago about the directors with the most entries on official lists (I imagine there are some small changes in the totals since then): viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2486

I've made no secret of my admiration for John Sayles over the years. Of the 18 features he has directed, only seven are official. I certainly think another six or seven warrant some form of recognition. Unfortunately, it seems he has stopped directing and making his own movies, probably because he can't scare up the money anymore. His last two movies, Amigo and Go For Sisters, were excellent but completely ignored. Instead, he's gone back to what he started his career with, being a writer for hire. He wrote three episodes of the Alienist TV adaptation, for example.

User avatar
brokenface
Donator
Posts: 13443
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Contact:

#6

Post by brokenface » November 26th, 2019, 11:17 pm

blocho wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 10:38 pm
I put together this topic a few years ago about the directors with the most entries on official lists (I imagine there are some small changes in the totals since then): viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2486

I've made no secret of my admiration for John Sayles over the years. Of the 18 features he has directed, only seven are official. I certainly think another six or seven warrant some form of recognition. Unfortunately, it seems he has stopped directing and making his own movies, probably because he can't scare up the money anymore. His last two movies, Amigo and Go For Sisters, were excellent but completely ignored. Instead, he's gone back to what he started his career with, being a writer for hire. He wrote three episodes of the Alienist TV adaptation, for example.
Ah cheers, forgot about that.

Yeah shame Sayles doesn't seem to be doing his own stuff any more, his films were always worth watching, though I too am guilty of ignoring his last couple!

User avatar
Teproc
Posts: 593
Joined: Sep 23, 2015
Contact:

#7

Post by Teproc » November 27th, 2019, 12:05 am

Onderhond wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 9:49 pm
Teproc wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 9:32 pm
Generally ICM is not great at acknowledging popular cinema outside of the English-speaking world.
Very much agree with this (but would say popular/genre cinema).

But I don't think it's ICM's doing, really just a lack of critics who can speak for this segment of cinema. When you want to be a professional critic, it's a lot easier to stick with international arthouse, unless you can truly corner your own niche.
Yes, absolutely, it comes from critics being the primary source for official lists. Though I do think there are lists out there to cover these blind spots... I should try and see if I could find some, but they're almost never going to be these big polls, and I do think that critics polls have a legitimacy that lists by a single person don't.
brokenface wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 9:54 pm
Maybe doesn't get huge critical acclaim but Ozon's films nearly always open at one of the major festivals (Cannes/Berlin/Venice) so I'd put him on a different level to someone like Klapisch in terms of international recognition.

I can see why he slips through the gap as he falls into a sort of middleground between art/commercial/cult and being prolific can also work against you, but it still surprised me how few have popped up anywhere.
Agreed that Ozon has a higher profile than someone like Klapisch, and that you'd expect him to have more official checks. But, well, he does, even if he doesn't have that many.

Post Reply