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500<400 (Nominations Sep 22nd)
Polls: Animation (Results), 2016 awards (Aug 25th), 1987 (Aug 25th), Benelux (Aug 30th), Knockout competition (Round 1)
Challenges: Romance, UK/Ireland, <400 Checks
Film of the Week: Hospital, September nominations (Aug 30th)

Is ICM on its deathbed?

Is ICM a ghost town?

Yes
6
12%
Maybe
16
33%
No
27
55%
 
Total votes: 49

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blueboybob
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Re: Is ICM on its deathbed?

#41

Post by blueboybob » June 27th, 2019, 1:20 pm

The new users seem like bots (not sure why people would) but look at the names

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Tim2460
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#42

Post by Tim2460 » June 27th, 2019, 1:27 pm

xianjiro wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 1:52 am
zuma wrote:
June 26th, 2019, 8:21 pm
I think the ICM search will put me in my deathbed before the site dies.

Between the hundreds of results that have zero relation to what you are looking for and the suggestions list changing a milisecond before you touch one I am starting to think the developer is fucking with us.

I can feel my heart rate rising just writing this post.
yup, drives me nuts as well - doesn't seem to matter what I'm searching for, the result is usually something like The Dark Night (you know, the original starring Setsuko Hara and Toshirô Mifune :P )
It's not a bug .... it's a feature by the Mafia to rise that fuc-*/-g Dark Knight number of views hehe

Must have reach that page at least 10 times since i joined...

Some have the Rick Ashley trool... as we're movie fans ... we have the Dark Knighr Trool ,))
:facepalm:


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flaiky
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#44

Post by flaiky » June 27th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 8:20 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
June 26th, 2019, 5:15 am
I mean, Avengers: Endgame has 4400+ checks. That's a lot for a new movie.
But....

"The Avengers" (2012): 65,579 checks
"The Avengers: Infinity War" (2018): 10,239
"The Avengers: Endgame" (2019): 4,453

That steep dropoff doesn't seem "Oh, it's just because Endgame and Infinity War are much newer" proportional.

Trying another angle.

Most checked 2010 film: Inception...126,276 checks
Most checked 2011 film: Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows...76,520 checks
Most checked 2012 film: The Dark Knight Rises...67,638 checks
Most checked 2013 film: The Wolf of Wall Street (which kinda surprises me)...41,763 checks
Most checked 2014 film: Interstellar...34,930 checks
Most checked 2015 film: Mad Max Fury Road...27,337 checks
Most checked 2016 film: Deadpool...21,287 checks
Most checked 2017 film: Logan...12,682 checks
Most checked 2018 film: Avengers - Infinity War...10,239 checks

So the most checked film of the past five years, Mad Max: Fury Road, is only the 581st most checked film, overall.
The most useful thing, if anyone can be bothered, would be to measure how many checks each of those films had 2 months after release. But yes I expect that there will be a linear drop from about 2013/14 onwards.

---

I disagree that the beta wouldn't make any difference. If it went live, with a concerted effort to advertise ICM on all the most popular film forums (and somehow on Letterboxd, though that would be tough), then I think you'd get a big user uptake. I'm sure that a decent chunk of the film buff community would enjoy the official lists and rankings, but they don't even know it's available and they need to trust that the site is modern and efficient.
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#45

Post by Lammetje » June 27th, 2019, 8:06 pm

zuma wrote:
June 26th, 2019, 8:21 pm
I think the ICM search will put me in my deathbed before the site dies.

Between the hundreds of results that have zero relation to what you are looking for and the suggestions list changing a milisecond before you touch one I am starting to think the developer is fucking with us.

I can feel my heart rate rising just writing this post.
xianjiro wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 1:19 am
So in my mind, the interaction happens on hot titles at the box office that lots of people are going to see right now, not that film at the bottom of 500<400 that has 14 checks and can only be seen if you stand on your head outside a certain theatre in the bowels of a office tower in Equatorial Guinea.
WalterNeff wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 4:07 am
xianjiro wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 3:07 am
WalterNeff wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 2:20 am
For me iCM began its death spiral when Joachim told everyone he had Amor, but refused to share it.
Really?! I would have guessed when pre-code got passed by for official status the first time :P
Nah - I just chalked that up to OCD and anal-retentiveness.
Great stuff, guys. (l)
flaiky wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 1:21 am
I don't think it's on its deathbed but I certainly get the impression that user activity, and especially user growth, is on the decline and has been for a couple of years. Obviously I have no proof of that but I'm fairly sure that new releases used to gain checks more rapidly, and the current number of 218,352 users doesn't feel significantly higher than when I last looked ages ago (maybe 2 years ago).

I really think the site needs to modernise. The current design, which is probably about a decade old (?), just doesn't cut it anymore - especially for attracting new users. The beta looks fantastic and could really draw people in, but it just needs to go live! It really doesn't matter if it's perfect, just continue developing it. There also needs to be a stronger emphasis on the competitive edge and official lists, which are the only elements setting ICM apart from Letterboxd, IMDB, etc. Right now, the homepage greets new visitors by saying:
With iCheckMovies you can…

…keep track of all the movies and TV series you have seen.
…get personal movie recommendations.

…create your own movie lists.
…create and join groups for movie lovers. Make new friends!
…and much more!
This gives pretty much zero incentive to people who already use the big film sites. I've never studied marketing but surely the #1 rule is identifying what sets you apart from your competitors and selling that quality to death. ICM has something unique to offer, so damn well sell it. The beta also seems to be taking the wrong approach, as the lists are less prominent and the comments take centre stage. Comments are important for creating a sense of engagement but they are not the reason for joining ICM (especially while there's no reply/notification function).

(Before anyone says it: I know not everyone cares about lists or rankings, but those people won't be sold on the site anyway. Just target and embrace the people who do find this concept appealing, I say.)
This is a good post, but I personally would prefer keeping the current old-fashioned and minimalistic design for another ten years. I just love it!
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xianjiro
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#46

Post by xianjiro » June 27th, 2019, 11:09 pm

Yes, it would be absolutely interesting to know how new users are finding the site these days. While I was looking at the info that Nathan posted (from Alexa, I think), I saw there was another site that might be offering something similar, but was clearly skewed to box office modernity. And of course you can't even investigate the site without setting up an account, so I won't bother.

I too am happy with v2, Beta's okay, but ... and I think the main thing holding release back is that large chunks of page code is yet to written. I haven't been following the official blog, but what I remember is that current features were being added to the beta at a fairly slow pace. I'm not going to second guess Marijn there - it's just not fair to him and I do believe he works very hard for us.

So another stat I thought about since my earlier post is: how many members are paying (both new and returning subscribers)? Of course it has to be enough to cover the costs of hardware and I'd hope at least buy Marijn some coffee and beer, but honestly, if the site was a takeover target, it would have been sold long before now.

Last, were the results of the user survey (taken a few months before two of the three guys left) published anywhere?

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albajos
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#47

Post by albajos » June 28th, 2019, 5:35 am

The site is no takeover subject simply because of legality. Several of the lists on the site could easily get acease and desist. The only safe ones are awards as that is public information (even though the use of their logos are a no no), but all books basically can't be used without consent.

So will the site survive? Not with today's content.

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#48

Post by joachimt » June 28th, 2019, 6:56 am

I would love to clean up the site from unused accounts and redundant lists. Just now I randomly ran into a list again called "Movies I Watched" which has 1 title on it, made by a user with 5 checks, who joined almost 4 years ago and never has been seen again after the day he joined.

My suggestions would be:
1. If a user has been active for less than a week (or maybe a month) and hasn't been back in a year, the account should be removed. Nobody in that situation would be angry if he comes back 3 years later to see his account gone. My response would simply be "yeah, that makes sense, I didn't use it anyway, I'll start a new account now that I'm interested".
2. Pointless lists by inactive users should be removed. Pointless lists by active users could be flagged, so users get a chance to change or explain or whatever.
3. I might even go so far of removing inactive users from the rankings, let's say after one year of inactivity. Maybe that way the rankings would feel more alive.
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#49

Post by Onderhond » June 28th, 2019, 7:11 am

joachimt wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:56 am
Nobody in that situation would be ... My response would simply be
I've seen this discussion countless times before on other boards, I think you're making a pretty big leap there by assuming your feelings are representative for everybody's.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on a personal level, but I do think these would be very difficult rules to enforce without coming off as a bunch of elitist dictators.

Account removal because of inactivity is rarely met with overall agreement :)

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#50

Post by Ebbywebby » June 28th, 2019, 8:18 am

Users in the top 500 who haven't checked a movie in two months or more. This list turned out to be far longer than I anticipated. Imagine the dormancy in the lower rankings!

Surprisingly, I have a lot of "Neighbor" compatibility with some of them (Julliette, Kingwolf34, Kasparius, coroner, Andalusian_Dog and especially eight-years-dead mysh), despite their inactivity.

11. jerry warton 1 year 10 months
16. winds 2 years 6 months
25. Juliette 1 year 4 months
33. Lyu 1 year
35. johnlocke 1 year 5 months
38. Kingwolf34 11 months 4 weeks
43. Kasparius 1 year 1 month
59. 1Cloche 4 months 3 weeks
61. SONIC 10 months 3 weeks
76. Sandor Krasna 1 year 5 months
100. coroner 4 months 1 week
118. Oaktown 3 months
138. Public Enemy 4 months 4 weeks
149. beeswax 2 years 8 months
152. glen_esq 2 years 2 months
155. Pinheiro 1 year 9 months
156. Nicelad2001 2 years 8 months
172. Don Ferry 3 years 2 months
172. Piblescu 3 months 1 week
184. God Father 1 year 4 months
187. carnivalyouth 1 year 7 months
189. Reginald 6 years 8 months
195. tighy07 1 year 11 months
199. -1flb2- 9 months 2 weeks
207. MCL 1 year
209. SaintOfKillers 9 months 4 weeks
216. MartinTeller 2 months 2 weeks
218. Spetie 1 year 9 months
220. humbug 3 months
224. jeremyheilman 2 years 9 months
225. AssonFire 5 months 3 weeks
233. Ergun 5 months 2 weeks
236. carvalho 2 months
245. Quirky- 4 months 3 weeks
254. MadLove 6 years 1 month
256. jaysams26 3 months 3 weeks
258. panthonyjohnson 6 years 10 months
264. cevalim 3 months
277. Deckard1978 3 years 10 months
284. serriform 1 year 1 month
293. RioHarmonica 3 years 10 months
295. NiceLad78 3 years 7 months
297. Kraclert 2 years 2 months
299. Joculator 2 months 2 weeks
300. listas 4 years 1 month
304. lordcookie 7 years 4 months
309. Eve-Lang-El-Coup 2 months
310. Pamplinas 3 years 8 months
311. dandylion 9 months 2 weeks
312. AmyApple 7 months 3 weeks (she only joined because I goaded her)
323. quitegonegenie 3 months 1 week
325. Andalusian_Dog 5 years 6 months
326. acoltismypassport 2 months 4 weeks
331. muggins87 3 years 3 months
333. ntrpl 1 year 7 months
336. tom777 1 year 11 months
341. freyjasfinaltear 3 months
352. Morto 2 months
354. nicolekidman 1 year 4 months
360. hankquinlan NINE YEARS ONE MONTH
371. Book of Sand 2 months 4 weeks
372. soitgoes 6 years 7 months
374. knuterik 11 months
380. Filmfinder 6 years 3 months
387. johntrent1994 2 years 4 months
395. karjeem 8 months 1 week
396. cameron713 2 months
396. tolpol 1 year 8 months
404. dreiser 5 years 4 months
409. vdbf 9 years 2 months
411. dwhan 4 years 6 months
418. neocowboy 5 months 1 week
421. ibdi 1 year 4 months
421. tinashackleford 5 years
433. jasoninatree 1 year 3 months
437. mogliss 2 years 5 months
440. timmy_501 2 months
442. wendyvortex 6 months
443. Omnibozo 4 years 4 months
445. mysh 8 years
448. Revex 3 months 1 week
449. bubrouha 3 months 2 weeks
453. vladdy 3 years 4 months
463. awsaa 6 months 2 weeks
464. AlbertVogler 5 months 1 week
465. cayado-coro 1 year 2 months
469. Brueghel 7 years 11 months
471. marden 7 years 5 months
484. monkfish 2 years 11 months
486. Jahnke 5 months
493. TGTE 3 years 12 months (which is a lot like four years, I understand)
495. Zann 3 months 3 weeks
497. dwd 5 years 3 months
498. ARileyL 3 years 4 months

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PeacefulAnarchy
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#51

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 28th, 2019, 8:39 am

^^^^
That's about 19-20% inactivity, not great but not that bad overall.
Onderhond wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 7:11 am
joachimt wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:56 am
Nobody in that situation would be ... My response would simply be
I've seen this discussion countless times before on other boards, I think you're making a pretty big leap there by assuming your feelings are representative for everybody's.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on a personal level, but I do think these would be very difficult rules to enforce without coming off as a bunch of elitist dictators.

Account removal because of inactivity is rarely met with overall agreement :)
Yeah, the only accounts I'd delete are straight up empty accounts. I've had accounts deleted from places after long inactivity and when I found that I've never made a new account, just said forget it and moved on. I'm still pissed ebay deleted my account for inactivity a few years ago. Fuck them.

Hiding them makes sense, stop updating them if it saves resources, but don't delete them.

Otherwise, yeah ICM needs a stronger identity and focus on its core features. Everything necessary is there, so not a big overhaul, but it needs to be easier to use for the medium user, the ones who want to do more than check films and look at progress on official lists, but who don't have the intimate knowledge of it's quirks and add-ons for beneficial functionality that we do.

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#52

Post by xianjiro » June 28th, 2019, 9:15 am

Yeah, it's not safe to assume everyone will view a deleted account this or that way just as not everyone respects the golden rule of only checking what one has actually seen. I'm certain users here would be more than happy to contribute to an empty accounts to be deleted thread and why not empty lists while we're at it? Only requirement is it lay dormant for a given period and someone attempts contact with the user prior to deletion.

Thinking of ways to get the user base more involved in the day-to-day would be useful and help build community, but I'm not sure we're there unless one of the mods takes on the task of volunteer coordinator. I offered to help in any way needed where I had skills once upon a time and the offer wasn't even acknowledged. After a bit and annoying interchange with a user here and I said fuck it, retracted the offer, and never looked back. I think one of the reasons for the forum's success is that people find a way to plug in and even though the user base is small, there are usually a few people who appreciate the work our volunteers do. We really should thank them more ...

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#53

Post by Wonderful Rainbow » June 28th, 2019, 9:26 am

And don't forget how deleting inactive accounts could influence lists like the 500<400.

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#54

Post by xianjiro » June 28th, 2019, 9:52 am

Wonderful Rainbow wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:26 am
And don't forget how deleting inactive accounts could influence lists like the 500<400.
good point, but that's an easy solve - only delete accounts that haven't been active in the last year. It's not like old votes would affect the ballot, though it might maintain a movie's eligibility for another ballot or two

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#55

Post by albajos » June 28th, 2019, 10:06 am

Well, if you delete me after I die, my ghost will haunt you all.

(my checks is accurate reflection of what I have seen, and will be so when I die. Deleting an account that like removes a 100% legitimate account, and really skews with the stats. If theat is the plans you might as well close down the site today.)

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#56

Post by joachimt » June 28th, 2019, 10:25 am

albajos wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 10:06 am
Well, if you delete me after I die, my ghost will haunt you all.
I was never talking about deleting account of people who have been active. I was only talking about account that have been created and then abandoned after only a few days. If a user has been active, I wouldn't remove the account.
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#57

Post by AdamH » June 28th, 2019, 10:26 am

I don't see any point in deleting inactive accounts. Some that you delete might come back one day and be annoyed that their account has been deleted and decide to never use the site again.

What is the point in deleting them?

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#58

Post by joachimt » June 28th, 2019, 11:59 am

AdamH wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 10:26 am
What is the point in deleting them?
Tons of inactive accounts make it look like the site is useless. There are currently 218561 accounts. Almost 40,000 of those have no checks at all.
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#59

Post by sol » June 28th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Maybe not deleting inactive accounts, but maybe making them 'dormant' (sorry, I can't think of a better word) would be an option. Perhaps they could have an 'inactive' user status with the accounts hidden in the rankings until they become active again?
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#60

Post by sol » June 28th, 2019, 12:03 pm

joachimt wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:56 am
I would love to clean up the site from unused accounts and redundant lists. Just now I randomly ran into a list again called "Movies I Watched" which has 1 title on it, made by a user with 5 checks, who joined almost 4 years ago and never has been seen again after the day he joined.

My suggestions would be:
2. Pointless lists by inactive users should be removed. Pointless lists by active users could be flagged, so users get a chance to change or explain or whatever.
I like this idea. Or maybe make the lists 'dormant' if that's possible.
Former IMDb message boards user /// iCM | IMDb | My Top 500+ Favourite Films /// Long live the new flesh!
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#61

Post by AdamH » June 28th, 2019, 2:31 pm

sol wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 12:00 pm
Maybe not deleting inactive accounts, but maybe making them 'dormant' (sorry, I can't think of a better word) would be an option. Perhaps they could have an 'inactive' user status with the accounts hidden in the rankings until they become active again?
Yeah I like this. Maybe hide all inactive ones from the view of other users and as soon as they log in again they go back to being a normal user.

I think deleting them straight out risks annoying users who might return to the site without any big benefit for the site.

If I took a long break from the site and came back find my account deleted I wouldn't use the site again. If my account was simply changed to inactive and I logged back in and it was back to normal it wouldn't affect me at all.

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#62

Post by Ebbywebby » June 28th, 2019, 7:19 pm

I think deleting (or even "hiding") inactive users goes too far, but I'd be all for deleting the users with zero checks. Or at least, all users with zero checks who haven't joined within the preceding week.

And how about deleting every list with just one item? I'm tempted to say delete every list with FIVE or less items (there are about 800), but maybe there's somehow some five-film list that has value.

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#63

Post by xianjiro » June 28th, 2019, 7:47 pm

joachimt wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 10:25 am
albajos wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 10:06 am
Well, if you delete me after I die, my ghost will haunt you all.
I was never talking about deleting account of people who have been active. I was only talking about account that have been created and then abandoned after only a few days. If a user has been active, I wouldn't remove the account.
:thumbsup: :poshclap:

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#64

Post by xianjiro » June 28th, 2019, 7:49 pm

joachimt wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 11:59 am
AdamH wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 10:26 am
What is the point in deleting them?
Tons of inactive accounts make it look like the site is useless. There are currently 218561 accounts. Almost 40,000 of those have no checks at all.
Does anyone have a better idea why bots set up accounts on iCM other than "because they can"? I"m guessing they are trying to see if they can get access to emails or something. Why wouldn't you delete such accounts Adam?

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#65

Post by albajos » June 28th, 2019, 7:57 pm

bots create accounts, because they post forum post automatically.

But without a forum to post in they just hang around. Maybe we need a better Captcha.

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#66

Post by Lammetje » June 28th, 2019, 8:34 pm

Just delete all accounts that have favorited The External World. :whistling:
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flaiky wrote::o :satstunned: :guns: :down: :facepalm: :yucky: :mw_confused: :pinch: :ph43r: :ermm: :sweat: :folded: tehe :cowbow: :think: :finger: :rip:
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PeacefulAnarchy wrote:Active topics is the devil. Please use the forums and subforums as intended and peruse all the topics nicely sorted by topic, not just the currently popular ones displayed in a jumbled mess.
maxwelldeux wrote:If you asked me to kill my wife and pets OR watch Minions, I'd check the runtime and inquire about sobriety requirements before providing an answer.
monty wrote:If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. iCM ain't for sissies.
OldAle1 wrote:stupid double post bullshit crap shit fuck
mightysparks wrote:ARGH. RARGH. RARGH. DIE.
Kowry wrote:Thanks, Art Garfunky.
Rich wrote:*runs*

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#67

Post by OldAle1 » June 28th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Lammetje wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Just delete all accounts that have favorited The External World. :whistling:
+1

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#68

Post by Ebbywebby » June 28th, 2019, 8:55 pm

Lammetje wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Just delete all accounts that have favorited The External World. :whistling:
Only four checks in the past nine months. Turning unofficial seems to have saved the ICM population from enduring it further.

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#69

Post by WalterNeff » June 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:55 pm
Lammetje wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Just delete all accounts that have favorited The External World. :whistling:
Only four checks in the past nine months. Turning unofficial seems to have saved the ICM population from enduring it further.
I think I'm going to favorite it now

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#70

Post by Ebbywebby » June 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:55 pm
Lammetje wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Just delete all accounts that have favorited The External World. :whistling:
Only four checks in the past nine months. Turning unofficial seems to have saved the ICM population from enduring it further.
I think I'm going to favorite it now
Even the lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better.

Still feels like anyone who raves about this film is simply trolling.

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WalterNeff
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#71

Post by WalterNeff » June 29th, 2019, 12:34 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm
WalterNeff wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:55 pm


Only four checks in the past nine months. Turning unofficial seems to have saved the ICM population from enduring it further.
I think I'm going to favorite it now
Even the lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better.

Still feels like anyone who raves about this film is simply trolling.
The lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better than a lot of things.

As I always say, the worst Noir is better than the best Godard. (Too bad Kas isn't still around to get all apoplectic :lol: )

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Ebbywebby
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#72

Post by Ebbywebby » June 29th, 2019, 1:12 am

WalterNeff wrote:
June 29th, 2019, 12:34 am

As I always say, the worst Noir is better than the best Godard.
More trolling.

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1SO
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#73

Post by 1SO » June 29th, 2019, 1:26 am

It's not trolling if it's true.

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xianjiro
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#74

Post by xianjiro » June 29th, 2019, 1:26 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 29th, 2019, 1:12 am
WalterNeff wrote:
June 29th, 2019, 12:34 am

As I always say, the worst Noir is better than the best Godard.
More trolling.
nah. Walter's a mod. Mods can't troll. Therefore, Walter isn't a troll.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

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Ebbywebby
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#75

Post by Ebbywebby » June 29th, 2019, 1:34 am

Hogwash.

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flavo5000
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#76

Post by flavo5000 » June 29th, 2019, 1:27 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
June 29th, 2019, 12:34 am
Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm
WalterNeff wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm


I think I'm going to favorite it now
Even the lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better.

Still feels like anyone who raves about this film is simply trolling.
The lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better than a lot of things.

As I always say, the worst Noir is better than the best Godard. (Too bad Kas isn't still around to get all apoplectic :lol: )
My man! :cheers:

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nimimerkillinen
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#77

Post by nimimerkillinen » June 29th, 2019, 4:14 pm

more like early retirement but still pretty good, there would be so many things to make it better and fresh but we'll see

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#78

Post by nimimerkillinen » June 29th, 2019, 4:18 pm

Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm
WalterNeff wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm
Ebbywebby wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 8:55 pm


Only four checks in the past nine months. Turning unofficial seems to have saved the ICM population from enduring it further.
I think I'm going to favorite it now
Even the lower ranks of the 1000 Noirs list are better.

Still feels like anyone who raves about this film is simply trolling.
whats wrong with it? pretty good, unique absurd black humor semi well-made at times
better than few top-100 on 1000 noirs list ive seen like maltese falcon, white heat, the hitch-hiker, asphalt jungle :cowbow: :ph43r: :guns:

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