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Opinions on sources for official lists (website tab)

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AdamH
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Opinions on sources for official lists (website tab)

#1

Post by AdamH »

Not sure how much people care about this (although we are great at endlessly discussing this type of thing so I thought I'd start a thread). Any opinions on which lists you'd keep/remove if you had the choice.

Will have to look into them more but I've always wanted rid of Reddit, FOK, MovieSense and FilmTotaal for a start.

iCM.com (Most checked & Most favourited)
iCM Forum (Doubling the Canon & 500<400)
TSPDT (Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own, Brief Encounters, 21st Century, TSPDT, 100 & 1000 Noirs)
Boxofficemojo (All-time Box Office & Worldwide Box Office)
Sohu.com (Martial arts)
366weirdmovies.com (Weird movies)
AV Club (Best films of the '00s & New Cult Canon)
Badmovies.org (B-Movies)
Rotten Tomatoes
Spaghetti-western.net
Total Sci-fi Online (100 Greatest Sci-Fi) (Can't get on the website...not sure if it's temporarily down or permanently gone)
Grindhouse Database (Deuce Top 20)
SilentEra.com (Top 300 Silent Era Films)
Lauren's site (They Shoot Zombie's, Don't They?)
Filmsite.org (Controversial films)
Artsandfaith.com (Spiritual)
FilmTotaal (Top 100)
FOK (Top 250)
MovieSense (Top 101)
Reddit (Top 250)

Magazines/websites:
Empire (50 Greatest sequels, Empire 500 & 100 Best Films of World Cinema)
Gamesradar.com (Total Film's 50 Amazing Films)
Paste (Anime)
Last edited by AdamH on January 15th, 2018, 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PeacefulAnarchy
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#2

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Arts and Faith isn't a forum list: https://artsandfaith.com/t100/ just clarifying since the way you have it listed might lead people to think that.
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#3

Post by AdamH »

PeacefulAnarchy on Jan 14 2018, 05:45:38 PM wrote:Arts and Faith isn't a forum list: https://artsandfaith.com/t100/ just clarifying since the way you have it listed might lead people to think that.
Ah, sorry. Edited it. It appears that artsandfaith.com is a forum but seems like the list actually comes from Image Journal?

Read some more about it:
This list is the culmination of years of discussion and debate within the Arts & Faith online community..

The Arts & Faith Top 100 Films is sponsored by Image, a literary and arts quarterly founded in 1989 to demonstrate the vitality and diversity of well-made art and writing that engage seriously with the historic faiths of the West in our time.
Last edited by AdamH on January 15th, 2018, 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#4

Post by dirty_score »

AdamH on Jan 14 2018, 05:40:12 PM wrote:iCM.com (Most checked & Most favourited)
iCM Forum (Doubling the Canon & 500<400)
TSPDT (Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own, Brief Encounters, 21st Century, TSPDT, 100 & 1000 Noirs)
Boxofficemojo (All-time Box Office & Worldwide Box Office)
Sohu.com (Martial arts)
366weirdmovies.com (Weird movies)
AV Club (Best films of the '00s & New Cult Canon)
Badmovies.org (B-Movies)
Rotten Tomatoes
Spaghetti-western.net
Total Sci-fi Online (100 Greatest Sci-Fi) (Can't get on the website...not sure if it's temporarily down or permanently gone)
Grindhouse Database (Deuce Top 20)
SilentEra.com (Top 300 Silent Era Films)
Lauren's site (They Shoot Zombie's, Don't They?)
Filmsite.org (Controversial films)
Artsandfaith.com (Spiritual)
FilmTotaal (Top 100)
FOK (Top 250)
MovieSense (Top 101)
Reddit (Top 250)

Magazines/websites:
Empire (50 Greatest sequels, Empire 500 & 100 Best Films of World Cinema)
Gamesradar.com (Total Film's 50 Amazing Films)
Paste (Anime)
From that list I would remove/replace:

iCM Forum (Doubling the Canon & 500<400)
TSPDT (Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own, 100)
AV Club (Best films of the '00s)
Badmovies.org (B-Movies)
Spaghetti-western.net
Grindhouse Database (Deuce Top 20)
SilentEra.com (Top 300 Silent Era Films)
Lauren's site (They Shoot Zombie's, Don't They?)
Empire (50 Greatest sequels & 100 Best Films of World Cinema)
Gamesradar.com (Total Film's 50 Amazing Films)
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#5

Post by nimimerkillinen »

i dont want anything to be removed :(
there's room for hundreds of more official lists imo
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#6

Post by cinephage »

nimimerkillinen on Jan 15 2018, 09:34:21 AM wrote:i dont want anything to be removed :(
there's room for hundreds of more official lists imo
Agreed. This sites is more in need of stability than autoritative sources... Give official status to all the lists you want, but you should stop replacing or supressing lists.

I can't believe They died with their boots on lost its official status to such cinematographic footnotes as Oh, Susanna! or Warhol's western... It certainly can not reflect well on the seriousness of the site.
Will Warhol really remain in history as the director of one of the best westerns ever, the kind you HAVE to watch if you want to know chat westerns are about ? Who can believe that ?

All lists, no matter the source, are arbitrary and should be considered as such. We all know prize winners are not necessarily the best films of their cinematographic year. The main concern should be to cover a wide range of high quality movies, or films of importance in their specific genre or national cinematography, the source should be secondary. Constantly adding/removing official status to lists really feels wrong to me.
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#7

Post by sol »

cinephage on Jan 15 2018, 10:04:38 AM wrote:
nimimerkillinen on Jan 15 2018, 09:34:21 AM wrote:i dont want anything to be removed :(
there's room for hundreds of more official lists imo
Agreed. This sites is more in need of stability than autoritative sources... Give official status to all the lists you want, but you should stop replacing or supressing lists.
Agreed to some extent too.

I don't support removing any lists, unless:

a) Something better and more comprehensive comes along to replace it (e.g. Zombie Canon replacing Horror 500)

b) It is one of those generic all-time lists. There are tons, and tons, and tons of "all-time lists", most of which have significant overlap.

I mean, I could be talked into letting FOK, FilmTotaal, Reddit, etc. go, but not any of the specialty lists. Not Empire Sequels (unless we find something better to replace it), not Badmovies.org, not 50 Amazing Films and certainly not They Shoot Zombies Don't They.

The only specialty lists that I might be on board to let go of would be the Box Office ones, but even those have some validity. The Worldwide one is a worthwhile list in my opinion, but simply way too long.
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#8

Post by Gorro »

I find Anthology Film Archives' Essential Cinema the absolute worst official list on the site. It even says it is an unfinished project in the description. The impression that list gives me is that they didn't get further than which directors and types of cinema do we want represented? Let's compile a list with anything we can think of which fit these criteria. And then get more selective afterwards. However, that final step was never done, so we end up with a list which includes almost everything regardless of quality from some directors, sprinkled with some other films they happened to think of during the process.

Also, the 500<400 list has no right of being one of the longer lists on the site if we are honest to ourselves.
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#9

Post by sol »

Gorro on Jan 15 2018, 10:19:09 AM wrote:Also, the 500<400 list has no right of being one of the longer lists on the site if we are honest to ourselves.
And there I was thinking that expanding the Official List to cover 1000<400 would be a good idea. :unsure:
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#10

Post by Gorro »

sol on Jan 15 2018, 10:15:57 AM wrote:The Worldwide one is a worthwhile list in my opinion, but simply way too long.
I also agree that the cutoff point from that list needs to change. Every reasonably successful movie breaks the $200M barrier nowadays.
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#11

Post by Gorro »

sol on Jan 15 2018, 10:21:09 AM wrote:
Gorro on Jan 15 2018, 10:19:09 AM wrote:Also, the 500<400 list has no right of being one of the longer lists on the site if we are honest to ourselves.
And there I was thinking that expanding the Official List to cover 1000<400 would be a good idea. :unsure:
Why? The purpose of that list is to promote unseen films. Currently there are only 40 people who have seen over half of the list. So, almost everybody still has several hundred movies to explore on that list already. Adding another few hundred, makes every movie drown even more in the numbers and makes placement on that list less noteworthy. It is also a very volatile list with around a quarter of the movies on the list changing every year, so it already promotes more movies than anyone can keep up with.
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#12

Post by sol »

Gorro on Jan 15 2018, 10:31:07 AM wrote:
sol on Jan 15 2018, 10:21:09 AM wrote:
Gorro on Jan 15 2018, 10:19:09 AM wrote:Also, the 500<400 list has no right of being one of the longer lists on the site if we are honest to ourselves.
And there I was thinking that expanding the Official List to cover 1000<400 would be a good idea. :unsure:
Why? The purpose of that list is to promote unseen films. Currently there are only 40 people who have seen over half of the list. So, almost everybody still has several hundred movies to explore on that list already. Adding another few hundred, makes every movie drown even more in the numbers and makes placement on that list less noteworthy. It is also a very volatile list with around a quarter of the movies on the list changing every year, so it already promotes more movies than anyone can keep up with.
Well, I have never been much of a completist (I have no Platinum awards to date) and I personally love the idea of a list full of so many unseen films that it becomes a neverending source of recommendations. The volatile nature just adds to the fun for me. There'll always be something cool to check out based on that list. Or maybe I'm just weird by preferring lists that are hard to complete and which have tons of options of films to watch in order to maintain a Bronze or Silver on. I'm actually sadden by the fact that 366 Weird Movies, by comparison, will soon become a stable list that can easily be completed. The very open nature of the project has been tons of fun for me.
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#13

Post by cinephage »

One of the advantages of it being so large, is that is leaves room for a very wide variety of films. Short films, comedies, mini-series, documentaries, science-fiction, horror, art films, experimental cinema...
Anyone who wants to watch films from that list will find stuff that will appeal to them, no matter what their taste is. Narrowing the list would probably lose some of this diversity.
On the other hand, expanding it to 1 000 seems too wide to me. It would only make sense if it were to remain still for longer than 12 months, as it is obvious only few people would ever really progress on such a large list.
The 500 movies version is interesting, as we observe that almost 20 % of the movies in it get their 400 checks, which means the films got some of the exposure we wanted them to receive.
Last edited by cinephage on January 15th, 2018, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#14

Post by AdamH »

500<400 is a great list and ties in perfectly to iCM.com. Other than disliking the forum, I can't see any reason for people to want it gone.

I'm not desperate for any lists to be removed but if iCM started right now then some of them obviously wouldn't be made official now (Reddit etc.) I don't mind the likes of the Reddit list remaining official as those sites apparently helped out when iCM.com was being created but the lists are fairly worthless.
Last edited by AdamH on January 15th, 2018, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#15

Post by maxwelldeux »

I mean, I realize I'm backwards from most everyone else, but I got into film because of ICM and this forum. Each of the lists serves a purpose, and not every list might be for everyone. I'm pretty against removing lists, as some people out there might want to see it, complete it, etc.

Like the FilmTotaal list - maybe not a great list in terms of quality. But without really trying, I somehow ended up being just a handful of films away from a platinum. So I completed the list. Not a big accomplishment in the grand scheme of things, but it gave me a sense of pride in finishing it, and it got me out of my comfort zone to explore films I normally wouldn't watch.

Or the long box office list - I think it's just about as interesting to see what I haven't checked as it is to see what I have checked.

If I ran the world, I'd like to see more special purpose lists, covering specialty topics (e.g., Christmas movies, stand-up comedy specials) or sub-genres (e.g., zombie movies, time travel movies).
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#16

Post by Lilarcor »

I'm OK with the Reddit list if they decide to change the format of voting - it's just so wrong. I don't like the list at all, but it serves a purpose, I guess, as a popularity thing (for white american/european males). r/movies is huge on the internet.

FOK and Filmtotaal do not make sense to me apart from that they did something a decade ago for ICM. The lists aren't interesting because it's the same demography as Reddit voting. Surely there a big film communities out there in the world more worthy of inclusion. I'd be super interested in seeing "popularity" lists from huge film communities in non-western countries such as China (not box office).

I think Anthology list should stay until we find a better avant-garde list. (Michael Sicinski et al, please create something)
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#17

Post by brokenface »

Gamesradar.com (Total Film's 50 Amazing Films)
original source for this is Total Film magazine, a UK magazine similar to Empire. Their website was merged with gamesradar but the magazine is the source of the list
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#18

Post by AdamH »

brokenface on Jan 15 2018, 03:08:44 PM wrote:
Gamesradar.com (Total Film's 50 Amazing Films)
original source for this is Total Film magazine, a UK magazine similar to Empire. Their website was merged with gamesradar but the magazine is the source of the list
Yeah, that's why I made the magazines section but it's not very clear from the OP I know.
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#19

Post by Torgo »

maxwelldeux wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:13 pm Like the FilmTotaal list - maybe not a great list in terms of quality. But without really trying, I somehow ended up being just a handful of films away from a platinum. So I completed the list. Not a big accomplishment in the grand scheme of things, but it gave me a sense of pride in finishing it, and it got me out of my comfort zone to explore films I normally wouldn't watch.
The fact I'm each one movie away from Platinum on the Top 250s of FOK & Reddit are pretty much my only reasons not to argue for their removal. :lol:
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