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How to deal with All-Time Worldwide Box office

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Darth Nevets
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How to deal with All-Time Worldwide Box office

#201

Post by Darth Nevets » July 5th, 2018, 10:12 pm

Gershwin on Jul 5 2018, 03:27:09 PM wrote:Those are all very interesting notions, I have to admit, but not ones you get from looking at the Box Office list as such, or even the general numbers behind it. You'll have to delve into the details, and they are not readily available (whereas most book or critics based lists do have an immediately accessible source that tells us why those specific films are on a list).

So putting those films in this already quite huge list isn't a very valuable contribution to make us understand the trends and dynamics of box office cinema a bit better. And even if they did: trends are very interesting, but do you need a few dozen examples of a trend from every year? Or do we get more insight from, let's say, a critic's book that discusses about 50 of the most relevant superhero movies from the last decade? I don't think such a book exists yet, but you'll get what I mean.

I would really prefer a yearly popularity poll from a lowbrow movie magazine, for instance. I bet there are some movie magazines out there that are aimed more at the consumer-friendly end of Hollywood's output, and I bet they have end-of-year-lists as well. Wouldn't such a list be more satisfying for everybody, both arthouse snobs and superhero movie lovers?

Edit: apart from that, how do you value the notion of inflation? I find that a very valuable argument, actually, and I'd prefer to have a nice way to correct the list for inflation (though I know no such method has popped up yet).
Several great arguments here, many are simply issues that have no immediate solution. Inflation though is an interesting idea but it creates a completely US centric list. Imagine trying to compute Italian Lira (about 1900 to a Euro at the turn in date) to modern dollars based on Star Wars' gross. Try and fathom how developing nations' old grosses might inflate (especially with the third world becoming huge players). Its fun to talk about inflation because the Pound and Dollar are solid in the modern context, but imagine a horrifying financial crisis in which they plummeted or rose suddenly.

Can't fight the first paragraph, those are big problems with the list. The only thing I'll say is that they, unlike a published book, always update and therefore give new grounds for analysis which is yes, hard to gauge in terms of meaning. On populist polls its really hard to do so, many people first get exposed to movies long after they come out. Engaging lots of people who have seen many movies will draw in certain types of people, and not only that mostly people of one nation.

Relevant and popular are hard to gauge as well. A book of 50 superhero movies almost certainly couldn't ignore the psychotically disastrous Fant4stic, which I actually have in My World of Flops the first list I ever made here, but would cut a dozen MCU movies.

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#202

Post by jvv » July 5th, 2018, 10:31 pm

Ideally the Box Office list would be based on number of tickets sold, but I don't think that information is available, unfortunately.

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#203

Post by WalterNeff » July 5th, 2018, 11:20 pm

These cats want to know if this is the box office whereof you speak.
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#204

Post by mathiasa » July 6th, 2018, 11:58 am

Darth Nevets on Jul 5 2018, 11:31:42 AM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Jul 5 2018, 10:59:56 AM wrote:
mathiasa on Jul 5 2018, 01:55:44 AM wrote:I‘m a bit disappointed by some of those who think this is not (yet) a problem because they never at least try go explain what their pain barrier is. I think it be helpful if people (esp. moderaters in charge of adoption) indicated at what yearly rate they feel we would have a problem.
We already feel it's a problem. But apparently the userbase (or a vocal part of it) doesn't. Every argument that it's not a problem is essentially "more blockbusters=better" and "why do you hate people working on the list and want to take away their checks?" No one actually engages with responses to that, though. I'm assuming the answer is "when box office mojo decides 200M isn't special and either ups the cutoff or removes it completely."
The problem is that the forum has inward bias, and really hates films that are popular. It's a problem in film criticism in general, often a film is held in higher regard for losing money (therefore not "giving in" to the marketplace). Case in point this thread, basically the only place where posters rail against the inclusion of films because they are films they find inherently worthless because the masses see them.

In virtually every negative reference in modern criticism to movie taste most critics will cite the Marvel movies in a negative context. Now the reality is that critics have liked most of the movies, virtually all release to critical acclaim far above most blockbusters. Yet the negativity persists, solely due to success, in a world with dozens of releases nowhere near the quality.

So myopic is the viewpoint around here that the worse the solution, the more approval it garners. The top 5 list from 75 on is totally worthless for instance, excluding dozens of major releases. The top 53 films are already on 11 lists and only three films would become official (soon to be four when Karate Kid 2 drops from All Time Box Office).

There isn't, however, a backlash against Stan Brakhage (just to drop a name). He has 123 official films by my count, with over 100 films on only a single list. In base arithmetic Brakhage would be more important than major releases by a factor of 25 in this case.
The nature of the problem has been made clear time and time again - many users have explained what it is - so it‘s very annoying to bring up Brakhage once again, for the same pointless argument. He has nothing to with the problem under discussion.
It also has nothing to do with movies being popular. If you perceive problems unrelated to the inflation problem you should start your own thread about it.
Last edited by mathiasa on July 6th, 2018, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#205

Post by mathiasa » July 6th, 2018, 12:09 pm

PeacefulAnarchy on Jul 5 2018, 10:59:56 AM wrote:
mathiasa on Jul 5 2018, 01:55:44 AM wrote:I‘m a bit disappointed by some of those who think this is not (yet) a problem because they never at least try go explain what their pain barrier is. I think it be helpful if people (esp. moderaters in charge of adoption) indicated at what yearly rate they feel we would have a problem.
We already feel it's a problem. But apparently the userbase (or a vocal part of it) doesn't. Every argument that it's not a problem is essentially "more blockbusters=better" and "why do you hate people working on the list and want to take away their checks?" No one actually engages with responses to that, though. I'm assuming the answer is "when box office mojo decides 200M isn't special and either ups the cutoff or removes it completely."
Good to hear you feel it is a problem. It‘s unfortunate that apparently
the userbase does not perceive this as of now. If people simply like blockbusters, this is fine and maybe we should have more blockbuster lists then.
But reading a lot of their posts here and elsewhere, it is clear that they simply fail to understand the problem. So a solution should be tried without their consent. Maybe adopt a bunch of lists for blockbuster or otherwise popular stuff for them. But I would not wait until the last user understands the problem does not include Brakhage.

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#206

Post by Darth Nevets » July 6th, 2018, 5:28 pm

mathiasa on Jul 6 2018, 05:58:42 AM wrote:
Darth Nevets on Jul 5 2018, 11:31:42 AM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Jul 5 2018, 10:59:56 AM wrote:We already feel it's a problem. But apparently the userbase (or a vocal part of it) doesn't. Every argument that it's not a problem is essentially "more blockbusters=better" and "why do you hate people working on the list and want to take away their checks?" No one actually engages with responses to that, though. I'm assuming the answer is "when box office mojo decides 200M isn't special and either ups the cutoff or removes it completely."
The problem is that the forum has inward bias, and really hates films that are popular. It's a problem in film criticism in general, often a film is held in higher regard for losing money (therefore not "giving in" to the marketplace). Case in point this thread, basically the only place where posters rail against the inclusion of films because they are films they find inherently worthless because the masses see them.

In virtually every negative reference in modern criticism to movie taste most critics will cite the Marvel movies in a negative context. Now the reality is that critics have liked most of the movies, virtually all release to critical acclaim far above most blockbusters. Yet the negativity persists, solely due to success, in a world with dozens of releases nowhere near the quality.

So myopic is the viewpoint around here that the worse the solution, the more approval it garners. The top 5 list from 75 on is totally worthless for instance, excluding dozens of major releases. The top 53 films are already on 11 lists and only three films would become official (soon to be four when Karate Kid 2 drops from All Time Box Office).

There isn't, however, a backlash against Stan Brakhage (just to drop a name). He has 123 official films by my count, with over 100 films on only a single list. In base arithmetic Brakhage would be more important than major releases by a factor of 25 in this case.
The nature of the problem has been made clear time and time again - many users have explained what it is - so it‘s very annoying to bring up Brakhage once again, for the same pointless argument. He has nothing to with the problem under discussion.
It also has nothing to do with movies being popular. If you perceive problems unrelated to the inflation problem you should start your own thread about it.
Accuses others of not understanding the problem, ignores entire post, cherrypicks one facet, ignores all points that counters argument, claims mental superiority. This post illustrates the problem in total, it just doesn't realize it.

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#207

Post by Darth Nevets » July 6th, 2018, 5:39 pm

mathiasa on Jul 6 2018, 06:09:02 AM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Jul 5 2018, 10:59:56 AM wrote:
mathiasa on Jul 5 2018, 01:55:44 AM wrote:I‘m a bit disappointed by some of those who think this is not (yet) a problem because they never at least try go explain what their pain barrier is. I think it be helpful if people (esp. moderaters in charge of adoption) indicated at what yearly rate they feel we would have a problem.
We already feel it's a problem. But apparently the userbase (or a vocal part of it) doesn't. Every argument that it's not a problem is essentially "more blockbusters=better" and "why do you hate people working on the list and want to take away their checks?" No one actually engages with responses to that, though. I'm assuming the answer is "when box office mojo decides 200M isn't special and either ups the cutoff or removes it completely."
Good to hear you feel it is a problem. It‘s unfortunate that apparently
the userbase does not perceive this as of now. If people simply like blockbusters, this is fine and maybe we should have more blockbuster lists then.
But reading a lot of their posts here and elsewhere, it is clear that they simply fail to understand the problem. So a solution should be tried without their consent. Maybe adopt a bunch of lists for blockbuster or otherwise popular stuff for them. But I would not wait until the last user understands the problem does not include Brakhage.
I pointed out many problems with the inflation argument, specifically in the post about Bond movies, and why it isn't really a problem. Especially since no one can convert historical grosses it would be purely a NA list. Older films have lists that properly place them in a proper context (See Ape example and OFOTCN) and have no use being in a list of hit films. People who use the list are looking to check movies they have recently seen, the very concept of this entire website, and these are the movies actually being most seen. I'm in the top 200 of the Golden Lotus list without any effort, and without even trying. No one can do that with ATWWBO.

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#208

Post by mathiasa » July 6th, 2018, 7:27 pm

You refer to some accidental presumable silver linings, like that james bond movie and conclude that hence we don‘t have a problem. This and the rest of your post is not helpful imo. You‘re too much away from reality - There are a lot of movie fans here who love big buck movies. I, contrary to your baseless assertion, do like the Marvel movies (I even watch the mcu series).
Stating untrue things is not the same as „pointing out“.
I‘m not against more blockbusters, but to let this be decided by chance through future monetary policy is simply not a very good idea.


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#210

Post by Harco » October 25th, 2019, 6:01 pm

So it was shortened to 200 titles. I couldn't have chosen a worse list to focus on. :rolleyes:

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#211

Post by albajos » October 25th, 2019, 6:02 pm

Is there a discussion to be had? As you don't about any movement in the 201-300 and thus not able to know if those are correct, those have to go.

And I have checked all 300. This is the principle, I don't care if I lose checks.

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#212

Post by joachimt » October 25th, 2019, 6:11 pm

albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Is there a discussion to be had? As you don't about any movement in the 201-300 and thus not able to know if those are correct, those have to go.
I have no idea what this means. Is my English bad or yours?
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#213

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 6:16 pm

joachimt wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:11 pm
albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Is there a discussion to be had? As you don't about any movement in the 201-300 and thus not able to know if those are correct, those have to go.
I have no idea what this means. Is my English bad or yours?
He's saying keeping it is not an option since we can't accurately track films not in the top 200.

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#214

Post by joachimt » October 25th, 2019, 6:23 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:16 pm
joachimt wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:11 pm
albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Is there a discussion to be had? As you don't about any movement in the 201-300 and thus not able to know if those are correct, those have to go.
I have no idea what this means. Is my English bad or yours?
He's saying keeping it is not an option since we can't accurately track films not in the top 200.
Ah right, that's what I said on the mods-board as well. We don't have a choice.
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#215

Post by jeroeno » October 25th, 2019, 7:47 pm

What does it mean for the worldwide list, that's not going to lose 590 titles right?

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#216

Post by Harco » October 25th, 2019, 8:04 pm

That's what it means, yeah.

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#217

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 8:07 pm

jeroeno wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 7:47 pm
What does it mean for the worldwide list, that's not going to lose 590 titles right?
Probably yeah. I'd give it a week to see if BoxOfficeMojo changes something, but our reasoning for not capping it was "follow the source." The source has capped it now. I wish they'd have capped it higher, say top 500, but it's imdb so they do what they do.

Long term I'd be in favour of adopting another box office list, say Top X by decade, which would bring back a number of those films and more, but it's not the same thing and some films would lose official status.

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#218

Post by joachimt » October 25th, 2019, 8:08 pm

jeroeno wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 7:47 pm
What does it mean for the worldwide list, that's not going to lose 590 titles right?
Both lists are capped at 200 at the source now, so even if we want to keep the lists as they are, there's no way of having the info. That would mean the lists on iCM will be capped as well.

We are open to discussions about a new official list though. I do think we should have something that highlights recent popular movies.
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#219

Post by OldAle1 » October 25th, 2019, 8:16 pm

Are there longer lists available on IMDbPro? Not that I would want anyone to have to pay money to access a longer list, but just curious. As it is, this was always one of my least-favorite lists so I don't much care, but if we're going to have box office lists at all I'd certainly like to see other ideas, like Peaceful's.

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#220

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 8:28 pm

From what I've read there are more filters (like studio/actor top lists) on imdb pro, but not longer lists. All the (incomplete) data is still there in that you can see data for individual movies and years.

If someone wants more there's also The Numbers which has somewhat different data than boxofficemojo but they have a 'full" worldwide all-time chart, which has no cutoff so isn't a reasonable source for a list but works for when you want to know something. https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office- ... -time/2001
There are other box office sites around but I think, for non-industry insiders who have access to the source, that's the second most popular one after Boxofficemojo.

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#221

Post by Minkin » October 25th, 2019, 8:36 pm

Finally we get some movement on this debate!

Still firmly in the "create a top X per year/decade" camp. A top ten per year would be ideal + sufficiently long enough to cover everything. Its far more interesting to know what was the 3rd highest grossing film of 1953, than what the 45th highest grossing film of 2018 was.

How about a new poll - either here or the "official forum"?


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#223

Post by Onderhond » October 25th, 2019, 9:09 pm

This blows to be honest. It's one of the few lists on a regular basis to keep up with the big blockbusters. It's basically the only list on ICM to fill that hole. I get that the cap is a big problem, but if we're looking for a substitute it would be nice to get a list with a similar constitution.

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#224

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 10:01 pm

albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 9:02 pm
More diverse box office lists
http://mentalfloss.com/article/68552/20 ... investment
https://www.pajiba.com/seriously_random ... l-time.php
Seems they can't agree on them though
Budgets have no consistent source and profitability really has no bearing for an audience. Box-office lists have appeal because they describe what's popular. Profitability lists are either a subset of those (if it's raw profitability) or highly focused on low cost with a breakout relative to those costs.

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#225

Post by albajos » October 25th, 2019, 10:10 pm

well, the issue with the 200M limit was that there were several economical flops on the list. Movies cost around 500M now (incl. marketing)

By only looking at percentage the focus are on independent ideas that found a broad audience anyway. Hollywood don't have to spend 500M, they just want to.

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#226

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 10:18 pm

Yeah but budgets aren't public and are commonly massaged for a narrative. There's no functional way to make a meaningful list on profitability.

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#227

Post by WalterNeff » October 26th, 2019, 1:59 am

Quick eyeballing the list and I'd lose about 100 checks, but conceivably remain the same rank. Lot of movies I'm surprised aren't on more than one list, but at least I wouldn't have to watch Sex in the City.

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#228

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 26th, 2019, 2:11 am

420 films are on at least one other list, 56 films in the top 200 are only on this list. That leaves 314 which would lose official status.

I would lose 293 official checks.

What I haven't seen in the Top200: 5 Fast and Furious movies, 4 Chinese Blockbusters, Passion of The Christ. (also Joker which will be Top200 when the list is updated)

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#229

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 3:56 am

These are the films that will lose official statusShow
201 Kung Fu Panda 3 2016
203 How to Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World 2019
204 Ant-Man 2015
206 The Grinch 2018
209 Rio 2 2014
214 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2014
215 Oz the Great and Powerful 2013
216 Clash of the Titans 2010
218 Angels & Demons 2009
219 Rio 2011
228 Hotel Transylvania 2 2015
230 San Andreas 2015
231 Wreck-It Ralph 2012
234 Bumblebee 2018
236 Star Trek Into Darkness 2013
239 Lucy 2014
244 National Treasure: Book of Secrets 2007
245 The Last Samurai 2003
248 Thor 2011
252 Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel 2009
258 Terminator Genisys 2015
259 Warcraft 2016 — a.k.a. Warcraft: The Beginning
260 It Chapter Two 2019
263 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines 2003
265 Die Another Day 2002
266 Pokémon Detective Pikachu 2019
268 The Secret Life of Pets 2 2019
269 Rampage 2018
275 The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian 2008
277 The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the... 2010
278 Jason Bourne 2016
279 Sex and the City 2008
280 The Wolverine 2013
281 Kingsman: The Secret Service 2014
283 Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian 2009
285 The Bodyguard 1992
286 Pacific Rim 2013
287 Kingsman: The Golden Circle 2017
288 The Mummy 2017
289 ce Age: Collision Course 2016
292 Alita: Battle Angel 2019
295 The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor 2008
296 Tron 2010 — a.k.a. TRON: Legacy
298 Snow White and the Huntsman 2012
300 Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again 2018
301 Twilight 2008
302 Solo: A Star Wars Story 2018
307 Independence Day: Resurgence 2016
308 Home 2015
309 Godzilla: King of the Monsters 2019
311 Zhuo yao ji 2015 — a.k.a. Monster Hunt
313 Cars 3 2017
314 Live Free or Die Hard 2007
316 Fifty Shades Darker 2017
317 Monsters vs. Aliens 2009
319 Godzilla 1998
323 Taken 2 2012
324 G.I. Joe: Retaliation 2013
328 The Adventures of Tintin 2011
330 X-Men Origins: Wolverine 2009
331 Penguins of Madagascar 2014
333 Fifty Shades Freed 2018
334 Terminator Salvation 2009
335 Captain America: The First Avenger 2011
342 Hitch 2005
343 Shark Tale 2004
345 The Nun 2018
346 Shazam! 2019
348 Once Upon a Time in... Hollywood 2019
350 Niht at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb 2014
351 Fast & Furious 2009
353 Noah 2014
355 The Hangover Part III 2013
356 The World Is Not Enough 1999
357 Zhuo yao ji 2 2018 — a.k.a. Monster Hunt 2
358 Alvin and the Chipmunks 2007
359 The Karate Kid 2010
361 Hotel Transylvania 2012
365 The Legend of Tarzan 2016
369 The Great Gatsby 2013
371 Dumbo 2019
373 Murder on the Orient Express 2017
374 Angry Birds 2016 — a.k.a. The Angry Birds Movie
377 Now You See Me 2013
380 Peter Rabbit 2018
382 Dinosaur 2000
383 Mary Poppins Returns 2018
384 Deep Impact 1998
385 The Lorax 2012
386 The Maze Runner 2014
387 The Smurfs 2 2013
391 Trolls 2016
392 xXx: Return of Xander Cage 2017
396 Alvin and the Chipmunks: Chipwrecked 2011
397 The Flintstones 1994
398 Wanted 2008
400 Enchanted 2007
401 300: Rise of an Empire 2014
403 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 2010
404 Over the Hedge 2006
405 Journey 2: The Mysterious Island 2012
407 The Great Wall 2016
408 Now You See Me 2 2016
411 Tomorrow Never Dies 1997
412 The Good Dinosaur 2015
414 22 Jump Street 2014
423 Taken 3 2014
425 A Christmas Carol 2009
426 The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water 2015
427 John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum 2019
429 Megamind 2010
432 Robin Hood 2010
437 The Last Airbender 2010
439 The Proposal 2009
442 The Expendables 2 2012
443 Chicken Little 2005
446 Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials 2015
447 Resident Evil: The Final Chapter 2016
449 The LEGO Batman Movie 2017
451 Ocean's Thirteen 2007
452 Little Fockers 2010
453 Bolt 2008
454 Ransom 1996
455 Runaway Bride 1999
457 The Fault in Our Stars 2014
459 Rise of the Guardians 2012
462 Annabelle: Creation 2017
464 Wrath of the Titans 2012
465 Skyscraper 2018
466 A Good Day to Die Hard 2013
468 Passengers 2016
469 Battleship 2012
472 G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra 2009
477 Van Helsing 2004
478 Resident Evil: Afterlife 2010
481 Alice Through the Looking Glass 2016
483 Real Steel 2011
484 Ocean's Eight 2018
485 Insurgent 2015
486 Horton Hears a Who! 2008
489 Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children 2016
491 Ferdinand 2017
494 Doctor Dolittle 1998
495 Salt 2010
496 G-Force 2009
499 Pacific Rim: Uprising 2018
501 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer 2007 — a.k.a. Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer
502 Divergent 2014
503 Coming to America 1988
506 Sex and the City 2 2010
507 Maze Runner: The Death Cure 2018
508 Casper 1995
509 Bee Movie 2007
511 Pitch Perfect 2 2015
513 Oblivion 2013
514 Elysium 2013
515 Lethal Weapon 4 1998
517 John Carter 2012
518 Turbo 2013
521 The Tourist 2010
523 xXx 2002
525 The Bourne Legacy 2012
526 Mr. Peabody & Sherman 2014
527 Scooby-Doo 2002
529 Lara Croft: Tomb Raider 2001
530 Tomb Raider 2018
531 The Expendables 2010
532 Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2 2013
535 Bad Boys II 2003
538 Grown Ups 2010
539 Neighbors 2014
541 We're the Millers 2013
543 10,000 BC 2008
544 Epic 2013
545 Exodus: Gods and Kings 2014
546 Paddington 2014
548 The Princess and the Frog 2009
550 Something's Gotta Give 2003
552 American Gangster 2007
557 The Incredible Hulk 2008
559 Bridget Jones: The Edge of Reason 2004
560 Knight and Day 2010
563 This Is It 2009
564 Robots 2005
565 The Lone Ranger 2013
567 Xun long jue 2015 — a.k.a. Mojin - The Lost Legend
573 Annabelle 2014
575 Gang jiong 2015 — a.k.a. Lost in Hong Kong
577 Halloween 2018
579 Us 2019
581 Gong fu yu jia 2017 — a.k.a. Kung Fu Yoga
582 Baahubali 2: The Conclusion 2017
584 Men in Black: International 2019
585 Wild Hogs 2007
586 High School Musical 3: Senior Year 2008
588 Dark Phoenix 2019
593 Enemy of the State 1998
594 Brother Bear 2003
595 The Mask of Zorro 1998
601 Glass 2019
602 Grown Ups 2 2013
604 Journey to the West: Demon Chapter 2017 — a.k.a. Journey to the West: The Demons Strike Back
605 The Peanuts Movie 2015
609 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows 2016
610 Dark Shadows 2012
612 Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis 2008 — a.k.a. Welcome to the Sticks
614 Pixels 2015
615 Hercules 2014
618 After Earth 2013
620 Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2009
622 Daddy's Home 2015
623 Marley & Me 2008
624 RoboCop 2014
626 Journey to the Center of the Earth 2008
627 Assassin's Creed 2016
628 Alien: Covenant 2017
629 Sully 2016
631 Resident Evil: Retribution 2012
632 'Crocodile' Dundee II 1988 — a.k.a. Crocodile Dundee II
633 Planes 2013
635 Batman & Robin 1997
637 Gulliver's Travels 2010
638 Gone in Sixty Seconds 2000
646 Spy 2015
648 American Reunion 2012
650 Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Road Chip 2015
652 The Day the Earth Stood Still 2008
657 American Wedding 2003
659 Constantine 2005
660 Get Smart 2008
662 The Heat 2013
663 Mr. Bean's Holiday 2007
665 Ghostbusters 2016
666 Ghost Rider 2007
667 Annabelle Comes Home 2019
668 Xia Luo te fan nao 2015 — a.k.a. Goodbye Mr. Loser
671 The Green Hornet 2011
675 Immortals 2011
676 Taken 2008
677 Percy Jackson & the Olympians: The Lightning Thief 2010
678 Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters 2013
680 Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets 2017
685 Flightplan 2005
686 Yes Man 2008
687 Non-Stop 2014
690 Jumper 2008
691 Wild Wild West 1999
692 Geostorm 2017
693 Presumed Innocent 1990
695 Scary Movie 3 2003
696 Inferno 2016
697 Green Lantern 2011
698 The Terminal 2004
699 What Happens in Vegas 2008
700 It's Complicated 2009
704 Jack Reacher 2012
705 The Emoji Movie 2017
707 Dracula Untold 2014
708 Central Intelligence 2016
710 Ted 2 2015
713 Valentine's Day 2010
714 Bad Teacher 2011
715 Clear and Present Danger 1994
718 Vertical Limit 2000
719 Ghostbusters II 1989
720 The Patriot 2000
721 The Sorcerer's Apprentice 2010
722 Just Go with It 2011
723 The Expendables 3 2014
725 Smallfoot 2018
726 Creed II 2018
729 Disclosure 1994
734 Into the Woods 2014
735 Bedtime Stories 2008
736 Miss Congeniality 2000
737 Entrapment 1999
738 Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls 1995
740 End of Days 1999
741 Bridget Jones's Baby 2016
742 Battle Los Angeles 2011
743 Fury 2014
744 Due Date 2010
745 Kingdom of Heaven 2005
747 Australia 2008
751 Horrible Bosses 2011
752 Red Dragon 2002
753 Tomorrowland 2015
754 A Series of Unfortunate Events 2004
755 Me Before You 2016
756 Safe House 2012
757 S.W.A.T. 2003
759 The Fast and the Furious 2001
760 Paranormal Activity 3 2011
764 London Has Fallen 2016
765 Xi you: Xiang mo pian 2013 — a.k.a. Journey to the West
767 White House Down 2013
768 The Ugly Truth 2009
769 The Holiday 2006
770 A Dog's Purpose 2017
771 The Break-Up 2006
772 Eat Pray Love 2010
773 King Arthur 2004
774 Everest 2015
775 Vanilla Sky 2001
777 Need for Speed 2014
778 Hairspray 2007
780 Patch Adams 1998
781 Fun with Dick and Jane 2005
785 21 Jump Street 2012
786 Yogi Bear 2010
787 Garfield 2004
788 Cats & Dogs 2001
789 The Hunt for Red October 1990
790 Valkyrie 2008
I've seen all but seven of them and have five or six on hold as we write. But at least _________________ will no longer be official! {you can insert the title(s) of the film(s) from the list you detest}

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#230

Post by sol » October 26th, 2019, 4:03 am

Since all of the info is easily accessible on Box Office Mojo, wouldn't it be possible to keep, update and maintain a spreadsheet for all films that I have earned $200M+ on a worldwide level?? Do we actually need a full list generated by the website to keep the info up-to-date?
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#231

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 4:07 am

As for how it would affect one on the leaderboard: someone leads me by 93 checks overall but has seen 100 fewer titles on the current, complete list and I lead another user by 82 checks but have seen 85 more titles on the current, complete list. It's really hard to predict, but I'd expect it to affect my ranking. I haven't gone line by line with those users, just compared our numbers of unchecked titles.

These kind of manipulations of the rankings are annoying, but it's the nature of iCM, so wtfygd?

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#232

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 26th, 2019, 4:09 am

sol wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 4:03 am
easily accessible
Accessible. Easily accessible is a stretch.

Yes it would be possible, but the only reason the list is as it stands is because we're following the notability criteria of the source. 200M+ has been an outdated criteria for some time, and it's not justifiable when the source no longer uses it. If I had to make my own criteria I'd probably do Top 500 instead of Top 200 like imdb chose, but it wouldn't be 200M+.

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#233

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 4:21 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 4:09 am
sol wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 4:03 am
easily accessible
Accessible. Easily accessible is a stretch.

Yes it would be possible, but the only reason the list is as it stands is because we're following the notability criteria of the source. 200M+ has been an outdated criteria for some time, and it's not justifiable when the source no longer uses it. If I had to make my own criteria I'd probably do Top 500 instead of Top 200 like imdb chose, but it wouldn't be 200M+.
This seems like a workable solution and depending on the source page(s), I'd be willing to update such a list weekly if it wasn't that much more time consuming than my current IMDb lists.

I'm not a fan of completely replacing the the long box office list with 10 decade lists though - I would see those as additions, to pull focus to a specific decade's box office leaders. Removing 314 mostly 'recent' films and replacing them with a so far unspecified number of films from earlier eras really is a
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#234

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 26th, 2019, 5:15 am

Well it wouldn't be replacing, the top 200 would still be there. It's something to add another perspective to the box office lists.

Also Top 500 is what I would do. But if it were up to me I also would have changed the list to Top 500 years ago, before this thread even existed. (and if I were BOM I wouldn't have made a redesign that wastes a huge amount of space and requires a dozen clicks and pull down menus for everything). I don't see it as particularly viable for ICM since following the source is much easier than doing that, and inflation will push away the movies currently in the bottom half anyway.

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#235

Post by Onderhond » October 26th, 2019, 8:10 am

Just chiming in between all the "losing x amount of checks" and "official check" talk, but the function of the list is to showcase blockbusters. If doesn't really matter if they're all still official in the end but spread across 40 other lists.

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#236

Post by joachimt » October 26th, 2019, 8:20 am

Onderhond wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 8:10 am
Just chiming in between all the "losing x amount of checks" and "official check" talk, but the function of the list is to showcase blockbusters. If doesn't really matter if they're all still official in the end but spread across 40 other lists.
Agree. That’s why we need to find a source that gives a good list of recent cinema hits.

The WW BO list actually gives that list, because the top 200 will always contain the biggest hits of the past year (haven’t collected numbers yet). It’s just a shame that in the years to come everything will be pushed off because of inflation.
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#237

Post by albajos » October 26th, 2019, 8:31 am

That's why you also have ome adjusted for inflation

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#238

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 8:48 am

Onderhond wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 8:10 am
Just chiming in between all the "losing x amount of checks" and "official check" talk, but the function of the list is to showcase blockbusters. If doesn't really matter if they're all still official in the end but spread across 40 other lists.
well, if we were to do a bunch of decade box office lists, the number of titles per decade would be different. I'm pretty confident there are more than 10 titles from both the 00s and 10s that will lose official status. So if we make new lists like "box office leaders of the 2000s" and they are only 10 titles long, then those ten titles will be titles already on the list of the remaining 200. If we go to 50 titles, then maybe some of the titles that have lost official status will start to creep back in to officialdom, but there's a higher chance that new titles from, say the 30s and 40s will become official and those WON'T be titles that have fallen off the reformatted box office leaders list. So, no matter how long decade lists are, it will be a change - not an improvement or replacement - for what will soon be lost. Also, would there really be 50 movies from the 30s that made 200,000,000 even after adjusting for inflation? I don't have the answer, but it would be nice to see some real examples.

Ultimately, we need to decide the breadth and scope of blockbuster that deserve to be featured, and hasn't this been the discussion all along?

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#239

Post by joachimt » October 26th, 2019, 8:55 am

xianjiro wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 8:48 am
I don't have the answer, but it would be nice to see some real examples.
I was just planning to do this, but I'm going out in a few minutes......
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#240

Post by joachimt » October 26th, 2019, 8:59 am

First of all, these numbers are interesting:

Number of movies in the WW BO list sorted by year:
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I want to make the same graph for the new top 200, but now I'm really off, so someone else can continue such things......

EDIT:
Here is the same graph for the top 200 that's on the new BOM site.

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Last edited by joachimt on October 26th, 2019, 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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