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Which official lists shouldn't be official?

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Which official lists shouldn't be official?

#1

Post by mjf314 »

Which official lists deserve their official status? Which ones don't?

We don't currently have any plans to unadopt lists (so if you see your favorite list show up in a poll, don't get too worried). This thread is just to satisfy my curiosity. I think the horror list is the only one that people have been discussing, but a decision hasn't been made.

In the polls, if you vote "It should be unadopted," other lists of the same type can still potentially get adopted, but not necessarily at the same time.

IMDb horror board
50 Greatest Sequels
More Noirs from TSPDT
The Best 100 Chinese Motion Pictures
Spike Lee
Anthology Film Archives
Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen
Taschen 100
Times French
Last edited by mjf314 on September 3rd, 2015, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#2

Post by Apu »

Removing the so-established Horror list would cast a pall on many users I think, and I'm against removing lists once they've been adopted on principle. However, it is a bit outdated, and an exception isn't out of the question in this case.
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#3

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Which list is the imdb horrr board list?
(I know which one it is, but just calling it by its name might be more clear for people)
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on September 2nd, 2015, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#4

Post by mjf314 »

Lonewolf2003 on Sep 2 2015, 01:50:17 PM wrote:Which list is the imdb horrr board list?
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... or+movies/

I'll edit the question to clarify that.
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#5

Post by Gershwin »

The 50 Greatest Sequels list is the biggest anomaly in the history of iCM. Unadopt it right away, I'd say.

As for the horror list, I voted for "It should be unadopted and replaced by TSZDT".
That being said, I do think that the BFI European Horror list should be adopted as well. But it doesn't influence my opinion about the current horror list and TSZDT, that's why I voted like I did.
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#6

Post by Torgo »

Apu, what were your thoughts on the replacement of the Martial Arts list?


Concerning the Top 500 Horror: Actually, I don't like the idea of unadopting lists too, plus I'm sure many people who're not usual iCM users (!) may have worked on it and I myself was finally coming close to a bronze ..
But it's less thoughtfully sourced, vastly overlapping with TSZDT and worse by a mile, so I just can't argue for keeping both. :shrug:
Last edited by Torgo on September 2nd, 2015, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#7

Post by WalterNeff »

As the arbiter of Noir, I voted for unadopt and replace. I'd wait until the full new list is available before unadopting.
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#8

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

The answers are a bit misleading, now it could seem like TSZDT will only get adopted when the imdb board one gets unadopted. Which is not the case as far as I know.
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#9

Post by mjf314 »

Lonewolf2003 on Sep 2 2015, 01:54:54 PM wrote:The answers are a bit misleading, now it could seem like TSZDT will only get adopted when the imdb board one gets unadopted. Which is not the case as far as I know.
I just changed it from "only if" to "only when." Maybe that's more clear. If it's replaced by TSZDT, then the European horror list will (probably) still be adopted in the future.
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#10

Post by Torgo »

Gershwin on Sep 2 2015, 01:52:51 PM wrote:The 50 Greatest Sequels list is the biggest anomaly in the history of iCM. Unadopt it right away, I'd say.
Uh, how harsh. What's your problem with it?
I like the idea of the list quite much because it's such a typical nerd question (not only among hardcore cineasts, but also common film buffs): "Which are the best sequels?"
I could also imagine one or two more lists with such a naive approach. Not everything has to be canon, critic-approved or of a respected source. -_-
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#11

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

mjf314 on Sep 2 2015, 01:57:47 PM wrote:
Lonewolf2003 on Sep 2 2015, 01:54:54 PM wrote:The answers are a bit misleading, now it could seem like TSZDT will only get adopted when the imdb board one gets unadopted. Which is not the case as far as I know.
I just changed it from "only if" to "only when." Maybe that's more clear. If it's replaced by TSZDT, then the European horror list will (probably) still be adopted in the future.
Just to be sure; the adoptation if TSZDT doesn't depend on the unadaoptation of the imdb board one does it? That one will get adopted no matter if the imdb board one still is official or not?
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#12

Post by Harco »

1. TSZDT should replace Top 500 Horror. Euro Horror is a bonus.
2. It's probably the worst list on iCM but if we are to unadopt it, I would like to see some form of replacement. I'm not for unadopting and not replacing a list with something better and/or similar.
3. Unadopted and replaced.
4. From the top of my head, I don't know that list so I don't really have an opinion at the moment.
5. Spike Lee should stay official. I like him and it contains some crucial films, yeah.
6. I don't really like the Anthology list but I still think we should keep it, unless, maybe, we can find a good experimental list to replace it with.
7. Definitely time to replace the IMDb lists.
8. No opinion. Only seen 1/50.
Last edited by Harco on September 2nd, 2015, 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#13

Post by Apu »

@Torgo: generally indifferent to the old martial arts list. That list, too, got replaced for a good reason. However, my slight concern with Top 500 Horror is that it's a classic and established iCM-list by now. Call me conservative if you want. It's not that it matters much for me personally if it gets unadopted or not, but I'm against it on principle.
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#14

Post by Torgo »

"Should the Anthology Film Archives list be official?
- It should be unadopted and replaced with an experimental list"

-> Perfect answer.
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#15

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Torgo on Sep 2 2015, 02:02:06 PM wrote:
Gershwin on Sep 2 2015, 01:52:51 PM wrote:The 50 Greatest Sequels list is the biggest anomaly in the history of iCM. Unadopt it right away, I'd say.
Uh, how harsh. What's your problem with it?
I like the idea of the list quite much because it's such a typical nerd question (not only among hardcore cineasts, but also common film buffs): "Which are the best sequels?"
I could also imagine one or two more lists with such a naive approach. Not everything has to be canon, critic-approved or of a respected source. -_-
I don't see what's so wrong with it either. And agree with you it's the kind if question filmfans ask and therefor is a fun intersting list.
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#16

Post by mjf314 »

I have to go now but I might add more polls later. If anyone has a list in mind that you want a poll for, let me know.
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#17

Post by Torgo »

The Taschen Top 1000 did astonishingly well in the poll (#23). If so many replacements are considered here, we should have a thought about the old, smaller Taschen Top 100 and the big one.
(I don't really have an opinion on this, it just stroke my eye on the Misc tab)

One of the weirdest lists on iCM: Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own. I'm convinced many non-casual iCM visitors won't even get what it's all about, and the list itself is indeed strange. (Personally, I'm not for removing it since it just feels like classic iCM to me. And I like the obscurity.)

Well-intended by The Guys, but not a useful list at all: Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen. It's odd and slightly entertaining, but could instantly be replaced by a similar, superior list. No doubts about that.
Last edited by Torgo on September 2nd, 2015, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#18

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

mjf314 on Sep 2 2015, 02:07:47 PM wrote:I have to go now but I might add more polls later. If anyone has a list in mind that you want a poll for, let me know.
All imdb genre lists
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#19

Post by Gershwin »

Torgo on Sep 2 2015, 02:12:29 PM wrote:The Taschen Top 1000 did astonishingly well in the poll (#23). If so many replacements are considered here, we should have a thought about the old, smaller Taschen Top 100 and the big one.
(I don't really have an opinion on this, it just stroke my eye on the Misc tab)
This is actually not one list. It's just a collection of all the individual Taschen decade lists on which you voted -1. :P
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#20

Post by Gershwin »

Before I vote on a few polls:

- What's actually wrong with the Chinese list? I don't know much about it.
- The IMDb decade lists should stay, but other decade lists should be added as well, so I don't see the option I want to vote for. :)
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#21

Post by Limedebois »

To be clear for all members who don't care to read the sources, the Anthology list is a list of so-called significant films and it's established by auteurs who all know themselves and nominate their own films in the list. Whatever the importance of other entries and if they are talented or not, that's not the question, it's just a matter of integrity. It's like having Roland Emmerich creating an association named "The Hollywood New Anthology Archives", naming Jerry Bruckeneimer as vice-chairman and each voting for each films they've made. Don't be fouled by the title "anthology", there's nothing official here, like BFI or The National Film Registry. The films of these directors could be found elsewhere, if they deserved to be official... And now that a lot of people has checked most easy checks in this list, c'est toujours ça de pris, but for new members who would be part of the prom night side, at least, give them some diversity in term of easy checks. Having Méliès, Lumière and all Brackage films, and constituting about 1/5 (or more), for an anthology, that's quite weird. And "It was an ambitious attempt to define the art of cinema." Curious attempt to define Lumière brothers as artists... Just put some old and random French je-ne-sais-quoi and voilà! It looks "art", but it's not. Just pretend. The first rule of Mr Crook: don't let people talk about you, sell yourself, instead: "Hello, my name is Ayn Rand, and I'm very rational (and smarter than you because, hey, because, that's logical)." "Hello, this life insurance is the best you will ever find, you're really a lucky guy!" "Hello, we are the Anthology’s Film Selection Committee, and we will define art through some significant and undoubted masterpiece. Oh, that's unexpected, all of our own films are mentioned in our selection. We are really the best, no doubt."
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#22

Post by Gershwin »

Lonewolf2003 on Sep 2 2015, 02:07:01 PM wrote:
Torgo on Sep 2 2015, 02:02:06 PM wrote:
Gershwin on Sep 2 2015, 01:52:51 PM wrote:The 50 Greatest Sequels list is the biggest anomaly in the history of iCM. Unadopt it right away, I'd say.
Uh, how harsh. What's your problem with it?
I like the idea of the list quite much because it's such a typical nerd question (not only among hardcore cineasts, but also common film buffs): "Which are the best sequels?"
I could also imagine one or two more lists with such a naive approach. Not everything has to be canon, critic-approved or of a respected source. -_-
I don't see what's so wrong with it either. And agree with you it's the kind if question filmfans ask and therefor is a fun intersting list.
Well, I'm totally in favour of lists with more popular picks. That's not the issue here. But a source does have to be solid, whether it's by critics or by popular vote.

I didn't think about the idea of the nerd thing with "best sequel", which might be nice indeed. But wouldn't there be a better list? This one has always seemed very random to me, like any random top 20 or 50 or whatever list sites like IndieWire many times a week. Maybe some user generated list would be better?
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#23

Post by monty »

More noirs? Really? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Last edited by monty on September 2nd, 2015, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#24

Post by mjf314 »

Gershwin on Sep 2 2015, 02:16:48 PM wrote:- What's actually wrong with the Chinese list? I don't know much about it.
Nothing is really wrong with it. It's a good list, but it's getting a little bit old (2005). Also, if people are against having too many Chinese lists, then replacing it with a different list (like a mainland list or a decade list) might be better for variety.
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#25

Post by monty »

mjf314 on Sep 2 2015, 01:35:29 PM wrote: This thread is just to satisfy my curiosity.
Oh, really? How droll. You should have said so in the topic heading.
No point in voting then.
Last edited by monty on September 2nd, 2015, 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#26

Post by WalterNeff »

monty on Sep 2 2015, 04:42:36 PM wrote:More noirs? Really? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
only 38 more, actually.
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#27

Post by monty »

WalterNeff on Sep 2 2015, 04:46:05 PM wrote:
monty on Sep 2 2015, 04:42:36 PM wrote:More noirs? Really? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
only 38 more, actually.
It should have stopped at the first list. How you ever got two giant lists adopted is beyond me.
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#28

Post by Limedebois »

I should have say that the Anthology list was good. The list would have be seen automatically suspect. Don't ask me to save your ass, even though you find a pomp in your toilets. That's what we call being alf-minded.

(hey, mods, I still have a Ayn Rand thread "to be approved" since last week; you don't want to see what looks like Alf when he eats cats, so publish the topic, I really want to know more about perception of Rand "poetry")
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#29

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Limedebois on Sep 2 2015, 05:32:51 PM wrote:(hey, mods, I still have a Ayn Rand thread "to be approved" since last week; you don't want to see what looks like Alf when he eats cats, so publish the topic, I really want to know more about perception of Rand "poetry")
Where is it? I don't see it. Edit: Done. New Topics don't show up the same way as unapproved posts. If it happens again just make a post in the off-topic thread so we can do it manually.

Also I agree with you about Anthology Film Archives.
Last edited by PeacefulAnarchy on September 2nd, 2015, 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#30

Post by mjf314 »

Gershwin on Sep 2 2015, 02:16:48 PM wrote:- The IMDb decade lists should stay, but other decade lists should be added as well, so I don't see the option I want to vote for. :)
Then vote "Yes, they should be official." If the IMDb lists remain official, other decade lists can still be adopted.

I just added a few more polls.
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#31

Post by WalterNeff »

monty on Sep 2 2015, 04:47:38 PM wrote:
WalterNeff on Sep 2 2015, 04:46:05 PM wrote:
monty on Sep 2 2015, 04:42:36 PM wrote:More noirs? Really? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
only 38 more, actually.
It should have stopped at the first list. How you ever got two giant lists adopted is beyond me.
It's really only 1 giant list, which will be replaced. There's the IMDb genre list, the 250 Quintessential Noir list, both of which were official before I joined, and the megalist, which I got adopted.
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#32

Post by monty »

Hehe, you just keep rubbing it in, neffie.
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#33

Post by Torgo »

<_<
Now, almost all of the lists have got the last option: "should be unadopted, but replaced with a better list", one option which is missing for the sequels. Maybe there are significantly better lists than this. I not only like the idea, but also the highly mainstreamy execution. (Always think of our average, mainstream trash loving user ;) ).

We should be fair enough to ask if people want that sequel thing all gone or can imagine a better list for this purpose. (One voted by the iCM users, for example .. :whistling: )
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#34

Post by mjf314 »

Torgo on Sep 2 2015, 06:17:04 PM wrote: <_<
Now, almost all of the lists have got the last option: "should be unadopted, but replaced with a better list", one option which is missing for the sequels. Maybe there are significantly better lists than this. I not only like the idea, but also the highly mainstreamy execution. (Always think of our average, mainstream trash loving user ;) ).

We should be fair enough to ask if people want that sequel thing all gone or can imagine a better list for this purpose. (One voted by the iCM users, for example .. :whistling: )
I didn't include that option because I don't know of any other sequel lists, but I'm not sure if I ever looked for one. I'll do that now. If I find one then I'll make a new poll.
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#35

Post by mjf314 »

Here's one (I didn't look at it carefully so I don't know how good it is):
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tota ... iedearest/

Edit: Here's a list of 20 trilogies (the list creator is a critic):
http://letterboxd.com/lordcookie/list/2 ... es/detail/
Last edited by mjf314 on September 3rd, 2015, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#36

Post by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi »

monty on Sep 2 2015, 06:08:24 PM wrote:Hehe, you just keep rubbing it in, neffie.
No, Neffie's talking sense. We essentially have one noir list -- the TSPDT 250 along with its expansion list. The imdb genre list, like all imdb genre lists, is negligible.

If we have room for a double-list samurai list (which I voted a 4), then we have room for tspdt's definitive noir list. Both will be great additions to the site.
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#37

Post by mjf314 »

Here's a sequel list created by Tarantino: http://letterboxd.com/vanhammersly/list ... e-sequels/
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#38

Post by cinephage »

I'm strongly against unadopting lists... This voting and freedom in the change of lists mostly makes things less simple.
What if one of these lists get unadopted, then readopted after an additional vote in one year ? As voters change from one time to another, this is quite possible.
I think the lists should stay as they are, as I hate standing on unstable ground. I don't mind the possibility to add more lists, the more the merrier, but unadopting lists is really unfriendly to those who worked on those lists.
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#39

Post by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi »

cinephage on Sep 2 2015, 06:54:37 PM wrote:I'm strongly against unadopting lists... This voting and freedom in the change of lists mostly makes things less simple.
What if one of these lists get unadopted, then readopted after an additional vote in one year ? As voters change from one time to another, this is quite possible.
I think the lists should stay as they are, as I hate standing on unstable ground. I don't mind the possibility to add more lists, the more the merrier, but unadopting lists is really unfriendly to those who worked on those lists.
I certainly agree with this. Fortunately, I don't think there has ben any significant push for any lists to be unadopted.
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#40

Post by mjf314 »

cinephage on Sep 2 2015, 06:54:37 PM wrote:I think the lists should stay as they are, as I hate standing on unstable ground. I don't mind the possibility to add more lists, the more the merrier, but unadopting lists is really unfriendly to those who worked on those lists.
You don't have to think of it as unfriendly. You could think of it as helping people out by giving them a better list to work on (in the case of a replacement).
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