Amos Vogel's film as a subversive art list

[Armoreska]

Scratch that, apparently it's included in some TV show episode about George Dunning which is in a uni library in Sydney, that'll be easier to get to. Will update anon.

I guess it's done? Happy checking

[onshy]

And here is the youtube link to the long waited George Dunning's short Damon the Mower (1972), feautred in the Amon Vogel's Film as subversive art:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV8TpQ8ZjKk

Thanks to the uploader!

[Kasparius]

Cool beans

[Harco]

Time flies when you're having fun.

Thanks, though. ;)

[funkybusiness]

That's pretty great.


The source poem: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/damonmow.htm

[SanderO]

Great short, thanks!

[SanderO]

Oh, and I found a first edition of the Dutch language version hiding in my dad's bookcase. He had bought in on a whim in the 70's but had never even opened it

[JM1138]

Could pretend I'm the uploader...probably won't fly. There goes my fifteen minutes of ICM fame. Oh well, a really cool short! Glad someone got hold of it.

[WalterNeff]

8 Flags/99¢ (1970)

[SanderO]

Yay, thanks for the link Walter!

[3rd]

Thanks Walter but I can't seem to see/stream it, only buffering the whole time

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Thanks Walter but I can't seem to see/stream it, only buffering the whole time

The video's an embedded mp4, you don't even need an add-on to save it, just right click on it and choose save.
But I got a direct link for you all the same http://184.107.249.122/collections/medi ... 264_hi.mp4

[3rd]

Thanks Walter but I can't seem to see/stream it, only buffering the whole time

http://184.107.249.122/collections/medi ... 264_hi.mp4

Thanks Peaceful

[SanderO]

Desnutricion Infantil (ICM)

[Armoreska]

Desnutricion Infantil (ICM)

It's some progress, but no subs from Spanish

[Eva_L]

Desnutricion Infantil (ICM)

It's some progress, but no subs from Spanish

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

[bal3x]

Yay, thanks for the link Walter!

+1

[epp]

Nice find guys

[onshy]

8 Flags/99¢ (1970)

Wow! Thank you Walter!

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Desnutricion Infantil (ICM)

It's some progress, but no subs from Spanish

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

[3rd]

It's some progress, but no subs from Spanish

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

Thanks Peaceful, still no subs though

[Armoreska]

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

Thanks Peaceful, still no subs though

Well duh, did you expect they'd just clear up among all the additional pixels?

[sortile9io]

It's some progress, but no subs from Spanish

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

Although I miss 1 out of 4-5 words, including what seems to be the name of a local dish, I'd say:
1. the woman at 1:58 tells how she tries to make better meals with a stock cube she buys at the grocer's; sometimes she can't because her 3000 pesos are not enough for everything she needs and so now she's got into debt too.
2. the man at 3:03 explains how he has managed to build and renovate that small house little by little during the last 12 years they've been living there.

[joachimt]

I can speak Spanish (but I'm not that good ) and I started watching the film. When the documentary guy is talking, I can understand it pretty well, but then this woman comes on, and it's really hard to understand, because the quality isn't great, and she speaks very fast and not that clearly.

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

Although I miss 1 out of 4-5 words, including what seems to be the name of a local dish, I'd say:
1. the woman at 1:58 tells how she tries to make better meals with a stock cube she buys at the grocer's; sometimes she can't because her 3000 pesos are not enough for everything she needs and so now she's got into debt too.
2. the man at 3:03 explains how he has managed to build and renovate that small house little by little during the last 12 years they've been living there.

So who will make subs?

[onshy]

Yeah, that woman is impossible to understand.

If you register you can get a higher quality version which has slightly better sound. I put it up on youtube http://youtu.be/DGkyNDzfMKw

Although I miss 1 out of 4-5 words, including what seems to be the name of a local dish, I'd say:
1. the woman at 1:58 tells how she tries to make better meals with a stock cube she buys at the grocer's; sometimes she can't because her 3000 pesos are not enough for everything she needs and so now she's got into debt too.
2. the man at 3:03 explains how he has managed to build and renovate that small house little by little during the last 12 years they've been living there.

So who will make subs?

I don't know if this could be of any use, but here's the transription of "Desnutrición infantil" from Spanish to... Italian

Some parts are very difficult to understand because of the bad audio

I bambini in Cile vivono in un ambiente con tutte le limitazioni proprie di una società sottosviluppata
Una di queste limitazioni, forse la più grave, è la sottoalimentazione
e questo problema è più acuto nei settori operai e contadini
ovvero la stragrande maggioranza dei Cileni.
0.57-1.26 ??

- ... perché mio marito è pittore. A volte sta 6-7 mesi senza lavoro,
così che per i bambini non abbiamo nient'altro che...
ci sono giorni in cui hanno da mangiare
e altri giorni no.
E vanno a scuola con solo una tazza di te.
Io (??) a volte ricevono (??)
Poche cose e con quelle, più o meno, ci arrangiamo.

Anche le stanze in cui vivono queste famiglie mostrano i segni del sottosviluppo.

2.04-2.24 ??

- ...la stanza da letto dei bambini, devo dormire con tutti i bambini... [??]

- Le epidemie che sono causate dal bagno,
perché qui non c'è il bagno, credo sia la cosa peggiore per i bambini.
Per esempio, io tengo tutti i miei bambini dove non c'è la fogna nè il bagno,
dove c'è il pozzo nero.
Allora, da quel pozzo escono molti microbi
che contaminano i bambini.
I bambini li respirano e questo è molto grave per la salute, molto grave.
Così che le cose più importanti per allevare un bambino sono, secondo me, l'igiene e l'alimentazione.

Queste famiglie vivono colpite dalla disoccupazione,
dalla mancanza di istruzione e dalla denutrizione, senza abitazioni adeguate.
I bambini di queste famiglie sono circondati da ambienti poco salubri e miseri
dove portano avanti le loro attività principali:
i giochi e il lavoro, contributo necessario per la sussistenza loro e del gruppo familiare al quale appartengono.

4.05-4.22 ??

Questi bambini, che sopportano tutto il peso di una società avversa,
soffrono maggiormente per le carenze alimentari.

- Certo, in primo luogo dar loro una buona alimentazione.
Dar loro il latte a colazione, alle 11, se possibile la sera,
solo che non è possibile.
Devo dar loro (??), a volte non c'è neanche quello.
Spesso quello che c'è è una tazza di te con un po' di pane, niente più.
E va così. E prometto loro il latte per la volta seguente,
ma non mi basta neanche per i più grandi.
Per esempio, le bambine le allatto al seno
e quando tolgo il seno devo cominciare a diminuire le dosi,
così che non ho modo di nutrirle come dovrebbe essere nutrito un bambino.
Non avevo modo di alimentarle bene.
(??)

Le madri si recano negli ospedali e policlinici
con i bambini sofferenti delle più varie malattie,
ma la causa per alcune, e la gravità per tutte, ha un denominatore comune: la denutrizione.
E la denutricione si mostra anche con la sua vera faccia.

- Volevo dare più latte al bambino, chiaro.
Ma devo darne un po' anche all'altro, non faccio preferenze.
Questa è la nostra situazione. Se si ammala un bambino lo fai visitare, devi pagare per il consulto
e se non hai più soldi per la cura...
Così ora noi poveri siamo costretti a lasciare che i bambini muoiano appena si ammalano,
perchè non abbiamo mezzi.

Quanti bambini non riescono a raggiungere gli ospedali?
Quanti di quelli che arrivano guariscono e quanti muoiono?
In Cile, secondo il servicio Nacional de Salud,
i bambini di meno di 1 anno che sono morti nel 1968 furono 22.807:
ovvero 1900 al mese, tutti i giorni muoiono 63 bambini
2 all'ora, 1 ogni trenta minuti.

Quanti si salvano da questo massacro?
Quanti continuano a vivere? Quanti vegetando a malapena?
Sono cifre, cifre che compongono la nostra popolazione infantile,
i futuri uomini del Cile, segnati dalle caratteristiche che li distinguono:
l'aver sofferto la fame, il soffrire la fame, sono un fattore comune tra la nostra gente.
Aggrappati a un pezzo di pane come fosse un'ancora di salvezza,
resistono e sfuggono al rischio di una morte prematura.
Ma questi sopravvissuti, magiatori di pane, dove vanno?
Spesso vittime di malattie la cui unica medicina è il cibo.
Dovranno essere genitori di figli miseri come loro,
li vedranno crescere e morire così come è toccato ai loro genitori.
Sì, sono bambini, futuri uomini con speranze e capacità insospettate,
con un ruolo da svolgere di fronte al mondo.
Ma riusciranno a sfruttare le loro capacità manifeste o potenziali?
O il sistema in cui vivono continuerà a limitarli
con la disoccupazione, la denutrizione e la miseria?
I nostri figli vivono nell'arretratezza,
vivono e giocano nella spazzatura,
vivono, giocano e vegetano nella miseria.

[Armoreska]

judging from the Languages thread, George Bailey, Chilton and Lampadatriste read Italian

[PeacefulAnarchy]

I don't know if this could be of any use, but here's the transription of "Desnutrición infantil" from Spanish to... Italian

So there's no Spanish transcription? I really don't feel like making subs for this kind of thing but I'd translate a Spanish transcription.

[joachimt]

Can you translate the Italian for us, onshy?

[sortile9io]

I don't know if this could be of any use, but here's the transription of "Desnutrición infantil" from Spanish to... Italian

So there's no Spanish transcription? I really don't feel like making subs for this kind of thing but I'd translate a Spanish transcription.

If there is a real interest in this short I can help with the original Spanish transcription but I don't know how to make subtitles.

[allisoncm]

I don't know if this could be of any use, but here's the transription of "Desnutrición infantil" from Spanish to... Italian

So there's no Spanish transcription? I really don't feel like making subs for this kind of thing but I'd translate a Spanish transcription.

If there is a real interest in this short I can help with the original Spanish transcription but I don't know how to make subtitles.

Someone can probably offer to do the timings.

[sortile9io]

So there's no Spanish transcription? I really don't feel like making subs for this kind of thing but I'd translate a Spanish transcription.

If there is a real interest in this short I can help with the original Spanish transcription but I don't know how to make subtitles.

Someone can probably offer to do the timings.

OK, I do the Chilean-Spanish part.

[joachimt]

If there is a real interest in this short I can help with the original Spanish transcription but I don't know how to make subtitles.

Someone can probably offer to do the timings.

OK, I do the Chilean-Spanish part.

Shall I make the timings then?
Or maybe Peaceful can do it? If he's going to translate the Spanish transcription, it might be the easiest way to do that simultaneously?

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Shall I make the timings then?

Please do. I don't like making timings.

[joachimt]

Alright, I will.

sortile9io, can you make the transcription first? Then I can fill in the lines in the srt and Peaceful can translate from there.

[sortile9io]

Alright, I will.

sortile9io, can you make the transcription first? Then I can fill in the lines in the srt and Peaceful can translate from there.

Sure, I'm working on it right now. Before you begin, wait until I finish (probably today) because I'm already including all the main timings (they make my job easier) and you can use them as a starting point.

[joachimt]

Alright, I will.

sortile9io, can you make the transcription first? Then I can fill in the lines in the srt and Peaceful can translate from there.

Sure, I'm working on it right now. Before you begin, wait until I finish (probably today) because I'm already including all the main timings (they make my job easier) and you can use them as a starting point.

Thanks! Rough timings will be very helpful for me.

[sortile9io]

By the way, I've just realized we already have a "Subtitles" topic in the "General Film Discussion". Maybe we should be posting there.

[sortile9io]

Well, this is the transcription and main timings for the higher quality version of the short posted by PeacefulAnarchy. I've tried to put down every single word but in some cases I really can't make out what those people are saying. [...] stands for those parts. I guess we'll have to omit a few sentences then.

Spoiler: click to toggle

1:30 – 1:37 / narrator
Los niños en Chile viven en un medio con todas las limitaciones propias de una sociedad subdesarrollada.

1:39 – 1:55 / narrator
Una de estas limitaciones, quizás la más grave, es la subalimentación. Y este problema adquiere su mayor agudeza en los sectores obreros y campesinos, es decir, la gran mayoría de los chilenos.

1:56 – 2:22 / woman
—Bueno, ahora estoy haciendo [guarapa]. Ayer hice un [...] y ya [...] y echo una pastilla de esas que venden en el almacén porque si no me alcanza la plata no puedo hacer [...] buenos yo mejores. Porque yo quiero hacer mejor pero no puedo. Porque la plata no me alcanza. Con 3000 pesos no hago nada. Y una cosa: desde que voy al almacén a veces quedo debiendo porque no me alcanza, para unas cosas compro y para otras no.

2:25 – 2:55 / woman
—Porque mi esposo es pintor. A veces le pasan 7 meses, 6 meses que no tiene trabajo. Así que ahí nosotros tenemos los niños nada más que... hay días que tienen para comer y otros días no. Y se me van al colegio con una pura taza de té en la tarde. Yo, a veces recibo unos [...] así de... cositas pocas y con eso más o menos les vamos dando.

2:56 – 3:02 / narrator
Las habitaciones donde viven estas familias tienen también el sello del subdesarrollo.

3:03 – 3:21 / man
—Y luego con la inteligencia que uno tiene hacerla por aquí y por allá un trabajo, no tendría ningún [...]. [...]. Yo llevo aquí para los doce años trabajando, haciendo [...] una muralla otra manera. A poquito. Y así llegué haciendo esto poco a poco.

3:24 – 3:40 / woman
—[...] todo lo que ve. [...] está todo borrado. La pieza de dormitorio de los niños tengo que poner en una sola pieza.... en una pieza tengo que dormir con todos los niños porque se me [...] entera.

3:42 – 4:33 / woman
La epidemia que viene por el baño, porque aquí no hay baño y ello creo que eso es lo más inmundo para los niños. Por ejemplo, yo tengo todos mis niños en una parte que no... no tengan... no tengan esta... alcantarilla, que no tenga baño, que tengan un pozo negro, nada más. Entonces, de ahí, de ese pozo, ya salen muchos... muchos microbios. Salen a flotar. Ahí ya eso lo van aspirando los niños. Así que eso va mucho contra la salud de ellos, eso va mucho. Así que, lo más que se tiene que tener un niño para que se críe bien, considero yo que ha de ser el aseo y la alimentación.

4:35 – 5:03 / narrator
Estas familias viven golpeadas por la cesantía, la falta de educación, la desnutrición. Sin habitaciones adecuadas. Los niños de estas familias están rodeados por ambientes insalubres y míseros donde desarrollan sus principales actividades: sus juegos y el trabajo, aporte necesario a la subsistencia de ellos y del grupo familiar al que pertenecen.

5:04 – 5:21 / child
—Que alguna gente que no factura viene aquí para venderlo. La gente [...] venderlo. Nosotros no porque [...] la leña. Cuando no está el trabajo bueno hay que venir [...] aquí no más, cuando no se puede comprar alimento.

5:22 – 5:30 / narrator
Estos niños que soportan todo el peso de una sociedad adversa sufren el mayor golpe en la deficiencia alimenticia

5:31 – 6:05 / woman
—Bueno, darles una buena alimentación en primer lugar: darles su leche, el desayuno a las 11, si es posible a la noche, pero hasta aquí no es posible. Tengo que darles a media de mi fuerza nada más. A veces incluso no hay, entonces a mí me tienen que pasar así, no más, [...] casos se le da lo que hay, ahí sea una taza de té con un pan nada más. Y así pasan. Y a la guagua le aseguro la leche que me le dan [...] Porque para darle a los más grandes tampoco no me alcanza.

6:10 – 6:44 / woman
—Por ejemplo, a la chica que tengo enferma darle un [...]. [...] de chica la crié con pecho también. Y después ya una vez que ya le quité el pecho, ahí ya empezamos a... a disminuir de la plata, así que ya no había como darle su alimento como debe... debe de comer un niño, ya... ya no fui teniendo cómo alimentarlos bien. Imagínese qué estoy criando para más tarde. Una mujer endeble que a cualquier nada queda descompuesta.

6:50 – 7:05 / narrator
Las madres acuden a hospitales y policlínicos con los niños enfermos de las más variadas dolencias. Pero la causa de algunas y la gravedad de todas tienen sello común: la desnutrición.

7:09 – 7:13 / narrator
Y la desnutrición llega también con su propia cara.

8:26 – 8:50 / woman
—A mí me decían si yo deseaba darles más leche a los niños. Claro, pero yo tengo que darle [...] que me dan al niño más chico. Preferirlo a él nada más. Y así es la situación de nosotros. Imagínese si nos enferma un niño hay que llevarlo a la pota, hay que pagar 15000 pesos, la pura consulta. Y si no hay para remedio... Y que ahora los pobres tenemos que dejar que se mueran los niños nomás el momento en que se [...] enferman porque no tenemos.

8:51 – 9:25 / narrator
¿Cuántos niños no pueden llegar a los hospitales? ¿Cuántos de los que llegan sanan y cuántos mueren? En Chile, según el Servicio Nacional de Salud, los niños de menos de un año que murieron en 1968 fueron 22807, es decir, 1900 cada mes. Todos los días mueren 63 niños, 2 cada hora, 1 cada 30 minutos.

10:28 – 11: 03 / narrator
¿Cuántos se salvan de esta masacre? ¿Cuántos continúan viviendo? ¿Cuántos apenas vegetando? Son cifras, cifras que componen nuestra población infantil, los futuros hombres de Chile, marcados por la gran característica que los hace reconocerse. El haber tenido hambre, el tener hambre, es un factor común en nuestro pueblo. Aferrados a un pedazo de pan como tabla de salvación subsisten y esquivan el diezmo de la muerte prematura.

11:06 – 11:50 / narrator
Pero estos sobrevivientes comedores de pan, ¿a dónde irán? Tal vez, más al borde de enfermedades cuya única medicina es comer. Tendrán que ser padres de hijos míseros como ellos. Verán crecer y morir a sus hijos tal como lo hicieron sus padres. Sí, son niños, futuros hombres, con esperanzas y capacidades insospechadas, con un papel que cumplir frente al mundo. Pero ¿podrán entregar sus cualidades manifiestas o potenciales? ¿O el sistema en el que viven se encargará de irlos limitando por la cesantía, la desnutrición y la miseria?

11:58 – 12:08 / narrator
Nuestros niños viven en el atraso. Viven y juegan en la basura. Viven, juegan y vegetan en la miseria.

Your turn, Peaceful.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

I'm on it. I can make out about half of what's missing. I've done half of it, I'm taking a break and then I'll finish it off.

[joachimt]

I'll do the timings this evening.