Amos Vogel's film as a subversive art list

[joachimt]

I'll do the timings this evening.

EDIT: ...some evening this week. I'll wait for Peaceful's translation, so I can put that in the srt directly.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

I'll do the timings this evening.

EDIT: ...some evening this week. I'll wait for Peaceful's translation, so I can put that in the srt directly.

OK, I'll split up the timings a bit more so you can better match things up.

[joachimt]

I'll do the timings this evening.

EDIT: ...some evening this week. I'll wait for Peaceful's translation, so I can put that in the srt directly.

OK, I'll split up the timings a bit more so you can better match things up.

Are you nearly finished?

[PeacefulAnarchy]

EDIT: ...some evening this week. I'll wait for Peaceful's translation, so I can put that in the srt directly.

OK, I'll split up the timings a bit more so you can better match things up.

Are you nearly finished?

I had a really busy week, but I'll be done today.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

They need some cleaning up, translating bad grammar on top of hard to understand voices is a pain, but here you go.

I'll give them another pass and hopefully fill in the missing words after you add the timings.

Spoiler: click to toggle

1:30 – 1:37 / narrator
The children in Chile live in a milieu with all the limitations of an underdeveloped society.

1:39 – 1:44 / narrator
One of these limitations, perhaps the most severe, is malnutrition.

145-155
And this problem reaches its heights amongst the working and rural sectors. That is, the vast majority of Chileans.

1:56 – 157 / woman
Well, now I'm making [guarapa].

158-206
Yesterday I made some rice, just plain, and sometimes I make pasta and I throw in one of those pills they sell in the shop,

206-212
because if I don't have the money I can't make good food. Because I want to do better, but I can't.

212-216
Because my money isn't enough. With 3000 pesos I can't do a thing.

216-222
One thing: Ever since I go to the shop sometimes I'm left with debt because it's not enough, cause one thing I buy and then others I can't.

2:25 – 2:27 / woman
Because my husband is a painter.

2:28-2:34
Sometimes he goes 7 months, 6 months, that he doesn't have a job.

234-241
And so, we have our kids who, some days they have something to eat and others they don't.

242-245
And they go to school with a just a cup of tea in the afternoon.

246-255
I sometimes receive some washing from..., just a few things, and with that more or less we get along.

2:56 – 3:02 / narrator
The rooms where these families live also bear the mark of underdevelopment.

3:03 – 3:10 / man
Then, with the smarts one has, doing here or there a small job, it doesn't get you anywhere. [...].

311-322
And me here since age 12, working, doing odd jobs. And I have the mural as well. Slowly. And so, doing it bit by bit.

3:24 – 3:33 / woman
Everything you see, it's all occupied, it's all gone, the kids' room.

333-340
I have to put all in a single room, in one room I have to sleep with all the kids because it's all dirt.

3:42 – 351 / woman
The disease that comes from the bathrooms, because here there are no bathrooms, and I think that's the most disgusting for the kids.

351-405
For example, I have all my kids in a part where there's no... isn't any... sewer. There's no bathroom, they have a latrine, that's it.

406-412
And so, from there, from that hole, there come a lot of, a lot of microbes.

412-417
They float. So that already, the kids breathe it in.

418-423
And so that goes a long way against their health, a long way.

423-433
And so, the least that a child needs to be well raised, I consider to be cleanliness and nutrition.

4:35 – 441 / narrator
These families live beaten by unemployment, lack of education, malnutrition.

442-444
With inadequate housing.

445-454
The children of these families are surrounded by unhealthy and miserable environments, wherein occur their principal activities:

455-503
their games, and work, basic necessities for their subsistence and the family group to which they belong.

5:04 – 5:10 / child
People without a job come here to sell. People who have trash at home come here to sell it.

511-521
Not us because we come here for firewood. When there's no good work we have to come here, when we can't buy food.

5:22 – 5:30 / narrator
These kids who bear the weight of an adverse society, suffer the largest blow in nutritional deficiency.

5:31 – 541 / woman
Well, give them healthy meals in the first place: give them their milk, breakfast at 11. If it's possible at night, but til now it's not possible.

541-546
I have to give them from the strength I muster, that's it.

546-548
Sometimes there isn't even that.

549-555
Then they have to live with just that, no more. In those cases you give them what there is. A cup of tea with some bread, no more.

557-605
And so they go. And the baby I give the milk she gets from [...] Because for the older ones I don't have enough

6:10 – 6:14 / woman
For example, giving my sick daughter. I breastfed her as a baby as well.

615-626
And then, once she stopped breastfeeding, we started to ... to lose money, so we no longer had enough to feed her properly...

626-634
properly for a child, I ... I no longer had how to feed them well.

635-643
Imagine what I'm raising for later. A weak woman who will get sick at the slightest.

6:50 – 655 / narrator
Mothers frequent hospitals and clinics with sick kids of very varied symptoms.

656-705
But the causes of some and the seriousness of all have a common thread: malnutrition

7:09 – 7:13 / narrator
And malnutrition comes as well with its own face.

8:26 – 8:33 / woman
They asked me if I wanted to mi kids more milk. Of course, but I have to give ... given for the smallest one.

833-844
Give him preference. And so is our situation. Imagine if a child gets sick, we have to take him to the hospital, pay 15000 pesos, just for the consultation. And if there's not enough for medicine...

845
And now we poor have to let our children die the moment they get sick because we don't have enough.

8:51 – 858 / narrator
Hoe many kids can't reach the hospital? How many that do get cured and how many die?

900-911
In Chile, according to the National Health Service, the number of children under 1 year of age who died in 1968 was 22807.

911-924
That is 1900 each month. Every day die 63, 2 each hour, 1 every 30 minutes.

10:28 – 1036 / narrator
How many are saved from this massacre? How many continue living? How many barely surviving?

1037-1045
They are numbers, numbers that make up our infant population, the future men of Chile, marked by the big characteristic that makes them recognize themselves.

1048-1103
Having lived hunger, still living in hunger, is a common factor in our people. Holding tightly to a piece of bread like the salvation, they subsist and avoid the tithe to prematire death.

11:06 – 11:10 / narrator
But these survivors, eaters of bread, where will they go?

1110-1115
Perhaps, beyond the edge of diseases whose only medicine is eating.

1116-1125
They'll be parents of miserable children like them. Watch grow and die their children as did their parents.

1126-1135
Yes, they are children, future men, with hopes and abilities unknown, with a role to play in the world.

1137-1150
But, will they deliver their demonstrated and potential abilities? Or will the system in which they live take care of limiting them through unemployment, malnutrition, and misery?

11:58 – 12:08 / narrator
Our children live in backwardness. They live and play in garbage. Live, play and grow in misery.

[joachimt]

They need some cleaning up, translating bad grammar on top of hard to understand voices is a pain, but here you go.

I'll give them another pass and hopefully fill in the missing words after you add the timings.

Spoiler: click to toggle

1:30 – 1:37 / narrator
The children in Chile live in a milieu with all the limitations of an underdeveloped society.

1:39 – 1:44 / narrator
One of these limitations, perhaps the most severe, is malnutrition.

145-155
And this problem reaches its heights amongst the working and rural sectors. That is, the vast majority of Chileans.

1:56 – 157 / woman
Well, now I'm making [guarapa].

158-206
Yesterday I made some rice, just plain, and sometimes I make pasta and I throw in one of those pills they sell in the shop,

206-212
because if I don't have the money I can't make good food. Because I want to do better, but I can't.

212-216
Because my money isn't enough. With 3000 pesos I can't do a thing.

216-222
One thing: Ever since I go to the shop sometimes I'm left with debt because it's not enough, cause one thing I buy and then others I can't.

2:25 – 2:27 / woman
Because my husband is a painter.

2:28-2:34
Sometimes he goes 7 months, 6 months, that he doesn't have a job.

234-241
And so, we have our kids who, some days they have something to eat and others they don't.

242-245
And they go to school with a just a cup of tea in the afternoon.

246-255
I sometimes receive some washing from..., just a few things, and with that more or less we get along.

2:56 – 3:02 / narrator
The rooms where these families live also bear the mark of underdevelopment.

3:03 – 3:10 / man
Then, with the smarts one has, doing here or there a small job, it doesn't get you anywhere. [...].

311-322
And me here since age 12, working, doing odd jobs. And I have the mural as well. Slowly. And so, doing it bit by bit.

3:24 – 3:33 / woman
Everything you see, it's all occupied, it's all gone, the kids' room.

333-340
I have to put all in a single room, in one room I have to sleep with all the kids because it's all dirt.

3:42 – 351 / woman
The disease that comes from the bathrooms, because here there are no bathrooms, and I think that's the most disgusting for the kids.

351-405
For example, I have all my kids in a part where there's no... isn't any... sewer. There's no bathroom, they have a latrine, that's it.

406-412
And so, from there, from that hole, there come a lot of, a lot of microbes.

412-417
They float. So that already, the kids breathe it in.

418-423
And so that goes a long way against their health, a long way.

423-433
And so, the least that a child needs to be well raised, I consider to be cleanliness and nutrition.

4:35 – 441 / narrator
These families live beaten by unemployment, lack of education, malnutrition.

442-444
With inadequate housing.

445-454
The children of these families are surrounded by unhealthy and miserable environments, wherein occur their principal activities:

455-503
their games, and work, basic necessities for their subsistence and the family group to which they belong.

5:04 – 5:10 / child
People without a job come here to sell. People who have trash at home come here to sell it.

511-521
Not us because we come here for firewood. When there's no good work we have to come here, when we can't buy food.

5:22 – 5:30 / narrator
These kids who bear the weight of an adverse society, suffer the largest blow in nutritional deficiency.

5:31 – 541 / woman
Well, give them healthy meals in the first place: give them their milk, breakfast at 11. If it's possible at night, but til now it's not possible.

541-546
I have to give them from the strength I muster, that's it.

546-548
Sometimes there isn't even that.

549-555
Then they have to live with just that, no more. In those cases you give them what there is. A cup of tea with some bread, no more.

557-605
And so they go. And the baby I give the milk she gets from [...] Because for the older ones I don't have enough

6:10 – 6:14 / woman
For example, giving my sick daughter. I breastfed her as a baby as well.

615-626
And then, once she stopped breastfeeding, we started to ... to lose money, so we no longer had enough to feed her properly...

626-634
properly for a child, I ... I no longer had how to feed them well.

635-643
Imagine what I'm raising for later. A weak woman who will get sick at the slightest.

6:50 – 655 / narrator
Mothers frequent hospitals and clinics with sick kids of very varied symptoms.

656-705
But the causes of some and the seriousness of all have a common thread: malnutrition

7:09 – 7:13 / narrator
And malnutrition comes as well with its own face.

8:26 – 8:33 / woman
They asked me if I wanted to mi kids more milk. Of course, but I have to give ... given for the smallest one.

833-844
Give him preference. And so is our situation. Imagine if a child gets sick, we have to take him to the hospital, pay 15000 pesos, just for the consultation. And if there's not enough for medicine...

845
And now we poor have to let our children die the moment they get sick because we don't have enough.

8:51 – 858 / narrator
Hoe many kids can't reach the hospital? How many that do get cured and how many die?

900-911
In Chile, according to the National Health Service, the number of children under 1 year of age who died in 1968 was 22807.

911-924
That is 1900 each month. Every day die 63, 2 each hour, 1 every 30 minutes.

10:28 – 1036 / narrator
How many are saved from this massacre? How many continue living? How many barely surviving?

1037-1045
They are numbers, numbers that make up our infant population, the future men of Chile, marked by the big characteristic that makes them recognize themselves.

1048-1103
Having lived hunger, still living in hunger, is a common factor in our people. Holding tightly to a piece of bread like the salvation, they subsist and avoid the tithe to prematire death.

11:06 – 11:10 / narrator
But these survivors, eaters of bread, where will they go?

1110-1115
Perhaps, beyond the edge of diseases whose only medicine is eating.

1116-1125
They'll be parents of miserable children like them. Watch grow and die their children as did their parents.

1126-1135
Yes, they are children, future men, with hopes and abilities unknown, with a role to play in the world.

1137-1150
But, will they deliver their demonstrated and potential abilities? Or will the system in which they live take care of limiting them through unemployment, malnutrition, and misery?

11:58 – 12:08 / narrator
Our children live in backwardness. They live and play in garbage. Live, play and grow in misery.

Thanks! I'll work on it this evening or tomorrow.

[joachimt]

Found some time earlier. Here are the subs. Peaceful, do want to make some last corrections? I might upload this on KG as well.

Attachments:

• Desnutrici_n_infantil__1969_.srt (9.31 KB)

[sortile9io]

Found some time earlier. Here are the subs. Peaceful, do want to make some last corrections? I might upload this on KG as well.

Hey, they look pretty good. Just a few minor edits to make:
1. We have to do something with "[guarapa]" at 1:55. I found a dish called guarapo in Argentina, Chile and nearby countries. So maybe we should use that instead.
2. My English is rather limited but I'd say that "pill" at 2:04 sounds like she's buying medicine rather than food. Shouldn't it be "stock cube"?
3. There is a [...] at 3:08 left to remove or replace with something.
4. I think the painter says he's been working for 12 years around that place not that he started working at 12.
5. Another [...] to be removed/replaced at 5:59.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

2. My English is rather limited but I'd say that "pill" at 2:04 sounds like she's buying medicine rather than food. Shouldn't it be "stock cube"?

That would make sense, I've never heard that called pastilla.

4. I think the painter says he's been working for 12 years around that place not that he started working at 12.

I kept going back and forth on this. You wrote it as " Yo llevo aquí para los doce años trabajando." I heard it as "Y yo aquí, a los doce años trabajando." But now I'm not so sure. I think you're right.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Found some time earlier. Here are the subs. Peaceful, do want to make some last corrections? I might upload this on KG as well.

Sure I'll fix it up. Give me a bit.
You have the original mp4 from the Chilean site, yeah? The one from youtube is compressed.

[sortile9io]

Now that you mention the Chilean site, should we add a few more subs for the opening credits (0:20-0:34 "Con el apoyo de", 1:07-1:13 "Desnutrición infantil" and crew at 1:14-1:22)? There is also an intriguing "basuras" on a cemetery wall at 9:29.

[joachimt]

Found some time earlier. Here are the subs. Peaceful, do want to make some last corrections? I might upload this on KG as well.

Sure I'll fix it up. Give me a bit.
You have the original mp4 from the Chilean site, yeah? The one from youtube is compressed.

Great, you make the last corrections. If you want to upload it on KG yourself, go ahead. I'm happy to do it, if you're not interested.

How do I get the original file from the site? I just downloaded your youtube-upload.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

You have to register an account. It was pretty painless, but I uploaded it here for you:
http://we.tl/XrmWaMiYYW You might need to deinterlace it. Not sure how easy that would be or if its possible, depending on how it's encoded.

I'll do the subs in a bit, I'll also put up sortile9io's Spanish subs while I'm at it. You can do the upload

Edit: Almost done. Fixed up a few things. Rewrote the messy bit in the 3:16-340 section. Still a few words I'm not clear on but it should be good enough.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Done. Attached both Spanish subs and English subs. Also added the subs to the youtube video For those who don't want to download stuff.

Thanks sortile9io and joachim.

Attachments:

• desnutricion.es.srt (9.74 KB)
• desnutricion.en.srt (9.49 KB)

[joachimt]

And thank you too.

[sortile9io]

Yep, a pleasure, thanks to all.

[Blupain]

Three Lives

http://we.tl/oNqVBeEYTZ

[monty]

Three Lives

http://we.tl/oNqVBeEYTZ

So what abomination this time from UncleAmos? Dunno if I can stomach more of his bizarre film choices. Anyway, I'm sure Art and joachim will watch and appreciate this. Cheers.

[funkybusiness]

Photographed by an all-female crew and directed by the author of Sexual Politics, these are autobiographical interiews with three very different women who talk frankly about their lives, conflicts, and contrasting life styles. A proud and uncompromising film.
- Amos Vogel, Film as a Subversive Art

Doesn't sound so bad, monty.

[epp]

It's not all filth.

[joachimt]

Three Lives

http://we.tl/oNqVBeEYTZ

So what abomination this time from UncleAmos? Dunno if I can stomach more of his bizarre film choices. Anyway, I'm sure Art and joachim will watch and appreciate this. Cheers.

Why me? I only watch the shorts on this list.

[Cippenham]

Three Lives

http://we.tl/oNqVBeEYTZ

So what abomination this time from UncleAmos? Dunno if I can stomach more of his bizarre film choices. Anyway, I'm sure Art and joachim will watch and appreciate this. Cheers.

I thought monty was the chief advocate and supporter of the Vogel list, a real expert who could write a book on the subject..

[monty]

Three Lives

http://we.tl/oNqVBeEYTZ

So what abomination this time from UncleAmos? Dunno if I can stomach more of his bizarre film choices. Anyway, I'm sure Art and joachim will watch and appreciate this. Cheers.

I thought monty was the chief advocate and supporter of the Vogel list, a real expert who could write a book on the subject..

You got that one wrong. Look up kas instead, he's the one who actually pushed for this list getting official status. With that in mind, it's quite shocking how little he's managed to watch from it. Guess Uncle Amos' countless bestiality flicks got to him in the end...

[Cippenham]

So what abomination this time from UncleAmos? Dunno if I can stomach more of his bizarre film choices. Anyway, I'm sure Art and joachim will watch and appreciate this. Cheers.

I thought monty was the chief advocate and supporter of the Vogel list, a real expert who could write a book on the subject..

You got that one wrong. Look up kas instead, he's the one who actually pushed for this list getting official status. With that in mind, it's quite shocking how little he's managed to watch from it. Guess Uncle Amos' countless bestiality flicks got to him in the end...

ok, well I think Uncle Vogel is mainly responsible for spooking monty enough to make him go to the dark side, it is the fear of watching more of this s..., rubbish, that drove him over the edge..

[monty]

I thought monty was the chief advocate and supporter of the Vogel list, a real expert who could write a book on the subject..

You got that one wrong. Look up kas instead, he's the one who actually pushed for this list getting official status. With that in mind, it's quite shocking how little he's managed to watch from it. Guess Uncle Amos' countless bestiality flicks got to him in the end...

ok, well I think Uncle Vogel is mainly responsible for spooking monty enough to make him go to the dark side, it is the fear of watching more of this s..., rubbish, that drove him over the edge..

Having to endure - on a regular basis - the king of smut's handpicked sick shit flicks for a measly official check just to get ahead in the iCM rankings
is my vision of how hell operates.

[joachimt]

joachimt: 360/596
monty: 419/596
kasparius: 401/596
ArthurYanthar: 181/596

I don't understand why monty especially mentioned Arthur and me. He still outranks the most of of us. If he wasn't in the dark he would rank 6th in the Vogel-ranking.

So stop wining, monty, and go watch Blupain's gift. ;)

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Only 28 to go for silver monty! You can do it.

[bal3x]

You got that one wrong. Look up kas instead, he's the one who actually pushed for this list getting official status. With that in mind, it's quite shocking how little he's managed to watch from it. Guess Uncle Amos' countless bestiality flicks got to him in the end...

ok, well I think Uncle Vogel is mainly responsible for spooking monty enough to make him go to the dark side, it is the fear of watching more of this s..., rubbish, that drove him over the edge..

Having to endure - on a regular basis - the king of smut's handpicked sick shit flicks for a measly official check just to get ahead in the iCM rankings
is my vision of how hell operates.

As someone who has worked on this list (I'm on 409/596) I must say that despite some of the filth this is a rather interesting list. In fact I would say the "shit flicks" you're referring to really takes up a small portion of the entire list so I believe it's unfair to refer to this entire list as filth.

[monty]

ok, well I think Uncle Vogel is mainly responsible for spooking monty enough to make him go to the dark side, it is the fear of watching more of this s..., rubbish, that drove him over the edge..

Having to endure - on a regular basis - the king of smut's handpicked sick shit flicks for a measly official check just to get ahead in the iCM rankings
is my vision of how hell operates.

As someone who has worked on this list (I'm on 409/596) I must say that despite some of the filth this is a rather interesting list. In fact I would say the "shit flicks" you're referring to really takes up a small portion of the entire list so I believe it's unfair to refer to this entire list as filth.

Well, there is no other official list that has such a high proportion of demented sick shit as this one. And the the thing is, once you get to Amos' twisted surprises, it scars you for life. It's like he lulls you into believing his list isn't all that bad, and then boom, off he goes into the realm of insane-stuff-you-wish-you'd never-seen, like bestiality porn.

[cinephage]

Well, according to the list introduction, Amos's book details the

accelerating worldwide trend toward a more liberated cinema, in which subjects and forms hitherto considered unthinkable or forbidden are boldly explored.

With such an introduction, shouldn't you expect it to include unthinkable or forbidden images ?? That's as close to "sick shit" as you can get, I would say...

[monty]

Well, according to the list introduction, Amos's book details the

accelerating worldwide trend toward a more liberated cinema, in which subjects and forms hitherto considered unthinkable or forbidden are boldly explored.

With such an introduction, shouldn't you expect it to include unthinkable or forbidden images ?? That's as close to "sick shit" as you can get, I would say...

I never expected a list that included bestiality to be made official.

[cinephage]

That's the risk of exploration, I guess...
But did you really do it to get official checks, or out of simple curiosity ?? There are many safer lists you could have explored.

[monty]

Yeah, I know - now. Back then I wasn't so aware of the abyss which constitutes UncleAmos' real taste in film.

[Knaldskalle]

Well, there is no other official list that has such a high proportion of demented sick shit as this one. And the the thing is, once you get to Amos' twisted surprises, it scars you for life. It's like he lulls you into believing his list isn't all that bad, and then boom, off he goes into the realm of insane-stuff-you-wish-you'd never-seen, like bestiality porn.

I haven't explore this list at all, but the way you keep talking about it, I'm getting curious...

[Gershwin]

Yellow or blue?

[Knaldskalle]

Yellow or blue?

Either.

[Blupain]

Wow - didn't realize my posting a movie would generate so much discussion on the quality of this list. Although, to be fair to Monty, I was the one who posted the movie with bestiality in it. So I can see why he would assume this movie would have some degenerate behavior associated with it.

[WalterNeff]

I'm 346/596, and have a close affinity for Uncle Amos

[monty]

I'm 346/596, and have a close affinity for Uncle Amos

Nice pic, neffie!
Still, I'd be curious to know if your affinity for UncleAmos will be the same once you've seen his bestiality entries/favs.

[serri]

anyone have the writeup from vogel about the bestiality one?