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Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 16th, 2021, 10:43 pm
by kongs_speech

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 16th, 2021, 11:07 pm
by Torgo
Just to be sure - the correct order by spine numbers would be Sierra - Shrinking - Gems - Devi
:)

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 16th, 2021, 11:10 pm
by kongs_speech
Torgo wrote: July 16th, 2021, 11:07 pm Just to be sure - the correct order by spine numbers would be Sierra - Shrinking - Gems - Devi
:)
Oh yeah, I didn't think to put them in spine order. Just thirsty for new Criterion checks. :wub:

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 12:08 am
by PeacefulAnarchy
I'll update it in a second, I saw the post late yesterday and just assumed someone else had gotten to it.

Done

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 10:26 am
by Harco
Next ATWWBO update:

IN: Black Widow
OUT: No Country for Old Men

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 11:45 am
by kongs_speech
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: July 17th, 2021, 12:08 am I'll update it in a second, I saw the post late yesterday and just assumed someone else had gotten to it.

Done
:cheers:

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 6:42 pm
by Traveller
Palme d’Or Winner:
Titane (2021)

Grand Prix Winner:
A Hero (2021)
Hytti nro 6 (2021)

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 8:16 pm
by xianjiro
Harco wrote: July 17th, 2021, 10:26 am Next ATWWBO update:

IN: Black Widow
OUT: No Country for Old Men
in other words: Black Widow Kill Old Men

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 20th, 2021, 10:56 pm
by Torgo
the following movie entries disappeared:
Les misérables (1934) at #4 in IMDb's 1930s Top 50


Huh?, how could that happen, not because too many people unchecked and it missed the threshold? No, because someone changed it to a TV-series. No wonder at almost 5 hours length, one might think. But was it really a TV-series in the 1930s? .. Yeah, I don't think so. The German Wikipedia claims the film was released in two parts. The English Wikipedia, on the other hand, speaks of "three films that premiered over a period of three weeks". :wacko: (This is what is stated in the IMDb Trivia, too.)

Under these circumstances, I expect it to return to the IMDb 1930s charts one day ..

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 8:29 am
by xianjiro
Why of course they produced a miniseries (a term first coined in the 70s) for the 12 people who had TVs in the mid 30s. I mean the French are very much en avant-garde when it comes to art you know.

Well, at least we know who isn't policing changes very seriously any longer.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 10:52 am
by dirty_score
To stop this sort of commotion, I politely suggest to replace those decade lists with the Taschen ones. I know there are people in here who like those lists but they aren't really imdb lists anymore, they're Peaceful Anarchy personal lists mixed with some ICM formula. And I don't know how that works but it could alleviate the website of updating them twice every week and run much smoother.

IMDb still keeps genre lists "Top Rated English Movies by Genre" which somehow removes a lot of those mafia movies, except indian ones, which in turn becomes user friendly since we have these as list starters for beginners. Anyways, you guys decide.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 11:07 am
by mightysparks
Another option is to switch to decade lists from Letterboxd, though not as easy because they don’t seem to export IMDb urls. I quite like the IMDb lists since they update, even if they don’t ‘exist’ anymore and are strange, so I’d prefer another dynamic list if they were to be replaced.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm
by beavis
This is a recurring topic, also amongst the mods, but with very little movement. There is an aparant reluctance to do away with the Imdb connection entirely, but the option to just have aditional "starter lists" for decades and genre's alongside Imdb has also been discussed and virtually agreed on. Taschen has always been a serious option. Letterboxd might do... even though there is a chance of that site eventually becoming more Imdb like (and sold to a more commercial party). There has also been talks of decade lists based on boxoffice... many things, I'm not a list-mod anymore, so I can only hope, for two things: more and structured action around adoptions, and at some point letting go of the Imdb starter lists in favor of another source...

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 1:26 pm
by kongs_speech
I'd just ditch everything IMDb except for the top 250. The only thing is, we'd definitely need a replacement for the 1910s, which are very poorly represented outside of that list.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 1:34 pm
by Torgo
That's not the can of worms I wanted to open .. :pinch: :D

re: 1910s: Ironically, that's the single IMDb list to be the heaviest affected by naughty voting behavior and 1/10 attacks and all that. But I'm NOT THAT UNHAPPY with the rest of the decade lists, for instance the 1920s to 1980s. Will you people let me get my platinums on those before you tear everything apart, Jesus Christ. :folded: :P

dirty_score wrote: July 21st, 2021, 10:52 am they aren't really imdb lists anymore, they're Peaceful Anarchy personal lists mixed with some ICM formula.
Nah come on. That's not fair judgement. ;)

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 2:02 pm
by WalterNeff
Do you really need dynamic lists for any decade other than the most current one? OK, maybe the 2000s to date. But anything earlier than that, what's the purpose in it being dynamic? Nothing new is going to be discovered.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 2:04 pm
by beavis
tastes change and films from the past get (re)discovered all the time

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 2:29 pm
by Torgo
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 2:04 pm tastes change and films from the past get (re)discovered all the time
Oh yes they do ..
According to a ICM comment, Tom Jones started at a 7.0 a decade ago and dropped to 6.5; that's one of the heaviest drops for a (popular/known enough) old film I've encountered. Can't wait to see it steer towards 6.0 during the 2020s. :shifty:

.. for positive examples though, think of Cassavetes' Shadows (1958) or The Cranes Are Flying (1957), The Human Condition trilogy and others which get more available or restorated in 2K, 4K and all that; it might help their status and ratings.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:17 pm
by joachimt
Maybe it's time for iCM to do a complete revival of the official lists. Let's weigh every list against the current adoption preferences, ditch everything that doesn't fit and adopt a lot of others to fill some gaps, but don't expect everything to be filled.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:23 pm
by dirty_score
kongs_speech wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:26 pm The only thing is, we'd definitely need a replacement for the 1910s, which are very poorly represented outside of that list.
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:34 pm
re: 1910s: Ironically, that's the single IMDb list to be the heaviest affected by naughty voting behavior and 1/10 attacks and all that.
A partial solution that could be considered would be Paste's list. ICM doesn't have an introductory list to the silent period for beginners. Both official silent lists are top300 and one of them is based on... votes from anyone who wishes to contribute.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm
by beavis
joachimt wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:17 pm Maybe it's time for iCM to do a complete revival of the official lists. Let's weigh every list against the current adoption preferences, ditch everything that doesn't fit and adopt a lot of others to fill some gaps, but don't expect everything to be filled.
Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:30 pm
by WalterNeff
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 2:04 pm tastes change and films from the past get (re)discovered all the time
Yes, but are the IMDb lists the best lists to rediscover things?

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:30 pm
by WalterNeff
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm
joachimt wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:17 pm Maybe it's time for iCM to do a complete revival of the official lists. Let's weigh every list against the current adoption preferences, ditch everything that doesn't fit and adopt a lot of others to fill some gaps, but don't expect everything to be filled.
Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!
I can think of one gap that needs to be filled...

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:32 pm
by PeacefulAnarchy
dirty_score wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:23 pm
kongs_speech wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:26 pm The only thing is, we'd definitely need a replacement for the 1910s, which are very poorly represented outside of that list.
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:34 pm
re: 1910s: Ironically, that's the single IMDb list to be the heaviest affected by naughty voting behavior and 1/10 attacks and all that.
A partial solution that could be considered would be Paste's list.
How is a list of 100 silent films of which only 14 are from the 1910s, of which only 7 are feature length, a solution to a top 50 feature films of the 1910s?

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 4:07 pm
by WalterNeff
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:32 pm
dirty_score wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:23 pm
kongs_speech wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:26 pm The only thing is, we'd definitely need a replacement for the 1910s, which are very poorly represented outside of that list.
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:34 pm
re: 1910s: Ironically, that's the single IMDb list to be the heaviest affected by naughty voting behavior and 1/10 attacks and all that.
A partial solution that could be considered would be Paste's list.
How is a list of 100 silent films of which only 14 are from the 1910s, of which only 7 are feature length, a solution to a top 50 feature films of the 1910s?
He did say partial solution. Looking at the IMDb list, all but 4 movies are on multiple lists, which reminds me of a solution I proposed probably 50 years ago. Just take the main large lists, sort by year, and use the consensus of those lists for decade lists.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 4:53 pm
by erde
I remember that there was also talk about ICM genre and decade lists (most favorite) some time ago - could those replace the IMDb lists? It sounds like an interesting idea to me.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 12:45 am
by kongs_speech
erde wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:53 pm I remember that there was also talk about ICM genre and decade lists (most favorite) some time ago - could those replace the IMDb lists? It sounds like an interesting idea to me.
I could support that. Lists chosen by actual film fans are more valuable than the trolling and mafias of IMDb.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 1:07 am
by PeacefulAnarchy
erde wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:53 pm I remember that there was also talk about ICM genre and decade lists (most favorite) some time ago - could those replace the IMDb lists? It sounds like an interesting idea to me.
It's an idea that hangs around, and I don't think anyone particularly opposes it, but there's not much impetus to make it happen.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 1:16 am
by Torgo
IMDb lists are the origin of ICM as a whole, don't you forget that. Even today, they amount for almost a 1/6th of all our lists. People maybe worked for years on those lists. (Well, I did :P )
Better think twice about that. To this day, I haven't seen what the purposed alternative of ICM decade lists (probably based on favs with a certain threshold) would look like. Could finally someone do that so we know what we're talking about. :folded: mjf, couldn't yo Who can do that?
Just asking for decade lists for now, because eventually, auto-generated ICM genre lists would be based on the IMDb-decided genres which are disputed and despised here so much ..

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 5:10 am
by mjf314
Torgo wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 1:16 am IMDb lists are the origin of ICM as a whole, don't you forget that. Even today, they amount for almost a 1/6th of all our lists. People maybe worked for years on those lists. (Well, I did :P )
Better think twice about that. To this day, I haven't seen what the purposed alternative of ICM decade lists (probably based on favs with a certain threshold) would look like. Could finally someone do that so we know what we're talking about. :folded: mjf, couldn't yo Who can do that?
Just asking for decade lists for now, because eventually, auto-generated ICM genre lists would be based on the IMDb-decided genres which are disputed and despised here so much ..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hklZz1 ... kmXDA/view

I made this spreadsheet in Feb 2020. You can filter by decade. It includes 2 versions of the formula, "favs^1.3/(checks+50)" (more mainstream) and "favs^1.25/(checks+50)" (more obscure).

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 5:38 am
by Onderhond
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 1:07 am
erde wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:53 pm I remember that there was also talk about ICM genre and decade lists (most favorite) some time ago - could those replace the IMDb lists? It sounds like an interesting idea to me.
It's an idea that hangs around, and I don't think anyone particularly opposes it, but there's not much impetus to make it happen.
I oppose it (and did so before I think). There's already too much navel gazing going on.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 6:47 am
by erde
Thanks, mjf! I think that these lists are very interesting and nice! I would certainly put these on my watchlist if someone made them into ICM lists and updated them from time to time (like once per year, not all the time, of course) - official or not! :wub: I would also love to see similar lists with ICM data and IMDb genres!

To demonstrate, here are the ICM top 50 lists for 2010:

More mainstream (favs.^1.3):
Spoiler
1. Inception
2. Whiplash
3. Jagten
4. Drive
5. Intouchables
6. Her
7. The Grand Budapest Hotel
8. Django Unchained
9. Moonrise Kingdom
10. Jodaeiye Nader az Simin
11. Mad Max: Fury Road
12. Interstellar
13. Relatos salvajes
14. Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
15. Incendies
16. What We Do in the Shadows
17. Arrival
18. Ah-ga-ssi
19. Black Swan
20. Short Term 12
21. Midnight in Paris
22. The Perks of Being a Wallflower
23. Kimi no na wa.
24. Mommy
25. La grande bellezza
26. Boyhood
27. Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
28. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
29. Shutter Island
30. La vie d'Adèle
31. Only Lovers Left Alive
32. Blade Runner 2049
33. Ex Machina
34. Gone Girl
35. Nightcrawler
36. Over the Garden Wall
37. The Salt of the Earth
38. It's Such a Beautiful Day
39. La La Land
40. Before Midnight
41. La piel que habito
42. Kokuhaku
43. Medianeras
44. Hunt for the Wilderpeople
45. How to Train Your Dragon
46. Melancholia
47. Inside Out
48. Song of the Sea
49. Holy Motors
50. The King's Speech
More obscure (favs.^1.25) [although I don't think this is very obscure yet]:
Spoiler
1. Inception
2. Whiplash
3. Jagten
4. Intouchables
5. Drive
6. Jodaeiye Nader az Simin
7. Her
8. The Grand Budapest Hotel
9. Moonrise Kingdom
10. Django Unchained
11. Mad Max: Fury Road
12. Relatos salvajes
13. Interstellar
14. Incendies
15. What We Do in the Shadows
16. Ah-ga-ssi
17. Short Term 12
18. Arrival
19. Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
20. Mommy
21. Kimi no na wa.
22. La grande bellezza
23. Over the Garden Wall
24. Midnight in Paris
25. The Salt of the Earth
26. The Perks of Being a Wallflower
27. Black Swan
28. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
29. Only Lovers Left Alive
30. It's Such a Beautiful Day
31. La vie d'Adèle
32. Boyhood
33. Medianeras
34. Blade Runner 2049
35. Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
36. Kokuhaku
37. Ex Machina
38. Nightcrawler
39. La La Land
40. Before Midnight
41. Gone Girl
42. Hunt for the Wilderpeople
43. La piel que habito
44. Song of the Sea
45. Shutter Island
46. A torinói ló
47. Holy Motors
48. Oslo, 31. august
49. Victoria
50. Kis Uykusu

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 11:28 am
by Lammetje
WalterNeff wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:30 pm
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm
joachimt wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:17 pm Maybe it's time for iCM to do a complete revival of the official lists. Let's weigh every list against the current adoption preferences, ditch everything that doesn't fit and adopt a lot of others to fill some gaps, but don't expect everything to be filled.
Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!
I can think of one gap that needs to be filled...
You dirty boy! tehe

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 8:51 pm
by Panunzio
dirty_score wrote: July 21st, 2021, 10:52 am To stop this sort of commotion, I politely suggest to replace those decade lists with the Taschen ones. I know there are people in here who like those lists but they aren't really imdb lists anymore, they're Peaceful Anarchy personal lists mixed with some ICM formula. And I don't know how that works but it could alleviate the website of updating them twice every week and run much smoother.

IMDb still keeps genre lists "Top Rated English Movies by Genre" which somehow removes a lot of those mafia movies, except indian ones, which in turn becomes user friendly since we have these as list starters for beginners. Anyways, you guys decide.
Taschen! Honestly, very good decade lists. Good balance of popular and art cinema, as well as a balance between English and non-English speaking. I'm perennially surprised that the Taschen decade lists haven't been made official. I don't necessarily think we should get rid of the IMDB decade lists on top of that though -- they are very flawed, but they give a decent intro for beginner cinephiles by highlighting popular films.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 9:32 pm
by PeacefulAnarchy
Panunzio wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 8:51 pm Taschen! Honestly, very good decade lists. Good balance of popular and art cinema, as well as a balance between English and non-English speaking. I'm perennially surprised that the Taschen decade lists haven't been made official. I don't necessarily think we should get rid of the IMDB decade lists on top of that though -- they are very flawed, but they give a decent intro for beginner cinephiles by highlighting popular films.
If/when Taschen lists are made official they would not be replacing the imdb lists, they cover the same subject but with a very different perspective.

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 23rd, 2021, 9:55 pm
by flavo5000
WalterNeff wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:30 pm
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm
joachimt wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:17 pm Maybe it's time for iCM to do a complete revival of the official lists. Let's weigh every list against the current adoption preferences, ditch everything that doesn't fit and adopt a lot of others to fill some gaps, but don't expect everything to be filled.
Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!
I can think of one gap that needs to be filled...
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/porn ... flavo5000/

:whistling:

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 24th, 2021, 9:59 am
by xianjiro
flavo5000 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 9:55 pm
WalterNeff wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:30 pm
beavis wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm

Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!
I can think of one gap that needs to be filled...
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/porn ... flavo5000/

:whistling:
at least they're 'noir' <_<

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 24th, 2021, 1:28 pm
by Torgo
Yeah, true noirs have to look old for me. Call me when there's a list of noir sex films shot only in black and white. :folded:

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 24th, 2021, 8:30 pm
by xianjiro
Torgo wrote: July 24th, 2021, 1:28 pm Yeah, true noirs have to look old for me. Call me when there's a list of noir sex films shot only in black and white. :folded:
... and shot in the 40s or 50s :P

Re: Official lists updates

Posted: July 26th, 2021, 11:42 am
by Torgo
BFI's 100 American Independent Films & BFI's 100 European Horror Films: both categorized under "Institute"
5x AFI Top 100 lists and BFI Top 100 British Films: all filed under "Country"
:think:

You could argue that BFI's Americindies are more about the Independent film as a genre and less about the country .. maybe. And maybe the mods feel that the AFI (or those lists) aren't that Institute-worthy, while all from the BFI are. Hm.
Good that we can settle at least two of those cases when the genre tab soon will be realized :innocent: