Official lists updates

[frbrown]

I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.

I thought the shorts list was a list of films on shorts-only lists, not just a list of the top shorts in tspdt.

I think it was always the latter, a list of top shorts on TSPDT rankings.

[Dolwphin]

Oh, is Brief Encounters now a ranked-list of the best shorts? Nice!

[PeacefulAnarchy]

I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.

I thought the shorts list was a list of films on shorts-only lists, not just a list of the top shorts in tspdt. That would explain why there are some feature-length films there.

I prefer a shorts-focused lists instead of just a shorts-filter, since so many film lists tend to ignore shorts completely.

No, both iterations of Brief Encounters (the first unpublished WIP, the second in an extra info spreadsheet) have been a shorts filter on the TSPDT. The only difference here is we're deciding what a short is whereas the other two were filtered by TSPDT.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.

Yeah, like I said, runtimes in TSPDT's spreadsheet don't always match IMDb. Also, IMDb considers 45 minute films to be features, not shorts, but the current Brief Encounters list includes 45 min films.

Yeah, I just added those for clarity, I know why it is. Most of those have imprecise runtimes anyway.

Oh, is Brief Encounters now a ranked-list of the best shorts? Nice!

It has been since 2017.

[Ebbywebby]

I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.
Here's 12 of them https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?titl ... s084423609
Plus
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097270/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070136/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0183710/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095590/

Imdb's definition is 44 or less, which accounts for some of these.

Also, when IMDb calls something a "TV movie," they won't classify it as a short.

[erde]

Now that we know the top 1517 films under 45 minutes, thanks to the wonderful starter list, do we perhaps wish Brief Encounters to be updated to top 500 or even top 1000 list? Or do the films under the top 250 have so few points in the system that they shouldn't be considered all that great? Does someone have any idea? It's tricky to consider based on the starter list alone, of course, since the points are not included in it.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

It's hard to tell, but rankings definitely lose meaning outside the top 5000. My guess is it's actually somewhere around 2500-3500 but I suppose there's also the question of what "losing meaning" means.

The Top 250 "45 minutes or less" goes to around 5100-5200 so that's already pushing what reasonable list length is. If I were choosing a list length from scratch I would probably choose a Top 100. I'm ok with a top 250 since the list has been that length and has always been eclectic and at least somewhat arbitrary, but I would not be in favour of extending it.

[erde]

Sounds sensible.

It's interesting that one has to go through more than 5000 films on the master list to gather the top 250 shorts. One begins to wonder what the Brief Encounters list would be like if it was based solely on short film lists... The result might be quite different.

[Knaldskalle]

I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what?

I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).

[max-scl]

I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what?

I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).

Yes, that's what I know about chinese too. Cantonese has 9 different tones, while Mandarin has 5 (4 plus a neutral tone). The accents in the mandarin spelling (pinyin) also indicates the tones.

[Torgo]

Again a 0 checks movie on the box office list.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/a+l ... ed+flower/

Quite the famous director though, the votes will come (ones the film hits local streaming platforms I'm guessing). Looking forward to this.

Well there's famous and there's "famous", right? The previous films have 74 and 12 checks on ICM. The bigger one indeed is quite big for a recent Chinese film and also has 3700 votes on IMDb, looks watchable enough (and has Michael Douglas!).

[Onderhond]

Well there's famous and there's "famous", right? The previous films have 74 and 12 checks on ICM. The bigger one indeed is quite big for a recent Chinese film and also has 3700 votes on IMDb, looks watchable enough (and has Michael Douglas!).

If your film's on Netflix, you're pretty famous in my book.

[Torgo]

hehe, by that definition there are a many, many famous directors. The Wandering Earth (2019) for me is a huge film (almost 27,000 votes, nearly 600 checks on ICM) and also available on Netflix, one where I'd call the director/producer "famous" automatically. I'd say Animal World is several tiers below. Ne Zha (2019) might fill the gap between those two?

[xianjiro]

I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what?

I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).

While Chinese is more complex with four intonations, Japanese has the same issue, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not found in other east Asian languages.

My favorite, though I never remember the difference is hashi - two distinct syllable ha and she - pronounced one way it means bridge, the other way is chopsticks. I invariably asked to have a bridge to eat with.

However, that said, I believe the underlying kanji (Chinese derived characters) are quite different and shouldn't actually create problems with movie title transliteration. And at least with Japanese, while there are dialects and such, generally that won't affect titles in the same way the two many Chinese variants - Cantonese and Mandarin - do. I've been surprised how many movies have titles in both languages, but I'm unclear how mutually intelligible they are in the ear. The one phrase I know in both, seems like it would be easy to understand in the other "Kung Hei Fat Choi" in Cantonese and "Gong Xi Fa Cai" in Mandarin and I bet there are many other ways to write both using Latin script.

I have had a time tracking down a few east Asian titles when working through some of these lists, but I think the most confusing have been some anime series since they have various iterations.

[funkybusiness]

hashi: accented first syllable = chopsticks (箸), accented second syllable = bridge(橋). there's also edge (端) which has no accent and each syllable after the first is slightly higher. the first word, chopsticks, has a pitch type known as atamadakagata (頭高型 head high type) and the second, for bridge, is known as odakagata (尾高型 tail high type) while edge is heiban (平板型 flat type). interesting, all three of those technical terms are heiban pitched. there's also nakadakagata (中高型) which is hard to say, but as an accent type there's no example for hashi. (there's also "beak" as an example for hashi which has two kanji 嘴 and 觜 (the 2nd being the less frequently used) but the interesting thing is that the first, which features a mouth (口) as a radical on the left, can be pronounced as hashi or kuchibashi (kuchi being mouth) but the 2nd is only pronounced as hashi. or at least, listed in dictionaries as only being read as hashi note: beak read hashi is atama (just like chopsticks), but read as kuchibashi is heiban).

most dictionaries just list the syllable which is accented, so 0 (no accent), 1, 2, 3 &c.

mnemonic: chopsticks are bigger where you hold them, ie the beginning. when you're standing in a castle the draw bridge rises away from you, aka at the end.
I don't have a mnemonic for edge.

none of this is day one stuff tho. (lesson 368(!) on imabi) and like imabi points out, it's frequently dialect dependent and not actually necessary to be understood.
also, pedantically, they're morae when talking about accents, not syllables.

[Lonewolf2003]

Meanwhile also two additions to the Eureka MoC list:
Straight Shooting (1917) & Hell Bent (1918). Both are very early Ford Westerns.

[Apu]

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir1000updates.htm

[Fergenaprido]

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir1000updates.htm

Thanks Apu. List updated.
5 new films, all of them newly official.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/confession-1955/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/the+unholy+wife/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/criminal+court/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/mys ... +intruder/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/accomplice-1946/

[WalterNeff]

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir1000updates.htm

Thanks Apu. List updated.
5 new films, all of them newly official.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/confession-1955/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/the+unholy+wife/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/criminal+court/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/mys ... +intruder/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/accomplice-1946/

Fairly certain they were official before with the old mega noir list, since my platinum remains intact.

[Fergenaprido]

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir1000updates.htm

Thanks Apu. List updated.
5 new films, all of them newly official.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/confession-1955/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/the+unholy+wife/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/criminal+court/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/mys ... +intruder/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/accomplice-1946/

Fairly certain they were official before with the old mega noir list, since my platinum remains intact.

I just checked, and yes, all five were on the old More Noirs list, so we're welcoming them back into the fold.

By my count, there are still 189 film on the old list that are unofficial, so not all of them will make the Top 1000 Noirs list since there are only 155 spots left.

[Ebbywebby]

I can tell "Mysterious Intruder" used to be on the list, because apparently I already endured that one back in May, 2017.

[Hunziker]

Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:

Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.

[GruesomeTwosome]

Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:

Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.

Don’t think so, as they’re only supplements.

[Hunziker]

Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:

Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.

Don’t think so, as they’re only supplements.

Oh. Ok.

[dirty_score]

CODA, a remake of La Famille Bélier won the Sundance Grand Jury Prize

[Teproc]

Dear God. It was insuferable enough as a French comedy, I can't even fathom the horror it must be as a Sundance indie.

[Fergenaprido]

CODA, a remake of La Famille Bélier won the Sundance Grand Jury Prize

Thanks. Found a source to confirm. List updated.

[kongs_speech]

Wow, I got the first check on an official film!

[dirty_score]

@joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2

[Onderhond]

Woohoo, more Herman Yau. First one was fun enough, Andy Lau still doesn't look a day over 40

[Fergenaprido]

He is still a very beautiful man. He turns 60 later this year!

[Onderhond]

He is still a very beautiful man. He turns 60 later this year!

Almost 40 years in the business, never slowing down. I'm a bit surprised he never tried to direct though (apart from 1 short film apparently), as that is quite common in HK. Then again, he's also quite active as a singer I believe. Can't do everything

[joachimt]

@joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2

I'll update the list next week.

[dirty_score]

The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)

[Fergenaprido]

The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)

Confirmed. List updated. Thanks dirty. No new official films, but Oldboy hits 30 lists.

[Ebbywebby]

The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)

Nice catch.

[joachimt]

@joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2

Updated. It's official now.

[Harco]

@joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2

Updated. It's official now.

For those keeping tabs, Starsky & Hutch (2004) fell off and is now unofficial.

Still waiting for BOM to fix their gross totals for Notting Hill and The World Is Not Enough so they can make it back onto the list. I've sent them an e-mail twice but to no avail.

[Nopros]

While I am certainly taking this to far, here is a little run-down on what movies might leave the list and the context:

Maybe this have been discussed already, couldn't find through a quick skim. But what about art installations? https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dead+movie/

[Torgo]

As our site is called ICheckArtInstallations, I am perfectly fine with this.

[Fergenaprido]

While I am certainly taking this to far, here is a little run-down on what movies might leave the list and the context:

Maybe this have been discussed already, couldn't find through a quick skim. But what about art installations? https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dead+movie/

Here's the caption for the image Vogel includes of Dead Movie:

DEAD MOVIE
(Taka Iimura, USA, 1968)
Projectors and blank screen as metaphysical monsters, a performance of Iimura's Dead Movie -- face to face projections of two 16mm projectors; one projects a white frame (without film),
the other projects black leader in an endless loop.

It's in the section of the book called THE ELIMINATION OF THE IMAGE.

I found a short clip online that showcases the setup: https://vimeo.com/331598497
You can find a bunch of his other films here: https://film-makerscoop.com/catalogue/t ... -kuzu-junk

As far as I know, no discussion has been had about whether or not art installations should or should not be included (couldn't one consider Empire an art installation?). But for the time being, Dead Movie is explicitly included in the book (i.e. not just a passing reference), so I think it should stay.