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frbrown
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#3601

Post by frbrown »

Fergenaprido wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:55 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:46 pm I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.
I thought the shorts list was a list of films on shorts-only lists, not just a list of the top shorts in tspdt.
I think it was always the latter, a list of top shorts on TSPDT rankings.
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#3602

Post by Dolwphin »

Oh, is Brief Encounters now a ranked-list of the best shorts? Nice!
Top 100 | Top 250

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#3603

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Fergenaprido wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:55 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:46 pm I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.
I thought the shorts list was a list of films on shorts-only lists, not just a list of the top shorts in tspdt. That would explain why there are some feature-length films there.

I prefer a shorts-focused lists instead of just a shorts-filter, since so many film lists tend to ignore shorts completely.
No, both iterations of Brief Encounters (the first unpublished WIP, the second in an extra info spreadsheet) have been a shorts filter on the TSPDT. The only difference here is we're deciding what a short is whereas the other two were filtered by TSPDT.
frbrown wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:56 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:46 pm There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.
Yeah, like I said, runtimes in TSPDT's spreadsheet don't always match IMDb. Also, IMDb considers 45 minute films to be features, not shorts, but the current Brief Encounters list includes 45 min films.
Yeah, I just added those for clarity, I know why it is. Most of those have imprecise runtimes anyway.
Dolwphin wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:59 pm Oh, is Brief Encounters now a ranked-list of the best shorts? Nice!
It has been since 2017.
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#3604

Post by Ebbywebby »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 27th, 2021, 10:46 pm I won't do it with out a bit of time to consider and hear other thoughts, but my initial thought is that yes, that would make sense.

There are 16 things in that list not tagged short on imdb.
Here's 12 of them https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?titl ... s084423609
Plus
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097270/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070136/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0183710/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095590/

Imdb's definition is 44 or less, which accounts for some of these.
Also, when IMDb calls something a "TV movie," they won't classify it as a short.
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#3605

Post by erde »

Now that we know the top 1517 films under 45 minutes, thanks to the wonderful starter list, do we perhaps wish Brief Encounters to be updated to top 500 or even top 1000 list? Or do the films under the top 250 have so few points in the system that they shouldn't be considered all that great? :) Does someone have any idea? It's tricky to consider based on the starter list alone, of course, since the points are not included in it.
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#3606

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

It's hard to tell, but rankings definitely lose meaning outside the top 5000. My guess is it's actually somewhere around 2500-3500 but I suppose there's also the question of what "losing meaning" means.

The Top 250 "45 minutes or less" goes to around 5100-5200 so that's already pushing what reasonable list length is. If I were choosing a list length from scratch I would probably choose a Top 100. I'm ok with a top 250 since the list has been that length and has always been eclectic and at least somewhat arbitrary, but I would not be in favour of extending it.
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#3607

Post by erde »

Sounds sensible.

It's interesting that one has to go through more than 5000 films on the master list to gather the top 250 shorts. One begins to wonder what the Brief Encounters list would be like if it was based solely on short film lists... The result might be quite different.
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#3608

Post by Knaldskalle »

Onderhond wrote: January 27th, 2021, 9:33 pm I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what? :circle:
I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).
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#3609

Post by max-scl »

Knaldskalle wrote: January 28th, 2021, 6:49 pm
Onderhond wrote: January 27th, 2021, 9:33 pm I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what? :circle:
I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).
Yes, that's what I know about chinese too. Cantonese has 9 different tones, while Mandarin has 5 (4 plus a neutral tone). The accents in the mandarin spelling (pinyin) also indicates the tones.
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#3610

Post by Torgo »

Onderhond wrote: January 27th, 2021, 8:45 pm
joachimt wrote: January 27th, 2021, 8:24 pm Again a 0 checks movie on the box office list.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/a+l ... ed+flower/
Quite the famous director though, the votes will come (ones the film hits local streaming platforms I'm guessing). Looking forward to this.
Well there's famous and there's "famous", right? ;) The previous films have 74 and 12 checks on ICM. The bigger one indeed is quite big for a recent Chinese film and also has 3700 votes on IMDb, looks watchable enough (and has Michael Douglas!).
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#3611

Post by Onderhond »

Torgo wrote: January 28th, 2021, 9:58 pm Well there's famous and there's "famous", right? ;) The previous films have 74 and 12 checks on ICM. The bigger one indeed is quite big for a recent Chinese film and also has 3700 votes on IMDb, looks watchable enough (and has Michael Douglas!).
If your film's on Netflix, you're pretty famous in my book. :D
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#3612

Post by Torgo »

hehe, by that definition there are a many, many famous directors. The Wandering Earth (2019) for me is a huge film (almost 27,000 votes, nearly 600 checks on ICM) and also available on Netflix, one where I'd call the director/producer "famous" automatically. I'd say Animal World is several tiers below. Ne Zha (2019) might fill the gap between those two?
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#3613

Post by xianjiro »

Knaldskalle wrote: January 28th, 2021, 6:49 pm
Onderhond wrote: January 27th, 2021, 9:33 pm I know hardly any Chinese (even though I watched quite a few Cantonese/Mandarin films, I find it very hard to break the sounds into words), all I know is there are words that can have many meanings depending on intonation (I think "gao" is a popular example, no?).

But common Western spellings of words in Chinese titles are for example Xun, Chun, Cheun, Cheung and sometimes I suspect they're all different spellings of the same thing. If that wasn't weird enough, Wikipedia start doing this (example: In the Mood for Love):
Mandarin: huāyàng niánhuá
Cantonese: faa1joeng6 nin4waa4

What the what? :circle:
I don't know much about Chinese either, but I think the numbers are there to indicate how the preceding syllable is supposed to be pronounced. The Chinese languages are tonal, so "faa" can be pronounced in different ways: No inflection change, rising inflection, falling inflection, rising-failling inflection and so on (each inflection giving the syllable a different meaning).
While Chinese is more complex with four intonations, Japanese has the same issue, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not found in other east Asian languages.

My favorite, though I never remember the difference is hashi - two distinct syllable ha and she - pronounced one way it means bridge, the other way is chopsticks. I invariably asked to have a bridge to eat with.

However, that said, I believe the underlying kanji (Chinese derived characters) are quite different and shouldn't actually create problems with movie title transliteration. And at least with Japanese, while there are dialects and such, generally that won't affect titles in the same way the two many Chinese variants - Cantonese and Mandarin - do. I've been surprised how many movies have titles in both languages, but I'm unclear how mutually intelligible they are in the ear. The one phrase I know in both, seems like it would be easy to understand in the other "Kung Hei Fat Choi" in Cantonese and "Gong Xi Fa Cai" in Mandarin and I bet there are many other ways to write both using Latin script.

I have had a time tracking down a few east Asian titles when working through some of these lists, but I think the most confusing have been some anime series since they have various iterations.
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#3614

Post by funkybusiness »

hashi: accented first syllable = chopsticks (箸), accented second syllable = bridge(橋). there's also edge (端) which has no accent and each syllable after the first is slightly higher. the first word, chopsticks, has a pitch type known as atamadakagata (頭高型 head high type) and the second, for bridge, is known as odakagata (尾高型 tail high type) while edge is heiban (平板型 flat type). interesting, all three of those technical terms are heiban pitched. there's also nakadakagata (中高型) which is hard to say, but as an accent type there's no example for hashi. (there's also "beak" as an example for hashi which has two kanji 嘴 and 觜 (the 2nd being the less frequently used) but the interesting thing is that the first, which features a mouth (口) as a radical on the left, can be pronounced as hashi or kuchibashi (kuchi being mouth) but the 2nd is only pronounced as hashi. or at least, listed in dictionaries as only being read as hashi note: beak read hashi is atama (just like chopsticks), but read as kuchibashi is heiban).

most dictionaries just list the syllable which is accented, so 0 (no accent), 1, 2, 3 &c.

mnemonic: chopsticks are bigger where you hold them, ie the beginning. when you're standing in a castle the draw bridge rises away from you, aka at the end.
I don't have a mnemonic for edge.

none of this is day one stuff tho. (lesson 368(!) on imabi) and like imabi points out, it's frequently dialect dependent and not actually necessary to be understood.
also, pedantically, they're morae when talking about accents, not syllables.
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#3615

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Meanwhile also two additions to the Eureka MoC list:
Straight Shooting (1917) & Hell Bent (1918). Both are very early Ford Westerns.
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#3618

Post by WalterNeff »

Fairly certain they were official before with the old mega noir list, since my platinum remains intact.
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#3619

Post by Fergenaprido »

WalterNeff wrote: January 31st, 2021, 5:16 pm
Fairly certain they were official before with the old mega noir list, since my platinum remains intact.
I just checked, and yes, all five were on the old More Noirs list, so we're welcoming them back into the fold.

By my count, there are still 189 film on the old list that are unofficial, so not all of them will make the Top 1000 Noirs list since there are only 155 spots left.
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#3620

Post by Ebbywebby »

I can tell "Mysterious Intruder" used to be on the list, because apparently I already endured that one back in May, 2017.
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#3621

Post by Hunziker »

Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:
https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3445-elms-a-cine-essay wrote:Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.
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#3622

Post by GruesomeTwosome »

Hunziker wrote: February 1st, 2021, 5:17 am Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:
https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3445-elms-a-cine-essay wrote:Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.
Don’t think so, as they’re only supplements.
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#3623

Post by Hunziker »

GruesomeTwosome wrote: February 1st, 2021, 5:27 am
Hunziker wrote: February 1st, 2021, 5:17 am Shouldn't https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/elms/ be on the Criterion list?

From the Criterion website:
https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3445-elms-a-cine-essay wrote:Evan Johnson... created four original short “cine-essays” as supplements for Criterion’s release of Maddin’s My Winnipeg. Below is one of them, titled Elms.
Don’t think so, as they’re only supplements.
Oh. Ok.
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#3624

Post by dirty_score »

CODA, a remake of La Famille Bélier won the Sundance Grand Jury Prize
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#3625

Post by Teproc »

Dear God. It was insuferable enough as a French comedy, I can't even fathom the horror it must be as a Sundance indie.
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#3626

Post by Fergenaprido »

dirty_score wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 8:03 pm CODA, a remake of La Famille Bélier won the Sundance Grand Jury Prize
Thanks. Found a source to confirm. List updated.
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#3627

Post by kongs_speech »

Wow, I got the first check on an official film!
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#3628

Post by dirty_score »

@joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2
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#3629

Post by Onderhond »

Woohoo, more Herman Yau. First one was fun enough, Andy Lau still doesn't look a day over 40 :D
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#3630

Post by Fergenaprido »

He is still a very beautiful man. :wub: He turns 60 later this year! :o
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#3631

Post by Onderhond »

Fergenaprido wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 10:29 pm He is still a very beautiful man. :wub: He turns 60 later this year! :o
Almost 40 years in the business, never slowing down. I'm a bit surprised he never tried to direct though (apart from 1 short film apparently), as that is quite common in HK. Then again, he's also quite active as a singer I believe. Can't do everything :)
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#3632

Post by joachimt »

dirty_score wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 9:33 pm @joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2
I'll update the list next week.
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#3633

Post by dirty_score »

The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)
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#3634

Post by Fergenaprido »

dirty_score wrote: February 7th, 2021, 9:43 pm The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)
Confirmed. List updated. Thanks dirty. No new official films, but Oldboy hits 30 lists.
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#3635

Post by Ebbywebby »

dirty_score wrote: February 7th, 2021, 9:43 pm The following films are missing from Tim Dirks's 100+ Most Controversial Films of All-Time list:

Un Chien Andalou (1929, Fr.), Blood Feast (1963), Bad Taste (1987, NZ), Dead Alive (Brain Dead) (1992, NZ), Oldboy (2003, S. Korea), Hostel (2005)
Nice catch.
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#3636

Post by joachimt »

dirty_score wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 9:33 pm @joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2
Updated. It's official now.
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#3637

Post by Harco »

joachimt wrote: February 9th, 2021, 7:45 pm
dirty_score wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 9:33 pm @joachimt new chinese official check WWBoxOffice: Shock Wave 2
Updated. It's official now.
For those keeping tabs, Starsky & Hutch (2004) fell off and is now unofficial.

Still waiting for BOM to fix their gross totals for Notting Hill and The World Is Not Enough so they can make it back onto the list. I've sent them an e-mail twice but to no avail.
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#3638

Post by Nopros »

Quartoxuma wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:43 am While I am certainly taking this to far, here is a little run-down on what movies might leave the list and the context:
Maybe this have been discussed already, couldn't find through a quick skim. But what about art installations? https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dead+movie/ :folded:
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#3639

Post by Torgo »

As our site is called ICheckArtInstallations, I am perfectly fine with this. :innocent:
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#3640

Post by Fergenaprido »

Nopros wrote: February 9th, 2021, 10:04 pm
Quartoxuma wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:43 am While I am certainly taking this to far, here is a little run-down on what movies might leave the list and the context:
Maybe this have been discussed already, couldn't find through a quick skim. But what about art installations? https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dead+movie/ :folded:
Here's the caption for the image Vogel includes of Dead Movie:
DEAD MOVIE
(Taka Iimura, USA, 1968)
Projectors and blank screen as metaphysical monsters, a performance of Iimura's Dead Movie -- face to face projections of two 16mm projectors; one projects a white frame (without film),
the other projects black leader in an endless loop.
It's in the section of the book called THE ELIMINATION OF THE IMAGE.

I found a short clip online that showcases the setup: https://vimeo.com/331598497
You can find a bunch of his other films here: https://film-makerscoop.com/catalogue/t ... -kuzu-junk

As far as I know, no discussion has been had about whether or not art installations should or should not be included (couldn't one consider Empire an art installation?). But for the time being, Dead Movie is explicitly included in the book (i.e. not just a passing reference), so I think it should stay.
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