Official lists updates

[mjf314]

I don't know what that spanish films is about, but one can guess, it's probably very cool or very emotional or has a twist ending, I don't care really if I'm wrong about that, I have a so many spanish films that I feel will be better than that that I will watch first.

The Invisible Guest is a murder mystery, and it has a lot of twists.

[jeroeno]

Updated:

Golden Foundation of Czech and Slovak Cinema (bronze, was silver)

Did someone update that list?

[joachimt]

nope

[Fergenaprido]

Updated:

Golden Foundation of Czech and Slovak Cinema (bronze, was silver)

Did someone update that list?

Not that I can tell. Looks like the same 112 films that have been on it for years. No message in the mod forum, and no change in the "Last Updated" date at the bottom of the list.

[jeroeno]

Well, I guess I'll just watch one more and get that award back

[mjf314]

Well, I guess I'll just watch one more and get that award back

I noticed that your most recent check on the list, Siréna, was 3 days ago. Did you recently uncheck and recheck it?

You're at 75% now, so I assume you'll get the silver award in the next update.

[jeroeno]

Well, I guess I'll just watch one more and get that award back

I noticed that your most recent check on the list, Siréna, was 3 days ago. Did you recently uncheck and recheck it?

You're at 75% now, so I assume you'll get the silver award in the next update.

Yes, I got the silver award when I checked Siréna. Didn't uncheck anything though.

[Fergenaprido]

Another new entry to the Top 250 after the next update.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8110330/

Made the list on the day after it premiered on Disney+. It's the Hindi remake of The Fault in Our Stars, starring the recently deceased Sushant Singh Rajput, which I suspect has more than a little to do with the high praise it's getting. Currently 9.5 with 66K ratings.

[OldAle1]

At least it's not 3 1/2 hours long.

[jeroeno]

Yeah I sat through that piece of crap Fault in Our Stars. I can't even imagine the horror of a Hindi remake.

[tazz_85]

It dropped 34 places on the second day, it probably won't be on the list anymore by next weekend

[dirty_score]

Considering the expansion of TSPDT list of 1000 to 2000 movies, what's going to happen with the Brief Encounters list? Since it's an abandoned project, is it still worth keeping?

[Fergenaprido]

Considering the expansion of TSPDT list of 1000 to 2000 movies, what's going to happen with the Brief Encounters list? Since it's an abandoned project, is it still worth keeping?

The yearly updates and postings on the site about Brief Encounters have ceased, but the project itself has not been fully abandoned. Bill still keeps the lists and tallies them, and the most recent update a year or two ago came about when someone asked him directly for an update and he sent it; I don't recall if he also posted it publicly on his site or elsewhere. Unadopting the list is not something we've discussed as mods yet (at least not since I joined earlier this year), but the adoption of the 1001-2000 list has no bearing on the fate of the Brief Encounters list.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

The yearly updates and postings on the site about Brief Encounters have ceased, but the project itself has not been fully abandoned.

There were never yearly updates. The original list was posted somewhere other than TSPDT as work in progress that never made it (probably because there were a ton of ties and single voted films) and then one year it was posted as one of the sublists on TSPDT (without the Brief Encounters name) and I used that to update it.
The emailed list was an Ain't nobody's blues update.

I think a Brief encounters list is good, and serves a purpose even if there's overlap with the wider TSPDT list, it's specifically about shorts and goes well beyond the main list(s) which are primarily features. An update would be nice, though.

[Gershwin]

The yearly updates and postings on the site about Brief Encounters have ceased, but the project itself has not been fully abandoned.

There were never yearly updates. The original list was posted somewhere other than TSPDT as work in progress that never made it (probably because there were a ton of ties and single voted films) and then one year it was posted as one of the sublists on TSPDT (without the Brief Encounters name) and I used that to update it.
The emailed list was an Ain't nobody's blues update.

I think a Brief encounters list is good, and serves a purpose even if there's overlap with the wider TSPDT list, it's specifically about shorts and goes well beyond the main list(s) which are primarily features. An update would be nice, though.

I don't think the method is completely giving shorts the credit they deserve, though. It's like creating a slasher or a western list (or any other genre list) using the Sight and Sound poll as a starting point. One can easily see why that wouldn't generate the same result as asking the same people to submit a list with their ten favourite slasher movies/westerns/shorts. The premise is very different, so you get a different list.

To make it a bit more specific, most shorts that have a straightforward narrative for instance don't stand a chance on Brief Encounters, and that's not because there aren't any good ones, but because the people submitting lists who are into the more narratively focused films probably won't be including shorts.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

I agree that Brief Encounters is not the best representation of shorts. It is better than a genre sublist in that people consider genre lists differently (does it fit in the genre, how good is it at the genre, etc). I'd say it's more equivalent to a decade sublist, maybe a documentary sublist, where selection bias comes in but not definition bias. So yeah, an actual shorts focused list where respondents explicitly choose shorts would be much more interesting and representative than Brief Encounters, but in the absence of that I think it's ok.

[mjf314]

If at some point in the future we adopt decade lists based on iCM data, maybe we can do the same for short films. It would include a lot of narrative shorts, and would probably be better than the IMDb list.

The problem that Gershwin mentioned wouldn't be a major issue, because iCM users aren't limited to 10 favorites, so people who prefer narrative films can still favorite shorts.
It also wouldn't have the same problem as other genres, because (as Peaceful explained) people don't pick their favorite shorts based on how well they fit the genre.

[WalterNeff]

Do not change Brief Encounters. It's a unique list and his been part of iCM since the start. The list was challenging for many early iCMers and it's part of the early history of the site.

[Melvelet]

The list count in TSPDT's description is really outdated: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tspd ... est+films/

[PeacefulAnarchy]

The list count in TSPDT's description is really outdated: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tspd ... est+films/

Should be better now.

[Lonewolf2003]

The list count in TSPDT's description is really outdated: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tspd ... est+films/

Shall I adjust it to:
"by using over 11.000 individual critics' and filmmakers' lists/ballots for best films of all-time or per genres, countries etc."
?

[mjf314]

The list count in TSPDT's description is really outdated: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tspd ... est+films/

Shall I adjust it to:
"by using over 11.000 individual critics' and filmmakers' lists/ballots for best films of all-time or per genres, countries etc."
?

If you don't want to have to update it every year, you can just say "by using thousands of individual critics'..."

[Lonewolf2003]

No MoC titles in Eureka’s October line-up, so no updates for that list this time.

[joachimt]

I just updated the two BO-lists after a while. There was actually a new entry in the worldwide list.

[joachimt]

Why is it that for many updates lists tend to become more and more anti-auteuristic - judging by their entries? Like for instance, Top 100 Spiritually Significant films. They limited the lists to only one film/director even though basically everyone here knows that certain auteurs are much more spirutual than others. Many other list does the same. This is very worrying for film as an artistic medium. I'm sure there are other lists/selections as well that look down on acclaimed directors. And please don't try to defend this approach by saying that lists with as many directors as possible means "more diversity" - but fact of the matter is - the films on the lists get worse for every update since you treat Jean Renoir just as good as you treat an inferior hack like Luc Besson.

This forum needs a more TSPDT-friendly approach.

Don't feed the troll......

Ah well, I can't help it:

You criticize list making, with an example of Spiritually Significant Films and then you finish with a sneer against this forum. Why? It doesn't make sense at all! We don't make these lists. We don't even pick them. We don't update them.

[pitchorneirda]

For what it's worth, I really don't like the update of the Arts & Faith's Top 100 either but this has more to do with the decline in number of voters and with the methodology (that resembles a lot Doubling the Canon: there are nominations then a rating from 0 to 6 by each participant) than with "anti-auteuristic" opinions

[Onderhond]

the films on the lists get worse for every update since you treat Jean Renoir just as good as you treat an inferior hack like Luc Besson.

Somebody is still stuck in the 60s ... gonna be a shock when the 80s hit!

[Teproc]

For someone stuck in the 60s, their awareness of Besson's hackiness is remarkably prescient.

[dirty_score]

I think https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... nch+films/ should be updated. The list doesn't match with the source. Several movies jumped places and it's down to 98 films.

[Fergenaprido]

I think https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... nch+films/ should be updated. The list doesn't match with the source. Several movies jumped places and it's down to 98 films.

Yes, it looks like it was updated in early 2019 and we missed that. I just scrolled through the list to try and see why it was only 98 films, but I didn't notice any trilogies counting as a single entry or anything like that. Most peculiar. I'll take a closer look again later.

Edit: Actually, there's an English-language update from early 2020 with a slightly different list and a full 100: https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/b ... nch-movies
I suppose this is what we should use as the basis for our list on icm?

[Tim2460]

The order is very different.. Should I email the webmaster for explanation on the French list?

[Fergenaprido]

The order is very different.. Should I email the webmaster for explanation on the French list?

Sure, wouldn't hurt. Thanks Tim.

[dirty_score]

Edit: Actually, there's an English-language update from early 2020 with a slightly different list and a full 100: https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/b ... nch-movies
I suppose this is what we should use as the basis for our list on icm?

I mentioned it to the mods back in March but they weren't keen on it.

[mjf314]

Edit: Actually, there's an English-language update from early 2020 with a slightly different list and a full 100: https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/b ... nch-movies
I suppose this is what we should use as the basis for our list on icm?

I don't think the official list should be replaced with this one. It's a different list from a different website (timeout.com instead of timeout.fr), and it's not based on the poll. For example, La maman et la putain got a lot of votes, but it's not in this top 100.

However, even if it doesn't become official, it would be nice if someone could add it to iCM.

[Fergenaprido]

Edit: Actually, there's an English-language update from early 2020 with a slightly different list and a full 100: https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/b ... nch-movies
I suppose this is what we should use as the basis for our list on icm?

I don't think the official list should be replaced with this one. It's a different list from a different website (timeout.com instead of timeout.fr), and it's not based on the poll. For example, La maman et la putain got a lot of votes, but it's not in this top 100.

However, even if it doesn't become official, it would be nice if someone could add it to iCM.

Is it a different website though? I got there by Clicking on English language button from the French site, and that was in the sidebar. And the URL still clearly states that it's from TimeOut Paris, not London.

Either way, I suggest we hold off on updating the French-language list until Tim hears back from them.

And if no one else has added the English-language list on ICM, I suppose I can do it tomorrow.

Edit: Actually, there's an English-language update from early 2020 with a slightly different list and a full 100: https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/b ... nch-movies
I suppose this is what we should use as the basis for our list on icm?

I mentioned it to the mods back in March but they weren't keen on it.

Ah, I didn't remember that dirty. Sorry!

[mjf314]

I don't know, but even if it's the same website, I would still consider it a different list, instead of an update. Usually Time Out updates lists by changing the original article, but this is a new article.

[xianjiro]

It's entirely possible that a single website might provide and serve different lists (or other content) based on language: publications present information geared towards a target audience. While I have no background on this specific instance, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they have both French (obvs) and English language staff, this might also include different editorial staff/control/guidelines, and who knows how advertising plays into the mix though the goal was once to keep financial and editorial concerns separate, that's largely been relegated to "last century" in all but the most rigorous publications.

I would always be reluctant to assume that an international publication or website is just translating content - probably the only safe way to do this is by using an independent translator on the original language page. I have regularly had to resort to ignoring English language sub-sites on websites from other countries because it was too clear that there was much less information or different information on their English pages or the English page simply didn't exist. However, this is growing less common with the widespread adoption of on-the-fly page translation services.

The decision of which list (English or French) is preferable is ultimately an editorial decision for iCM mods to make but consistency, when possible, is nice.

[mjf314]

I think the important issue is that one list is based on a poll, and one isn't, so I prefer to keep the poll as the official list.

The latest French list may have been edited, but I assume it's still mostly based on the poll.

[Tim2460]

The French site says for the 2019 edition that it has bring serious discution between members of the editorial staff. It don't really talks about any pool. Have you kept info on the previous pool/page?

[Lonewolf2003]

It's entirely possible that a single website might provide and serve different lists (or other content) based on language: publications present information geared towards a target audience. While I have no background on this specific instance, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they have both French (obvs) and English language staff, this might also include different editorial staff/control/guidelines, and who knows how advertising plays into the mix though the goal was once to keep financial and editorial concerns separate, that's largely been relegated to "last century" in all but the most rigorous publications.

I would always be reluctant to assume that an international publication or website is just translating content - probably the only safe way to do this is by using an independent translator on the original language page. I have regularly had to resort to ignoring English language sub-sites on websites from other countries because it was too clear that there was much less information or different information on their English pages or the English page simply didn't exist. However, this is growing less common with the widespread adoption of on-the-fly page translation services.

The decision of which list (English or French) is preferable is ultimately an editorial decision for iCM mods to make but consistency, when possible, is nice.

TimeOut has different (subsidiary) magazines and websites from/for different cities. With their own staff as far as I know. They at least have local journalist for their local reviews. So that’s indeed a possible reason the London list differs from the Paris list, and TimeOut Tokyo f.e. would probably come up with another list again.