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Official lists updates

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Gershwin
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Re: Official lists updates

#2721

Post by Gershwin » March 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm

Lesson learned: don't adopt any more Time Out lists.
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#2722

Post by mjf314 » March 11th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Gershwin wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
Lesson learned: don't adopt any more Time Out lists.
It depends on what the options are. For romance, there aren't any better lists available.

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#2723

Post by Fergenaprido » March 11th, 2020, 2:42 pm

mjf314 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:33 pm
Gershwin wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
Lesson learned: don't adopt any more Time Out lists.
It depends on what the options are. For romance, there aren't any better lists available.
Are some Time Out locations better than others for these types of errors? Or is it pretty endemic across all outlets, from what you've noticed?

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#2724

Post by mjf314 » March 11th, 2020, 3:19 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:42 pm
mjf314 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:33 pm
Gershwin wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
Lesson learned: don't adopt any more Time Out lists.
It depends on what the options are. For romance, there aren't any better lists available.
Are some Time Out locations better than others for these types of errors? Or is it pretty endemic across all outlets, from what you've noticed?
I think both Time Out New York and Time Out London have this problem. I'm not sure about the others. The worst example is the animation poll, where they changed the winner (they put Pinocchio at #1, even though it was only #4 by number of votes). In the other lists, it's just minor changes. They slightly reorder the results, and they cut off lists at 100 (which is a problem because of ties).

In the new romance list, they added 2 films that didn't get any votes, and they removed a 5-vote film (Vertigo) and a 4-vote film (Secretary), while some 2-vote films remain on the list.

Despite the problems, I still think the lists should be official if there are no better lists available.

Edit: I see that Time Out Paris's French list has been updated a few times in the past (without running a new poll). The latest French list is from Time Out London, but they didn't edit the Time Out Paris article, so I think it's clear that it's not intended as an update.

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#2725

Post by Tim2460 » March 11th, 2020, 3:37 pm

For Joachimt : I guess someone already said it ... --> the new cinema tropical list is on the Website Tab, the old one is in country Tab

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#2726

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 11th, 2020, 3:40 pm

Tim2460 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 3:37 pm
For Joachimt : I guess someone already said it ... --> the new cinema tropical list is on the Website Tab, the old one is in country Tab
Fixed

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#2727

Post by Tim2460 » March 11th, 2020, 4:07 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 3:40 pm
Tim2460 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 3:37 pm
For Joachimt : I guess someone already said it ... --> the new cinema tropical list is on the Website Tab, the old one is in country Tab
Fixed
:cheers:

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#2728

Post by xianjiro » March 12th, 2020, 1:05 am

mjf314 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:42 pm
mjf314 wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 2:33 pm


It depends on what the options are. For romance, there aren't any better lists available.
Are some Time Out locations better than others for these types of errors? Or is it pretty endemic across all outlets, from what you've noticed?
I think both Time Out New York and Time Out London have this problem. I'm not sure about the others. The worst example is the animation poll, where they changed the winner (they put Pinocchio at #1, even though it was only #4 by number of votes). In the other lists, it's just minor changes. They slightly reorder the results, and they cut off lists at 100 (which is a problem because of ties).

In the new romance list, they added 2 films that didn't get any votes, and they removed a 5-vote film (Vertigo) and a 4-vote film (Secretary), while some 2-vote films remain on the list.

Despite the problems, I still think the lists should be official if there are no better lists available.

Edit: I see that Time Out Paris's French list has been updated a few times in the past (without running a new poll). The latest French list is from Time Out London, but they didn't edit the Time Out Paris article, so I think it's clear that it's not intended as an update.
Isn't there a special place for poll manipulators? 👿

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#2729

Post by Tim2460 » March 12th, 2020, 9:05 am

Still no new Hapostrophe's ? ;)

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#2730

Post by sol » March 12th, 2020, 12:57 pm

joachimt wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 7:49 pm
Announcement:
Next Monday (March 9th) most official lists will get new names. The naming of lists have always been a bit messy, so we've decided to change most names so the naming is as consistent as possible. So next week you'll find the lists at another place in the alphabetical order. Also some links might be broken for a short while, because the urls will change. Redirects to the new urls will be made as soon as possible after the name change.
:geek:

This is going to take a lot of "getting used to". :mellow:

Scott Hocking's 100 Greatest Films of Australian Cinema

Jennifer Eiss's 500 Essential Cult Movies

Wei Jun Zi's 100 Classic Martial Arts Films

Magyar Művészeti Akadémia's 53 Hungarian Films

Jerry Beck's The 50 Greatest Cartoons <-- no longer it's a gift

Tom Vick's Asian Cinema: A Field Guide <-- surely this was descriptive and unique enough without the Tom Vick part*

Marshall Julius's Action! The Action Movie A-Z's <-- same

* I mean, you didn't rename 1001 MYMSBYD with Schneider's name

Brief Encounters <-- not renamed as "TSPDT's" ?? Ain't Blues was just renamed.

Eh, this isn't the biggest deal or anything :unsure: but I am generally not a fan of longer list names. They tend to get cut off on the My Progress page, which is annoying because I can't then Cltr+F for "Australia" to find the Australian list etc. :shrug:
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#2731

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 12th, 2020, 1:33 pm

sol wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 12:57 pm


* I mean, you didn't rename 1001 MYMSBYD with Schneider's name

Brief Encounters <-- not renamed as "TSPDT's" ?? Ain't Blues was just renamed.
He's not done, pretty sure Brief encounters is coming.

mymsbyd is already too long, otherwise it would get schneiders name

I hope we use short names on the progress page like on the signatures, we'll see.

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#2732

Post by Onderhond » March 12th, 2020, 2:02 pm

sol wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 12:57 pm
Jerry Beck's The 50 Greatest Cartoons <-- no longer it's a gift
Rightfully so! More like a punishment :p

I do appreciate the renaming btw. Makes it clearer these lists are just one people's opinion rather than something intersubjective.

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#2733

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm

Funny that you say that when quoting Beck's list which is the one that is intersubjective.

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#2734

Post by Onderhond » March 12th, 2020, 2:29 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Funny that you say that when quoting Beck's list which is the one that is intersubjective.
Then the naming makes absolutely no sense!

Just my 2 cents :p

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#2735

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 12th, 2020, 4:18 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 2:29 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Funny that you say that when quoting Beck's list which is the one that is intersubjective.
Then the naming makes absolutely no sense!

Just my 2 cents :p
He ran the poll and edited the book that contained the results and commentary on the film so it makes some sense. The other lists with authors are single or editorial choices though.

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#2736

Post by albajos » March 12th, 2020, 4:30 pm

But it's not his opinion.

Editors should not be listed as authors

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#2737

Post by Onderhond » March 12th, 2020, 5:29 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 4:18 pm
He ran the poll and edited the book that contained the results and commentary on the film so it makes some sense.
Myes, but the title doesn't express that at all. And I'm quite certain that won't be people's first idea when they see the title, so communication-wise it's not a good choice.

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#2738

Post by joachimt » March 12th, 2020, 8:59 pm

Another project I soon like to start is rewriting a lot of descriptions. Information about how a list is compiled should be in the description, like in Beck's case.

What we're doing it naming a list "Source Name's List Name", so for example "BFI's 100 Musicals". That way all BFI-lists will be grouped, etc...
But some names get too long. Marijn wants names to have a maximum of roughly 55 characters. One of the Jay Schneider lists got too long, so his name was excluded from the title, but for consistency we excluded it from all his lists. Not a big deal in his case, because the before-you-die series is a well known name.

And indeed, I'm far from done yet. I hope to finish this before the end of the weekend.
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#2739

Post by Harco » March 12th, 2020, 9:13 pm

Joachim, can you change the capital letter in “Of” in the Best Of Rotten Tomatoes lost to lower case? From the top of my head it’s the only list name that capitalizes a preposition. 😁

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#2740

Post by joachimt » March 12th, 2020, 9:32 pm

Harco wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:13 pm
Joachim, can you change the capital letter in “Of” in the Best Of Rotten Tomatoes lost to lower case? From the top of my head it’s the only list name that capitalizes a preposition. 😁
All such flaws will be fixed. No need to make suggestions in this thread. Actually: PLEASE DON'T! We've been discussing names for weeks.
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#2741

Post by Gershwin » March 12th, 2020, 9:45 pm

joachimt wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:59 pm
What we're doing it naming a list "Source Name's List Name", so for example "BFI's 100 Musicals". That way all BFI-lists will be grouped, etc...
To be honest I think communication-wise this is a big mistake. You should place the relevant information first. So list subject first, source or editor or whatever second. Yes, alphabetically that doesn't provide the same benefits, but that's because iCM is inherently flawed in lots of ways and doesn't provide the ability to filter on the progress page et cetera.

Like Sol said, it's already hard enough to find certain lists on the progress page, as long as it doesn't show the complete name.
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#2742

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 12th, 2020, 9:57 pm

Gershwin wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:45 pm
To be honest I think communication-wise this is a big mistake. You should place the relevant information first. So list subject first, source or editor or whatever second. Yes, alphabetically that doesn't provide the same benefits, but that's because iCM is inherently flawed in lots of ways and doesn't provide the ability to filter on the progress page et cetera.
But sometimes the source is the most important part. Consistency was chosen as the primary driver.

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#2743

Post by brokenface » March 12th, 2020, 11:18 pm

What really doesn't endear me to some of these name changes is how it'll make things show up on film pages so text descriptive of the list gets cut off after source name. It's fine if the source is the reason the list is official (e.g. the directors lists or established critics), but is 'Wei Jun Zi's 100 Classic...something' going to mean anything to anyone who happens upon this page?:

Image

And on beta it's no better currently

Image

I'm sorry but the one pertinent thing that you want to know about that list is that it's a list of Martial Arts films, and that's now hidden in both the title of the list on film pages, and where it's filed in the progress page (Websites :unsure: ). Okay I'm in danger of going on about a Genre tab again, I'll stop :whistling:

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#2744

Post by albajos » March 12th, 2020, 11:37 pm

Yes, the ICM site isn't really designed for this change

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#2745

Post by WalterNeff » March 12th, 2020, 11:44 pm

The obvious solution is a tab for every genre.

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#2746

Post by mjf314 » March 13th, 2020, 1:00 am

I made a script that converts the progress page to 1 column, and displays the full list names. In the screenshot below, you can see what it looks like.

I hope this will be a temporary solution, and that Marijn will be able to do something about it.

To install the script:
Open Tampermonkey in Chrome. Go to the dashboard and click + to create a new script. Copy/paste the code and press ctrl+S to save.

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name         icm progress page 1 column
// @match        https://*.icheckmovies.com/profiles/progress/*
// ==/UserScript==

const x = document.querySelectorAll('.listItem');
for (const i of x) {
    i.style.width = '550px';
}

const y = document.querySelectorAll('.progressPercentage');
for (const i of y) {
    i.setAttribute('style', 'width:459px !important');
}

const z = document.querySelectorAll('.listItem h3');
for (const i of z) {
    i.style.width = '375px';
    i.style.display = 'inline-block';
}

const lists = document.querySelectorAll('.title.icon.genreIcon');
for (const i of lists) {
    const title = i.title;
    i.innerHTML = title.replace('View the ', '').replace(' top list', '');
}

const tabs = document.querySelectorAll('ol[id*=progress]');
for (const parent of tabs) {
    let children = parent.children;
    for (let i = 1; i < children.length/2; i++) {
        parent.appendChild(children[i]);
    }
}
Image

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#2747

Post by xianjiro » March 13th, 2020, 1:01 am

WalterNeff wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 11:44 pm
The obvious solution is a tab for every genre.
gee, I thought it was adopting a pre-code list? The universal kinopanacea! :P

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#2748

Post by xianjiro » March 13th, 2020, 1:05 am

mjf314 wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 1:00 am
I made a script that converts the progress page to 1 column, and displays the full list names. In the screenshot below, you can see what it looks like.

I hope this will be a temporary solution, and that Marijn will be able to do something about it.
SpoilerShow
To install the script:
Open Tampermonkey in Chrome. Go to the dashboard and click + to create a new script. Copy/paste the code and press ctrl+S to save.

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name         icm progress page 1 column
// @match        https://*.icheckmovies.com/profiles/progress/*
// ==/UserScript==

const x = document.querySelectorAll('.listItem');
for (const i of x) {
    i.style.width = '550px';
}

const y = document.querySelectorAll('.progressPercentage');
for (const i of y) {
    i.style.borderRight = 'none';
}


const z = document.querySelectorAll('.listItem h3');
for (const i of z) {
    i.style.width = '375px';
    i.style.display = 'inline-block';
}

const lists = document.querySelectorAll('.title.icon.genreIcon');
for (const i of lists) {
    const title = i.title;
    i.innerHTML = title.replace('View the ', '').replace(' top list', '');
}

const tabs = document.querySelectorAll('ol[id*=progress]');
for (const parent of tabs) {
    let children = parent.children;
    for (let i = 1; i < children.length/2; i++) {
        parent.appendChild(children[i]);
    }
}
Image
:thumbsup: :worship: :cheers: (l) :banana:

thank you thank you thank you !!!!

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#2749

Post by WalterNeff » March 13th, 2020, 1:32 am

xianjiro wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 1:01 am
WalterNeff wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 11:44 pm
The obvious solution is a tab for every genre.
gee, I thought it was adopting a pre-code list? The universal kinopanacea! :P
Fixing apostrophes seems to be a higher priority than adopting lists.

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#2750

Post by Knaldskalle » March 13th, 2020, 2:29 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:57 pm
Consistency was chosen as the primary driver.
Foolish consistency..?
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Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.

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#2751

Post by frbrown » March 13th, 2020, 2:53 am

joachimt wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:32 pm
No need to make suggestions in this thread.
Is there another thread where we can make suggestions?

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#2752

Post by xianjiro » March 13th, 2020, 3:24 am

frbrown wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 2:53 am
joachimt wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:32 pm
No need to make suggestions in this thread.
Is there another thread where we can make suggestions?
I don't want to put words in another's mouth, but I got the idea that the ship has sailed, work is being done, and therefore suggestions aren't really helpful. However, if you notice a problem, especially one no one has already pointed out, that might be helpful at some point in the future. :)

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#2753

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 13th, 2020, 4:47 am

frbrown wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 2:53 am
joachimt wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:32 pm
No need to make suggestions in this thread.
Is there another thread where we can make suggestions?
You can make suggestions, but the idea is that decisions have been made, so I doubt minds will be changed.
If you notice typos or mistakes within the framework then those will probably be acted upon soon.
If you're suggesting a different format for the framework then I doubt anything will be changed.
If you point out a problem/side effect with what's been done, like the progress page issue, then that's helpful to know it should be addressed although that is one we were aware of.

In this case, though, the suggestion was about an issue in a list which hasn't been renamed, which is not helpful at all since we've likely already got a change queued up. So at least wait to see the new fix before pointing something out.

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#2754

Post by Tim2460 » March 13th, 2020, 7:04 am

MJF314 script Works fine in top of the ICM Enhanced script (Set up to 1 collum too).

Good job

Edit : exept the green bar 100% on the background is still at the "old" 100% place hehe --> Not a big deal

Edit 2 : Using both ICM Enhanced & MJF script one collum screwed the sorting of the final lsit : works fine with just MFJ's one ,)

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#2755

Post by mjf314 » March 13th, 2020, 10:46 am

I didn't realize iCM Enhanced had an option for that, but I see now that it doesn't display the full list name. Maybe the magician can add that feature to his script.

I noticed the green bar issue, but I couldn't figure out how to fix it.

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#2756

Post by mjf314 » March 13th, 2020, 3:03 pm

I fixed the green bar issue and edited my code in the earlier post.

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#2757

Post by Tim2460 » March 13th, 2020, 5:04 pm

It's hard to understand how well the rename job and simplification is wihout charting them ...

For my part, i'm impressed with the job done so far : clearly a lot of thaught went into it : Congrats Mod ;)

Old Names 72 New Names 56
100 American Independent Films (BFI Screen Guide) 49 BFI's 100 American Independent Films 36
100 Animated Feature Films (BFI Screen Guides) 46 BFI's 100 Animated Feature Films 32
100 Best British films 22 Time Out's The 100 Best British Films 37
100 Classic Martial Arts Films 30 Wei Jun Zi's 100 Classic Martial Arts Films 43
100 Documentary Films (BFI Screen Guide) 40 BFI's 100 Documentary Films 27
100 Greatest Films of Australian Cinema 39 Scott Hocking's 100 Greatest Films of Australian Cinema 55
100 Korean Films 16 KOFA's 100 Korean Films 23
100 Korean Masterpieces by Film 2.0 (2008 Edition) 50 Film 2.0's 100 Korean Masterpieces 34
100 Musicals (BFI Screen Guide) 31 BFI's 100 Film Musicals 23
100 Must-See Films Of The 20th Century 38 Leonard Maltin's 100 Must-See Films of the 20th Century 55
100 Road Movies (BFI Screen Guide) 34 BFI's 100 Road Movies 21
100 Science Fiction Films (BFI Screen Guide) 44 BFI's 100 Science Fiction Films 31
100 Westerns (BFI Screen Guide) 31 BFI's 100 Westerns 18
366 Weird Movies (Certified Weird) 34 366 Weird Movies 16
50 Greatest Sequels 19 Empire's The Greatest Movie Sequels 35
500 Essential Cult Movies 25 Jennifer Eiss's 500 Essential Cult Movies 41
501 Must See Movies 19 Emma Beare's 501 Must-See Movies 32
53 Magyar Film - Best Hungarian Films 37 Magyar Művészeti Akadémia's 53 Hungarian Films 46
A Personal Journey with Martin Scorsese Through American Movies 63 A Personal Journey with Martin Scorsese 39
A.V. Club - The best films of the '00s 38 A.V. Club's The Best Movies of the 2000s 40
Academy Award Best Cinematography 33 Academy Award - Best Cinematography 35
Academy Award Best Foreign Language Film Nominees 49 Academy Award - Best International Feature Film Nominees 56
Academy Award Best Foreign Pictures 35 Academy Award - Best International Feature Film 47
Academy Award Best Picture Nominees 35 Academy Award - Best Picture Nominees 37
Academy Award Best Pictures 27 Academy Award - Best Picture 28
Action! The Action Movie A-Z 28 Marshall Julius's Action! The Action Movie A-Z 46
Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own 31 TSPDT's Ain't Nobody's Blues but My Own 39
All Time Box Office 19 Box Office Mojo's All Time Adjusted Box Office 46
All-Time Worldwide Box office 29 Box Office Mojo's All Time Worldwide Box Office 47
Amanda Award - Best Film 24 Amanda Award - Best Norwegian Film 34
Anthology Film Archives' Essential Cinema 41 Anthology Film Archives's Essential Cinema 42
Ariel Award 11 Ariel Award - Best Mexican Film 31
Asian Cinema: A Field Guide 27 Tom Vick's Asian Cinema: A Field Guide 38
Badmovies.org Best B-Movies 27 Badmovies.org's Best B-Movies 29
BAFTA - Best Film 17 BAFTA Award - Best Film 23
BBC's 100 greatest films of the 21st Century 44 BBC's The 21st Century's 100 Greatest Films 43
Belgian Film Awards 19 Belgian Film Award - Best Film 30
Berlin International Film Festival - Golden Bears 49 Berlin International Film Festival - Golden Bear 48
Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck 48 Jerry Beck's The 50 Greatest Cartoons 37
Best Of Rotten Tomatoes 23 Rotten Tomatoes's Top 100 Movies of All Time 44
BFI 100 7 BFI's Top 100 British Films 27
BFI Flare's Best LGBT Films of All Time 39 BFI Flare's The Best LGBTQ+ Films of All Time 45
Bodil Award Winners for Best Danish Film 40 Bodil Award - Best Danish Film 30
Brief Encounters 16 TSPDT's Brief Encounters 24
Cahiers du cinéma - Yearly top 10s 34 Cahiers du Cinéma's Annual Top 10 Lists 39
Cahiers du cinéma 100 21 Cahiers du Cinéma's 100 Films for an Ideal Cinematheque 55
César Award - Best Film 23 Cien años sin soledad: Greatest Latin American Films 52
Cien años sin soledad: The Greatest Latin American Films of All Time 68 César Award - Best French Film 30
Cinema Tropical - Top Ten Latin American Films of the Decade (2000-2009) 72 Cinema Tropical's Best Latin American Films 2000-2009 53
Cinema Tropical - Top Ten Latin American Films of the Decade (2010-2019) 72 Cinema Tropical's Best Latin American Films 2010-2019 53
Last edited by Tim2460 on March 13th, 2020, 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tim2460
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#2758

Post by Tim2460 » March 13th, 2020, 5:06 pm

mjf314 wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 3:03 pm
I fixed the green bar issue and edited my code in the earlier post.
:cheers:

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joachimt
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#2759

Post by joachimt » March 13th, 2020, 6:22 pm

Tim2460 wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 5:04 pm
For my part, i'm impressed with the job done so far : clearly a lot of thaught went into it : Congrats Mod ;)
Thanks, Tim. Means a lot to me to hear this, because it has been a lot of work already and I'm not done yet renaming.

No need to keep track of changes, btw. You'll get a list afterwards.
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Ebbywebby
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#2760

Post by Ebbywebby » March 13th, 2020, 8:32 pm

I really don't like all the "possessives" added, sorry. If adding an attribution was important, I would have chosen the format of "100 Classic Martial Arts Films (Wei Jun Zi)" rather than "Wei Jun Zi's 100 Classic Martial Arts Films."

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