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Official lists updates

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Re: Official lists updates

#2441

Post by joachimt » January 2nd, 2020, 9:13 pm

Darth Nevets wrote:
January 2nd, 2020, 4:58 pm
joachimt wrote:
January 2nd, 2020, 11:10 am
Nathan Treadway wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 1:37 am
Is the big box office list (tm) still going to be updated? If so, Ford v Ferrari, Knives Out and Star Wars should all be on the list now.
I just updated the BO-lists. I used the cutoffs as before.
However, BOM changed the pages again. Now both lists are 1000 titles long, so now there's also a top 1000 adjusted. I'll discuss this at the modsboard.
But we have to follow the source. Its BOMs choice and not ours. There is no way of knowing these numbers now. :$
Yes, I agree. I want to follow the source. You keep thinking I don't want that list to be big, but that's not true. I just don't want to do anything hasty. We'll wait a little more to see if this is staying or if BOM keeps changing things. I don't want to change it to 1000 now and then change it back two weeks later.
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#2442

Post by Harco » January 3rd, 2020, 3:23 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
January 2nd, 2020, 6:58 pm
For the adjusted list I think 1000 is great, but I'm concerned by how much older data mojo is missing. It doesn't matter for the top 100 since they got most of the big hitters, and was kind of forgivable in the top 200, but probably a third to half of films that should be on a top 1000 aren't there because of their very lacking pre70s data.
Any way to contact BOM and point them towards the right data?

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#2443

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 3rd, 2020, 9:49 pm

I'm going to try, but they're under imdb so I doubt I can get anyone who matters to listen. The data is available and they've obviously used it for a few films, so I expect it's more that they don't care rather than they don't know about it.

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#2444

Post by Lakigigar » January 4th, 2020, 12:13 pm

There is now a game on the ICM Favorites list: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

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#2445

Post by sol » January 4th, 2020, 12:21 pm

Laki is right: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/unc ... g+thieves/

Only 22 checks though. I thought that there was a lower limit on number of checks needed before a film could qualify with the formula?
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#2446

Post by maxwelldeux » January 4th, 2020, 6:05 pm

sol wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:21 pm
Laki is right: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/unc ... g+thieves/

Only 22 checks though. I thought that there was a lower limit on number of checks needed before a film could qualify with the formula?
No lower limit - the formula is #faves/(#checks + 50)

With 10 faves out of 23 checks, it somehow works. :shrug:

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#2447

Post by albajos » January 4th, 2020, 6:10 pm

games are not supposed to be in the icm database regardless

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#2448

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 4th, 2020, 9:40 pm

Yeah that shouldn't be on the site, but imdb keeps changing how they label video games and people keep importing them somehow.

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#2449

Post by Ebbywebby » January 4th, 2020, 10:08 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:13 pm
There is now a game on the ICM Favorites list: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Booooooooo.

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#2450

Post by Lakigigar » January 4th, 2020, 11:13 pm

https://forum.fok.nl/topic/2533582

The new fok! top 250 is there, you're all welcome to participate, even if you're not dutch.

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#2451

Post by edward5 » January 5th, 2020, 6:43 am

Cahiers du Cinéma Top 10 Of 2019
1. le livre d'image (Jean-Luc Godard)
2. Parasite (Bong Joon-ho)
3. Synonymes (Nadav Lapid)
4. Bacurau (Kleber Mendonça Filho, Juliano Dornelles)
5. Jeanne (Bruno Dumont)
6. Dolor y gloria (Pedro Almodóvar)
7. Les misérables (Ladj Ly)
8. The Mule (Clint Eastwood)
9. Joker (Todd Phillips)
10. The Irishman (Martin Scorsese)

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#2452

Post by jeroeno » January 5th, 2020, 7:36 am

Dumont, Eastwood and Godard can just film someone shitting for an hour and a half and still be included in the Cahiers du Cinéma list.

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#2453

Post by Teproc » January 5th, 2020, 8:31 am

Btw, why are the Cahiers lists in the "Institutes" tab ? Shouldn't they be in the "Critics" tab ?

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#2454

Post by joachimt » January 5th, 2020, 8:25 pm

edward5 wrote:
January 5th, 2020, 6:43 am
Cahiers du Cinéma Top 10 Of 2019
1. le livre d'image (Jean-Luc Godard)
2. Parasite (Bong Joon-ho)
3. Synonymes (Nadav Lapid)
4. Bacurau (Kleber Mendonça Filho, Juliano Dornelles)
5. Jeanne (Bruno Dumont)
6. Dolor y gloria (Pedro Almodóvar)
7. Les misérables (Ladj Ly)
8. The Mule (Clint Eastwood)
9. Joker (Todd Phillips)
10. The Irishman (Martin Scorsese)
Thanks. Updated.
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#2455

Post by Lakigigar » January 5th, 2020, 8:45 pm

1. Reservoir Dogs
2. Pulp Fiction
3. 2001: A Space Odyssey
4. Irreversible
5. The Neon Demon
6. A Clockwork Orange
7. City of God
8. Se7en
9. Fight Club
10. Black Swan

Currently in the fok! top 250 after 7 lists. I think an earthquake will happen. :circle:

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#2456

Post by Nathan Treadway » January 6th, 2020, 4:14 am

1917 and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood won the Best Pictures at the Globes tonight. The list is already updated to reflect this, just wanted to post here, in case anyone didn't catch this.

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#2457

Post by sol » January 6th, 2020, 4:39 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
January 6th, 2020, 4:14 am
1917 and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood won the Best Pictures at the Globes tonight. The list is already updated to reflect this, just wanted to post here, in case anyone didn't catch this.
Watched the ceremony live. Definitely some WTF things there - neither Frozen nor Toy Story winning Animated Feature would be the biggest. I haven't seen 1917 myself to comment, but its two wins and Best Supporting Actress were the only other categories that I personally predicted incorrectly. Looks like we have a new Oscar Best Picture front-runner now.
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#2458

Post by Nathan Treadway » January 6th, 2020, 5:55 am

sol wrote:
January 6th, 2020, 4:39 am
Nathan Treadway wrote:
January 6th, 2020, 4:14 am
1917 and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood won the Best Pictures at the Globes tonight. The list is already updated to reflect this, just wanted to post here, in case anyone didn't catch this.
Watched the ceremony live. Definitely some WTF things there - neither Frozen nor Toy Story winning Animated Feature would be the biggest. I haven't seen 1917 myself to comment, but its two wins and Best Supporting Actress were the only other categories that I personally predicted incorrectly. Looks like we have a new Oscar Best Picture front-runner now.
The Oscar Best Picture race is really between 4 movies (and probably has been for quite some time) at this point I'd say:

-1917
-Irishman
-Joker
-Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

Little Women, Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will almost certainly be nominated, beyond that who knows?

I don't think anything is going to stop Parasite from winning International Film. 3/5 of the noms are going to be Les Miserables, Pain and Glory and Parasite. The other two is anyones guess. Most of what I've seen from the shortlisted bunch has been bleak as hell, for some reason, Parasite being the "lightest" of the group.

Missing Link was an upset. It'd be an upset if it wins the Oscar as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even nominated. I'd say either Frozen or Toy Story is still the front runner. I can't see Disney losing this award two years in a row.

I've not seen enough of the remaining docs to predict anything there yet, although the majority of the ones remaining are available online. I'll probably watch most of them this week.

Trying to guess the Shorts is really a fools errand. Of the shortlisted ones I've seen, I've not been particularly fond of any one of them.

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#2459

Post by jeroeno » January 6th, 2020, 6:04 am

So Netflix only won with Laura Dern for Marriage Story? I wonder if this'll be a trend. A lot of these voters really don't like Netflix.

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#2460

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 6th, 2020, 7:40 am

I don't know, Irishman and Marriage Story were good, but I'm not sure I'd call any of their losses snubs rather than just losing to something more liked. Irishman felt like a quintessential "nominate for everything but no individual piece truly stands out" film, and Marriage Story is all about the acting. Wouldn't have been surprising to see them win more but also not surprising to see them come back with little. Not like Roma losing at the Oscars last year, in any case.

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#2461

Post by xianjiro » January 6th, 2020, 11:27 am

jeroeno wrote:
January 5th, 2020, 7:36 am
Dumont, Eastwood and Godard can just film someone shitting for an hour and a half and still be included in the Cahiers du Cinéma list.
I'm sure length is irrelevant to making the list, but maybe the longer the turd the higher on the list?

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#2462

Post by dirty_score » January 6th, 2020, 11:33 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 10:08 pm
Lakigigar wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:13 pm
There is now a game on the ICM Favorites list: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Booooooooo.
It's gone from the list but another game has appeared: GTA V

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#2463

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 7th, 2020, 8:21 pm

Updated the rotten tomatoes list. We truly are in a golden age where half the top 100 movies ever were made in the last 5 years.

Also new entry in imdb's Top 250 that I've never heard of and am now curious to see.

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#2464

Post by Fergenaprido » January 8th, 2020, 4:13 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 8:21 pm
Updated the rotten tomatoes list. We truly are in a golden age where half the top 100 movies ever were made in the last 5 years.

Also new entry in imdb's Top 250 that I've never heard of and am now curious to see.
Oof, that RT update! How often are you planning to update the list on icm?

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#2465

Post by tommy_leazaq » January 8th, 2020, 5:14 am

If I watch all the cut scenes from GTA V, would that constitute a check? :turned:

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#2466

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 8th, 2020, 5:28 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 4:13 am
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 8:21 pm
Updated the rotten tomatoes list. We truly are in a golden age where half the top 100 movies ever were made in the last 5 years.

Also new entry in imdb's Top 250 that I've never heard of and am now curious to see.
Oof, that RT update! How often are you planning to update the list on icm?
I update the list every few months. But two years ago RT changed it so that major updates only happen in the new year, so even though the previous update was in October/November all those films only became eligible in the last week or two (I don't keep close enough track to know exactly which day). The rest of the year is only small changes. I think their criteria is something like available for home viewing on Dec 31.

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#2467

Post by Lakigigar » January 8th, 2020, 11:07 am

tommy_leazaq wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 5:14 am
If I watch all the cut scenes from GTA V, would that constitute a check? :turned:
Yes again a game on the ICM Favourites list, pff. They're trolling us. I have both played Uncharted 2 and GTA V but i refuse to check them. Just like i don't watch shorts for the sake of it. They don't interest me, simple and clear. I want to watch long features, and help creating lists here and occassionally participate in a challenge but i'm not occupied with having seen the most movies ever. That's why i'm at rank 23000 as a beginning movie watcher and i don't care about my rank, but i want to see all the best movies of the world and complete top 250 lists, and later TSPDT and 1000 movies to watch, and see the best of foreign cinema, but i don't need to watch shorts because i want a higher rank.

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#2468

Post by Onderhond » January 8th, 2020, 11:09 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 8:21 pm
We truly are in a golden age where half the top 100 movies ever were made in the last 5 years.
RT is just critics consensus. And with the ever increasing pressure on their job (and their general lack of backbone), it's not too surprising that they seem to be more and more in agreement these days.

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#2469

Post by Teproc » January 8th, 2020, 11:13 am

Well, I think it's not so much that critics have "less backbone" (whatever that's supposed to mean) as much as the date RT gets for current films is impossible to compare with what they get for older films, for obvious reasons. I assume the number of reviews is a factor in what gets on that list, and older films obviously can't compete since RT doesn't go back and use reviews from the day in their database.

Don't forget that "fresh" is a very low threshold for consensus: would you say critics were unanimous about Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood this year ? I sure wouldn't, and yet it's on this list.

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#2470

Post by Onderhond » January 8th, 2020, 11:45 am

Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:13 am
Well, I think it's not so much that critics have "less backbone" (whatever that's supposed to mean)
It means that for whatever reason (pressure from readers, publications, movie publishers, ...) it feels to me that they are less inclined to write against popular (or expected) opinion.

I mean, we all understand opinions are subjective, different people have different taste and all that, but for some reason, 96% of 407 reviewers wrote a positive review about a film (the Irishman) that feels like it could've been released 25 years ago. Which isn't a knock on people who liked the film, mind, but that's an unhealthy consensus for a film that brings little to nothing new to the table.

On the other end of the line, critics were toppling over each other to write the funniest diss of Cats, a film that has its fair share of faults, but is like no other.

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#2471

Post by mightysparks » January 8th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Onderhond wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:45 am
Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:13 am
Well, I think it's not so much that critics have "less backbone" (whatever that's supposed to mean)
It means that for whatever reason (pressure from readers, publications, movie publishers, ...) it feels to me that they are less inclined to write against popular (or expected) opinion.

I mean, we all understand opinions are subjective, different people have different taste and all that, but for some reason, 96% of 407 reviewers wrote a positive review about a film (the Irishman) that feels like it could've been released 25 years ago. Which isn't a knock on people who liked the film, mind, but that's an unhealthy consensus for a film that brings little to nothing new to the table.

On the other end of the line, critics were toppling over each other to write the funniest diss of Cats, a film that has its fair share of faults, but is like no other.
Yea, we finished The Irishman a few hours ago and were reading out some reviews to each other to find out why people liked it. They were all saying the same things, with some lines verbatim, and a couple of the negative opinions (non-critic) were apologizing for not loving it or 'seeing the light' and questioning their own opinions :/ This is why I don't bother reading critics or reviews. They either say a lot of words that mean nothing or they say the same thing as everyone else.
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#2472

Post by Onderhond » January 8th, 2020, 1:23 pm

mightysparks wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 12:57 pm
They either say a lot of words that mean nothing or they say the same thing as everyone else.
And mostly about films that really don't need an ounce of extra exposure, because they are marketed like crazy already. Imo, critics have become an integral part of the marketing machine nowadays. Their consensus on the quality of a film is a footnote at best.

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#2473

Post by Teproc » January 8th, 2020, 1:31 pm

I mean, consensus is the least interesting thing about critics anyway. I guess I don't share you guys' pessimism, I've found plenty of interesting critics to follow, and though they certainly do have the echo chamber issue of all talking about the same thing at one time, there are those who do go out of their way a bit more... maybe not as much as some users here, but where I'm at in my cinephilia, I find critics to mostly be a positive force if you pick the right ones for you.

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#2474

Post by OldAle1 » January 8th, 2020, 1:35 pm

Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:31 pm
I mean, consensus is the least interesting thing about critics anyway. I guess I don't share you guys' pessimism, I've found plenty of interesting critics to follow, and though they certainly do have the echo chamber issue of all talking about the same thing at one time, there are those who do go out of their way a bit more... maybe not as much as some users here, but where I'm at in my cinephilia, I find critics to mostly be a positive force if you pick the right ones for you.
:cheers:

though to be fair, there aren't any active critics that I'm actually following these days (I should find someone). But Rosenbaum remains a go-to guy for me when it comes to older stuff, and I certainly find a lot of value in David Bordwell, James Naremore and certain other academic critics when I take the time to read them.

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#2475

Post by cinephage » January 8th, 2020, 3:28 pm

Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:31 pm
I mean, consensus is the least interesting thing about critics anyway. I guess I don't share you guys' pessimism, I've found plenty of interesting critics to follow, and though they certainly do have the echo chamber issue of all talking about the same thing at one time, there are those who do go out of their way a bit more... maybe not as much as some users here, but where I'm at in my cinephilia, I find critics to mostly be a positive force if you pick the right ones for you.
I certainly agree. A critic I appreciate is not a critic whose taste I share, but a critic whose opinions and ideas are worth reading. I may disagree, but their point of view will bring new ideas on a film, they will challenge my view on cinema and broaden my vision of cinema.

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#2476

Post by maxwelldeux » January 8th, 2020, 5:51 pm

Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:13 am
Don't forget that "fresh" is a very low threshold for consensus: would you say critics were unanimous about Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood this year ? I sure wouldn't, and yet it's on this list.
I mean, I've taken to completely ignoring RT - it's a really good example of how NOT to treat your data. Lumping together a middling 6/10 review with an enthusiastic 10/10 review removes so much information that it's *almost* functionally useless.

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#2477

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » January 8th, 2020, 6:17 pm

Teproc wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:13 am
Well, I think it's not so much that critics have "less backbone" (whatever that's supposed to mean) as much as the date RT gets for current films is impossible to compare with what they get for older films, for obvious reasons. I assume the number of reviews is a factor in what gets on that list, and older films obviously can't compete since RT doesn't go back and use reviews from the day in their database.
That's certainly part of it, but it can't account for all of it since most of the films dropping were older films and there are only 7 films from 2009 to 2014 and only one film from 1983 to 2008. Their score adjustment is definitely too aggressive, but from looking at their yearly lists there are also a lot more 90+ consensus films the last few years than even the early 2010s.

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#2478

Post by Onderhond » January 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 5:51 pm
it's *almost* functionally useless.
It is to us, then again we aren't really the target audience of RT. It's for people who need a YES/NO answer to the question "should I go to this movie", so from that perspective it makes sense I guess.

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#2479

Post by joachimt » January 8th, 2020, 9:41 pm

Videogames are gone.
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#2480

Post by maxwelldeux » January 9th, 2020, 12:29 am

joachimt wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 9:41 pm
Videogames are gone.
I have too many tabs open to see the the thread this was posted in, and at first glance I thought that was a VERY bold statement to make out of the blue... :lol:

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