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Official lists updates

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Chilton
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Re: Official lists updates

#1921

Post by Chilton » April 1st, 2019, 9:44 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
March 28th, 2019, 7:57 pm
No idea. No formula changes that I know of and the obscurity level of the new entrants seems to match the list in general. Maybe it wasn't updated in a while?

That's not it. I have no clue. https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/thillu+mullu/ is a new entry with no new faves in a year.
Today it reverted back (sort of). Maybe it had something to do with the 'official lists' bug that was fixed? No clue :shrug:


Edit: I believe Thursday's list might have been identical to a previous one from let's say one year ago. Some of the entries that disappeared and now came back have gathered lots of their love in the last 12 months.

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#1922

Post by Harco » April 3rd, 2019, 11:45 am

Didn't know where to put it, and it's also not a First World problem, but the list description mentions "Lord of the Ring" instead of "Lord of the Rings":

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/hall ... countdown/

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#1923

Post by WalterNeff » April 3rd, 2019, 2:12 pm

Harco wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 11:45 am
Didn't know where to put it, and it's also not a First World problem, but the list description mentions "Lord of the Ring" instead of "Lord of the Rings":

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/hall ... countdown/
You're right - it's not a First World problem. It's a Middle Earth problem.

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#1924

Post by Harco » April 3rd, 2019, 6:34 pm

:o

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#1925

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 3rd, 2019, 6:37 pm

I fixed it.

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#1926

Post by joachimt » April 3rd, 2019, 6:51 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 6:37 pm
I fixed it.
I read the above posts a few hours ago and saw another moderator already posted here, so I assumed it was already fixed.
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#1927

Post by Simba63 » April 3rd, 2019, 7:12 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 2:12 pm
Harco wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 11:45 am
Didn't know where to put it, and it's also not a First World problem, but the list description mentions "Lord of the Ring" instead of "Lord of the Rings":

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/hall ... countdown/
You're right - it's not a First World problem. It's a Middle Earth problem.

Well played sir! :thumbsup:

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#1928

Post by maxwelldeux » April 8th, 2019, 10:02 pm

My obsessiveness won't let this go...

I've asked before, but I'll ask again - what's up with the A Personal Journey with Martin Scorsese Through American Movies list?

Here's why I'm asking:

- The list follows a personal list made on Mubi. This is the source listed at the bottom of the page, and the ICM list parallels that list exactly.
- There is also a Wikipedia source listed at the top of the page. This is not the same set of films.
- 97 films appear on both lists.
- 3 films appear on the Mubi list, but not Wikipedia.
- 14 films appear on the Wikipedia list, but not Mubi.

I want to reconcile the two, but don't know enough about the miniseries to make any sort of judgment call. Can anyone help? 100 just doesn't seem right.
On Mubi, Not WikiShow
Directed by John Ford
The Godfather
It's a Great Feeling
On Wiki, Not MubiShow
Apache, 1954, directed by Robert Aldrich
Blackboard Jungle, 1955, directed by Richard Brooks
Chesty: A Tribute to a Legend, 1971 documentary directed by John Ford
Heroes for Sale, 1933, directed by William Wellman
I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang, 1932, directed by Mervyn LeRoy
I Want to Live!, 1958 film noir directed by Robert Wise
New York, New York, 1977 musical directed by Martin Scorsese (film mentioned in connection with My Dream Is Yours)
Paths of Glory, 1957, directed by Stanley Kubrick
The Big Parade, 1925 silent film directed by King Vidor
The Girl Can't Help It, 1956 Musical film directed by Frank Tashlin
The Grapes of Wrath, 1940, directed by John Ford
The Wild One, 1953, Directed by László Benedek
The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, American television series from 4 March 1992 to 24 July 1993, created and executively produced by George Lucas, directed by various directors
Vertigo, 1958 psychological thriller film directed by Alfred Hitchcock

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#1929

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 8th, 2019, 10:08 pm

Fine I'll rewatch it and figure it out. I only specifically remember one movie Scorsese spoiled for me (Silver Lode). I feel like that wiki includes films mentioned in passing but I don't know.

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#1930

Post by Lilarcor » April 8th, 2019, 11:09 pm

I watched it a few months ago and I believe all of those films are mentioned... From both Mubi and wiki. He's definitely talking about some of those directors a lot (Ford, Tashlin, Vidor). Not 100% sure though.

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#1931

Post by maxwelldeux » April 8th, 2019, 11:18 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 10:08 pm
Fine I'll rewatch it and figure it out. I only specifically remember one movie Scorsese spoiled for me (Silver Lode). I feel like that wiki includes films mentioned in passing but I don't know.
Thanks - I have a 100m version of the doc available to me, so I'll watch it too and see what comes up. :thumbsup:

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#1932

Post by maxwelldeux » April 9th, 2019, 1:14 am

I just watched part three of A Personal Journey (the only part available from my library... wft?)...

There seem to be three types of films mentioned in the series, which is where the confusion is coming from:
1. Films listed onscreen with clips.
2. Films listed onscreen without clips (e.g., Apache, Blackboard Jungle)
3. Films mentioned verbally, but not shown onscreen (e.g., I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang)

Without having seen the first two parts, I'm not sure what is what. If I had to guess, Mubi list is #1, while the Wiki link is an incomplete version of #3 (leaning closer to #2).

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#1933

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 9th, 2019, 2:50 am

Finished episode 1, It's a Great Feeling, Directed by John Ford and The Godfather (only stills) are there. 40 movies in, all except one are one the current list. That one isn't on either list above (1928 MGM Studio Tour).

I'm going to finish because it's a great doc and I'm going to put the list in order of first appearance.

Edit: up to 74 in part 2. That young indiana jones thing is there.
maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 1:14 am
2. Films listed onscreen without clips (e.g., Apache, Blackboard Jungle)
Yeah these are just name drops, and they only happen in Ep3. I'm leaving them out as they currently are.

Edit: Done, there were three films on the list currently that shouldn't be there: Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Shadow of a Doubt, both shown only as title cards and not in-film clips, and Advise & Consent which is only name droped like Apache and Blackboard Jungle etc.

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#1934

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 9th, 2019, 5:15 am

I suppose including that Young Indiana Jones series will annoy people. I'd love to hear an argument to remove it, but I can't think of one.


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#1936

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 9th, 2019, 5:49 am

albajos wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 5:38 am
Other than it's probably not in the book?
https://www.amazon.com/Personal-Journey ... 0786863285
The source is the movie. I might be perhaps convinced the source should be the book instead, but I don't have the book so I can't say anything more about that.

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#1937

Post by maxwelldeux » April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am

Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:
Wikipedia list contains all films mentioned in the miniseries. [source]

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#1938

Post by albajos » April 9th, 2019, 6:17 am

He makes it very clear that thi sis a retrospective on american movies before he became an active director. So anything mentioned in passing after the fact are not part of this anyway.

Following the book there wont be any grey areas. Everything there is given the proper amount of space.

I would never use a doumentary for reference. Then you have to write down time codes for everything just to find it. In a book it's all already listed.

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#1939

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 9th, 2019, 6:20 am

maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am
Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:
Wikipedia list contains all films mentioned in the miniseries. [source]
I'll add something. I'm not sure the wiki list is even correct, though.
albajos wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:17 am
He makes it very clear that thi sis a retrospective on american movies before he became an active director. So anything mentioned in passing after the fact are not part of this anyway.

Following the book there wont be any grey areas. Everything there is given the proper amount of space.
He says that, but then he certainly talks a lot about Barry Lyndon. I've put in a request for the book, so we'll see.

Each of the post 1971 films is a capstone film:
The Godfather: gangsters
All That Jazz: Musicals
Unforgiven: Westerns
Indiana Jones TV series: special effects/illusions
Barry Lyndon: Iconoclasm

I don't know if/how they're represented in the book, but in the film they're each given a reasonable amount of weight.

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#1940

Post by maxwelldeux » April 9th, 2019, 6:28 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:20 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am
Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:
Wikipedia list contains all films mentioned in the miniseries. [source]
I'll add something. I'm not sure the wiki list is even correct, though.
Really, the footnote just needs to make it clear the Wiki source is not the official source - if that's clear, it's less important to me that Wiki is accurate. It also will eliminate me source of confusion.

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#1941

Post by Chilton » April 11th, 2019, 12:52 am

Five more for the TSPDT 1,000 Noir list, 200 to go!

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#1942

Post by WalterNeff » April 11th, 2019, 3:24 am

Chilton wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 12:52 am
Five more for the TSPDT 1,000 Noir list, 200 to go!
Uodated,

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#1943

Post by Tim2460 » April 11th, 2019, 8:46 am

Hello all.

A quick question about the Anthology Film Archive Films
Comment of the list here
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/anth ... =year&desc
says :
A very special series of films screened on a repertory basis, the Essential Cinema Repertory collection consists of 110 programs/330 titles assembled in 1970-75 by Anthology’s Film Selection Committee – James Broughton, Ken Kelman, Peter Kubelka, P. Adams Sitney, and Jonas Mekas. It was an ambitious attempt to define the art of cinema. The project was never completed but even in its unfinished state the series provides an uncompromising critical overview of cinema’s history.

Assembled in 70-75 ok...

But 2 or 3 films are above this release date on the list ?
Wrong year on the films themselfs ?
As
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/fro ... otebook+of.../
is also on an 21st century list ... i doubt it ,)

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#1944

Post by Ebbywebby » April 11th, 2019, 9:01 am

If you scroll down the page, it actually gives a 1971 release date for "From the Notebook Of." And Harry Smith's "Early Abstractions" date from 1956 and earlier. Not sure what's up with the 1978 Brakhage film, though.

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#1945

Post by Fergenaprido » April 11th, 2019, 9:59 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:01 am
If you scroll down the page, it actually gives a 1971 release date for "From the Notebook Of." And Harry Smith's "Early Abstractions" date from 1956 and earlier. Not sure what's up with the 1978 Brakhage film, though.
The Brakhage is a part 2. Part 1 is from 1967, so maybe they lumped the two together here on the list (perhaps mistakenly... if the list is indeed from 1975 and earlier, then part 2 shouldn't be on here).

For Notebook, there's this note on imdb too: "Originally completed in 1971 (when Beavers was 21) and re-edited in 1998." Someone added a release date in 1971 in Italy, but I don't know how factual that is.

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#1946

Post by Tim2460 » April 11th, 2019, 1:28 pm

All thoses remark makes sense...

Not a big deal anyway ;) I was just surprised seeing a Dead List being updated ,)

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#1947

Post by OttoElPiloto » April 11th, 2019, 3:30 pm

Fred Camper's Brakhage filmography, which I consider to be definitive, lists the full 23rd Psalm Branch with a date of 1966-67, with the two-part version being created later - Part 1 in 1979 and Part 2 in 1980. The earlier date makes sense because it's #23 of his Songs series, which was created from 1964-69. Anthology Film Archives goes with 1966 - they also list a running time of 95 minutes, which is presumably at 18 fps rather than 24.

Anthology has the dates of ca. 1946-57 for Harry Smith's Early Abstractions.

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#1948

Post by Nathan Treadway » April 11th, 2019, 7:14 pm

Why can't we find another avant garde list and just scrap the Anthology list? Wasn't that the niche it was trying to fill? So many problems, and really no easy solution.

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#1949

Post by zuma » April 11th, 2019, 7:21 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Why can't we find another avant garde list and just scrap the Anthology list? Wasn't that the niche it was trying to fill? So many problems, and really no easy solution.
Anthology Film Archives is a historic institute for experimental films in the US. I would be upset if it's list went away.

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#1950

Post by WalterNeff » April 11th, 2019, 8:40 pm

zuma wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 7:21 pm
Nathan Treadway wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Why can't we find another avant garde list and just scrap the Anthology list? Wasn't that the niche it was trying to fill? So many problems, and really no easy solution.
Anthology Film Archives is a historic institute for experimental films in the US. I would be upset if it's list went away.
+1
Considering that Jonas Mekas and Stan Brakage were among its founders, I don't think you are going to get any more avant garde or experimental than AFA.
http://anthologyfilmarchives.org/about/about

I will use my Security Council veto to block the removal or replacement of this list.

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#1951

Post by Nathan Treadway » April 11th, 2019, 9:11 pm

I understand what it's purpose it, and what it is. It just seems like there's a ton of problems and questions with what is or should be included in the list. Never mind that it's admittedly incomplete.

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#1952

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 11th, 2019, 9:14 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:11 pm
I understand what it's purpose it, and what it is. It just seems like there's a ton of problems and questions with what is or should be included in the list. Never mind that it's admittedly incomplete.
It's a bad list made by a good source with a good conception. It is not going to be unadopted without replacement and I find it incredibly unlikely that it gets replaced because I don't know what it could reasonably be replaced with.

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#1953

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 11th, 2019, 9:53 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:20 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am
Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:
Wikipedia list contains all films mentioned in the miniseries. [source]
I'll add something. I'm not sure the wiki list is even correct, though.
albajos wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:17 am
He makes it very clear that thi sis a retrospective on american movies before he became an active director. So anything mentioned in passing after the fact are not part of this anyway.

Following the book there wont be any grey areas. Everything there is given the proper amount of space.
He says that, but then he certainly talks a lot about Barry Lyndon. I've put in a request for the book, so we'll see.

Each of the post 1971 films is a capstone film:
The Godfather: gangsters
All That Jazz: Musicals
Unforgiven: Westerns
Indiana Jones TV series: special effects/illusions
Barry Lyndon: Iconoclasm

I don't know if/how they're represented in the book, but in the film they're each given a reasonable amount of weight.
I have the book. I don't have time at the moment, but from a quick glance:
Indiana Jones TV series is mentioned in the text.
It does not have images, but I'm not sure that's an appropriate cutoff.
There are 92 films in the filmography at the back. It includes All that Jazz, Unforgiven, and Barry Lyndon. Not Godfather, Indy TV, nor 1928 Studio tour. I don't know what the other missing films are.

I'm not immediately opposed to the book being the source, but I'm also not particularly convinced it should be. I can post some images later.

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#1954

Post by Nathan Treadway » April 11th, 2019, 10:28 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:53 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:20 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am
Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:

I'll add something. I'm not sure the wiki list is even correct, though.
albajos wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:17 am
He makes it very clear that thi sis a retrospective on american movies before he became an active director. So anything mentioned in passing after the fact are not part of this anyway.

Following the book there wont be any grey areas. Everything there is given the proper amount of space.
He says that, but then he certainly talks a lot about Barry Lyndon. I've put in a request for the book, so we'll see.

Each of the post 1971 films is a capstone film:
The Godfather: gangsters
All That Jazz: Musicals
Unforgiven: Westerns
Indiana Jones TV series: special effects/illusions
Barry Lyndon: Iconoclasm

I don't know if/how they're represented in the book, but in the film they're each given a reasonable amount of weight.
I have the book. I don't have time at the moment, but from a quick glance:
Indiana Jones TV series is mentioned in the text.
It does not have images, but I'm not sure that's an appropriate cutoff.
There are 92 films in the filmography at the back. It includes All that Jazz, Unforgiven, and Barry Lyndon. Not Godfather, Indy TV, nor 1928 Studio tour. I don't know what the other missing films are.

I'm not immediately opposed to the book being the source, but I'm also not particularly convinced it should be. I can post some images later.
I have the book somewhere, and I thought I had a list of the filmography. Now, I can't find the book, and evidently, I didn't make a list of the filmography.

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#1955

Post by beasterne » April 12th, 2019, 4:49 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:14 pm
Nathan Treadway wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:11 pm
I understand what it's purpose it, and what it is. It just seems like there's a ton of problems and questions with what is or should be included in the list. Never mind that it's admittedly incomplete.
It's a bad list made by a good source with a good conception. It is not going to be unadopted without replacement and I find it incredibly unlikely that it gets replaced because I don't know what it could reasonably be replaced with.
What about "Harvard University's Suggested Film Viewing List: Experimental/Avant-garde/Underground Films (2012)"?

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/harv ... 12/mjf314/

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#1956

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 12th, 2019, 4:57 pm

beasterne wrote:
April 12th, 2019, 4:49 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:14 pm
Nathan Treadway wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 9:11 pm
I understand what it's purpose it, and what it is. It just seems like there's a ton of problems and questions with what is or should be included in the list. Never mind that it's admittedly incomplete.
It's a bad list made by a good source with a good conception. It is not going to be unadopted without replacement and I find it incredibly unlikely that it gets replaced because I don't know what it could reasonably be replaced with.
What about "Harvard University's Suggested Film Viewing List: Experimental/Avant-garde/Underground Films (2012)"?

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/harv ... 12/mjf314/
As a stand alone adoption: Maybe, the fact that the source is gone and, unlike the other harvard lists, it was explicitly incomplete in the source is a bit of a mark against it. I'd really like a standalone well curated 100-150 film experimental list, this might be the closest but it's not really there. I was really hoping it would get there instead of being abandoned.

As a replacement: It's not really an improvement since it's also incomplete, the source isn't really better and it doesn't have the scope of the AFA, so I don't see it.

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#1957

Post by Ebbywebby » April 13th, 2019, 1:53 am

Adopting that list would resurrect the "Dog Star Man" problem again. Though adding more "experimental" official checks would benefit me like crazy.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/icm+ ... /joachimt/

If this list became official for some impossible reason, I'd gain about 550 checks overnight. ;)

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#1958

Post by Nathan Treadway » April 29th, 2019, 7:12 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:20 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:13 am
Can I propose adding a footnote to the list description, just to clear up any confusion? Something like:
Wikipedia list contains all films mentioned in the miniseries. [source]
I'll add something. I'm not sure the wiki list is even correct, though.
albajos wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 6:17 am
He makes it very clear that thi sis a retrospective on american movies before he became an active director. So anything mentioned in passing after the fact are not part of this anyway.

Following the book there wont be any grey areas. Everything there is given the proper amount of space.
He says that, but then he certainly talks a lot about Barry Lyndon. I've put in a request for the book, so we'll see.

Each of the post 1971 films is a capstone film:
The Godfather: gangsters
All That Jazz: Musicals
Unforgiven: Westerns
Indiana Jones TV series: special effects/illusions
Barry Lyndon: Iconoclasm

I don't know if/how they're represented in the book, but in the film they're each given a reasonable amount of weight.
I found my copy of the book, and made this list of all the films that are in the filmography of the book. All of them are already on the list. There's 7 films that are on the official list that aren't in the book.

-Cabiria
-1925 Studio Tour
-Gold Diggers of 1935
-It's a Great Feeling
-Directed by John Ford
-Godfather
-Young Indiana Jones

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#1959

Post by floma574 » May 3rd, 2019, 8:32 pm

Gundermann
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/gundermann/

just won the German Film Award (Lola) for Best Film.

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#1960

Post by brokenface » May 4th, 2019, 7:30 am

Come Back to the 5 & Dime Jimmy Dean needs to be added to Masters of Cinema, the other new announcements have been added already

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