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Official lists updates

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Fergenaprido
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Re: Official lists updates

#1681

Post by Fergenaprido » December 11th, 2018, 4:20 am

OttoElPiloto wrote:
December 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm
Here's the IA link: https://web.archive.org/web/20151208020 ... obodys.htm.
The section on the Gion Festival on this site actually lists the original title as Gion matsuri and links to the imdb page for the 1933 film. So messaging Bill may not be able to clarify things if indeed it is a lost film. You're probably better off trying to locate Sotto himself and ask him (if he's still alive).

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#1682

Post by flaiky » December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am

If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
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#1683

Post by sol » December 11th, 2018, 10:12 am

flaiky wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am
If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
No. He saw the film when it first came out since he's that much older than us all.

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#1684

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 11th, 2018, 5:56 pm

The section on the Gion Festival on this site actually lists the original title as Gion matsuri and links to the imdb page for the 1933 film. So messaging Bill may not be able to clarify things if indeed it is a lost film. You're probably better off trying to locate Sotto himself and ask him (if he's still alive).
There was a different lost film on an earlier version of the list, and when someone pointed that out to Bill, he removed it - see the note on this earlier version of the page from IA: https://web.archive.org/web/20120119184 ... obodys.htm . That is, the reason to contact Bill now would be to point out that "Gion matsuri" (1933) is also a lost film and should be removed from the list. Since the list is now defunct, it's kind of a moot point, except so far as the ICM official list is concerned.

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#1685

Post by Gershwin » December 11th, 2018, 6:25 pm

flaiky wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am
If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
:poshclap:
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#1686

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 11th, 2018, 6:43 pm

The National Film Registry will annouce the latest entries tomorrow. Curious/excited to see what the new "honorees" will be.

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#1687

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 11th, 2018, 9:23 pm

As additional evidence, here's the page from the Sato book cited by Wikipedia: https://ibb.co/P59hsfG. See the last paragraph on the page - the film is referred to as "The Festival of Gion" and is described as being lost. In fact, only a small handful of films survive out of the dozens that Mizoguchi made before about 1935.

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#1688

Post by Fergenaprido » December 12th, 2018, 4:38 am

OttoElPiloto wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 5:56 pm
The section on the Gion Festival on this site actually lists the original title as Gion matsuri and links to the imdb page for the 1933 film. So messaging Bill may not be able to clarify things if indeed it is a lost film. You're probably better off trying to locate Sotto himself and ask him (if he's still alive).
There was a different lost film on an earlier version of the list, and when someone pointed that out to Bill, he removed it - see the note on this earlier version of the page from IA: https://web.archive.org/web/20120119184 ... obodys.htm . That is, the reason to contact Bill now would be to point out that "Gion matsuri" (1933) is also a lost film and should be removed from the list. Since the list is now defunct, it's kind of a moot point, except so far as the ICM official list is concerned.
I don't dispute if the film was lost, I was seeking to clarify that it appears Sotto was indeed referring to the lost film, not the alternate one you proposed, unless Bill had gotten confused.
Having lost films on Official lists on iCM is not unheard of, and the simple fact that it's lost isn't enough to remove it from the list. Hence, since Bill doesn't seem to be invested in the list anymore, the best chance you have on getting the film removed or replaced would be to locate Sotto and ask him. That seems like a tall task, though, and may not result in any change to the list anyway.

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#1689

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » December 12th, 2018, 6:06 am

If the film is lost then Bill would have removed it liked the other two I notified him about. Not sure why I didn't flag this one as lost at the time. Doesn't matter if Sotto meant a different film or not. Either way it shouldn't have made it onto the list. Since the list is no longer maintained by TSPDT I don't see a point in contacting Bill about it. It's our decision to either follow the letter of the source and say no one noticed until now so it stays, or follow the spirit which was no lost films and remove it.

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#1690

Post by mjf314 » December 12th, 2018, 6:30 am

Why not replace it with the 1953 film? The most likely explanation is that Sotto wanted to vote for the 1953 film, and Bill had no way to know which film it was, so he guessed (incorrectly).

Sotto was born in 1950 in the Philippines, so it's unlikely that he watched the 1933 film.

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#1691

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » December 12th, 2018, 7:05 am

mjf314 wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 6:30 am
Why not replace it with the 1953 film? The most likely explanation is that Sotto wanted to vote for the 1953 film, and Bill had no way to know which film it was, so he guessed (incorrectly).

Sotto was born in 1950 in the Philippines, so it's unlikely that he watched the 1933 film.
Because the 1953 film had more than just that single ballot (It may even have been on the main TSPDT list)

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#1692

Post by mjf314 » December 12th, 2018, 7:14 am

In that case, just remove it.

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#1693

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 12th, 2018, 10:34 am


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#1694

Post by Lilarcor » December 12th, 2018, 2:08 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 10:34 am
2018 National Film Registry
Thanks! Loving the John Collins addition!

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#1695

Post by Timec » December 12th, 2018, 2:57 pm

I'm kind of shocked several of those movies - Rebecca, in particular - weren't in there already.

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#1696

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 12th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Timec wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 2:57 pm
I'm kind of shocked several of those movies - Rebecca, in particular - weren't in there already.
Likewise. It really should've been in the registry a long time ago (and was one of my submissions this year, the first time I did). Hitchcock's only best picture win, that happened to be his American debut? Yeah.

I was surprised Cinderella wasn't in as well...

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#1697

Post by WalterNeff » December 12th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Nice addition of film noir

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#1698

Post by Knaldskalle » December 12th, 2018, 4:12 pm

At least one of those new titles isn't on IMDb yet, so a complete list update at this point isn't possible.
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#1699

Post by WalterNeff » December 12th, 2018, 5:14 pm

One of the new additions to the National Film Registry List - Hair Piece: A Film for Nappy-Headed People - will be on TCM in the US tonight (12/12/18) at 8:00 PM

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#1700

Post by OldAle1 » December 12th, 2018, 5:39 pm

Something Good -- Negro Kiss has a date of 1903 on IMDb/ICM but is listed as 1898 on the LOC website and in the USC Archive - it's on Vimeo. I presume it's just a date error and IMDb isn't exactly reliable but...anybody know more about this?

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#1701

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 12th, 2018, 5:50 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:14 pm
One of the new additions to the National Film Registry List - Hair Piece: A Film for Nappy-Headed People - will be on TCM in the US tonight (12/12/18) at 8:00 PM
OttoElPiloto also posted a link.

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#1702

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 12th, 2018, 6:01 pm

All I can find on Dixon-Wanamaker film is https://www.si.edu/object/siris_arc_219032 This might be useful for adding to IMDb (although today's announcment shouldn't make it a problem). There's a couple clips on there, but I can't seem to get them to play. Not sure if this would work anyhow, as they are excerpts. Full footage is 26 minutes.

Girl Without a Soul is stored at George Eastman in New York. Don't know if there's any other copy anywhere else?

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#1703

Post by Simba63 » December 12th, 2018, 6:01 pm

WalterNeff wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:14 pm
One of the new additions to the National Film Registry List - Hair Piece: A Film for Nappy-Headed People - will be on TCM in the US tonight (12/12/18) at 8:00 PM
Thanks Walter, DVR now set. :D

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#1704

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 12th, 2018, 8:08 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:39 pm
Something Good -- Negro Kiss has a date of 1903 on IMDb/ICM but is listed as 1898 on the LOC website and in the USC Archive - it's on Vimeo. I presume it's just a date error and IMDb isn't exactly reliable but...anybody know more about this?
The 1898 date is based on recent research - you can read more about it here: https://news.uchicago.edu/story/silent- ... m-registry

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#1705

Post by OldAle1 » December 12th, 2018, 8:32 pm

OttoElPiloto wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 8:08 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:39 pm
Something Good -- Negro Kiss has a date of 1903 on IMDb/ICM but is listed as 1898 on the LOC website and in the USC Archive - it's on Vimeo. I presume it's just a date error and IMDb isn't exactly reliable but...anybody know more about this?
The 1898 date is based on recent research - you can read more about it here: https://news.uchicago.edu/story/silent- ... m-registry
Thank you! That was an excellent little article and really reminds me of just how important scholarship is when it comes to identifying and making public these earliest films.

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#1706

Post by blueboybob » December 12th, 2018, 8:42 pm

Simba63 wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 6:01 pm
WalterNeff wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:14 pm
One of the new additions to the National Film Registry List - Hair Piece: A Film for Nappy-Headed People - will be on TCM in the US tonight (12/12/18) at 8:00 PM
Thanks Walter, DVR now set. :D
Please upload and share after :)

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#1707

Post by blueboybob » December 12th, 2018, 8:44 pm

Anyone find Dixon-Wanamaker Expedition to Crow Agency?

https://www.si.edu/object/siris_arc_219032 I dont think that counts

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#1708

Post by Ebbywebby » December 12th, 2018, 8:52 pm

Wikipedia says The Girl Without a Soul is about 50 minutes long...other sites say 80 minutes...another says 69...IMDb doesn't know. Anyone?

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#1709

Post by joachimt » December 12th, 2018, 9:12 pm

Gershwin wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 6:25 pm
flaiky wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am
If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
:poshclap:
"I saw both this and the latter version which at the time went under the title 'The Day the Sun Rose' at the BFI in the early 80s as a double feature (I think it was 1983) - I can double check that date from my diary."
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#1710

Post by OldAle1 » December 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 9:12 pm
Gershwin wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 6:25 pm
flaiky wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am
If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
:poshclap:
"I saw both this and the latter version which at the time went under the title 'The Day the Sun Rose' at the BFI in the early 80s as a double feature (I think it was 1983) - I can double check that date from my diary."
Good enough for me! Now I'm just waiting for his comments on the full 42-reel Greed, and what it was like to watch Méliès work. I wonder if he's a music fan? I've always wondered who was the better pianist, Beethoven or Liszt?

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#1711

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 12th, 2018, 9:34 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 9:12 pm
Gershwin wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 6:25 pm
flaiky wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:03 am
If the film is lost, that's also more fuel for the argument that JamesCameronScholar is a lame fraud.
:poshclap:
"I saw both this and the latter version which at the time went under the title 'The Day the Sun Rose' at the BFI in the early 80s as a double feature (I think it was 1983) - I can double check that date from my diary."
Now we're getting somewhere! "The Day the Sun Rose" is an English title for a 1968 Japanese film titled "Gion matsuri" - the same as the 1933 Mizoguchi film. If I had to guess, I would say that the BFI screened "Gion bayashi" (1953) and "Gion matsuri" (1968), and not "Gion matsuri" (1933), which is a lost film and certainly would have already been lost in the early 80s.

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#1712

Post by Ebbywebby » December 14th, 2018, 5:16 am

Wow. Due to updates, "Isle of Dogs" is no longer an official check.

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#1713

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 14th, 2018, 5:42 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:16 am
Wow. Due to updates, "Isle of Dogs" is no longer an official check.
Coming soon to Criterion? They've released all the other Wes Anderson films, so, why not?

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#1714

Post by funkybusiness » December 14th, 2018, 5:55 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:42 am
Ebbywebby wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:16 am
Wow. Due to updates, "Isle of Dogs" is no longer an official check.
Coming soon to Criterion? They've released all the other Wes Anderson films, so, why not?
Probably soonTM rather than soon. There's been a four year delay on all Anderson Criterion releases post-Life Aquatic and that's probably the agreement Criterion/Anderson has with the original distributors.

Grand Budapest Hotel is almost guaranteed to be released first half of 2019.

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#1715

Post by Gorro » December 14th, 2018, 8:51 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:42 am
Ebbywebby wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:16 am
Wow. Due to updates, "Isle of Dogs" is no longer an official check.
Coming soon to Criterion? They've released all the other Wes Anderson films, so, why not?
It will also very likely show up in the 21st Century list from TSPDT in late february/march.

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#1716

Post by Ebbywebby » December 15th, 2018, 6:13 am

Another wow...with the new Criterion announcement, one of my shared "favorite unofficial checks" goes official: "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" (1978). Definitely a dark-horse pick for Criterion. While I get a kick out of the film, I'm not sure it's really begging for behind-the-scenes extras, fussing over a restoration, etc.

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#1717

Post by joachimt » December 16th, 2018, 3:48 pm

I just sent Bill some questions to clarify Gion matsuri. I'm pretty sure it should be removed, but maybe Bill knows by which title it should have been replaced if the list was still on his site.
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#1718

Post by joachimt » December 18th, 2018, 12:28 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 3:48 pm
I just sent Bill some questions to clarify Gion matsuri. I'm pretty sure it should be removed, but maybe Bill knows by which title it should have been replaced if the list was still on his site.
Bill wrote:Hi Joachim,

Cheers for your email.

It was confirmed to me by someone close to Mr. Sotto that his 1992 Sight
& Sound vote related to the 1953 version of Gion Bayashi. Therefore, I
have amended my records to reflect this.

No, on reflection, the 1933 version should not have been included on
"Ain't Nobody's Blues".

I have no idea which film I would have included instead - at that
particular time.

Ain't Nobody's Blues does not 'exist' anymore!!

I'd guess that half the films on that original list would no longer even
meet the criteria. That is, they have now accrued more than just one
vote.

Best regards (and thanks for your interest in TSPDT), Bill
I just removed it from the list.

I'll ask Bill if he is interested in doing a new version of the list. I think the list as it is now, doesn't make sense, because many titles don't meet the criteria anymore.
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#1719

Post by albajos » December 18th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Yes, as part of the TSPDT package it''s pointless if it's not updated alongside the others.

But if he wont maybe we can find a similar criteria somewhere else on the internets. Because the idea of the list is good.

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#1720

Post by beavis » December 18th, 2018, 12:40 pm

maybe we should remove it... :whistling: :guns: tehe

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