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Official lists updates

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Onderhond
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Re: Official lists updates

#1641

Post by Onderhond » November 28th, 2018, 10:37 am

These large changes are technical bugs related to the way these lists are generated by ICM as far as I understand, so that's not an IMDb issue. I also agree that a slower pace (not twice a week but twice a month) would be better.

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#1642

Post by Fergenaprido » November 28th, 2018, 11:13 am

Lakigigar wrote:
November 28th, 2018, 9:57 am
I've seen some on other forums complaining about the fluctuating lists too. I really don't think those separate IMDb lists are of any value, as they're just all already in the top 250 mostly. I don't think we need to give IMDb 40 separate lists, and they're now more of an annoyance than something else.
Onderhond wrote:
November 27th, 2018, 5:18 pm
Replacing "popular votes" lists with "curated entries" lists doesn't make sense. Like others said, they offer a different take on cinema and you can't just ditch one for the other without losing something in the process.

I actually kind of like the IMDb lists. They're volatile alright, but that's a plus because that way new films get dragged up all the time. There are definitely improvements possible, but that has mostly to do with genre labelling imo.
I don't think this is about volatility anymore. I like volatile lists, but this is extremely volatile. Like 36 movies got replaced in IMDb shorts top 50 list, because IMDb changes algorithms (or something like that). That's not a question of volatility anymore.
Some lists (like the 1990s, 2000s, Drama, and Thriller ones) definitely overlap almost 100% with the Top 250, but most others have little to no overlap (1910s, 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, Musical, Music, Sport), so I don't think your argument holds water there. I do see value in these imdb lists.

And, as Onderhond just mentioned, the recent change to the shorts list (where all 50 films got replaced, not 36), was not due to imdb changing anything, it was an error in the way that icm interacts with imdb (PA can explain, as I think he's the one who set everything up. Either him or mjf... I always get you two confused :blush: :whistling: )

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#1643

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 28th, 2018, 3:38 pm

I don't know about the flipped 1920s and shorts list, but the other fluctuations are all on imdb's end. ICM is just taking the lists as they are. I've clicked the source link and had the same score films change order on reload.

I would be supportive of changing the update frequency, I don't know about ditching the lists.

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#1644

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 29th, 2018, 5:56 am

i dont care much about those imdb lists but i dont mind chaos, each of the could be top-250 lists imo (except 10s) and maybe not be announced via icm but only once a month review or at least possibility to disable those notification (is there?)

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#1645

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 29th, 2018, 6:25 am

nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 5:56 am
at least possibility to disable those notification (is there?)
Yes, it's in the settings.

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#1646

Post by Ebbywebby » November 29th, 2018, 10:32 am

So the Shorts list is back to normal again.

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#1647

Post by ChrisReynolds » November 29th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Still big changes happening all the time in the other lists. I think IMDb is altering their algorithms to not compensate for the rating inflation of recent films anymore. A lot of the new entries come from the 2000s and 2010s, and the Action list in particular is about two-thirds made up of films from the last 20 years.

Maybe we should look again at changing these lists calculated purely from iCM data?

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#1648

Post by OldAle1 » November 29th, 2018, 4:02 pm

ChrisReynolds wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 3:52 pm
Still big changes happening all the time in the other lists. I think IMDb is altering their algorithms to not compensate for the rating inflation of recent films anymore. A lot of the new entries come from the 2000s and 2010s, and the Action list in particular is about two-thirds made up of films from the last 20 years.

Maybe we should look again at changing these lists calculated purely from iCM data?
Yep. Everything on the action list dating before 1985 has just dropped in rating (except one that stayed the same), and there are 11 new entries that all date from 2004 and later. Fuck old movies.

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#1649

Post by Teproc » November 29th, 2018, 4:46 pm

They didn't actually drop in rating, it's just that everything that's tied is ranked chronologically... and the order changes every update. It's been happening for about a month I think ?

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#1650

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 29th, 2018, 7:08 pm

The order changes every minute Click this: https://www.imdb.com/search/title?title ... ating,desc look at the bottom (with a bunch of ties) then reload the page. It'll randomly switch the ordering from increasing to decreasing chronological order.

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#1651

Post by Gershwin » November 29th, 2018, 7:27 pm

But why?
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#1652

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 29th, 2018, 11:28 pm

Gershwin wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 7:27 pm
But why?
Because imdb is mixing it up? I don't know. It might be that they think this is a "fair" way of sorting ties, or maybe they're in the middle of testing things. We'll need to wait a bit to see if it keeps doing this or if they change it again.

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#1653

Post by OldAle1 » November 29th, 2018, 11:33 pm

That's the kind of stupidity I've come to expect from IMDb over the 13 years I've been on the site. Always keeping expectations of competence and reliability at the very lowest level possible. Well done!

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#1654

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 30th, 2018, 6:46 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 6:25 am
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 5:56 am
at least possibility to disable those notification (is there?)
Yes, it's in the settings.
thanks
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#1655

Post by Ebbywebby » December 3rd, 2018, 3:39 am

I lost five checks with the latest set of list updates...wonder what went unofficial.

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#1656

Post by Fergenaprido » December 3rd, 2018, 5:03 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 3:39 am
I lost five checks with the latest set of list updates...wonder what went unofficial.
It seems a bunch of films this month when unofficial with all of the imdb changes. I watched 30 official films last month, but only had a net gain of 10 official checks.

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#1657

Post by max-scl » December 3rd, 2018, 7:02 pm

CAHIERS TOP TEN

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#1658

Post by beavis » December 3rd, 2018, 7:09 pm

eclectic selection as always. seen 5 of 10. Looking forward to that new Dumont!

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#1659

Post by joachimt » December 3rd, 2018, 7:13 pm

adding them now...
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#1660

Post by joachimt » December 3rd, 2018, 7:23 pm

One of those has 0 checks!
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#1661

Post by beavis » December 3rd, 2018, 7:28 pm

this doesn't even surprise me :D

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#1662

Post by Fergenaprido » December 4th, 2018, 3:11 am

Now that you've updated the list, could you please sort it properly and make it chronological instead of reverse chronological, like we do for every other Awards list?

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#1663

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 4th, 2018, 5:15 am

The Post?! Really?

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#1664

Post by Darth Nevets » December 4th, 2018, 6:40 am

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 5:15 am
The Post?! Really?
Praise be to auteur theory I suppose.

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#1665

Post by Tim2460 » December 4th, 2018, 2:50 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 5:15 am
The Post?! Really?
It's the one and only film i saw on that list ...

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#1666

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 4th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Tim2460 wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 2:50 pm
Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 5:15 am
The Post?! Really?
It's the one and only film i saw on that list ...
I've seen that and Phantom Thread. YAY me for chasing Oscars! Serisouly, I probably would've watched them at some point anyhow for Spielberg (yes) and Day-Lewis. I just thought that The Post wasn't really all that great, and wasn't really well recieved, despite the Best Picture nomination?

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#1667

Post by OldAle1 » December 4th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Cahiers has always had a weird relationship with American cinema though. I mean, if you look at their decade lists, Carlito's Way is tied for #1 of the 1990s, and War of the Worlds is in their top 10 for the 2000s. Not that I'm slamming those movies in particular (haven't seen the DePalma in fact), but I don't think you'd find much critical consensus placing them among the best of an entire decade of the cinema of the whole world. I'm sure other critical bodies would have similar strange biases as well, it's just that the Cahiers list is official so we all notice it.

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#1668

Post by Knaldskalle » December 5th, 2018, 4:44 am

OldAle1 wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 4:42 pm
Cahiers has always had a weird relationship with American cinema though. I mean, if you look at their decade lists, Carlito's Way is tied for #1 of the 1990s, and War of the Worlds is in their top 10 for the 2000s. Not that I'm slamming those movies in particular (haven't seen the DePalma in fact), but I don't think you'd find much critical consensus placing them among the best of an entire decade of the cinema of the whole world. I'm sure other critical bodies would have similar strange biases as well, it's just that the Cahiers list is official so we all notice it.
I saw Carlito's Way in theaters when it came out and I think it's an overlooked movie.
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#1669

Post by Tim2460 » December 5th, 2018, 10:08 am

OldAle1 wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 4:42 pm
Cahiers has always had a weird relationship with American cinema though. I mean, if you look at their decade lists, Carlito's Way is tied for #1 of the 1990s, and War of the Worlds is in their top 10 for the 2000s. Not that I'm slamming those movies in particular (haven't seen the DePalma in fact), but I don't think you'd find much critical consensus placing them among the best of an entire decade of the cinema of the whole world. I'm sure other critical bodies would have similar strange biases as well, it's just that the Cahiers list is official so we all notice it.
Hmmm : when was the last time you actually saw French People being consensual OldAle ? ;)

Here Cahier is really an elitist magazin...

Very Nouvelle Vague i guess and that was the highlight of the magazin, with film directors actually writting on the magazin.

Haven't buy an copy for years...

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#1670

Post by Fergenaprido » December 6th, 2018, 8:54 am

Looks like the imdb lists are sorting tied films not by year or popularity, but by id. 15 new entries each on 2000s and Romance right now (and likely others) confirm this. A very odd way of breaking ties.

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#1671

Post by ChrisReynolds » December 9th, 2018, 12:34 pm

The 100 Best British films list needs a slight update.
The source (https://www.timeout.com/london/film/100 ... tish-films) has been updated so that God's Own Country (2017) replaces I'm All Right Jack (1959), and Dunkirk (2017) replaces School for Scoundrels (1960).

This is Time Out's way of enusring that their lists look current without doing a new poll: They repoll a few people or add a few new ballots until some recent films have enough votes to get into the bottom of the list.

School for Scoundrels (1960) loses official status.

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#1672

Post by sol » December 9th, 2018, 1:03 pm

ChrisReynolds wrote:
December 9th, 2018, 12:34 pm
School for Scoundrels (1960) loses official status.
:down: And to make room for Dunkirk!

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of the Nolan film...
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#1673

Post by joachimt » December 9th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Working on it......
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#1674

Post by joachimt » December 9th, 2018, 7:33 pm

done
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#1675

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm

Should Gion matsuri really be included as an official check from the Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own list? According to Wikipedia, which cites Tadao Sato's book, this is a lost film. The film is included on the "Nobody's Blues" list based on Agustin L. Sotto's ballot for the 1992 Sight & Sound poll. I checked a copy of the issue, which lists the film as "Gion Festival", with no date. I have to assume the critic was referring to Mizoguchi's "Gion Bayashi" from 1953, sometimes referred to by the English title "Gion Festival Music", unless he somehow had access to a film that had presumably been lost for decades at that point.

Furthermore, Bill Georgaris, the creator of the Nobody's Blues list, had previously removed a film from the list when it was pointed out that it was lost. I would email him about this, but he seems to have abandoned this list - it's now just a dead link and can only be accessed through the Internet Archive.

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that this film should not be an official check.

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#1676

Post by joachimt » December 10th, 2018, 8:06 pm

You could still ask Bill about this (or I can do it). Although Bill doesn't maintain this list anymore and it's even a dead link, he might shed some light on this.

Can you link me to the list on the internet archive?
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#1678

Post by joachimt » December 10th, 2018, 8:40 pm

OttoElPiloto wrote:
December 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
I checked a copy of the issue, which lists the film as "Gion Festival", with no date.
Trying to double check. Can you link me to this?
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#1679

Post by OttoElPiloto » December 10th, 2018, 8:55 pm

Here you go: https://i.ibb.co/fqt9pcZ/Sotto.png

That's an image of the page from an online database. The ballot in question is in the upper right-hand corner.

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#1680

Post by joachimt » December 10th, 2018, 9:09 pm

Thanks. I'll look into the matter later this week.
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