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Official lists updates

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Fergenaprido
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Re: Official lists updates

#1561

Post by Fergenaprido » November 22nd, 2018, 6:26 am

FYI, the threshold for the Top 250 of imdb is 25,000 votes. The threshold for the Top 250 of Letterboxd is 1,000 views non-existent.
Last edited by Fergenaprido on November 22nd, 2018, 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#1562

Post by Onderhond » November 22nd, 2018, 6:46 am

joachimt wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 6:09 pm
I just updated FOK. We decided to keep it as a top 250. The cutoff for 250 wasn't too low.
Great! Glad I took the time to vote there, some personal favorites finally became official.

As for the Letterboxd list, I really don't see the point. It gets slightly more interesting past the 220 point, but it's just the same titles rehashed in a different order. Sure enough, it's not as commercial as the IMDb top 250, but the new titles are simply arthouse favorites that already seem to have 10+ official checks here.

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#1563

Post by fear of 13 » November 22nd, 2018, 7:25 am

Agreed with everything mentioned above.

The Letterboxd Top 250 is more interesting than the IMDB Top 250 but it's not really that unique a selection of movies.

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#1564

Post by Gorro » November 22nd, 2018, 7:52 am

Onderhond wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:46 am
joachimt wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 6:09 pm
I just updated FOK. We decided to keep it as a top 250. The cutoff for 250 wasn't too low.
Great! Glad I took the time to vote there, some personal favorites finally became official.
I watched Helter Skelter and Dead Leaves yesterday and had a great time. Especially Helter Skelter was really great (although a little bit too long) and I wouldn't have watched it anytime soon if it wasn't on this list. Only need to watch Vinyan now to get my platinum back.

Also glad that Reconstruction is finally an official check. I used to vote for that movie as well, but it just dropped out of my top 100 (currently #119).

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#1565

Post by flaiky » November 22nd, 2018, 9:57 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:26 am
FYI, the threshold for the Top 250 of imdb is 25,000 votes. The threshold for the Top 250 of Letterboxd is 1,000 views.
I actually asked about the threshold very recently (a few weeks ago) and was told 'There isn't one, but our weighted average penalises films with less votes.'
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#1566

Post by Fergenaprido » November 22nd, 2018, 10:51 am

flaiky wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 9:57 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:26 am
FYI, the threshold for the Top 250 of imdb is 25,000 votes. The threshold for the Top 250 of Letterboxd is 1,000 views.
I actually asked about the threshold very recently (a few weeks ago) and was told 'There isn't one, but our weighted average penalises films with less votes.'
Ack! You're right. I got it confused the the "official" top 100 documentaries list, which has the 1,000 view threshold.

There doesn't seem to be a way to sort by # of views in Letterboxd, but after sorting by popularity and checking things out, the least seen film on the list appears to be La Commune (Paris, 1871) with 580 views coming in at #218. Nothing else I checked had less than 1.4K views.

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#1567

Post by Lakigigar » November 22nd, 2018, 10:53 am

I'm at 139/250 for the Fok! top 250. I was at 140, but i watched Léon and Into The Wild (two movies on my "shame list"), and went back to 139. And i'll watch Reservoir Dogs probably tomorrow, so i'll be back at 140. I'm a bit surprised i didn't lose that many checks in the Fok! top 250 though, but it's partly because some of my favourites made it in.

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#1568

Post by Fergenaprido » November 22nd, 2018, 10:57 am

Lakigigar wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 10:53 am
I'm at 139/250 for the Fok! top 250. I was at 140, but i watched Léon and Into The Wild (two movies on my "shame list"), and went back to 139. And i'll watch Reservoir Dogs probably tomorrow, so i'll be back at 140. I'm a bit surprised i didn't lose that many checks in the Fok! top 250 though, but it's partly because some of my favourites made it in.
What is your "shame list"? Films you're ashamed to have seen (and liked), films you're ashamed to not yet have seen, or something else?

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#1569

Post by Lakigigar » November 22nd, 2018, 10:58 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 10:57 am
Lakigigar wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 10:53 am
I'm at 139/250 for the Fok! top 250. I was at 140, but i watched Léon and Into The Wild (two movies on my "shame list"), and went back to 139. And i'll watch Reservoir Dogs probably tomorrow, so i'll be back at 140. I'm a bit surprised i didn't lose that many checks in the Fok! top 250 though, but it's partly because some of my favourites made it in.
What is your "shame list"? Films you're ashamed to have seen (and liked), films you're ashamed to not yet have seen, or something else?
Films i'm ashamed of that i haven't seen yet. I went from 140 to 137 and watched in the meantime those two movies and went up to 139.

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#1570

Post by xianjiro » November 22nd, 2018, 6:14 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:26 am
FYI, the threshold for the Top 250 of imdb is 25,000 votes. The threshold for the Top 250 of Letterboxd is 1,000 views non-existent.
really? isn't at least one vote necessary? (D:)

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#1571

Post by joachimt » November 22nd, 2018, 6:15 pm

Onderhond wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:46 am
joachimt wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 6:09 pm
I just updated FOK. We decided to keep it as a top 250. The cutoff for 250 wasn't too low.
Great! Glad I took the time to vote there, some personal favorites finally became official.
There are also three Harry Potter films entering the list. Your work? tehe
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#1572

Post by OldAle1 » November 22nd, 2018, 6:19 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:15 pm

There are also three Harry Potter films entering the list.
BLLEEECCH

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#1573

Post by Onderhond » November 22nd, 2018, 8:30 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:15 pm
Onderhond wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:46 am
joachimt wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 6:09 pm
I just updated FOK. We decided to keep it as a top 250. The cutoff for 250 wasn't too low.
Great! Glad I took the time to vote there, some personal favorites finally became official.
There are also three Harry Potter films entering the list. Your work? tehe
Of course, can't be too obvious about it!

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#1574

Post by Lakigigar » November 23rd, 2018, 8:50 am

Like Me

It was close, but this movie with only 23 checks on ICM almost made it. It's 287th on the Fok! list. Imagine if it did made it in.

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#1575

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 7:49 am

Lakigigar wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 4:25 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 3:30 pm
Lakigigar wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 2:28 pm


Because the letterboxd top 250 has more arthouse and more classic movies in it's top list than the reddit one which is more mainstream and contemporary? Why does every list have to be oriented towards arthouse and classic cinema?
hmm not sure what you mean, why limit possibly one of the more interesting lists because its not mainstream?
is there a list for reddit top-1000? top-250 seems so vanilla so maybe there could be something interesting, or random fluff
But why does everything have to be "not-mainstream". Like why should a list of not-mainstream movies be preferred over a list of mainstream movies. You might be steered towards mainstream movies, but does this mean that everyone should be. Why is a top list suddenly more beautiful when it doesn't contain as many non-mainstream movies than others. Is it something we necessarily have to strive for? Personal taste # what's best.
im for mainstream lists too and i like plenty of mainstream movies and if they are nice movies they dont make list worse at all. i would like extending imdb 250 to 1000 and so on. im just wondering whats at ~#500 and #1000 on reddits lists to get an idea, because isnt top-250 pretty much imdb top250 minus indian movies. what lists would you like to see added or extended?

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#1576

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 7:55 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:37 am
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 3:30 pm
Lakigigar wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 2:28 pm


Because the letterboxd top 250 has more arthouse and more classic movies in it's top list than the reddit one which is more mainstream and contemporary? Why does every list have to be oriented towards arthouse and classic cinema?
hmm not sure what you mean, why limit possibly one of the more interesting lists because its not mainstream?
is there a list for reddit top-1000? top-250 seems so vanilla so maybe there could be something interesting, or random fluff
I don't think the mods in the Reddit thread make public anything beyond the top 250. For Letterboxd, the guy has his long list, but only makes public the Top 250. You can browse LB by rating here: https://letterboxd.com/films/by/rating/ which is essentially the source of the Top 250 (with a filter to exclude docs, shorts, etc. and a minimum threshold of views), if you want to explore beyond the top 250 films.
thanks, could their imdb links be imported somehow?
too bad, would be more interesting. would be interesting to have separate top lists with docs and shorts included too. whats the minimum threshold of ciews?

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#1577

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 7:57 am

Lakigigar wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 3:24 am
'
I'm also not opposed to a letterboxd top 250, but i've just said that a list isn't better than another list just because it's less mainstream, because that's just a preference. And I don't think it deserves a top 500 or top 1000. If you do that, you can also make the IMDb top 1000 official.
so whats wrong with making both top-1000 official?

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#1578

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 7:58 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 6:26 am
FYI, the threshold for the Top 250 of imdb is 25,000 votes. The threshold for the Top 250 of Letterboxd is 1,000 views non-existent.
1000 is more than reddits 250# (or even 100#) gets tho or is it?

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#1579

Post by Fergenaprido » November 24th, 2018, 11:46 am

nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 7:57 am
Lakigigar wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 3:24 am
'
I'm also not opposed to a letterboxd top 250, but i've just said that a list isn't better than another list just because it's less mainstream, because that's just a preference. And I don't think it deserves a top 500 or top 1000. If you do that, you can also make the IMDb top 1000 official.
so whats wrong with making both top-1000 official?
I think the standard on icm is that we follow the source in most cases. If Reddit publishes a top 250, that's what we put. If they increase it to a top 500, then we would too.

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#1580

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 11:52 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 11:46 am
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 7:57 am
Lakigigar wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 3:24 am
'
I'm also not opposed to a letterboxd top 250, but i've just said that a list isn't better than another list just because it's less mainstream, because that's just a preference. And I don't think it deserves a top 500 or top 1000. If you do that, you can also make the IMDb top 1000 official.
so whats wrong with making both top-1000 official?
I think the standard on icm is that we follow the source in most cases. If Reddit publishes a top 250, that's what we put. If they increase it to a top 500, then we would too.
i meant imdb and letterbox top-1000 here (the latter could be updated once a year)

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#1581

Post by albajos » November 24th, 2018, 12:05 pm

nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 11:52 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 11:46 am
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 7:57 am

so whats wrong with making both top-1000 official?
I think the standard on icm is that we follow the source in most cases. If Reddit publishes a top 250, that's what we put. If they increase it to a top 500, then we would too.
i meant imdb and letterbox top-1000 here (the latter could be updated once a year)
Still only the top 250 are official with direct links on those sites.

As these lists are user-generated they are extremely uninteresting. Regardless of long they are expanded the US focus will be overblown.

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#1582

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 12:14 pm

albajos wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 12:05 pm
nimimerkillinen wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 11:52 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 11:46 am
I think the standard on icm is that we follow the source in most cases. If Reddit publishes a top 250, that's what we put. If they increase it to a top 500, then we would too.
i meant imdb and letterbox top-1000 here (the latter could be updated once a year)
Still only the top 250 are official with direct links on those sites.

As these lists are user-generated they are extremely uninteresting. Regardless of long they are expanded the US focus will be overblown.
did you look letterbox top-1000?

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#1583

Post by Lakigigar » November 24th, 2018, 2:07 pm

What about making the MovieMeter top 1000 official. It's being held every two years, and it has a good mix of recent, classic, Asian and arthouse movies, and offer something new to other lists, and has almost 70 participants (and more to be expected in 2019).

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/movi ... hn+milton/
Just as in 2013 and 2015, users of the Dutch/Belgian site MovieMeter.nl sent in a ranked list of their 250-500 favorite movies. There were 63 contributors this year and their lists led to this top 1000. All credits go to 2013's initiator The One Ring, 2015's organizer beavis and this year's volunteer Film Pegasus.
And of course the ICM top 1000 could become official too (but i think it's already going to be official, as people voted for it by a lot).

And what potentially could be done is an ICM / MM top 1000 collab, cause i think the MM top 1000 is influenced by the ICM top 1000, and it could have like 150 participants (there are some people who participate in both editions like Beavis, John Milton, joachimt and so on), but such a collab would create a great toplist, i think (there would even be a reason to present the top 1001-2000 too, and it could offer some new recommendations to some users? And a top list of 150 participants (all people with a specific and clear interest oriented on film cinema) would be sufficient enough to grant an official status?

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#1584

Post by nimimerkillinen » November 24th, 2018, 3:04 pm

+1 for those, never looked at MM lists but theres couple of dozen of films i hadnt heard of, so nice
letterboxes top-1000 would give new official stuff too, could be even top-2500 there too imo
and RateYourMusics top-lists would be good too, both normal and esoteric versions. there probably isnt a icm or imdb list for either since it changes so often?

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#1585

Post by beavis » November 24th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Not sure if this is a discussion for this thread
But before everybody is getting excited about a top list of film forum/community "x", and the possibility of it becoming official, it is good to keep in mind how large their userbase is relation to the ICM userbase. mjf314 once wrote "why not adopt the Douban top 250? It’s probably the 2nd most popular movie list in the world (in terms of number of voters)", but how many members of the Douban community use ICM? Nobody has even hinted for that 250 as a possible suggestion for adoption on ICM. As for MovieMeter, both ICM and MM are Dutch websites in origin and there is a very small cross-over of users. But on a global scale I'm afraid to say, as a proud member of both communities, that MM doesn't have any impact outside of the Benelux (because of the language barrier alone), which is the other thing to consider.

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#1586

Post by mjf314 » November 25th, 2018, 2:24 am

beavis wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 3:36 pm
but how many members of the Douban community use ICM? Nobody has even hinted for that 250 as a possible suggestion for adoption on ICM.
No one asked for the IMDb top 250 to become official, but making it official attracted people to iCM because it was already a popular list.

I'm not sure if the same thing would happen with Douban. Are Douban users willing to register for an English-language site? Are there Chinese movie forums where people can talk about the iCM list? I know you can talk about specific movies on Douban, but I'm not sure if they have a forum for general film discussion. I'm also not sure how many people actually work on the Douban top 250 (even if a lot of people rate movies on Douban, it doesn't mean they pay attention to the top 250).

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#1587

Post by Fergenaprido » November 25th, 2018, 4:34 am

Are we talking about this list: https://movie.douban.com/top250 ?
If so, that's rather eclectic. Just looking at the top 25 alone there are a bunch of films I never would have expected to be in the top 250.

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#1588

Post by mjf314 » November 25th, 2018, 5:23 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 4:34 am
Are we talking about this list: https://movie.douban.com/top250 ?
If so, that's rather eclectic. Just looking at the top 25 alone there are a bunch of films I never would have expected to be in the top 250.
Yes, that's the list.

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#1589

Post by joachimt » November 25th, 2018, 7:50 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 4:34 am
Are we talking about this list: https://movie.douban.com/top250 ?
If so, that's rather eclectic. Just looking at the top 25 alone there are a bunch of films I never would have expected to be in the top 250.
That page doesn't load for me. Am I the only one with that problem?
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#1590

Post by Gershwin » November 25th, 2018, 7:57 am

joachimt wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 7:50 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 4:34 am
Are we talking about this list: https://movie.douban.com/top250 ?
If so, that's rather eclectic. Just looking at the top 25 alone there are a bunch of films I never would have expected to be in the top 250.
That page doesn't load for me. Am I the only one with that problem?
It works fine here.
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#1591

Post by joachimt » November 25th, 2018, 12:07 pm

Gershwin wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 7:57 am
joachimt wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 7:50 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 4:34 am
Are we talking about this list: https://movie.douban.com/top250 ?
If so, that's rather eclectic. Just looking at the top 25 alone there are a bunch of films I never would have expected to be in the top 250.
That page doesn't load for me. Am I the only one with that problem?
It works fine here.
Had to turn off VPN to see the page.
Really weird toplist.
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#1592

Post by Onderhond » November 25th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Don't see what makes this list weirder than the IMDb list. I would applaud getting some more non-Western perspectives on cinema, regardless of whether this attracts new people to ICM.

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#1593

Post by joachimt » November 25th, 2018, 12:37 pm

Onderhond wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 12:25 pm
Don't see what makes this list weirder than the IMDb list. I would applaud getting some more non-Western perspectives on cinema, regardless of whether this attracts new people to ICM.
For example, how can a movie like Hachi be so popular to be regarded as one of the best movies ever made? I find that a lot more surprising than a high ranking of The Dark Knight.
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#1594

Post by Lakigigar » November 25th, 2018, 1:49 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 12:37 pm
Onderhond wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 12:25 pm
Don't see what makes this list weirder than the IMDb list. I would applaud getting some more non-Western perspectives on cinema, regardless of whether this attracts new people to ICM.
For example, how can a movie like Hachi be so popular to be regarded as one of the best movies ever made? I find that a lot more surprising than a high ranking of The Dark Knight.
The best movie ever made # what is popular or what many people like.
And in my case i'm not interested in both. I mean, i prefer movies that i like most, not what other or critics like. I might like some movies that others like, and that some critics like, but i might not like them after all, and i'm fine with that. I'm not watching a movie in that perspective. If i don't like a movie, i won't like it, even if it could be well made. And if a movie that i like isn't well made i'll like it (but i won't give them a 8, 9 or 10).
Onderhond wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 12:25 pm
Don't see what makes this list weirder than the IMDb list. I would applaud getting some more non-Western perspectives on cinema, regardless of whether this attracts new people to ICM.
I second that.

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#1595

Post by albajos » November 25th, 2018, 2:31 pm

The IMDB list has a userbase of 83 million. All other lists will be weirder than that.

But I don't see why imdb is a topic here. Either a list can stand on it's own merit, or it can not. But you need quite many users to make a user-generated list noteworthy.

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#1596

Post by Lakigigar » November 25th, 2018, 2:52 pm

albajos wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 2:31 pm
The IMDB list has a userbase of 83 million. All other lists will be weirder than that.

But I don't see why imdb is a topic here. Either a list can stand on it's own merit, or it can not. But you need quite many users to make a user-generated list noteworthy.
The current fok! top 250 has 36 participants. The filmtotaal lists won't have many participants either. And i don't see why we couldn't add more user-generated lists instead of just the same critics lists over & over again, but in a more varied way (basically like what Onderhond says).

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#1597

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 25th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 2:52 pm
albajos wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 2:31 pm
The IMDB list has a userbase of 83 million. All other lists will be weirder than that.

But I don't see why imdb is a topic here. Either a list can stand on it's own merit, or it can not. But you need quite many users to make a user-generated list noteworthy.
The current fok! top 250 has 36 participants. The filmtotaal lists won't have many participants either. And i don't see why we couldn't add more user-generated lists instead of just the same critics lists over & over again, but in a more varied way (basically like what Onderhond says).
Neither of those lists would be adopted now as new lists on an established site. They were inaugural lists as a token of thanks when the site started.

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#1598

Post by Onderhond » November 25th, 2018, 4:48 pm

joachimt wrote:
November 25th, 2018, 12:37 pm
For example, how can a movie like Hachi be so popular to be regarded as one of the best movies ever made? I find that a lot more surprising than a high ranking of The Dark Knight.
I rated Hachi 2.5/5 (the original 3.0/5), The Dark Knight 0.5/5, so yeah.

Anyway, IMDb Top 250 is full of crap that doesn't belong. The Usual Suspects, The Intouchables, The Departed, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, those horrible Leone Westerns etc etc etc. We're used to seeing those titles because we like our Western bubble, but putting those in a top 250 best ever is just crazy talk. For that reason alone, fresh perspectives should be welcomed.

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#1599

Post by Gershwin » November 25th, 2018, 5:19 pm

I'd have agreed if you hadn't mentioned Leone.
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#1600

Post by joachimt » November 25th, 2018, 5:43 pm

I completely disagree with Onderhond, simply because he looks at it from a personal perspective. There are lots of movies on IMDb's Top 250 that I wouldn't put in a personal top 1000, but most of those movies are not a big surprise to me that they appeal to a large audience who are quickly giving stuff like that high ratings.
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