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Official lists updates

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#4081

Post by sol »

Yeah, that's confusing, though I think encyclopedia.com still has incorrect/misprinted.

Another source: http://www.bogazicifilmfestivali.com/en/haber-detay/89
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#4082

Post by Fergenaprido »

sol wrote: April 25th, 2021, 6:52 am Yeah, that's confusing, though I think encyclopedia.com still has incorrect/misprinted.

Another source: http://www.bogazicifilmfestivali.com/en/haber-detay/89
That's legit. I can work with that. :thumbsup:

I also found this article: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/m ... story.html
2. Robert Redford is not the founder! The Utah/US Film Festival was founded in 1978 by Sterling van Wegener--a Bringham Young University film school grad and John Earle, the Utah State film commissioner. Redford, who was then married to van Wegener’s cousin, agreed to be the festival board’s first chairman.

...

5. The Sundance Institute (created by Redford in 1981) took over running the Utah film festival in 1985 because the festival needed year round support (and fundraising!)

6. The festival has had several name changes over the years. It was called the United States Film Festival from 1985-1989, The Sundance United States Film Festival in 1990 and eventually became the Sundance Film Festival in 1991.

7. The Coen brothers’ debut film “Blood Simple” was the first film to win the Grand Jury Award for dramatic film after the name change in 1985 after the Sundance Institute took over the festival.
That's probably why Blood Simple was the first on our list originally.
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#4083

Post by Fergenaprido »

flavo5000 wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 3:00 pm Ok, so I've skimmed through the book and wanted to summarize what I think should be the proposed updates to the Asian Cinema list:
[*]Add Cowboy Bebop (1998) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213338/)
It's in the index and given a paragraph in the book like many of the films already in the list.
[*]Add Godzilla (1954) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047034/)
In the index and given it's own mini-section
[*]Remove Gumnam (1954) and add Gumnaam (1965) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247394/
I think this was just a simple case of adding the wrong movie.
[*]Add Kashmir Ki Kali (1964) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058257/
In the index and also discussed in a special section dedicated to actress Sharmila Tagore
[*]Add Memoirs of a Geisha https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0397535/
In the index and mentioned in two separate special sections discussing the actors Gong Li and Koji Yakusho
[*]Bu jian a.k.a. The Missing (2003) https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/bu+jian/
Not in the index but is discussed in a special section on Lee Kang-Sheng and given more of a write-up that some films on the list and in the index.

Iffy on these:
[*]Inuyasha (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290223/)
It is in the index but is only mentioned in passing as a TV series for children. "Even series aimed at kids, like Inuyasha, feature labyrinthine plots that confound their elders."
[*]Green Hornet TV series (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059991/)
Also in the index but also just mentioned in passing in the section discussing Bruce Lee's career.
[*] Ringu: Final Chapter (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235134/)
Not in the index but mention in the same section as the other Ringu sequels that are in the list
[*}Confession of Pain https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0834902/
Not in the index but briefly discussed in the section talking about Infernal Affairs
Thanks again for all of your work going through the book flavo!

I’ve updated the Asian Field Guide list.

Summary:
Added Cowboy Bebop, Godzilla, and Kashmir Ki Kali.
Replaced Gumnam with Gumnaam.
Rearraged a few Japanese films that were tacked on at the end of that section.

I didn’t add Memoirs of a Geisha or Green Hornet since those are just referencing American productions and not actually being utilized as examples of Asian cinema.
I didn’t add Inuyasha because it’s just mentioned in passing.
I didn’t add The Missing or Confession of Pain because they’re not in the index and aren’t being utilized as examples of Asian cinema.
I didn’t add Ringu: Final Chapter because it’s not in the book (I've got a pdf version of the book now, and I double-checked and couldn't find that film anywhere).

Edit: Actually, added one more: The Thirsty Ones (1972) - It's listed as missing on the imdb list, but I found it so I've added it too. Both of Iraq's mentioned movies are now in the list. You can update your list if you want, Melvelet.
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#4084

Post by Torgo »

Thanks for the update, Ferg :sweat: Those sound like reasonable decisions.

Fergenaprido wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:22 pm
Torgo wrote: March 18th, 2021, 2:13 pm The long-hyped Snyder Cut of Justice League has finally been released today and starts to an impressive (and of course ridiculous) 8.9 at 11k votes on IMDb. It should enter the Top 250 by tonight, but has just about missed the ICM update cycle. Bets are on if it will still become a new official check by Monday. ;)
It's now entered the Top 250 at #117 with a weighted rating of 8.2 (compared to a raw rating of 8.8 on the film page). It will fall off the list eventually, but I think the speed at which it does depends on how many non-fans feel like dedicating 4 hours of their life to see a different version of a film they probably already saw and thought was just okay (or worse). :D Could be out before the end of the month, though.
.. aand, 6 weeks later, ZSJL has left the Top 250, a fast plunge after a phenomenal start.
Users who are sad to see it become unofficial so fast: You won't have to grieve for too long, it's at 1240 checks now, easily will have 1500 checks by summer and then return for the genre lists ... and even the 2020 decade list .. in a while. :ph43r:
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#4085

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: April 27th, 2021, 4:26 am Thanks for the update, Ferg :sweat: Those sound like reasonable decisions.

Fergenaprido wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:22 pm
Torgo wrote: March 18th, 2021, 2:13 pm The long-hyped Snyder Cut of Justice League has finally been released today and starts to an impressive (and of course ridiculous) 8.9 at 11k votes on IMDb. It should enter the Top 250 by tonight, but has just about missed the ICM update cycle. Bets are on if it will still become a new official check by Monday. ;)
It's now entered the Top 250 at #117 with a weighted rating of 8.2 (compared to a raw rating of 8.8 on the film page). It will fall off the list eventually, but I think the speed at which it does depends on how many non-fans feel like dedicating 4 hours of their life to see a different version of a film they probably already saw and thought was just okay (or worse). :D Could be out before the end of the month, though.
.. aand, 6 weeks later, ZSJL has left the Top 250, a fast plunge after a phenomenal start.
Users who are sad to see it become unofficial so fast: You won't have to grieve for too long, it's at 1240 checks now, easily will have 1500 checks by summer and then return for the genre lists ... and even the 2020 decade list .. in a while. :ph43r:
Yep.

In other Top 250 news...
... The Father debuted at #150 two weeks ago and is slowly climbing. It's the only 2020 BP Oscar nom in the list... I wonder where it will end up.
... Tarkovsky's Offret failed to make the cut after crossing the threshold, and now Nostalgia is 1000 votes away as well. Both are rated 8.1, so I suspect Nostalgia will also miss the list.
... Ratsasan is also falling quickly, and will be out in a week or two at the most.
... Soul should follow it out of the list within a month or two I think, though it's decline has slowed down. Not sure if it's Oscar wins will help it or hinder it (Trivia: all four of Pete Docter's films are currently in the Top 250).
... Anand is still dropping: it debuted at #60 almost a year ago, but will probably be out by the end of 2021. Rang De Basanti will probably exit by then too.
... Of the other "recent" entries, Portrait of a Lady on Fire is desperately trying to stall falling off the list, but it may not make it past the summer; Rififi is right behind (ahead?) of it, though may have some staying power since it used to be in the list years ago; Time of the Gypsies probably won't last either, but it may be too soon to tell; To Be or Not to Be and Höstsonaten both appear to have stabilized somewhat, especially the former, so they're probably around for the long haul (or at least another year or two).
... Indian crime drama Article 15 might enter the list in a month or two; it's at 8.2 with 24,486 votes. If it does enter, I predict it won't last for long.
... Z will almost certainly be the next film to enter the list (barring a new release being a smash hit); an 8.3 rating with 24,326 votes, it'll probably re-enter the list somewhere around #150, like what The Father did with it's similar rating. It was in the list briefly a few times in 2006-2007.
... After that, Pather Panchali and Dersu Uzala are both within 850 votes of the threshold, which they should hit some time in mid-autumn I believe. Both should enter the list fairly high, if they maintain their current 8.6 and 8.3 ratings, respectively. Pather has (surprisingly) never been in the list, and Dersu was in for 2 days in 2005.
... And lastly, Drishyam 2 (sequel to the original Malayalam film) is rapidly approaching the threshold, with an 8.7 rating from 22,929 votes right now. If it makes the list, and the original Malayalam film and Hindi remake both hang on to their spots in the 240-250 range, then we'll have 3 Drishyams in the list soon.

So for those concerned about achieving/maintaining their plats for this list, those are my recommendations on what to focus on/avoid. Everything else approaching the threshold is either not rated highly enough, or is too slow/far away that it won't cross it for another year or more. And nothing else currently on the list is steadily dropping, aside from the same 3-7 films that keep rotating in and out of the list.
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#4086

Post by Tim2460 »

Thx to all for the work on the Asian List !
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#4087

Post by dirty_score »

Torgo wrote: April 27th, 2021, 4:26 am
Fergenaprido wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:22 pm
Torgo wrote: March 18th, 2021, 2:13 pm The long-hyped Snyder Cut of Justice League has finally been released today and starts to an impressive (and of course ridiculous) 8.9 at 11k votes on IMDb. It should enter the Top 250 by tonight, but has just about missed the ICM update cycle. Bets are on if it will still become a new official check by Monday. ;)
It's now entered the Top 250 at #117 with a weighted rating of 8.2 (compared to a raw rating of 8.8 on the film page). It will fall off the list eventually, but I think the speed at which it does depends on how many non-fans feel like dedicating 4 hours of their life to see a different version of a film they probably already saw and thought was just okay (or worse). :D Could be out before the end of the month, though.
.. aand, 6 weeks later, ZSJL has left the Top 250, a fast plunge after a phenomenal start.
Users who are sad to see it become unofficial so fast: You won't have to grieve for too long, it's at 1240 checks now, easily will have 1500 checks by summer and then return for the genre lists ... and even the 2020 decade list .. in a while. :ph43r:


For those interested, here's how the list looks like at the moment: IMDb's 2020s Top 50
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#4088

Post by Onderhond »

Ah yes ... Hamilton :facepalm:
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#4089

Post by xianjiro »

Onderhond wrote: April 27th, 2021, 10:32 am Ah yes ... Hamilton :facepalm:
I hear it's the greatest movie of all time - much better than Showhank Presumption.
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#4090

Post by Tim2460 »

Onward 7th ... seriously ??
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#4091

Post by TiRex »

Fergenaprido wrote: April 27th, 2021, 5:57 am
Torgo wrote: April 27th, 2021, 4:26 am Thanks for the update, Ferg :sweat: Those sound like reasonable decisions.

Fergenaprido wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:22 pm

It's now entered the Top 250 at #117 with a weighted rating of 8.2 (compared to a raw rating of 8.8 on the film page). It will fall off the list eventually, but I think the speed at which it does depends on how many non-fans feel like dedicating 4 hours of their life to see a different version of a film they probably already saw and thought was just okay (or worse). :D Could be out before the end of the month, though.
.. aand, 6 weeks later, ZSJL has left the Top 250, a fast plunge after a phenomenal start.
Users who are sad to see it become unofficial so fast: You won't have to grieve for too long, it's at 1240 checks now, easily will have 1500 checks by summer and then return for the genre lists ... and even the 2020 decade list .. in a while. :ph43r:
Yep.

In other Top 250 news...
... The Father debuted at #150 two weeks ago and is slowly climbing. It's the only 2020 BP Oscar nom in the list... I wonder where it will end up.
... Tarkovsky's Offret failed to make the cut after crossing the threshold, and now Nostalgia is 1000 votes away as well. Both are rated 8.1, so I suspect Nostalgia will also miss the list.
... Ratsasan is also falling quickly, and will be out in a week or two at the most.
... Soul should follow it out of the list within a month or two I think, though it's decline has slowed down. Not sure if it's Oscar wins will help it or hinder it (Trivia: all four of Pete Docter's films are currently in the Top 250).
... Anand is still dropping: it debuted at #60 almost a year ago, but will probably be out by the end of 2021. Rang De Basanti will probably exit by then too.
... Of the other "recent" entries, Portrait of a Lady on Fire is desperately trying to stall falling off the list, but it may not make it past the summer; Rififi is right behind (ahead?) of it, though may have some staying power since it used to be in the list years ago; Time of the Gypsies probably won't last either, but it may be too soon to tell; To Be or Not to Be and Höstsonaten both appear to have stabilized somewhat, especially the former, so they're probably around for the long haul (or at least another year or two).
... Indian crime drama Article 15 might enter the list in a month or two; it's at 8.2 with 24,486 votes. If it does enter, I predict it won't last for long.
... Z will almost certainly be the next film to enter the list (barring a new release being a smash hit); an 8.3 rating with 24,326 votes, it'll probably re-enter the list somewhere around #150, like what The Father did with it's similar rating. It was in the list briefly a few times in 2006-2007.
... After that, Pather Panchali and Dersu Uzala are both within 850 votes of the threshold, which they should hit some time in mid-autumn I believe. Both should enter the list fairly high, if they maintain their current 8.6 and 8.3 ratings, respectively. Pather has (surprisingly) never been in the list, and Dersu was in for 2 days in 2005.
... And lastly, Drishyam 2 (sequel to the original Malayalam film) is rapidly approaching the threshold, with an 8.7 rating from 22,929 votes right now. If it makes the list, and the original Malayalam film and Hindi remake both hang on to their spots in the 240-250 range, then we'll have 3 Drishyams in the list soon.

So for those concerned about achieving/maintaining their plats for this list, those are my recommendations on what to focus on/avoid. Everything else approaching the threshold is either not rated highly enough, or is too slow/far away that it won't cross it for another year or more. And nothing else currently on the list is steadily dropping, aside from the same 3-7 films that keep rotating in and out of the list.
This is public service! Thanks a lot! :worship:
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#4092

Post by monclivie »

I totally loved Hamilton, leave it alone, but this list.. um, clearly shows, why we keep decade lists, not yearly. Onward is 7th, because what else, Borat?
Fergenaprido wrote:And lastly, Drishyam 2 (sequel to the original Malayalam film) is rapidly approaching the threshold, with an 8.7 rating from 22,929 votes right now. If it makes the list, and the original Malayalam film and Hindi remake both hang on to their spots in the 240-250 range, then we'll have 3 Drishyams in the list soon.
Mother of god, and the other three language versions have 8+ rating. Need to start watching all these Drihyashamalamas, these are like gremlins in the rain.
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#4093

Post by Torgo »

Chill, guys!
As of now, this prototype version of the list is much about popularity because of the 1500-check-threshold. It takes time for films to break it and, and I am sad to say that: It probably takes a bit longer than it did in 2012 with more activity on the site.
Films which will cross the limit soon and make the list a little less ESC and Sonic-y: Druk (2020) - The Father (2020) - Minari (2020) - Judas and the Black Messiah (2021) - One Night in Miami (2020) - WolfWalkers (2020) - The Mauritanian (2021) - Never Rarely Sometimes Always (2020) (l) - Quo vadis, Aida? (2020) - The Banker (2020) - Retfærdighedens ryttere (2020)

.. and by 2022, we will see the light at the end of the tunnel. With no Marvel so far! :P
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#4094

Post by Ebbywebby »

Wow, I'm not even sure how I would go about monitoring this issue.
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#4095

Post by beasterne »

Why isn't Sound of Metal on the list? It's over the check threshold and higher rated on IMDb than most of these movies.

edit: actually I just found my answer, it is marked as a 2019 film on IMDb.
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#4096

Post by dirty_score »

Torgo wrote: April 27th, 2021, 8:42 pm Chill, guys!
As of now, this prototype version of the list is much about popularity because of the 1500-check-threshold. It takes time for films to break it and, and I am sad to say that: It probably takes a bit longer than it did in 2012 with more activity on the site.
Films which will cross the limit soon and make the list a little less ESC and Sonic-y: Druk (2020) - The Father (2020) - Minari (2020) - Judas and the Black Messiah (2021) - One Night in Miami (2020) - WolfWalkers (2020) - The Mauritanian (2021) - Never Rarely Sometimes Always (2020) (l) - Quo vadis, Aida? (2020) - The Banker (2020) - Retfærdighedens ryttere (2020)

.. and by 2022, we will see the light at the end of the tunnel. With no Marvel so far! :P
Also soonish: Bad Boys For Life, Mulan, ZS Justice League and Godzilla vs Kong
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#4097

Post by Torgo »

Psst.. psst. It's already hard enough for me lobbying for this list in 2022. :ph43r:
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#4098

Post by dirty_score »

Paste updated the anime list.

Only one change: On-Gaku: Our Sound (2019) for The Secret World of Arrietty (2010)
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#4099

Post by Onderhond »

Probably a solid switch to offset the Ghibli dominance. Also a good reason to finally get around to watching On-Gaku. So far I've avoided it because I don't like Japanese band films that much.

Odd they passed up on the chance to add Promare though. That's definitely one I expected to be in there by now.
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#4100

Post by Fergenaprido »

dirty_score wrote: April 28th, 2021, 11:07 am Paste updated the anime list.

Only one change: On-Gaku: Our Sound (2019) for The Secret World of Arrietty (2010)
List updated. It irritates me when wesbites republish a list like this, making you think it's new or greatly updates, and then they only make a minor change.

Ongaku becomes official, Arrietty becomes unofficial
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#4101

Post by Onderhond »

There goes my platinum. At least for 7 to 8 hours :D
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#4102

Post by Fergenaprido »

Onderhond wrote: April 28th, 2021, 10:17 pm There goes my platinum. At least for 7 to 8 hours :D
You'll probably gain it back before the system update clicks in, so it will be like you never lost it in the first place. :P
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#4103

Post by Onderhond »

Fergenaprido wrote: April 28th, 2021, 10:58 pm You'll probably gain it back before the system update clicks in, so it will be like you never lost it in the first place. :P
Seems you were right. :D

Will say this though, as happy as I am with Paste Anime moving away from Ghibli dominance, On-Gaku is an extremely poor substitute. Japan has a pretty sketchy track record when it comes to films about bands and On-Gaku seems to just continue that trend. There were many better choices from the past couple of years.
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#4104

Post by Torgo »

dirty_score wrote: April 28th, 2021, 11:07 am Paste updated the anime list.
Okay, I really don't know why I'm doing this but I guess I want to keep things clean:

The Paste list on ICM lists 5 singular, individual short films of ~10 minutes length at the ranks 84.-88.; everyone who's been working on the list will recognize them as part of a short film series called Sweat Punch. Now look at the Paste list itself; it doesn't divide those 5 films into 5 entries, but speaks very clearly of the way they were released:
Comprising five animated shorts originally released as a part of Grasshoppa! DVD magazine issues, they were then collected into one release titled Deep Imagination.
Now guess what we have at IMDb .. Deep Imagination (2006), an entry described in the plot summary with: ""DEEP IMAGINATION" is the omnibus animation film of SWEAT PUNCH SERIES, and includes five short stories"
Judging by the 13 votes it gathered so far I assume it's a rather new addition of the collection to the database and maybe didn't exist when the Paste list initially was added to ICM. But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.

I'm essentially robbing myself of 4 checks and maybe losing my Oscar Nominee rank again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ buut, lists, they are serious business, you know.

By the way, those shorts suck.
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#4105

Post by kongs_speech »

Torgo wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:59 am
dirty_score wrote: April 28th, 2021, 11:07 am Paste updated the anime list.
Okay, I really don't know why I'm doing this but I guess I want to keep things clean:

The Paste list on ICM lists 5 singular, individual short films of ~10 minutes length at the ranks 84.-88.; everyone who's been working on the list will recognize them as part of a short film series called Sweat Punch. Now look at the Paste list itself; it doesn't divide those 5 films into 5 entries, but speaks very clearly of the way they were released:
Comprising five animated shorts originally released as a part of Grasshoppa! DVD magazine issues, they were then collected into one release titled Deep Imagination.
Now guess what we have at IMDb .. Deep Imagination (2006), an entry described in the plot summary with: ""DEEP IMAGINATION" is the omnibus animation film of SWEAT PUNCH SERIES, and includes five short stories"
Judging by the 13 votes it gathered so far I assume it's a rather new addition of the collection to the database and maybe didn't exist when the Paste list initially was added to ICM. But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.

I'm essentially robbing myself of 4 checks and maybe losing my Oscar Nominee rank again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ buut, lists, they are serious business, you know.

By the way, those shorts suck.
Nah, fuck that. I already watched one of those dumb shorts the other day. I don't want to lose my check.
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#4106

Post by Onderhond »

Torgo wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:59 am But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.
A top 100 with 100 entries. That'd be the odd one out! tehe

I also remember this discussion from when the list was first adopted, though I'll leave it to others to dig it up. The reasoning might have been that these shorts weren't originally created as part of an anthology, but maybe bundled together on a named release? Just a bit of semantics if you ask me, I'd prefer the anthology entry on the Paste list. That's how I originally watched them.
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#4107

Post by mjf314 »

Torgo wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:59 am But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.
I might be mistaken, but I thought IMDb doesn't allow DVD compilations of multiple films.

If that's the case, it might be deleted from IMDb in the future, so I think it's safer to just keep the individual films on the iCM list.

Listing the individual films also makes it easier to keep track of your progress, because not everyone watches all of the shorts at once.
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#4108

Post by Knaldskalle »

mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:02 am
Torgo wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:59 am But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.
I might be mistaken, but I thought IMDb doesn't allow DVD compilations of multiple films.

If that's the case, it might be deleted from IMDb in the future, so I think it's safer to just keep the individual films on the iCM list.
Really? So the Flicker Alley 6-disc (3 BD+3DVD) box set "Early Women Filmmakers" shouldn't have an IMDb entry? It's just a "compilation" of films already on IMDb and doesn't (afaik) have any original content. Just look at the list of directors...
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#4109

Post by kongs_speech »

Knaldskalle wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:18 am
mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:02 am
Torgo wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:59 am But looking at this now, I don't see why we clutter the list with the small entries instead of the omnibus feature, which gives us a clean Top 100 again.
I might be mistaken, but I thought IMDb doesn't allow DVD compilations of multiple films.

If that's the case, it might be deleted from IMDb in the future, so I think it's safer to just keep the individual films on the iCM list.
Really? So the Flicker Alley 6-disc (3 BD+3DVD) box set "Early Women Filmmakers" shouldn't have an IMDb entry? It's just a "compilation" of films already on IMDb and doesn't (afaik) have any original content. Just look at the list of directors...
No, that's literally just a box set. No worthier of its own IMDb entry than the Joan Crawford DVD 4-pack I have.
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#4110

Post by Knaldskalle »

kongs_speech wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:22 am
Knaldskalle wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:18 am
mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:02 am

I might be mistaken, but I thought IMDb doesn't allow DVD compilations of multiple films.

If that's the case, it might be deleted from IMDb in the future, so I think it's safer to just keep the individual films on the iCM list.
Really? So the Flicker Alley 6-disc (3 BD+3DVD) box set "Early Women Filmmakers" shouldn't have an IMDb entry? It's just a "compilation" of films already on IMDb and doesn't (afaik) have any original content. Just look at the list of directors...
No, that's literally just a box set. No worthier of its own IMDb entry than the Joan Crawford DVD 4-pack I have.
A few days ago I was looking for a list with the movies in the set. Imagine my surprise when here was no list but there was a check on iCM.
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#4111

Post by Onderhond »

mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:02 am Listing the individual films also makes it easier to keep track of your progress, because not everyone watches all of the shorts at once.
Is this really relevant at all? Also, we're not doing that for Memories, Short Peace & Genius Party.

The Studio 4°C website itself describes the film as an "omnibus animation film", though you have to wonder who translated that page to English and how well they were aware of the nuance currently discussed here. But that definition alone though, it should just be one entry.
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#4112

Post by mjf314 »

I guess the difference is that Deep Imagination is made up of films that had already been released earlier.

The shorts that make up Memories, Short Peace, and Genius Party were originally released as anthologies.

Also, not all of the shorts from Short Peace and Genius Party are on IMDb, so we don't have a choice for those two.
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#4113

Post by Onderhond »

mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 6:20 am Also, not all of the shorts from Short Peace and Genius Party are on IMDb, so we don't have a choice for those two.
They could easily be added, no?
mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 6:20 am I guess the difference is that Deep Imagination is made up of films that had already been released earlier
As far as I can see, this is really the only argument. I've read in other threads that adherence to the original list is usually key though, so like I'm surprised some kind exception is being made here. If TV-series can be films, a collection of shorts described by their own creators as an omnibus project can definitely be added as a single entry.
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#4114

Post by mjf314 »

If it's likely to be deleted in the future, then there's no point in changing the iCM list. Is anyone here knowledgeable about IMDb's eligibility rules? Are there any compilations of already-existing films that have a lot of votes on IMDb, but still haven't been deleted?
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#4115

Post by Onderhond »

mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 6:50 am If it's likely to be deleted in the future, then there's no point in changing the iCM list. Is anyone here knowledgeable about IMDb's eligibility rules? Are there any compilations of already-existing films that have a lot of votes on IMDb, but still haven't been deleted?
Apparently I rated Deep Imagination on IMDb on 11 Feb 2019. So it's been there at least for two years now.
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#4116

Post by joachimt »

I recently released an entry from iCM that was deleted from IMDb. It was a compilation of three Wallace & Gromit shorts. So it does happen indeed what mjf314 is saying. The problem is you can never be sure with IMDb. If someone makes a claim at IMDb to delete the compilation and as proof he gives the five separate pages and a sourcepage of the DVD-compilation, I'm pretty sure the deletion will be accepted. Then someone else notices it and he claims it's an omnibus and as proof he gives a source where the creators claim it was released as such. Then it will be readded to IMDb with a different url, creating a dupe on iCM.

Or none of this will happen........ you never know. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Remember the problems that have been caused with Heimat 2?
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#4117

Post by xianjiro »

Ugh, yes. And it's not like anthology films comprised of shorts by 10+ directors around a given theme is an alien concept. I can think of a number of such though I'm not sure if any are official checks (or have been), but I do remember X from Y (and not the three other shorts in the anthology) being official. There was one comprised of a handful of films by "big" Italian directors in the 70s - if I remember correctly, the official component film was about a film being shot about the last supper (or something like that) while this guy is running around trying to feed his family and himself. I've seen it both stand alone and as part of the bigger anthology that, as I understood it, was screen as a unified anthology film and not a bunch of shorts.

So this is going to be one of those "all of the above" scenarios. Even though that monster 1000 greatest films list includes "the Lord of the Rings Trilogy" as a single entry, each movie is, and hopefully will always be, listed separately on both IMDb and iCM no matter what effort is made to have a single 9+ hour entry on either.

Just can't see that it's worth spending too much time on.
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#4118

Post by Onderhond »

In the end, when everything else is muddled and unclear, it all boils down to "following the source", no? :)
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#4119

Post by xianjiro »

Onderhond wrote: April 30th, 2021, 7:54 am In the end, when everything else is muddled and unclear, it all boils down to "following the source", no? :)
yes, but

IMDb doesn't follow a list's source and we also have to follow IMDb since that's where all our (non-list) data comes from

Again - LotR - it's clearly in the source as a unified whole (and thus counts as 1 of the 1000 best) but it would be highly unproductive to argue it isn't three films just because the list's source treats it as a single entry. Clearly it has rarely, if ever, been screened as a unified whole, so "following the source" is simply not possible.

If, in the case of the Italian example I mentioned (found it - Ro.Go.Pa.G. and the specific segment is Pasolini's "La ricotta" and the list is FilmTV's The Best Italian Films with the intro saying, "Note - this entry is just for one segment of an anthology film: Ro.Go.Pa.G = La ricotta (Pier Paolo Pasolini, 1963)" and "71 - Ro.Go.Pa.G. 1963, in 5 top lists" though the complete anthology film is listed on four other lists), someone were to try and add that single segment as a separate entry on IMDb for the purpose of some iCM list entry, that shouldn't be allowed given IMDb's long list of rules and will eventually be expunged. So all we can do is put it in the introduction - I guess the choice then comes down to will the complete anthology be included in the list for an official check or excluded and people are just supposed to remember that they have or have not seen that segment - and, of course, adjust the all important rankings accordingly.

from Cahiers du Cinéma's Annual Top 10 Lists: "1968's #4 spot for Histoires extraordinaires is specifically for Federico Fellini's segment "Toby Damnit." " and "423 - Histoires extraordinaires 1968 — a.k.a. Spirits of the Dead, in 3 top lists"

I don't remember anyone actually making the case that Toby Damnit needed to be a separate entry on IMDb and Histoires extraordinaires removed from the Cahiers Top 10s list. And guess what, "No results found for "toby damnit" " when one searches IMDb. So this just doesn't wash.

And if it's because you're peeved that an anime series was added to Vick's Asian list, we're really talking oranges and apples or at least oranges and tangerines here. The series were given the same treatment as other films in the book - note, Tom Vick never released an actual list of Asian films he thought iCMers should see, we decided to make a list based on his book. For better or worse.

"Following the source" is about being as true to the source as we can possibly be given the constraints of the underlying data all lists ultimately rely on. If we didn't rely on IMDb, if we created our movie database from the ground up, we could absolutely force our data to follow lists' sources and include entries for each of the examples above as exactly stated in the source ... and then break it up so that we could also agree with another source. Are you at the head of line volunteering to both fund that project and do the data entry? :)
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#4120

Post by Onderhond »

That's a lot of buts that simply don't apply to this situation though.

The entry has been on IMDb at least two years now.
The entry is a normal way to discover these films, as Studio 4°C is known for putting out esteemed animated anthologies regularly.
The company responsible for making the shorts has specifically named the release and has described the film as an omnibus project.

:shrug:
xianjiro wrote: April 30th, 2021, 9:14 am And if it's because you're peeved that an anime series was added to Vick's Asian list
Meh
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