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#4041

Post by Torgo »

GruesomeTwosome wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:15 pm
Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:04 pm Ah, Minority Report, one of those forgotten gems. Textbook noir.
Assuming your post is pure sarcasm, I’d say Minority Report is a lot more neo-noir than another of the new additions, Point Break (1991), is. Of the newly added films I’m familiar with, Point Break is more of the head-scratcher to me.
hehe, you could argue so. I'm not a fan of all those fringe-cases for megalists.
Do yourself a favor and sort the 1000 Noirs by checks - just quickly scrolling through the first 20 or 30 titles, who would get the idea this a collection of everything noir? Sure, you could find the characteristics in any of them (for some more than for others). But adding too many of the outliers is watering down the overall picture .. im-very-ho.

OldAle - agree with Denver and the Tarantino worship. Liked it as kid on TV. ^_^
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#4042

Post by kongs_speech »

This list is a joke if it doesn't end up including The Kid Detective.
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#4043

Post by Onderhond »

kongs_speech wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:34 pm This list is a joke if it doesn't end up including The Kid Detective.
It definitely should, but it probably won't. That kind of lowkey genre work usually gets a hard pass from critics. Not much audience hype for that one either I'm afraid. Very cool film though.
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#4044

Post by GruesomeTwosome »

OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:22 pm
GruesomeTwosome wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:15 pm
Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:04 pm Ah, Minority Report, one of those forgotten gems. Textbook noir.
Assuming your post is pure sarcasm, I’d say Minority Report is a lot more neo-noir than another of the new additions, Point Break (1991), is. Of the newly added films I’m familiar with, Point Break is more of the head-scratcher to me.
I've seen those two and City of Industry, which is much closer to what I think of as noir in the modern context than the other two, though to be fair I barely remember Point Break. Things to Do in Denver looks like any number of Tarantino wannabes from the 90s, most of which aren't very good but at least do tend often to have plenty of neo-noir characteristics. The Story of Molly X, one of the more obscure entries from the original list, looks kind of promising to me though.
I’m somewhat of a Point Break fan and last saw it a few years ago so it’s relatively fresh in my mind, and yeah I’m not really seeing much “noir” elements meriting inclusion to that list. Just more of a straight up action thriller really.
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#4045

Post by OldAle1 »

kongs_speech wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:34 pm This list is a joke if it doesn't end up including The Kid Detective.
Assuming YOU are not joking (I never know) - no chance in hell. There are only two films post-2007 on the list so far, the most recent being from 2014. No way does a 2020 film get on the list - even if it were one that got all kinds of awards noms & great reviews and such.

But thanks for bringing it to my attention, hadn't heard of it and anything even vaguely noir-ish is at least worth noticing for me. Afraid I'll need positive comments from somebody other than you and Ondherhond before I'd think of prioritizing it though... :lol:
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#4046

Post by Onderhond »

OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:10 pm Afraid I'll need positive comments from somebody other than you and Ondherhond before I'd think of prioritizing it though... :lol:
Maybe sol could chime in? Or Flavo. Feels like a film they might have seen already.
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#4047

Post by kongs_speech »

OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:10 pm
kongs_speech wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:34 pm This list is a joke if it doesn't end up including The Kid Detective.
Assuming YOU are not joking (I never know) - no chance in hell. There are only two films post-2007 on the list so far, the most recent being from 2014. No way does a 2020 film get on the list - even if it were one that got all kinds of awards noms & great reviews and such.

But thanks for bringing it to my attention, hadn't heard of it and anything even vaguely noir-ish is at least worth noticing for me. Afraid I'll need positive comments from somebody other than you and Ondherhond before I'd think of prioritizing it though... :lol:
kongs_speech wrote:
Most films that blend comedy with darker genres tend to skew towards aiming for laughs. Evan Morgan's The Kid Detective takes an opposite approach, deploying moments of humor, primarily in the first two-thirds of the movie, in order to provide levity to a dark, sophisticated neo-noir that has more in common with the likes of Brick. Another comparison might be The Big Lebowski, in regards to the complexity of the Coen film's central mystery.

Adam Brody is superb as the emotionally damaged "kid detective," Abe Applebaum. As a child, Abe was respected in his community for solving mysteries. Years later, in his thirties, he still operates his detective agency, haunted by the regret of never finding a missing 14-year-old girl. When high schooler Caroline (Sophie Neilesse, excellent here) asks him to solve her boyfriend's murder, Abe suddenly finds himself with the case of his career and a shot at redemption.

What The Kid Detective really achieves is using noir tropes as a framework to tell a deeply relatable story about Abe being unable to move past his trauma, and as a result, trapped in a state of perpetual adolescence. This is such a smart and emotionally resonant twist on the "man-child" themes that became popular in the wake of Judd Apatow's comedies. Speaking of twists, the film's third act is jarring, shifting the tone far beyond anything expected. Few, if any viewers, will solve the case. Everything Morgan wanted to say with The Kid Detective is summed up poetically in the final shot, which culminates in an especially strong needle drop.
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#4048

Post by OldAle1 »

OK that helps, and I just looked at a couple of mixed-but-mostly-positive pro reviews. Added to the queue, I should get to it in 4-5 centuries or so.
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#4049

Post by Knaldskalle »

GruesomeTwosome wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:43 pm
OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:22 pm
GruesomeTwosome wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:15 pm
Assuming your post is pure sarcasm, I’d say Minority Report is a lot more neo-noir than another of the new additions, Point Break (1991), is. Of the newly added films I’m familiar with, Point Break is more of the head-scratcher to me.
I've seen those two and City of Industry, which is much closer to what I think of as noir in the modern context than the other two, though to be fair I barely remember Point Break. Things to Do in Denver looks like any number of Tarantino wannabes from the 90s, most of which aren't very good but at least do tend often to have plenty of neo-noir characteristics. The Story of Molly X, one of the more obscure entries from the original list, looks kind of promising to me though.
I’m somewhat of a Point Break fan and last saw it a few years ago so it’s relatively fresh in my mind, and yeah I’m not really seeing much “noir” elements meriting inclusion to that list. Just more of a straight up action thriller really.
I finally saw it not that long ago. It does have a femme fatale in it as well as a criminal undertaking, but it doesn't feature the chiaroscuro lighting we tend to expect from noirs (the rain wet street lit by a single lamp post). It also doesn't have the "getting into trouble because a moment of weakness" aspect to it...
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#4050

Post by sol »

Onderhond wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:20 pm
OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:10 pm Afraid I'll need positive comments from somebody other than you and Ondherhond before I'd think of prioritizing it though... :lol:
Maybe sol could chime in? Or Flavo. Feels like a film they might have seen already.
I have actually never even heard of The Kid Detective before. Not sure why it's meant to be my sorta film. Some body horror film I'm unaware of? :unsure:
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#4051

Post by flavo5000 »

Onderhond wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:20 pm
OldAle1 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:10 pm Afraid I'll need positive comments from somebody other than you and Ondherhond before I'd think of prioritizing it though... :lol:
Maybe sol could chime in? Or Flavo. Feels like a film they might have seen already.
It's been on my queue to watch for a while. I was saving it for the Mystery challenge next month. :D
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#4052

Post by flavo5000 »

My question is, when will we see the majestic neo-noir Butt Boy show up on the list?
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#4053

Post by sol »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:38 pm My question is, when will we see the majestic neo-noir Butt Boy show up on the list?
Now that one I actually HAVE heard of and seen. :unsure:
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#4054

Post by OldAle1 »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:38 pm My question is, when will we see the majestic neo-noir Butt Boy show up on the list?
When we have an official list of best films featuring at least three main actors named Tyler, I think it will be a shoe-in.
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#4055

Post by kongs_speech »

I haven't seen it, but I absolutely think Butt Boy should be on an official list. Along with the list of Chantal Akerman's favorite films, John Waters' annual top 10s should be one of the next two directorial lists selected.
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#4056

Post by Onderhond »

sol wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 3:37 pm Not sure why it's meant to be my sorta film. Some body horror film I'm unaware of? :unsure:
Contemporary low-key/off-kilter genre cinema. Not that you're the biggest representative ever ... just one of the handful of people here who actually seeks out stuff like that from time to time. In the land of the blind :ph43r:
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#4057

Post by Fergenaprido »

sol wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 9:55 am I think when I investigated this before, I concluded that both Circle of Power and Old Enough should be part of the list. Both are amazing films too.
I did some minor digging. Both are listed on imdb as winning the Sundance top prize. Old Enough is listed on wikipedia (but not Circle of Power), and neither film is listed on the Sundance site as winning. They're both mentioned, but not as winners. I'm inclined to go with Sundance itself, but there must be some reason those two are included on some lists. The Festival's own site consider 1985 to be the first year, though.
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#4058

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#4059

Post by flavo5000 »

Fergenaprido wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 4:14 pm
sol wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 9:55 am I think when I investigated this before, I concluded that both Circle of Power and Old Enough should be part of the list. Both are amazing films too.
I did some minor digging. Both are listed on imdb as winning the Sundance top prize. Old Enough is listed on wikipedia (but not Circle of Power), and neither film is listed on the Sundance site as winning. They're both mentioned, but not as winners. I'm inclined to go with Sundance itself, but there must be some reason those two are included on some lists. The Festival's own site consider 1985 to be the first year, though.
I did some more digging. So the festival actually started in 1978 under the name US/Utah Film Festival and actually awarded two Jury prizes to Weill's Girlfriends (which won top prize) and The Whole Shootin' Match (which received a specially created 2nd place prize). But it looks like they've been giving out grand jury awards since 1978 which means there are several films missing from the list. FYI, Circle of Power was given the Dramatic Film top award at the 1982 festival, not 1984. The reason the Sundance website starts in 1985 is that was the year the Sundance Institute took over the festival. Although Robert Redford was involved from the very beginning back in 1978, and it wasn't actually named the Sundance Film Festival until 1991.

From what I can gather, here's what I've found in summary so far:
1978: Girlfriends (Claudia Weill)
1979: Spirit of the Wind (Ralph Liddle)
1980: No festival held this year
1981:?
1982: Killer of Sheep? (I found an article stating it won 1st prize in 1982) /Circle of Power? (Wikipedia and IMDB lists it as having won the Dramatic Film prize)
1983:?
1984: Old Enough
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#4060

Post by WalterNeff »

iCM forum discussing Noir - Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make.
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#4061

Post by Fergenaprido »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:13 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 4:14 pm
sol wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 9:55 am I think when I investigated this before, I concluded that both Circle of Power and Old Enough should be part of the list. Both are amazing films too.
I did some minor digging. Both are listed on imdb as winning the Sundance top prize. Old Enough is listed on wikipedia (but not Circle of Power), and neither film is listed on the Sundance site as winning. They're both mentioned, but not as winners. I'm inclined to go with Sundance itself, but there must be some reason those two are included on some lists. The Festival's own site consider 1985 to be the first year, though.
I did some more digging. So the festival actually started in 1978 under the name US/Utah Film Festival and actually awarded two Jury prizes to Weill's Girlfriends (which won top prize) and The Whole Shootin' Match (which received a specially created 2nd place prize). But it looks like they've been giving out grand jury awards since 1978 which means there are several films missing from the list. FYI, Circle of Power was given the Dramatic Film top award at the 1982 festival, not 1984. The reason the Sundance website starts in 1985 is that was the year the Sundance Institute took over the festival. Although Robert Redford was involved from the very beginning back in 1978, and it wasn't actually named the Sundance Film Festival until 1991.

From what I can gather, here's what I've found in summary so far:
1978: Girlfriends (Claudia Weill)
1979: Spirit of the Wind (Ralph Liddle)
1980: No festival held this year
1981:?
1982: Killer of Sheep? (I found an article stating it won 1st prize in 1982) /Circle of Power? (Wikipedia and IMDB lists it as having won the Dramatic Film prize)
1983:?
1984: Old Enough
Could you share your sources? If we have news articles or other definitive information, I think that should be good enough to cite as a reason to update the list.

Old Enough is on the Sundance site, but it's listed in 1982 as a lab film: https://history.sundance.org/films/1708/old_enough (though that might still mean it screened in 1984 since Boys Don't Cry is listed as a lab film from 1997, but came out in 1999: https://history.sundance.org/films/3865/boys_dont_cry - yeah, it's listed in the 1984 festival later)
I was wrong, though, and Circle of Power isn't listed there.
Here's the award summary for the 1985 Festival: https://history.sundance.org/events/20
For 1984, though, no awards are mentioned: https://history.sundance.org/events/19
None of the earlier years have summaries at all.

I found this list on wikipedia of all award winners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... rd_winners
Each year (1984-present) is sourced to the Sundance.org award summary page for that year, but the 1984 link is the same blank one I shared above.

I found this list on wikipedia of all selected films (1978-present): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... selections
Girlfriends is listed as the Jury Prize winner for the Regional Cinema Competition - I don't know if that's the same as the Grand Jury Prize Dramatic, as there are often multiple different jury prizes each year.
Spirit of the Wind is listed as the Grand Prize—Independent Film Competition - this sounds more comparable to Grand Jury Prize Dramatic.
No other films are listed as winners until 1985.
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#4062

Post by OldAle1 »

https://www.sundance.org/projects/killer-of-sheep

"Charles Burnett’s Killer of Sheep first screened at the 1982 film festival, where it shared the Grand Jury Prize."

I don't see any simple, easy way to just get a list of all the prizewinners on the site - or an explanation of how names of prizes have changed over the years or anything, but just searching for all the titles in question and looking at the descriptions should help as it does in this case.
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#4063

Post by Torgo »

Hot take: Isn't it serving us well to stick to the "official" Sundance prizes from 1985 on instead of doing these detective games on the net in search of previous, hardly relevant iterations of the festival? :unsure:
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#4064

Post by flavo5000 »

Fergenaprido wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:58 pm
flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:13 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 4:14 pm

I did some minor digging. Both are listed on imdb as winning the Sundance top prize. Old Enough is listed on wikipedia (but not Circle of Power), and neither film is listed on the Sundance site as winning. They're both mentioned, but not as winners. I'm inclined to go with Sundance itself, but there must be some reason those two are included on some lists. The Festival's own site consider 1985 to be the first year, though.
I did some more digging. So the festival actually started in 1978 under the name US/Utah Film Festival and actually awarded two Jury prizes to Weill's Girlfriends (which won top prize) and The Whole Shootin' Match (which received a specially created 2nd place prize). But it looks like they've been giving out grand jury awards since 1978 which means there are several films missing from the list. FYI, Circle of Power was given the Dramatic Film top award at the 1982 festival, not 1984. The reason the Sundance website starts in 1985 is that was the year the Sundance Institute took over the festival. Although Robert Redford was involved from the very beginning back in 1978, and it wasn't actually named the Sundance Film Festival until 1991.

From what I can gather, here's what I've found in summary so far:
1978: Girlfriends (Claudia Weill)
1979: Spirit of the Wind (Ralph Liddle)
1980: No festival held this year
1981:?
1982: Killer of Sheep? (I found an article stating it won 1st prize in 1982) /Circle of Power? (Wikipedia and IMDB lists it as having won the Dramatic Film prize)
1983:?
1984: Old Enough
Could you share your sources? If we have news articles or other definitive information, I think that should be good enough to cite as a reason to update the list.

Old Enough is on the Sundance site, but it's listed in 1982 as a lab film: https://history.sundance.org/films/1708/old_enough (though that might still mean it screened in 1984 since Boys Don't Cry is listed as a lab film from 1997, but came out in 1999: https://history.sundance.org/films/3865/boys_dont_cry - yeah, it's listed in the 1984 festival later)
I was wrong, though, and Circle of Power isn't listed there.
Here's the award summary for the 1985 Festival: https://history.sundance.org/events/20
For 1984, though, no awards are mentioned: https://history.sundance.org/events/19
None of the earlier years have summaries at all.

I found this list on wikipedia of all award winners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... rd_winners
Each year (1984-present) is sourced to the Sundance.org award summary page for that year, but the 1984 link is the same blank one I shared above.

I found this list on wikipedia of all selected films (1978-present): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... selections
Girlfriends is listed as the Jury Prize winner for the Regional Cinema Competition - I don't know if that's the same as the Grand Jury Prize Dramatic, as there are often multiple different jury prizes each year.
Spirit of the Wind is listed as the Grand Prize—Independent Film Competition - this sounds more comparable to Grand Jury Prize Dramatic.
No other films are listed as winners until 1985.
Here's the article on 1978: Chris Hicks Article
On 1979: Chick Hicks on 1979

Here was the source on 1982's Killer of Sheep:
Bottom of Page 97, top of 98
But yea, IMDB lists Circle of Power as the Grand Jury Winner/Dramatic. So I dunno. Maybe both won similar to 1981?

Ah ha! I found 1981's winners:
Roger Ebert on 1981
The top prize was shared by Richard Pearce's "Heartland" and Victor Nunez's "Gal Young Un" according to Roger Ebert himself who was a judge that year (Sayles' Return of the Secaucus Seven won 2nd prize if anyone's curious).

And here's 1983! Looks like IMDB itself has the winner of this one:
IMDB 1983 Utah/US Film Festival winner
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#4065

Post by flavo5000 »

Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:13 pm Hot take: Isn't it serving us well to stick to the "official" Sundance prizes from 1985 on instead of doing these detective games on the net in search of previous, hardly relevant iterations of the festival? :unsure:
The thing is, these are not earlier iterations. The Utah/US Film Festival was the actual Sundance Film Festival and had the same founders from 1978. It's just arbitrary to start counting in 1985 when a company owned by Redford took control of it. If you want to talk about the actual "official" Sundance award, it didn't actually become the Sundance Film Festival until 1991. In 1985 it just had the same US Film Festival name as it did in since 1981.
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#4066

Post by OldAle1 »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:21 pm
Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:13 pm Hot take: Isn't it serving us well to stick to the "official" Sundance prizes from 1985 on instead of doing these detective games on the net in search of previous, hardly relevant iterations of the festival? :unsure:
The thing is, these are not earlier iterations. The Utah/US Film Festival was the actual Sundance Film Festival and had the same founders from 1978. It's just arbitrary to start counting in 1985 when a company owned by Redford took control of it. If you want to talk about the actual "official" Sundance award, it didn't actually become the Sundance Film Festival until 1991. In 1985 it just had the same US Film Festival name as it did in since 1981.
All this. And it's also I would say valuable to get at the early examples of this fest - and there are probably other fests and prizes out there that are similarly hazy in their early years - because many of them have become quite obscure, and it's good to bring them a little bit more into the daylight. It's kind of astonishing to me that there are less than a dozen people who have a gold on the Sundance list - because a lot of those early films got little or no distribution on video in the 80s, and haven't been widely available since. But having them on lists at least helps make more people aware of them and more effort will be made to keep them alive. At least a little bit more.
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#4067

Post by sol »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:21 pm The thing is, these are not earlier iterations. The Utah/US Film Festival was the actual Sundance Film Festival and had the same founders from 1978. It's just arbitrary to start counting in 1985 when a company owned by Redford took control of it.
Yes, and here's some Old Enough evidence:

Image

Haven't found anything for Circle of Power yet but I'll do some more digging later on because I likewise recall promotional materials/covers that advertised its win.
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#4068

Post by Torgo »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:21 pm
Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:13 pm Hot take: Isn't it serving us well to stick to the "official" Sundance prizes from 1985 on instead of doing these detective games on the net in search of previous, hardly relevant iterations of the festival? :unsure:
The thing is, these are not earlier iterations. The Utah/US Film Festival was the actual Sundance Film Festival and had the same founders from 1978. It's just arbitrary to start counting in 1985 when a company owned by Redford took control of it. If you want to talk about the actual "official" Sundance award, it didn't actually become the Sundance Film Festival until 1991. In 1985 it just had the same US Film Festival name as it did in since 1981.
Okay, granted.
But, continuing my take .. the very Sundance themselves not listing these first titles at their homepage does mean something, huh? A source doesn't get more authoritative than that.
And I know, like OldAle said, that there are a few other festivals which didn't start as big or strict enough like the Academy Awards did and have some greyish areas to where they actually begin. To me, the Sundance case looks like a grey area. Not particularly against it - promoting these old indepedent films is cool - just .. sceptical. You guys seem to be safe at what you're doing.
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#4069

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 11:56 pm
flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:21 pm
Torgo wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:13 pm Hot take: Isn't it serving us well to stick to the "official" Sundance prizes from 1985 on instead of doing these detective games on the net in search of previous, hardly relevant iterations of the festival? :unsure:
The thing is, these are not earlier iterations. The Utah/US Film Festival was the actual Sundance Film Festival and had the same founders from 1978. It's just arbitrary to start counting in 1985 when a company owned by Redford took control of it. If you want to talk about the actual "official" Sundance award, it didn't actually become the Sundance Film Festival until 1991. In 1985 it just had the same US Film Festival name as it did in since 1981.
Okay, granted.
But, continuing my take .. the very Sundance themselves not listing these first titles at their homepage does mean something, huh? A source doesn't get more authoritative than that.
And I know, like OldAle said, that there are a few other festivals which didn't start as big or strict enough like the Academy Awards did and have some greyish areas to where they actually begin. To me, the Sundance case looks like a grey area. Not particularly against it - promoting these old indepedent films is cool - just .. sceptical. You guys seem to be safe at what you're doing.
This is why I always like to get credible/reliable sources before making any changes to (official) lists. I don't advocate updating willy-nilly without being able to provide additional information.

So far, though, I'm inclined to include the ones mentioned thus far. Sure, Sundance itself doesn't have a complete overview, but that doesn't negate which films actually won awards at the time. We're not here to advocate for revisionist history. ;)
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#4070

Post by Fergenaprido »

flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:19 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:58 pm
flavo5000 wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:13 pm

I did some more digging. So the festival actually started in 1978 under the name US/Utah Film Festival and actually awarded two Jury prizes to Weill's Girlfriends (which won top prize) and The Whole Shootin' Match (which received a specially created 2nd place prize). But it looks like they've been giving out grand jury awards since 1978 which means there are several films missing from the list. FYI, Circle of Power was given the Dramatic Film top award at the 1982 festival, not 1984. The reason the Sundance website starts in 1985 is that was the year the Sundance Institute took over the festival. Although Robert Redford was involved from the very beginning back in 1978, and it wasn't actually named the Sundance Film Festival until 1991.

From what I can gather, here's what I've found in summary so far:
1978: Girlfriends (Claudia Weill)
1979: Spirit of the Wind (Ralph Liddle)
1980: No festival held this year
1981:?
1982: Killer of Sheep? (I found an article stating it won 1st prize in 1982) /Circle of Power? (Wikipedia and IMDB lists it as having won the Dramatic Film prize)
1983:?
1984: Old Enough
Could you share your sources? If we have news articles or other definitive information, I think that should be good enough to cite as a reason to update the list.

Old Enough is on the Sundance site, but it's listed in 1982 as a lab film: https://history.sundance.org/films/1708/old_enough (though that might still mean it screened in 1984 since Boys Don't Cry is listed as a lab film from 1997, but came out in 1999: https://history.sundance.org/films/3865/boys_dont_cry - yeah, it's listed in the 1984 festival later)
I was wrong, though, and Circle of Power isn't listed there.
Here's the award summary for the 1985 Festival: https://history.sundance.org/events/20
For 1984, though, no awards are mentioned: https://history.sundance.org/events/19
None of the earlier years have summaries at all.

I found this list on wikipedia of all award winners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... rd_winners
Each year (1984-present) is sourced to the Sundance.org award summary page for that year, but the 1984 link is the same blank one I shared above.

I found this list on wikipedia of all selected films (1978-present): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... selections
Girlfriends is listed as the Jury Prize winner for the Regional Cinema Competition - I don't know if that's the same as the Grand Jury Prize Dramatic, as there are often multiple different jury prizes each year.
Spirit of the Wind is listed as the Grand Prize—Independent Film Competition - this sounds more comparable to Grand Jury Prize Dramatic.
No other films are listed as winners until 1985.
Here's the article on 1978: Chris Hicks Article
On 1979: Chick Hicks on 1979

Here was the source on 1982's Killer of Sheep:
Bottom of Page 97, top of 98
But yea, IMDB lists Circle of Power as the Grand Jury Winner/Dramatic. So I dunno. Maybe both won similar to 1981?

Ah ha! I found 1981's winners:
Roger Ebert on 1981
The top prize was shared by Richard Pearce's "Heartland" and Victor Nunez's "Gal Young Un" according to Roger Ebert himself who was a judge that year (Sayles' Return of the Secaucus Seven won 2nd prize if anyone's curious).

And here's 1983! Looks like IMDB itself has the winner of this one:
IMDB 1983 Utah/US Film Festival winner
Thanks flavo, much appreciated. The 1978, 1979, and 1981 sources all look fine to me. The 1982 source is a bit weird since the text on those two pages in the book don't seem to line up properly. Hopefully an additional source can be found. For 1983, I'd prefer an additional source to the imdb one before making the changes to the icm list. Oh, and the Old Enough source is good enough for me.

Also, curious that one of the 1981 winners had already been doing the festival circuit for a year or two. Different from nowadays when most Sundance films are premieres.

Updated Summary:

1978: Girlfriends (Claudia Weill)
1979: Spirit of the Wind (Ralph Liddle)
1980: No festival held this year
1981: Heartland (Richard Pearce) & Gal Young Un (Victor Nunez)
1982: Killer of Sheep? or Circle of Power?
1983: Purple Haze?
1984: Old Enough

Edit: Forgot about Ale's link. That one says "Charles Burnett’s Killer of Sheep first screened at the 1982 film festival, where it shared the Grand Jury Prize." Searching for Circle of Power turns up nothing though, so what did it share it with?
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#4071

Post by xianjiro »

I'm unclear which of the four "Grand Jury Prize ..."s is/are being featured given the title and intro to the list and the attached source takes us to a secondary source which also lists multiple Grand Jury Prizes. Looking at latter entries on the list, it appears to only be US Dramatic. Should the title and intro be updated to clarify?
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#4072

Post by Fergenaprido »

xianjiro wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 1:08 am I'm unclear which of the four "Grand Jury Prize ..."s is/are being featured given the title and intro to the list and the attached source takes us to a secondary source which also lists multiple Grand Jury Prizes. Looking at latter entries on the list, it appears to only be US Dramatic. Should the title and intro be updated to clarify?
Title no (too long) Intro yes.

And correct, it's US Dramatic only (plus whatever the equivalent was called before).
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#4073

Post by xianjiro »

Fergenaprido wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 2:20 am
xianjiro wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 1:08 am I'm unclear which of the four "Grand Jury Prize ..."s is/are being featured given the title and intro to the list and the attached source takes us to a secondary source which also lists multiple Grand Jury Prizes. Looking at latter entries on the list, it appears to only be US Dramatic. Should the title and intro be updated to clarify?
Title no (too long) Intro yes.

And correct, it's US Dramatic only (plus whatever the equivalent was called before).
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#4074

Post by sol »

Some more about Circle of Power and Sundance. Not an official source, but still: https://unobtainium13.com/2018/01/20/su ... obby-roth/
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#4075

Post by flavo5000 »

sol wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 12:48 pm Some more about Circle of Power and Sundance. Not an official source, but still: https://unobtainium13.com/2018/01/20/su ... obby-roth/
Ah, yea. I knew I saw one that mentioned Circle of Power winning. Just couldn't find the article again.

My guess is that like with '81, it was a shared win between Circle of Power and Killer of Sheep.
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#4076

Post by Fergenaprido »

flavo5000 wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 12:55 pm
sol wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 12:48 pm Some more about Circle of Power and Sundance. Not an official source, but still: https://unobtainium13.com/2018/01/20/su ... obby-roth/
Ah, yea. I knew I saw one that mentioned Circle of Power winning. Just couldn't find the article again.

My guess is that like with '81, it was a shared win between Circle of Power and Killer of Sheep.
Hmm, it's possible. But yeah, it's not an official source nor is it definitive (though I don't doubt her research).
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#4077

Post by sol »

For what it's worth, MUBI also recognises Circle of Power as a Sundance Grand Jury Prize winner: https://mubi.com/films/circle-of-power

Also, if you use the drop-down box, you can go through each year to double-check Sundance info as recognised by MUBI:

https://mubi.com/awards-and-festivals/s ... ?year=1982
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#4078

Post by Fergenaprido »

Yeah, Mubi is crowd-sourced like imdb, though. I've submitted edits and additions to films before.
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#4079

Post by sol »

What about encyclopedia.com?

This articles lists Circle of Power as winning the Grand Jury Prize: https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/ ... bobby-1950
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#4080

Post by Fergenaprido »

sol wrote: April 24th, 2021, 12:23 pm What about encyclopedia.com?

This articles lists Circle of Power as winning the Grand Jury Prize: https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/ ... bobby-1950
That would work, except encyclopedia.com makes no mention of it winning anything at Sundance.
Awards, Honors: Miami International Film Festival awards, best feature film award and best writing, both 1979, for The Boss' Son; Knoke–Heist Festival award, best director, 1983, for Circle of Power; grand prize, USA Film Festival [Dallas], special jury prize, Virgin Islands Film Festival, grand jury prize nomination, Sundance Film Festival, dramatic category, and Golden Berlin Bear Award nomination, Berlin International Film Festival, all 1985, for Heartbreakers; best film award nominations, Mystfest, both 1990, for The Man Inside and Rainbow Drive; President Award, Fort Lauderdale International Film festival, best American indie, 2003, for Manhood.
Circle of Power only won best director at the Knoke-Heist Festival in 1983.
The Sundance grand jury prize is just a nomination, and that's for Heartbreakers in 1985.
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