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Official lists updates

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Fergenaprido
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#4241

Post by Fergenaprido »

Apu wrote: June 8th, 2021, 9:15 pm The original 1974 version, of course.

I don't mind going through the book, it's great fun.
Okay, cool. There were a couple other versions floating around.

How does the original version compare to the pdf: https://monoskop.org/File:Vogel_Amos_Fi ... ve_Art.pdf ?
That's the copy I've been combing through.

Glad you're enjoying the read, anyway. I also found it surprisingly interesting when I started to go through it; I didn't think it would be a subject I would enjoy that much.
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#4242

Post by Apu »

It's extremely similar (probably the identical content). However, that pdf is without an index of films and directors A-Z.

Vogel on Soft Rain (this I pasted from the pdf, but, again, this is identical to the 1974 version):

The primary characteristic of most minimal cinema is the use
of a fixed camera photographing real time. In Ken Jacobs'
Soft Rain (1969), a camera "stares" out of a window onto a
street for about nine minutes (actually, a three-minute
segment repeated three times); nothing is staged; there is
no editing, no camera movement; reality flows by, Zen-like,
and is recorded. The image is mostly still, except for a few
cars and pedestrians; these become events. There is no
aesthetic reason for the film to last nine minutes instead
of ninety; its "form" is the unstructured matrix of reality.
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#4243

Post by Apu »

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/amos ... +1974/apu/

I propose to add these 9 films to the official Vogel list:

Ivan the Terrible Part 2 (page 34)
The Boston Strangler (page 78)
Prune. Flat. (page 82)
Soft Rain (1969) (page 100)
Hortobágy (1937) (page 262)
The Pawnbroker (page 283)
Martin Luther (1953) (page 283)
La Strada (page 283)
La grande bouffe (page 297)

Feel free to copy the list above (I'll make it private eventually). It would be preferable to have the Vogel list sorted after chapters (as in 500 Essential Cult Movies) rather than alphabetical.
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#4244

Post by joachimt »

Fergy, maybe we should let Apu finish the whole book and just copy his list in his proposed order. Since he's enjoying this and doing it thoroughly, no need for you to redo it later. I trust Apu's judgement. And I agree with him about the order of the list.
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#4245

Post by Apu »

Thanks. And yeah, I'm done with the whole book.

What originally annoyed me - and made me want to go through the whole book - was the fact that the icm list had fewer than 600 entries which didn't seem right. On wiki and elsewhere it says: "Film as a Subversive Art is a fully illustrated 1974 film history book by Amos Vogel with mini-essays on over 600 films" - and the list on LB also has over 600 films: https://letterboxd.com/htshell/list/fil ... lete-list/

It should also be specified that the icm list is the original 1974 version since there are later, translated versions with a few additional films (with possibly a few drop-offs).
Last edited by Apu on June 9th, 2021, 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#4246

Post by joachimt »

Ah, nice, I thought you were only halfway or so. Misread I guess. Waiting for Fergy to agree before I go ahead and update.
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#4247

Post by Fergenaprido »

Thanks Apu. Could you give me a few days? I'll have time to look at this more closely on the weekend.
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#4248

Post by Apu »

Sure thing.
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#4249

Post by Apu »

I noticed that the letterboxd list version included Jess Franco's Nachts, wenn Dracula erwacht (1970). That film's title isn't explicitly mentioned in the book, nor is Franco's name. However, Vogel certainly refers to Franco's version in his mini-essay on Cuadecuc, vampir (1971): "A most original work, A hallucinatory montage of unfinished, non-consecutive fragments of scenes photographed on the set of a new Spanish version of Dracula, this sophisticated homage to the vampire film genre transmutes its visual data into a new poetic reality".

I don't think Nachts, wenn Dracula erwacht should be included. Thoughts?
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#4250

Post by Harco »

Harco wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:02 pm F9 and Zhang Yimou's Cliff Walkers will become official when Joachim updates the ATWWBO list.
The next update will see Chinese Zodiac drop off (it will also become unofficial), while A Quiet Place Part II will enter the list.
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#4251

Post by joachimt »

Harco wrote: June 13th, 2021, 2:37 pm
Harco wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:02 pm F9 and Zhang Yimou's Cliff Walkers will become official when Joachim updates the ATWWBO list.
The next update will see Chinese Zodiac drop off (it will also become unofficial), while A Quiet Place Part II will enter the list.
Done
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/a+q ... e+part+ii/
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