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They Shoot Zombies, Don't They?

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Re: They Shoot Zombies, Don't They?

#1081

Post by mightysparks » May 7th, 2019, 3:11 am

Found another duplicate in there which I removed. I added the rest; Chris, are you able to run the duplicate checker to double check? As we've gotten more lists from earlier decades, the 1960s and 1930s now have their own folder rather than being lumped in with 'classics' - I usually wait until a category has more than 5-10 lists before giving it its own folder, they each have 20+ now. Earlier decades are often lumped together by listmakers unfortunately.

I still feel like something is off with the way it's calculated. Some films just outside the list make no sense not being on the list - eg, Killer Klowns From Outer Space. It appears in 33 lists, but still something in 6 lists that is only arguably horror just makes it in. Not really sure what can be done about that tho :shrug:

The latest update sees 46 new films in total. (and a couple more unseen for flavo :P )
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#1082

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » May 7th, 2019, 4:11 am

mightysparks wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 3:11 am
I still feel like something is off with the way it's calculated. Some films just outside the list make no sense not being on the list - eg, Killer Klowns From Outer Space. It appears in 33 lists, but still something in 6 lists that is only arguably horror just makes it in. Not really sure what can be done about that tho :shrug:
I don't know how you're weighting things or calculating things since you've changed it several times. From what I recall it would be some combination of two things: either the lists with KKFOS are weighted lower due to covering less ground or sources etc or your algorithm is saying that through the transitive property comparing which films the 6 list film is ahead of and which ones KKFOS is behind that if those KKFOS voters had seen the 6 list film it would be ranked higher. From what I recall that was kind of the underlying assumption of Chris' algorithm, though I don't know if that's still what you're using or how you adapted it for the purpose of these lists.

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#1083

Post by mightysparks » May 7th, 2019, 4:32 am

Yea I mean the program is doing the right thing, technically, it’s just a few cases like that which make me feel it needs some adjustments somewhere. Just not sure what to adjust.
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#1084

Post by flavo5000 » May 7th, 2019, 3:10 pm

mightysparks wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 3:11 am
Found another duplicate in there which I removed. I added the rest; Chris, are you able to run the duplicate checker to double check? As we've gotten more lists from earlier decades, the 1960s and 1930s now have their own folder rather than being lumped in with 'classics' - I usually wait until a category has more than 5-10 lists before giving it its own folder, they each have 20+ now. Earlier decades are often lumped together by listmakers unfortunately.

I still feel like something is off with the way it's calculated. Some films just outside the list make no sense not being on the list - eg, Killer Klowns From Outer Space. It appears in 33 lists, but still something in 6 lists that is only arguably horror just makes it in. Not really sure what can be done about that tho :shrug:

The latest update sees 46 new films in total. (and a couple more unseen for flavo :P )
:banana:

It seems criminal that Killer Klowns from Outer Space wouldn't be on the list though.

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#1085

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 7th, 2019, 4:35 pm

I took a look at the ranked lists and found 15 duplicates. I don't know if I'd checked thoroughly before, because several of these are websites reposting content under a different title. Anyway, I deleted the duplicate list files and removed them from the Google Spreadsheet.
DuplicatesShow
News.com.au's Ten terrifying horror movies you probably haven’t seen (2015) - 1.5
AskMen's 10 Horror Movies You Probably Haven't Seen (2015) - 1.5

The LineUp's 15 Horror Movies for People Who Have Seen It All (2015) (unranked) - 1.5.csv
Thought Catalog's 15 Horror Movies For People That Have Seen Every Horror Movie (2014) (unranked) - 1.csv

NWE's TOP 10 Les meilleurs films d’horreur à voir ou revoir le soir d’Halloween (2012) - 1.5.csv
Nowhere Else's TOP 10 The best horror films to see or review the Halloween night (2012) - 1.5.csv

22 Words' Ranking of the 10 Most Disturbing Horror Films Ever Made (2018) - 0.25.csv
22 Words' Ranking the 10 Most Disturbing Horror Films Ever Made (2018) - 0.25.csv

13th Floor's The 10 Greatest Made-for-TV Horror Movies of All Time (2017) (unranked) - 0.25.csv
The 13th Floor's The 10 Greatest “Made for TV” Horror Movies of All Time (2017) (unranked) - 0.25.csv

NWE's TOP 10 Les meilleurs films d’horreur à voir ou revoir le soir d’Halloween (2012) - 1.5
Nowhere Else's TOP 10 The best horror films to see or review the Halloween night (2012) - 1.5

CheatSheet's 10 Best Horror Films of All Time (2017) - 1.5.csv
CheatSheet's The Best Horror Films of All Time (2017) - 1.5.csv

Louder than Sound's 10 best horror films (you haven't seen) to watch this Halloween (2018) (unranked) - 1.5.csv
Team Rock's The 10 best horror films (you haven't seen) to watch this Halloween (2015) (unranked) - 1.5.csv

HorrorFreakNews' 100 Best Horror Films (2016) - 4.5.csv
HorrorFreakNews' The Top 100 Best Horror Movies Ever (2016) - 9.csv

NME's The 25 scariest horror films of all time (2017) - 1.5.csv
NME's The 25 scariest horror films of all time (2018) - 1.5.csv

Rotten Tomatoes' 6 Classic Mexican Horror Movies (2015) (unranked) - 0.25.csv
Tomatazo's The best Mexican movies for horror connoisseurs (2015) (unranked) - 0.75.csv

TechGuru's Les 100 meilleurs films d'horreur de tous les temps (2016) - 1.5.csv
Time Out's 100 Best Horror Movies (2016) - 3.csv

Les Ingoruptibles Top 20 best horror movies of all time (2013) - 3.csv
filmsActu's TOP 20 des meilleurs films d'horreur de tous les temps! (2012) - 4.5.csv

Hubpages' 20 of the Best Unknown Horror Movies (2016) (unranked) - 1.5.csv
ReelRundown's 20 of the Best Unknown Horror Movies (2016) (unranked) - 1.5.csv

HorrorNews.net's Top 10 Best French Horror Films (2018) (unranked) - 0.25.csv
HorrorNews.net's Top 10 Best French Horror Films (2019) (unranked) - 0.25.csv

Looking at why Killer Klowns from Outer Space is ranking so low, part of the reason is that it appears mainly on sublists, like "Best Horror of the 80s" and "Best Horror Comedies", and much fewer "Best Horror of All Time" lists. When it does appear, it usually ranks low, e.g. #490 on the Final Girl Shocktoberfest list. Being low ranked on long lists is damaging in this voting system, because the films are ranked so that there's minimum disagreement between the ordering of the individual lists and final aggregated list.

The change that will make the biggest imapct for sublist-heavy films like Killer Klowns is to adjust the weighting so there isn't so much disparity between the types of lists. At the moment the weighting is (All-time: 15, Genres: 2, Regions: 2, Time-periods: 3), but I think it should be more like (All-time: 10, Genres: 5, Regions: 7, Time-periods: 8), or even weighting All-time lists lower for being less focused, like (All-time: 5, Genres: 8, Regions: 7, Time-periods: 8).

Also, you can increase the "Ntries" value to place lower-ranked films more accurately, though this will take proportionally longer time, so use a low NTries for testing, and then a higher one for making the final list. Maybe 200 tries or so, and leave it to run for a few hours.

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#1086

Post by flavo5000 » May 7th, 2019, 9:31 pm

I'd probably go somewhere in the middle like: Alltime: 11, Genre:4, Region: 4, Time-Period: 5 or 6. I think All-time should definitely be ranked higher since this is an all-time aggregate list after all. If the list were something like hidden gems, then sure, rank the other three much higher than all-time.

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#1087

Post by mightysparks » May 7th, 2019, 10:05 pm

Alright, I’ll play around with those values later and see what happens. I was unsure about giving more weight to subset lists but with horror a lot of deserving films slip through the gaps. And there aren’t a lot of big all time lists, so films outside of a top 10 struggle to get good placement.
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#1088

Post by mightysparks » May 8th, 2019, 5:24 am

Man, this thing is so fiddly. Every time I think I've found a good mix, I try it again after a few different mixes and get a totally different result (the bottom 950-1050 or so is the main place I'm checking for movement). Gonna give one of them a shot soon with a high number of ntries and see how it looks.

Also, though I'm reluctant to use a lower all-time value, Chris' suggestion of 5-8-7-8 has actually had one of the nicest resulting lists.
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#1089

Post by mightysparks » May 8th, 2019, 9:25 am

I feel quite happy with this version (making this list public temporarily): https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tszd ... htysparks/ (POTENTIAL LIST SPOILERS)

This is with 8-6-5-7.

The following would drop off and I think it's safe to say the majority of the new additions are upgrades:
MORE LIST SPOILERSShow
Subspecies
Zibahkhana
The Island of Dr. Moreau
Mr. Sardonicus
Pulse
The Uninvited
Gothika
The Asphyx
Frogs
Serial Mom
La corta notte delle bambole di vetro
The Collector
The Village
Eyes of Laura Mars
Chopping Mall
Le frisson des vampires
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers
When a Stranger Calls Back
Ghostwatch
And Soon the Darkness
Jungfrukällan
Tras el cristal
Noroi
Una lucertola con la pelle di donna
Elvira: Mistress of the Dark
The Car
Grave Encounters
Die Säge des Todes
The Creeping Flesh
Zombie Strippers!
Red White & Blue
Paranormal Activity 2
Wake in Fright
Ju-on
Leviathan
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#1090

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 8th, 2019, 11:11 am

mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 9:25 am
I feel quite happy with this version (making this list public temporarily): https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/tszd ... htysparks/ (POTENTIAL LIST SPOILERS)

This is with 8-6-5-7.

The following would drop off and I think it's safe to say the majority of the new additions are upgrades:
MORE LIST SPOILERSShow
Subspecies
Zibahkhana
The Island of Dr. Moreau
Mr. Sardonicus
Pulse
The Uninvited
Gothika
The Asphyx
Frogs
Serial Mom
La corta notte delle bambole di vetro
The Collector
The Village
Eyes of Laura Mars
Chopping Mall
Le frisson des vampires
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers
When a Stranger Calls Back
Ghostwatch
And Soon the Darkness
Jungfrukällan
Tras el cristal
Noroi
Una lucertola con la pelle di donna
Elvira: Mistress of the Dark
The Car
Grave Encounters
Die Säge des Todes
The Creeping Flesh
Zombie Strippers!
Red White & Blue
Paranormal Activity 2
Wake in Fright
Ju-on
Leviathan
The list looks solid. I may take another look at the program over the next year to see if I can get it producing more consistent lists.

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#1091

Post by sol » May 8th, 2019, 11:23 am

mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 9:25 am
The following would drop off and I think it's safe to say the majority of the new additions are upgrades
Do you have a list of the new additions? Clicking the 'New' tab on the iCM list that you have provided includes films like American Mary and Final Destination 2 that are already on the current TSZDT list.

I don't know if I really have an opinion about whether or not this is a change for the better. Some of the worst films that I have ever seen are still on the TSZDT main list while some of the most awesome films that I have ever seen looking like they have no hope of ever returning.

:rip: Satan's Little Helper
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#1092

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 8th, 2019, 11:35 am

sol wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:23 am
mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 9:25 am
The following would drop off and I think it's safe to say the majority of the new additions are upgrades
Do you have a list of the new additions? Clicking the 'New' tab on the iCM list that you have provided includes films like American Mary and Final Destination 2 that are already on the current TSZDT list.

I don't know if I really have an opinion about whether or not this is a change for the better. Some of the worst films that I have ever seen are still on the TSZDT main list while some of the most awesome films that I have ever seen looking like they have no hope of ever returning.

:rip: Satan's Little Helper
New entries would beShow
The Mummy's Curse (1944)
The Wizard of Oz (1939)
Hereditary (2018)
Weird Woman (1944)
The Mummy's Tomb (1942)
Man Made Monster (1941)
The Maze (1953)
The Return of Count Yorga (1971)
A Quiet Place (2018)
The Terror (1963)
Tales from the Hood (1995)
Le pacte des loups (2001)
The Creature Walks Among Us (1956)
The Killer Shrews (1959)
Green Room (2015)
The Invitation (2015)
The Conjuring 2 (2016)
Gok-seong (2016)
The Autopsy of Jane Doe (2016)
Bone Tomahawk (2015)
Attack the Block (2011)
Ich seh ich seh (2014)
Juan de los Muertos (2011)
Haunted (1995)
Westworld (1973)
The Cell (2000)
Zodiac (2007)
The Relic (1997)
The Sadist (1963)
Die Schlangengrube und das Pendel (1967)
Vampire's Kiss (1988)
Body Bags (1993)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)
The Reflecting Skin (1990)
Body Parts (1991)

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#1093

Post by sol » May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am

Thanks. Though I guess I still don't have that much of an opinion because I have no idea how the list would look with different weightings.

Possibly the only thing I'd consider (no idea if it's possible) is to give more weighting to most recently updated lists. I don't know if you have any 'older' lists dating back to last century, but I would think that the more contemporary the list, the broader spectrum of possible films covered or whatnot.
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#1094

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 8th, 2019, 2:16 pm

sol wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am
Thanks. Though I guess I still don't have that much of an opinion because I have no idea how the list would look with different weightings.

Possibly the only thing I'd consider (no idea if it's possible) is to give more weighting to most recently updated lists. I don't know if you have any 'older' lists dating back to last century, but I would think that the more contemporary the list, the broader spectrum of possible films covered or whatnot.
The years that each ballot covers are taken into account so that a ballot's films are not compared against other films that fall outside the years they cover. This stops the accumulation of older lists overwhelming newer films (as has happened on They Shoot Pictures), and prevents lists that ignore older films from overwhelming the list with modern films.

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#1095

Post by flavo5000 » May 8th, 2019, 3:08 pm

Hm... I feel mixed about this update. I am DEEPLY saddened to see Ghostwatch fall off since it's one of my top 20 favorite horror movies, especially when stuff like The Killer Shrews and The Wizard of Oz shows up on the list now.

Although I'm delighted to see Tales from the Hood pop up on there. It's a fun movie;

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#1096

Post by WalterNeff » May 8th, 2019, 5:22 pm

I'm closing in on Bronze (finally!) on this list - I think the update will just add two more (7 instead of 5) to my quest.

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#1097

Post by mightysparks » May 8th, 2019, 11:10 pm

flavo5000 wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 3:08 pm
Hm... I feel mixed about this update. I am DEEPLY saddened to see Ghostwatch fall off since it's one of my top 20 favorite horror movies, especially when stuff like The Killer Shrews and The Wizard of Oz shows up on the list now.

Although I'm delighted to see Tales from the Hood pop up on there. It's a fun movie;
Yea a couple sacrifices to be made unfortunately. I try not to judge the list by how much I like the films but more along the lines of how popular they are within the horror community and how much the list ‘makes sense’. Ghostwatch is definitely one that belongs in there, though it’s relatively underseen/under voted for. As much as I like The Wizard of Oz it’s inclusion annoys me, I think it’s just coz it’s on a few ‘scary for kids lists’. There are still a couple of problems and I can never seem to find the perfect list but I feel this update is an overall improvement. Idk if I’d want to penalize films that aren’t really horror because it would be difficult to enforce fairly.
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#1098

Post by sol » May 9th, 2019, 10:45 am

ChrisReynolds wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:16 pm
sol wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am
Thanks. Though I guess I still don't have that much of an opinion because I have no idea how the list would look with different weightings.

Possibly the only thing I'd consider (no idea if it's possible) is to give more weighting to most recently updated lists. I don't know if you have any 'older' lists dating back to last century, but I would think that the more contemporary the list, the broader spectrum of possible films covered or whatnot.
The years that each ballot covers are taken into account so that a ballot's films are not compared against other films that fall outside the years they cover. This stops the accumulation of older lists overwhelming newer films (as has happened on They Shoot Pictures), and prevents lists that ignore older films from overwhelming the list with modern films.
This is interesting and sounds like a good measure, though it does make me wonder how it is enforced. Do the years get averaged out or does a list of mostly modern films that happens to also include Murnau's Nosferatu automatically get more weight?
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#1099

Post by sol » May 9th, 2019, 10:48 am

mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:10 pm
As much as I like The Wizard of Oz it’s inclusion annoys me, I think it’s just coz it’s on a few ‘scary for kids lists’.
I don't know whether to take you literally or not, I would kind of hope that a list of "scariest films for kids" wouldn't be included in TSZDT - or if it was, it would be weighted at 0.25 or something quite low.
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#1100

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 9th, 2019, 12:53 pm

sol wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 10:45 am
ChrisReynolds wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:16 pm
sol wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am
Thanks. Though I guess I still don't have that much of an opinion because I have no idea how the list would look with different weightings.

Possibly the only thing I'd consider (no idea if it's possible) is to give more weighting to most recently updated lists. I don't know if you have any 'older' lists dating back to last century, but I would think that the more contemporary the list, the broader spectrum of possible films covered or whatnot.
The years that each ballot covers are taken into account so that a ballot's films are not compared against other films that fall outside the years they cover. This stops the accumulation of older lists overwhelming newer films (as has happened on They Shoot Pictures), and prevents lists that ignore older films from overwhelming the list with modern films.
This is interesting and sounds like a good measure, though it does make me wonder how it is enforced. Do the years get averaged out or does a list of mostly modern films that happens to also include Murnau's Nosferatu automatically get more weight?
From the help file:

onlyCompareSampledYears = true
This option weights films to account for lists being biased towards films from certain years. Rather than being fully downweighted if they do not appear in a list, the downweighting is scaled by the binomial probability mass function: pr * (1 - p)(n - r) * nCr; where p = expected appearances of films from this year (the number of unique films from this year in this directory / the total number of unique films in this directory), n = number of films in this ballot, r = number of films from this year in this ballot. This has three benefits: firstly, films on list made in the past will not be considered superior to newer films that were not made when the list was assembled, so lists do not need to downweighted with the passage of time; secondly, ballots that are for a specific set of years do not need to be placed in separate directories (a list of films from 2010-2013 and a list from 2010-2015 can go in the same directory without the films from the first list being considered superior to the films from 2014 and 2015 on the second list (this also allows film festival and awards lists that only cover set periods to be used fairly); thirdly, if voters are not considering older films, older films will not be considered joint-ranked below the ones that were voted for.

I realise this method still has problems, but it's the fairest and most effective one I've found.

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#1101

Post by sol » May 9th, 2019, 1:10 pm

Huh, interesting. Obviously you and Lauren have put a lot of thought and consideration into the process. Not that I ever expected otherwise, mind you, however, some of the giant fluctuations in ratings and films between various editions have made me realise that this is an incredibly volatile list; much more so than They Shoot Pictures, though I suppose that Bill is drawing from a much broader scope of lists, and I take it that once TSZDT reaches a certain number of lists, the most acclaimed films will become less volatile with more repeat entries between different lists and so forth. Eh; I'm rambling. This is certainly an incredibly interesting project and the volatility does admittedly keep things interesting, much like with 500<400 and DTC.
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#1102

Post by mightysparks » May 11th, 2019, 8:16 am

I'm planning on releasing the new edition tomorrow. Everything is pretty much set and ready to go, but I might do a last minute search for lists tonight after work.
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#1103

Post by Nathan Treadway » May 11th, 2019, 9:01 pm

mightysparks wrote:
May 11th, 2019, 8:16 am
I'm planning on releasing the new edition tomorrow. Everything is pretty much set and ready to go, but I might do a last minute search for lists tonight after work.
Had you seen this yet? I wonder if he has anything you don't?:

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#1104

Post by Onderhond » May 11th, 2019, 9:29 pm

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/movi ... hn+milton/

Project isn't finished yet though. Not sure if community lists apply, but if they do I'll give you a heads-up when this is finished.

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#1105

Post by mightysparks » May 11th, 2019, 11:30 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
May 11th, 2019, 9:01 pm
mightysparks wrote:
May 11th, 2019, 8:16 am
I'm planning on releasing the new edition tomorrow. Everything is pretty much set and ready to go, but I might do a last minute search for lists tonight after work.
Had you seen this yet? I wonder if he has anything you don't?:
I saw his last list but I don’t usually use lists that are ratings based (or compiled from metacritic/IMDb ratings etc), so that’s probably where the differences lie.
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#1106

Post by mightysparks » May 12th, 2019, 2:16 pm

The list is now updated: http://theyshootzombies.com/ghf1000/

IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls044317947/


What's the easiest/quickest way to get a list of additions and drop-offs with rankings? Additions are kinda easy I guess by getting the iCM list, but I haven't found an easy way of getting drop-offs.
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OldAle1
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#1107

Post by OldAle1 » May 12th, 2019, 2:30 pm

Looks like I gain 7, cool. Still bronze, still a loooonnng way from silver. Still way too US-dominated IMO but I realize it's no different from other huge lists in that regard. I wasn't always a big supporter of this list but I think it's improved a lot just in the two years I've really paid attention to it. Here's hoping I can help to push an Iranian horror or two into contention in the future...

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#1108

Post by joachimt » May 12th, 2019, 2:40 pm

iCM list is updated.
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#1109

Post by joachimt » May 12th, 2019, 2:44 pm

New entries:
466. The Mummy's Curse (1944)
474. The Wizard of Oz (1939)
475. Hereditary (2018)
621. Weird Woman (1944)
626. The Mummy's Tomb (1942)
634. Man Made Monster (1941)
644. The Maze (1953)
680. The Return of Count Yorga (1971)
681. A Quiet Place (2018)
723. The Terror (1963)
762. Tales from the Hood (1995)
805. Le pacte des loups (2001)
807. The Creature Walks Among Us (1956)
899. The Killer Shrews (1959)
926. Green Room (2015)
927. The Invitation (2015)
928. The Conjuring 2 (2016)
929. Gok-seong (2016)
930. The Autopsy of Jane Doe (2016)
931. Bone Tomahawk (2015)
935. Attack the Block (2011)
937. Ich seh ich seh (2014)
940. Juan de los Muertos (2011)
948. Haunted (1995)
951. Westworld (1973)
953. The Cell (2000)
956. Zodiac (2007)
966. The Relic (1997)
968. The Sadist (1963)
971. Die Schlangengrube und das Pendel (1967)
981. Vampire's Kiss (1988)
994. Body Bags (1993)
996. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)
997. The Reflecting Skin (1990)
998. Body Parts (1991)

Of which are gaining official status:
466. The Mummy's Curse (1944)
621. Weird Woman (1944)
626. The Mummy's Tomb (1942)
634. Man Made Monster (1941)
644. The Maze (1953)
680. The Return of Count Yorga (1971)
723. The Terror (1963)
762. Tales from the Hood (1995)
807. The Creature Walks Among Us (1956)
927. The Invitation (2015)
929. Gok-seong (2016)
930. The Autopsy of Jane Doe (2016)
931. Bone Tomahawk (2015)
937. Ich seh ich seh (2014)
940. Juan de los Muertos (2011)
948. Haunted (1995)
953. The Cell (2000)
966. The Relic (1997)
968. The Sadist (1963)
971. Die Schlangengrube und das Pendel (1967)
994. Body Bags (1993)
996. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)
998. Body Parts (1991)

Drop-offs will follow......
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#1110

Post by joachimt » May 12th, 2019, 2:50 pm

Drops-offs:

887. Noroi (2005)
892. Una lucertola con la pelle di donna (1971)
895. Ghostwatch (1992)
908. Elvira: Mistress of the Dark (1988)
910. The Car (1977)
913. The Creeping Flesh (1973)
914. And Soon the Darkness (1970)
915. Le frisson des vampires (1971)
922. Subspecies (1991)
929. Red White & Blue (2010)
934. Tras el cristal (1986)
945. Wake in Fright (1971)
953. Paranormal Activity 2 (2010)
958. Grave Encounters (2011)
960. Zombie Strippers! (2008)
965. Chopping Mall (1986)
969. The Island of Dr. Moreau (1977)
970. Zibahkhana (2007)
971. Pulse (2006)
973. Leviathan (1989)
975. Mr. Sardonicus (1961)
977. The Uninvited (2009)
979. Gothika (2003)
981. La corta notte delle bambole di vetro (1971)
982. The Collector (1965)
984. Frogs (1972)
985. Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers (1988)
987. The Village (2004)
988. Ju-on (2000)
989. Die Säge des Todes (1981)
990. Serial Mom (1994)
995. Jungfrukällan (1960)
996. Eyes of Laura Mars (1978)
999. The Asphyx (1972)
1000. When a Stranger Calls Back (1993)

Of which are losing official status:

887. Noroi (2005)
892. Una lucertola con la pelle di donna (1971)
908. Elvira: Mistress of the Dark (1988)
910. The Car (1977)
913. The Creeping Flesh (1973)
914. And Soon the Darkness (1970)
915. Le frisson des vampires (1971)
922. Subspecies (1991)
929. Red White & Blue (2010)
953. Paranormal Activity 2 (2010)
958. Grave Encounters (2011)
960. Zombie Strippers! (2008)
965. Chopping Mall (1986)
969. The Island of Dr. Moreau (1977)
970. Zibahkhana (2007)
971. Pulse (2006)
973. Leviathan (1989)
975. Mr. Sardonicus (1961)
977. The Uninvited (2009)
979. Gothika (2003)
981. La corta notte delle bambole di vetro (1971)
985. Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers (1988)
988. Ju-on (2000)
989. Die Säge des Todes (1981)
996. Eyes of Laura Mars (1978)
999. The Asphyx (1972)
1000. When a Stranger Calls Back (1993)
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#1111

Post by mightysparks » May 12th, 2019, 3:10 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Looks like I gain 7, cool. Still bronze, still a loooonnng way from silver. Still way too US-dominated IMO but I realize it's no different from other huge lists in that regard. I wasn't always a big supporter of this list but I think it's improved a lot just in the two years I've really paid attention to it. Here's hoping I can help to push an Iranian horror or two into contention in the future...
Last time I checked there was only one Iranian film that was even nominated once (Fish and Cat?). If there any Iranian horror lists out there then we need ‘em.
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#1112

Post by Onderhond » May 12th, 2019, 3:18 pm

Looks like a downgrade to me. Definitely a bit weird to see Ju-on drop off, as for Wizard of Oz ... :shrug:

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#1113

Post by flavo5000 » May 12th, 2019, 3:22 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Looks like I gain 7, cool. Still bronze, still a loooonnng way from silver. Still way too US-dominated IMO but I realize it's no different from other huge lists in that regard. I wasn't always a big supporter of this list but I think it's improved a lot just in the two years I've really paid attention to it. Here's hoping I can help to push an Iranian horror or two into contention in the future...
What are some Iranian horror suggestions? Ive only seen Fish & Cat, Under the Shadow, The girl who walks home alone at night and ZAR.

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#1114

Post by mightysparks » May 12th, 2019, 3:25 pm

flavo5000 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 3:22 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Looks like I gain 7, cool. Still bronze, still a loooonnng way from silver. Still way too US-dominated IMO but I realize it's no different from other huge lists in that regard. I wasn't always a big supporter of this list but I think it's improved a lot just in the two years I've really paid attention to it. Here's hoping I can help to push an Iranian horror or two into contention in the future...
What are some Iranian horror suggestions? Ive only seen Fish & Cat, Under the Shadow, The girl who walks home alone at night and ZAR.
Wow Under the Shadow is classified as UK on IMDb and Girl as USA :/ whyyy
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#1115

Post by monclivie » May 12th, 2019, 3:42 pm

sol wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 10:48 am
mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:10 pm
As much as I like The Wizard of Oz it’s inclusion annoys me, I think it’s just coz it’s on a few ‘scary for kids lists’.
I don't know whether to take you literally or not, I would kind of hope that a list of "scariest films for kids" wouldn't be included in TSZDT - or if it was, it would be weighted at 0.25 or something quite low.
Yes, this ultimate canonical top 1000 has lists like "11 horror films it’s safe to watch with your kids", ”Ten Kid Friendly Horror Movies” and "30 Halloween Movies for children" as its source.

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#1116

Post by mightysparks » May 12th, 2019, 3:44 pm

monclivie wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 3:42 pm
sol wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 10:48 am
mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:10 pm
As much as I like The Wizard of Oz it’s inclusion annoys me, I think it’s just coz it’s on a few ‘scary for kids lists’.
I don't know whether to take you literally or not, I would kind of hope that a list of "scariest films for kids" wouldn't be included in TSZDT - or if it was, it would be weighted at 0.25 or something quite low.
Yes, this ultimate canonical top 1000 has lists like "11 horror films it’s safe to watch with your kids", ”Ten Kid Friendly Horror Movies” or "30 Halloween Movies for children" as its source.
Children are people too, kids/PG horror films are often gateway films for horror fans, no reason they shouldn’t be included. And 3 out of 2614 lists is really not a massive selection (I know there are a few more PG lists but it still is not a huge chunk). And yes they are weighted as 0.25.
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#1117

Post by OldAle1 » May 12th, 2019, 3:52 pm

flavo5000 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 3:22 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Looks like I gain 7, cool. Still bronze, still a loooonnng way from silver. Still way too US-dominated IMO but I realize it's no different from other huge lists in that regard. I wasn't always a big supporter of this list but I think it's improved a lot just in the two years I've really paid attention to it. Here's hoping I can help to push an Iranian horror or two into contention in the future...
What are some Iranian horror suggestions? Ive only seen Fish & Cat, Under the Shadow, The girl who walks home alone at night and ZAR.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/the+pig/ (and that's my review)

I saw it at a festival - but a small regional festival; unfortunately Iranian films that don't show at Cannes/Berlin/Venice/Rotterdam/etc seem to just disappear into the ether much of the time - so their chances of making it onto lists isn't high. And a lot of them never seem to show up on video, whether streaming or DVD/BD, at least not here. This one I think could potentially gain some traction for it's strangeness and it's creative filmmaking, though it's certainly not mainstream horror - as much comedy as horror really. It'll be on my horror list this fall and if it does become available in some way I'll try to push it, I'd think that even people who don't love it will at least appreciate that it's something different from the endless sequels, remakes and found footage on the lower end of Hollywood horror today.

There were also some horror films in the pre-revolutionary days but none of those are even as widely available as newer films and I can't imagine any of them will ever show up on any lists.

EDIT - looking now I see that this did play at Berlin in competition, that's something. And it won an award at the Strasbourg European Fantastic Film Festival - I know I've seen that mentioned before, maybe on this forum or maybe on IMDb. So perhaps there is hope for some kind of wider release or for it to get on some peoples' radar.

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#1118

Post by ChrisReynolds » May 12th, 2019, 6:04 pm

monclivie wrote:
May 12th, 2019, 3:42 pm
sol wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 10:48 am
mightysparks wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 11:10 pm
As much as I like The Wizard of Oz it’s inclusion annoys me, I think it’s just coz it’s on a few ‘scary for kids lists’.
I don't know whether to take you literally or not, I would kind of hope that a list of "scariest films for kids" wouldn't be included in TSZDT - or if it was, it would be weighted at 0.25 or something quite low.
Yes, this ultimate canonical top 1000 has lists like "11 horror films it’s safe to watch with your kids", ”Ten Kid Friendly Horror Movies” and "30 Halloween Movies for children" as its source.
Why is this bad? They Shoot Pictures Don't They uses lists like "The Telegraph's Top 20 Children's Films", "10 Great Films About Children in Wartime", "10 Great Films Based on Classic Children's Books", etc. as its source. It even has weirder ones like "Five Key Dog Films" and "Top 40 Movies Filmed in Chicago", and I'm certain that TSZDT has a better method of comparing all the lists against each other.

And the Wizard of Oz doesn't just appear in children's horror lists. It appears in lists of best Witch films and on lists of scariest scenes. Plenty of people count the Witch of the West and the flying monkeys among their scariest formative cinema experiences.

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#1119

Post by Nathan Treadway » May 12th, 2019, 6:24 pm

While it's an odd placement, I can actually see Wizard of Oz being considered a horror film. I mean, after all, it's essentially a nightmare.

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#1120

Post by albajos » May 12th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Return to Oz is a nightmare.

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