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Action Movie A-Z - under the wrong tab?

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dinmor
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Action Movie A-Z - under the wrong tab?

#1

Post by dinmor »

Why does this list go under the "Critics" tab? 500 essential cult movies is also a book, yet it's located under the "miscellaneous" tab.

Maybe it's just me, but it often seems that new lists get added to the wrong tab.

In short, move the Action 250 to "Miscellaneous".

Thanks.
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#2

Post by Torgo »

I approve that. It just feels wrong there with its amount of Seagal- and van-Damme-movies. ;)

A fitting solution would be an implementation of the often claimed genre tab. :thumbsup:
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#3

Post by dinmor »

Yeah Torgo it's weird isn't it.

Can someone please explain why "500 essential cult movies" isn't listed under "Critics" when the Action A-Z-list is?
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#4

Post by Gershwin »

Nope, we don't have anything to do with that. Ask the guys.
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#5

Post by mjf314 »

dinmor on Jan 7 2014, 08:50:36 PM wrote:Yeah Torgo it's weird isn't it.

Can someone please explain why "500 essential cult movies" isn't listed under "Critics" when the Action A-Z-list is?
Maybe because the author of Action Movie A-Z is a critic, and the author of 500 Essential Cult Movies isn't a critic.
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#6

Post by brokenface »

mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 06:45:11 AM wrote:
dinmor on Jan 7 2014, 08:50:36 PM wrote:Yeah Torgo it's weird isn't it.

Can someone please explain why "500 essential cult movies" isn't listed under "Critics" when the Action A-Z-list is?
Maybe because the author of Action Movie A-Z is a critic, and the author of 500 Essential Cult Movies isn't a critic.
what exactly is the tipping point between critic and non-critic? publishing a guide book to a genre of films is an act of film criticism, surely?
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#7

Post by mjf314 »

brokenface on Jan 8 2014, 06:54:19 AM wrote:
mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 06:45:11 AM wrote:
dinmor on Jan 7 2014, 08:50:36 PM wrote:Yeah Torgo it's weird isn't it.

Can someone please explain why "500 essential cult movies" isn't listed under "Critics" when the Action A-Z-list is?
Maybe because the author of Action Movie A-Z is a critic, and the author of 500 Essential Cult Movies isn't a critic.
what exactly is the tipping point between critic and non-critic? publishing a guide book to a genre of films is an act of film criticism, surely?
Not necessarily, but I just looked at the 500 Essential Cult Movies book, and she does review each film, so I guess that makes her a critic.

When I googled the names of the authors, I was able to find something that said the action author was a critic, but I couldn't find something like that for the cult author.
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#8

Post by mjf314 »

Torgo on Dec 30 2013, 03:05:01 PM wrote:A fitting solution would be an implementation of the often claimed genre tab. :thumbsup:
I think this is clearly the best solution. Many people have suggested it but the guys haven't added it yet.
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#9

Post by bal3x »

genre tab ftw!
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#10

Post by dinmor »

mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 07:05:21 AM wrote:
brokenface on Jan 8 2014, 06:54:19 AM wrote:
mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 06:45:11 AM wrote:Maybe because the author of Action Movie A-Z is a critic, and the author of 500 Essential Cult Movies isn't a critic.
what exactly is the tipping point between critic and non-critic? publishing a guide book to a genre of films is an act of film criticism, surely?
Not necessarily, but I just looked at the 500 Essential Cult Movies book, and she does review each film, so I guess that makes her a critic.
exactly, mjf. Cult Movies is also a critic's list. There are three solutions: add a genre tab, move cult movies to critics, or move Action A-Z to miscellaneous.
Last edited by dinmor on January 8th, 2014, 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#11

Post by ErikSchierboom »

mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 07:07:02 AM wrote:
Torgo on Dec 30 2013, 03:05:01 PM wrote:A fitting solution would be an implementation of the often claimed genre tab. :thumbsup:
I think this is clearly the best solution. Many people have suggested it but the guys haven't added it yet.
Well, adding a genre tab would make the progress page more cluttered, but aside from the practicalities what would be your ideal way to category the lists? Should we lose existing categories or add new ones (besides the genre tab)?

And what current lists do you feel are categorized incorrectly?
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#12

Post by karmacarroll »

Being the best list on the website, it can go wherever it likes if you ask me :)
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#13

Post by brokenface »

could merge director with critics perhaps, as there is not many & they are essentially acting as critics..

quite a few in the website section would make more sense under a genre tab (Martial Arts, Westerns, Noir*2, Sci-Fi, Horror, Spaghetti Westerns) also perhaps the AFI Laughs, Thrills, Passions, Cheers, and the BFI screen guides.
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#14

Post by mjf314 »

ErikSchierboom on Jan 8 2014, 01:01:13 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 07:07:02 AM wrote:
Torgo on Dec 30 2013, 03:05:01 PM wrote:A fitting solution would be an implementation of the often claimed genre tab. :thumbsup:
I think this is clearly the best solution. Many people have suggested it but the guys haven't added it yet.
Well, adding a genre tab would make the progress page more cluttered, but aside from the practicalities what would be your ideal way to category the lists? Should we lose existing categories or add new ones (besides the genre tab)?

And what current lists do you feel are categorized incorrectly?
If it was up to me, I would do a big reshuffling of all the categories. I would get rid of websites, institutes, and miscellaneous, add general, genres, and time periods, and merge directors and critics.

Some lists don't fit perfectly into a category so they might be debatable, but it would look something like this:
General
1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die
366 Weird Movies (Certified Weird)
50 Greatest Sequels
Ain't Nobody's Blues But My Own
All Time Box Office
Anthology Film Archives' Essential Cinema
Best Of Rotten Tomatoes
Cahiers du cinéma 100
Criterion's Eclipse Collection
Doubling the Canon
Empire 500
FilmTotaal top 250
FOK! top 250
Harvard University's Suggested Film Viewing List: Narrative Films (2012)
iCheckMovies - Most Checked
iCheckMovies - Most Favorite
iCM Forum's 500<400
Masters Of Cinema
MovieSense 101
Reddit top 250
Sight and Sound 2012 - Combined List
Taschen 100 All-time favorite movies
The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema
The Best 1,000 Movies Ever Made
The British Film Institute: 360 Classics
The Criterion Collection
They Shoot Pictures, Don't They?
Top 100 Spiritually Significant Films
Total Film's 50 Amazing Films You've Probably Never Seen
Genres
100 Animated Feature Films (BFI Screen Guides)
100 Classic Martial Arts Films
100 Documentary Films (BFI Screen Guide)
100 Essential Westerns
100 Musicals (BFI Screen Guide)
250 Quintessential Noir Films
500 Essential Cult Movies
501 Must See Movies
Action! The Action Movie A-Z
Badmovies.org Best B-Movies
Best Cartoons Ever - A Gift List From Jerry Beck
Brief Encounters
Harvard University's Suggested Film Viewing List: Non-Fiction Films (2012)
More Noirs from TSPDT
Spaghetti Westerns
The 100 Greatest Sci-Fi Movies
The Deuce Top 20
The New Cult Canon
Top 100 Animated Features of All Time
Top 500 Horror Movies
Time Periods
A.V. Club - The best films of the '00s
Cahiers du cinéma - Yearly top 10s
The Top 300 Silent Era Films
The 21st Century's Most Acclaimed Films
Silent but not Forgotten: The best silent films
Critics/directors:
Everything currently on the critic/director tabs except 1001 Before You Die, Times 1000, Action A-Z, and Silent but not Forgotten (in other words, only lists that were made by a single person).

Countries:
Everything currently on the countries tab + National Film Registry.

366 Weird Movies, Anthology Film Archive, and Spiritually Significant could possibly go in Genres. They're a little bit genre-ish but they include movies from all genres so I put them in General. Also I guess the cult lists could go in either General or Genres.

I'm not sure about The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema.

I put 501 Must See Movies in Genres because it's divided into sections for different genres.

Some of the AFI lists could possibly go in Genres, but I think it's less confusing to keep all of them together.
Last edited by mjf314 on January 8th, 2014, 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#15

Post by serri »

mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 02:02:18 PM wrote:366 Weird Movies, Anthology Film Archive, and Spiritually Significant could possibly go in Genres.
That's really not the point of the AFA list. What would be the Spiritually Significant genre?
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#16

Post by brokenface »

Serriform on Jan 8 2014, 03:10:19 PM wrote:What would be the Spiritually Significant genre?
Godsploitation
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#17

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

brokenface on Jan 8 2014, 03:13:46 PM wrote:
Serriform on Jan 8 2014, 03:10:19 PM wrote:What would be the Spiritually Significant genre?
Godsploitation
:lol:
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#18

Post by mjf314 »

Serriform on Jan 8 2014, 03:10:19 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 02:02:18 PM wrote:366 Weird Movies, Anthology Film Archive, and Spiritually Significant could possibly go in Genres.
That's really not the point of the AFA list. What would be the Spiritually Significant genre?
The AFA list partially focuses on experimental cinema, but it's not the criteria that was used to make the list, so it's not a genre list. Also I guess it's debatable if experimental is a genre. Spiritually significant isn't a genre, it's just a common theme (religious themes, or themes somewhat related to religion in the opinion of the list creator). I called it genre-ish because it's not a general list.
Last edited by mjf314 on January 8th, 2014, 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#19

Post by Torgo »

ErikSchierboom on Jan 8 2014, 01:01:13 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Jan 8 2014, 07:07:02 AM wrote:
Torgo on Dec 30 2013, 03:05:01 PM wrote:A fitting solution would be an implementation of the often claimed genre tab. :thumbsup:
I think this is clearly the best solution. Many people have suggested it but the guys haven't added it yet.
Well, adding a genre tab would make the progress page more cluttered, but aside from the practicalities what would be your ideal way to category the lists? Should we lose existing categories or add new ones (besides the genre tab)?

And what current lists do you feel are categorized incorrectly?
At first, thanks for your post, Erik! I'm happy to see you Guys partake in these discussions. :thumbsup:

I wouldn't suppose such drastical changes as mjf314 ;) . An easy suggestion to clean-up the categories without cluttering the tabs:
- Add a genre tab and move every genre-list there (most are obvious), including the Action list and the Cult list. 501 movies also fits there very neatly.
- If you move the Taschen and Cartoon list somewhere else (maybe Institute/Critic for the former and once again genres for the latter, as Cartoon kinda is a genre, too). This way you get rid of the Miscellaneous tab at all!


Further changes can be deliberated for iCM 3.0 and beyond, but until now, I think this would help cleaning up the categories greatly and improve the iCM experience. I can see myself even working more on genres if I get to have them all at one sight and notice staggering omissions. :lol:

But again, thanks for reading!
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#20

Post by ErikSchierboom »

Thanks for the feedback! Perhaps a somewhat larger reshuffle is preferable, I'll discuss it with the guys. I'll keep you updated.
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#21

Post by bal3x »

Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them? I mean these categorization discussions are always rather futile, (I never understood a "website" and "miscellaneous" categories anyway) since there are actually 3 categories that are rock solid - IMDb (would be happy to see these gone too in fact considering what's going on there with those lists, save Top 250 and Box Office Mojo), Country and Awards. ALL the rest are debatable. Just sort lists alphabetically (or by favorites?) - problem solved :)
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#22

Post by brokenface »

bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:12:32 AM wrote:Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them? I mean these categorization discussions are always rather futile, (I never understood a "website" and "miscellaneous" categories anyway) since there are actually 3 categories that are rock solid - IMDb (would be happy to see these gone too in fact considering what's going on there with those lists, save Top 250 and Box Office Mojo), Country and Awards. ALL the rest are debatable. Just sort lists alphabetically (or by favorites?) - problem solved :)
I find the categories useful for finding lists quicker. A-Z of 100+ lists is not easy to navigate, esp if you have to remember how the title is worded.
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#23

Post by bal3x »

brokenface on Jan 9 2014, 08:17:09 AM wrote:
bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:12:32 AM wrote:Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them? I mean these categorization discussions are always rather futile, (I never understood a "website" and "miscellaneous" categories anyway) since there are actually 3 categories that are rock solid - IMDb (would be happy to see these gone too in fact considering what's going on there with those lists, save Top 250 and Box Office Mojo), Country and Awards. ALL the rest are debatable. Just sort lists alphabetically (or by favorites?) - problem solved :)
I find the categories useful for finding lists quicker. A-Z of 100+ lists is not easy to navigate, esp if you have to remember how the title is worded.
I see, but remember that new lists are being added on a regular basis and as such categorization will get even more difficult and it will still become harder to navigate anyway even with the tabs, just a thought. I just find these categorization discussions are always ongoing and no solution has been found yet.
Last edited by bal3x on January 9th, 2014, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#24

Post by jvv »

bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:19:08 AM wrote:
brokenface on Jan 9 2014, 08:17:09 AM wrote:
bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:12:32 AM wrote:Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them? I mean these categorization discussions are always rather futile, (I never understood a "website" and "miscellaneous" categories anyway) since there are actually 3 categories that are rock solid - IMDb (would be happy to see these gone too in fact considering what's going on there with those lists, save Top 250 and Box Office Mojo), Country and Awards. ALL the rest are debatable. Just sort lists alphabetically (or by favorites?) - problem solved :)
I find the categories useful for finding lists quicker. A-Z of 100+ lists is not easy to navigate, esp if you have to remember how the title is worded.
I see, but remember that new lists are being added on a regular basis and as such categorization will get even more difficult and it will still become harder to navigate anyway even with the tabs, just a thought. I just find these categorization discussions are always ongoing and no solution has been found yet.
Finding lists would be easier if we got a feature from ICM version 1 back; the ability to hide lists you're not interested in. ^_^
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#25

Post by bal3x »

jvv on Jan 9 2014, 08:31:27 AM wrote:
bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:19:08 AM wrote:
brokenface on Jan 9 2014, 08:17:09 AM wrote:I find the categories useful for finding lists quicker. A-Z of 100+ lists is not easy to navigate, esp if you have to remember how the title is worded.
I see, but remember that new lists are being added on a regular basis and as such categorization will get even more difficult and it will still become harder to navigate anyway even with the tabs, just a thought. I just find these categorization discussions are always ongoing and no solution has been found yet.
Finding lists would be easier if we got a feature from ICM version 1 back; the ability to hide lists you're not interested in. ^_^
+1
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#26

Post by mjf314 »

bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:12:32 AM wrote:Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them?
I use the categories. If I'm looking for a particular list, it's easier to find it among 20-30 lists than 155. I remember what category most of the lists are in, but some of them I forget. I also like the country tab so I can quickly see my progress on the country lists, so I know which are my strongest and weakest countries.
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#27

Post by bal3x »

mjf314 on Jan 9 2014, 08:47:21 AM wrote:
bal3x on Jan 9 2014, 08:12:32 AM wrote:Radical suggestion: why not get rid of categories all together? Are they actually useful? Are people using them?
I use the categories. If I'm looking for a particular list, it's easier to find it among 20-30 lists than 155. I remember what category most of the lists are in, but some of them I forget. I also like the country tab so I can quickly see my progress on the country lists, so I know which are my strongest and weakest countries.
Right, but would you miss the categories if the feature to ignore lists was added? Perhaps that is indeed the compromise as in that case people can choose what they are interested in and follow the progress easily. But that's just what I said - there are 3 category tabs that are solid - country is one of them. The others are unclear and I never remember which category a particular list is under it actually takes even more time than finding it under ALL lists...
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#28

Post by ErikSchierboom »

Ditching them altogether is another option, categorizing is notoriously fickly especially when there is only one category. Piet has some ideas on how we could better handle this is our redesigned website. We'll see how that works out. Once again, thanks for the feedback.
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#29

Post by bal3x »

ErikSchierboom on Jan 9 2014, 09:53:32 AM wrote:Ditching them altogether is another option, categorizing is notoriously fickly especially when there is only one category. Piet has some ideas on how we could better handle this is our redesigned website. We'll see how that works out. Once again, thanks for the feedback.
:thumbsup:
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#30

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

The point of categories isn't to find a specific list you want, Ctrl-F on the big list should be quicker. The point of categories is discoverability for people who don't know what lists are out there and want to find on a specific type of list. I don't use them at all since I know all the lists, but I don't think removing categories is a good idea and I think categorization should be consistent and more categories might be a good idea. Perhaps a (admin curated, not user curated) tagging system where the category tabs are replaced by filters that can be applied in conjunction with each other may be a way forward as more lists are added, though at the moment I think an extra category or two like people have been suggesting should be fine.

This is one of those features power users are going to use less than more sporadic users, so it's important to keep them in mind.
Last edited by PeacefulAnarchy on January 9th, 2014, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#31

Post by bal3x »

PeacefulAnarchy on Jan 9 2014, 10:26:10 AM wrote:The point of categories isn't to find a specific list you want, Ctrl-F on the big list should be quicker. The point of categories is discoverability for people who don't know what lists are out there and want to find on a specific type of list. I don't use them at all since I know all the lists, but I don't think removing categories is a good idea and I think categorization should be consistent and more categories might be a good idea. Perhaps a (admin curated, not user curated) tagging system where the category tabs are replaced by filters that can be applied in conjunction with each other may be a way forward as more lists are added, though at the moment I think an extra category or two like people have been suggesting should be fine.

This is one of those features power users are going to use less than more sporadic users, so it's important to keep them in mind.
This is all very true yet we don't know how and if people are actually using the current categories and I think such categories as "websites" and "miscellaneous" really don't add any clarity whatsoever, in fact quite the opposite. I'm fine either way so personally I'm not bothered if these categories are there. I trust The Guys will arrive at a proper solution.
Last edited by bal3x on January 9th, 2014, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#32

Post by ErikSchierboom »

We'll keep you updated once we have something new here (which might take a while).
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#33

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Oh I agree that the current categorization is not ideal, just wanted to make the point that the goal should be to fix them, not scrap them. I don't know how others use them, but I do know how I used them for my first year on the site, of course there were fewer lists back then. But like you as long as we keep the big progress list with everything any changes won't affect me much either way.
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#34

Post by Torgo »

ErikSchierboom wrote: January 9th, 2014, 5:42 pm We'll keep you updated once we have something new here (which might take a while).
Alright, Erik! Just let us know when the while is over.

:whistling:
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#35

Post by joachimt »

Torgo wrote: November 3rd, 2020, 1:49 am
ErikSchierboom wrote: January 9th, 2014, 5:42 pm We'll keep you updated once we have something new here (which might take a while).
Alright, Erik! Just let us know when the while is over.

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