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The quest to rescue the IMDb lists

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WalterNeff
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The quest to rescue the IMDb lists

#761

Post by WalterNeff » March 2nd, 2017, 11:56 pm

I'd be fine with either 100 Best Westerns, with a slight edge to the BFI list, since, as mentioned, we use those lists elsewhere, and I would be in favor of adopting Kas's list as a larger genre list. I would be against removing the Spaghetti Western list.

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#762

Post by Cippenham » March 3rd, 2017, 12:03 am

WalterNeff on Mar 2 2017, 04:56:48 PM wrote:I'd be fine with either 100 Best Westerns, with a slight edge to the BFI list, since, as mentioned, we use those lists elsewhere, and I would be in favor of adopting Kas's list as a larger genre list. I would be against removing the Spaghetti Western list.
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#763

Post by max-scl » March 3rd, 2017, 12:20 am

I like both. BFI seems like a good guide and more comprehensive in terms of the variations the genre can have (please correct me if I am wrong about this). The Paste one look very good and it's cool that it's ranked. I say adopt both and remove the Essential Western list and the Western Imdb list. B)
Last edited by max-scl on March 3rd, 2017, 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#764

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 3rd, 2017, 12:48 am

The Western imdb list won't be removed unless we remove the other imdb lists, they're a package deal. I personally don't care much for the Spaghetti Western list, but I don't see any particular reason to unadopt it. It's a reasonable size for its genre and while the source isn't one I'd favour it's not bad enough to unadopt.

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#765

Post by WalterNeff » March 3rd, 2017, 2:00 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Mar 2 2017, 05:48:45 PM wrote:The Western imdb list won't be removed unless we remove the other imdb lists, they're a package deal. I personally don't care much for the Spaghetti Western list, but I don't see any particular reason to unadopt it. It's a reasonable size for its genre and while the source isn't one I'd favour it's not bad enough to unadopt.
Why do we have to view the IMDb lists as a package deal? We know they are broken. I see the decades lists as one batch, that a single solution could fit (with possibly an exception for the 1910s list) and the genre lists as lists that can be tackled as a solution presents itself, as it has here for the Western list.

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#766

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 3rd, 2017, 2:42 am

Since when are you in favour of unadopting a list? I suppose we can separate the decades and the genres, but it seems weird to me to say "this genre already has another official list, so let's discard it but this other genre doesn't so let's keep it" either the imdb list process is good enough for officialdom or it isn't.

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#767

Post by WalterNeff » March 3rd, 2017, 3:16 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Mar 2 2017, 07:42:52 PM wrote:Since when are you in favour of unadopting a list? I suppose we can separate the decades and the genres, but it seems weird to me to say "this genre already has another official list, so let's discard it but this other genre doesn't so let's keep it" either the imdb list process is good enough for officialdom or it isn't.
I've always been in favor of fixing the IMDb lists, which by definition means they would be unadopted. We might lose a few official checks in the genre lists, but that's what the iCM Orphan's Home is for.

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#768

Post by mjf314 » March 3rd, 2017, 4:33 am

I think the IMDb forum's western list should be replaced (I guess either BFI Screen Guides or 100 Western Masterpieces; I don't know which one is better).

I think the Spaghetti Western list should remain official.

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#769

Post by MMDan » March 3rd, 2017, 5:59 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Mar 2 2017, 05:48:45 PM wrote:The Western imdb list won't be removed unless we remove the other imdb lists, they're a package deal. I personally don't care much for the Spaghetti Western list, but I don't see any particular reason to unadopt it. It's a reasonable size for its genre and while the source isn't one I'd favour it's not bad enough to unadopt.
I don't see any reason to unadopt the Spaghetti Western list since I just got bronze on it :folded:


And I think Spaghetti Westerns are different enough to merit their own list.

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#770

Post by joachimt » March 3rd, 2017, 9:47 am

mjf314 on Mar 2 2017, 09:33:07 PM wrote:I think the IMDb forum's western list should be replaced (I guess either BFI Screen Guides or 100 Western Masterpieces; I don't know which one is better).

I think the Spaghetti Western list should remain official.
I agree.
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#771

Post by Panunzio » March 4th, 2017, 3:22 pm

dirty_score on Mar 2 2017, 04:37:12 PM wrote:Paste's 100 Best Western Movies

and if you please get rid of the spaghetti list as well. :shoot:

Also, i believe Kasparius would be honored: How The West Was Shot :cowboy:
I quite like this Paste list, and it doesn't seem to be listed on iCM. Would you mind if I added it?

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#772

Post by dirty_score » March 4th, 2017, 7:36 pm

Panunzio on Mar 4 2017, 08:22:00 AM wrote:I quite like this Paste list, and it doesn't seem to be listed on iCM. Would you mind if I added it?
Not at all! I can't create more lists, so go ahead! :)

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#773

Post by xianjiro » March 4th, 2017, 9:34 pm

Onderhond on Feb 28 2017, 06:54:57 PM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Feb 28 2017, 06:49:54 PM wrote:Also saner genre definitions is never going to happen because that part is up to imdb. But there has definitely been discussion about that around these parts. Probably even in this thread.
Yeah, I figured as much.

Might read through some of the older pages, it's interesting to see how far people are willing to go to maul lists to accommodate their own taste :)
oy vey! dunno why IMDb can't add something to their algorithm to deal with the vote spam. At the other end of the scale we have Gunday (2014) which suffered from an aggressive downvote campaign by Bangladeshi nationals. It has hundreds of repeated 'reviews' that read like the following:
representative Gunday reviewShow
User Reviews (Review this title)
43 out of 51 people found the following review useful.
History Distortion, 19 February 2014
Author: mostafigar_sakil from Dhaka, Bangladesh
This is one of those worst movies you can hardy digest which are full of historically inappropriate, inaccurate and dumb events!!! All most all the historians found this speculation about the great Liberation War of Bangladesh way too hard to swallow given that, at the time the film is set- it was an India-Pakistan war happened in 1971!! Similarly, this terrible film often humiliates the Bangladeshis, on several sights. It depicted that people of Bangladesh were involved in various criminal activities during the liberation war when in reality; they had been fighting for the liberation of their motherland. Furthermore, the movie awfully exaggerated the situation in 1971 portraying that the Bangladeshi used to talk in Hindi! My foot! It's a matter of great pity when some dumb & numb scriptwriters portrayed the Bangladeshis as Hindi- Speaking Nation, who are the only brave nation who had shed their bloods for claiming their mother tongue back in 1952! Such is the state and height of historically inaccuracy and dumbness! Poor dumb ass YashRajFilms!!! Better start selling pinup magazines on the street - I mean it!
And while this problem - with this film, but I'm sure there are others - has been brought to IMDb's attention, nothing happens. They don't even delete the accounts that contain one vote and one review, but they did make setting up new accounts more difficult.

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#774

Post by Gershwin » April 14th, 2017, 9:32 pm

I happened to be looking at the top 250 again, after months or maybe even years. Looks like half of my (26) unchecked movies are now Bollywood crap. Any chance they will disappear?
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#775

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 14th, 2017, 9:38 pm

Not likely. The Top 250 is imdb's domain and they've gone all in on that. A number of them seem to be on the bottom end of the list, so those may get pushed out with some downvoting + new films entering but the high ranking ones look here to stay.

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#776

Post by albajos » April 14th, 2017, 9:39 pm

India is the biggest movie producer in the world. It makes sense there are some on the list.

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#777

Post by Tasselfoot » April 15th, 2017, 1:39 am

albajos on Apr 14 2017, 03:39:50 PM wrote:India is the biggest movie producer in the world. It makes sense there are some on the list.
That logic doesn't make sense. Quantity does not equal quality. Nigeria is the 2nd largest producer of films... so they should have some in the top250 too, right?

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#778

Post by albajos » April 15th, 2017, 7:17 am

Tasselfoot on Apr 14 2017, 07:39:19 PM wrote:
albajos on Apr 14 2017, 03:39:50 PM wrote:India is the biggest movie producer in the world. It makes sense there are some on the list.
That logic doesn't make sense. Quantity does not equal quality. Nigeria is the 2nd largest producer of films... so they should have some in the top250 too, right?
They probably should, but imdb is all about access to internet. And Nigeria is lacking in that department.

The point is India produces the most movies. Close to 2000 yearly, so there should be some sporadic quality there, anyway IMDB is a list of favorite movies, not objectively quality movies, so the country which sell the most cinema tickets in the world would of course easily manage to get the number of votes needed to get into Top250.

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#779

Post by mjf314 » April 15th, 2017, 7:36 am

Gershwin on Apr 14 2017, 03:32:00 PM wrote:I happened to be looking at the top 250 again, after months or maybe even years. Looks like half of my (26) unchecked movies are now Bollywood crap. Any chance they will disappear?
How do you know that they're crap? They might be masterpieces for all you know.

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#780

Post by Gershwin » April 15th, 2017, 7:23 pm

mjf314 on Apr 15 2017, 01:36:50 AM wrote:
Gershwin on Apr 14 2017, 03:32:00 PM wrote:I happened to be looking at the top 250 again, after months or maybe even years. Looks like half of my (26) unchecked movies are now Bollywood crap. Any chance they will disappear?
How do you know that they're crap? They might be masterpieces for all you know.
I'm relying on critics, friends and fellow iCM members whose tastes I trust. Some of them saw a bunch of these films, and when they say they're crap, I'm almost sure they are. But not completely, 100%, of course. But hey, we live in a post-modern age, don't we? -_-
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#781

Post by mjf314 » April 16th, 2017, 12:09 am

Gershwin on Apr 15 2017, 01:23:11 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Apr 15 2017, 01:36:50 AM wrote:
Gershwin on Apr 14 2017, 03:32:00 PM wrote:I happened to be looking at the top 250 again, after months or maybe even years. Looks like half of my (26) unchecked movies are now Bollywood crap. Any chance they will disappear?
How do you know that they're crap? They might be masterpieces for all you know.
I'm relying on critics, friends and fellow iCM members whose tastes I trust. Some of them saw a bunch of these films, and when they say they're crap, I'm almost sure they are. But not completely, 100%, of course. But hey, we live in a post-modern age, don't we? -_-
Shouldn't you at least watch the ones that do have good reviews?

Here are some scores from Rotten Tomatoes:
Like Stars on Earth (89%, 9 reviews)
Dangal (83%, 6 reviews)
3 Idiots (100%, 10 reviews)
Rang De Basanti (83%, 6 reviews)
Gangs of Wasseypur (95%, 22 reviews)
Drishyam (100%, 5 reviews)

What did you think of Lagaan? I noticed that you've already seen that one.

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#782

Post by OldAle1 » April 16th, 2017, 12:50 am

Gershwin on Apr 15 2017, 01:23:11 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Apr 15 2017, 01:36:50 AM wrote:
Gershwin on Apr 14 2017, 03:32:00 PM wrote:I happened to be looking at the top 250 again, after months or maybe even years. Looks like half of my (26) unchecked movies are now Bollywood crap. Any chance they will disappear?
How do you know that they're crap? They might be masterpieces for all you know.
I'm relying on critics, friends and fellow iCM members whose tastes I trust. Some of them saw a bunch of these films, and when they say they're crap, I'm almost sure they are. But not completely, 100%, of course. But hey, we live in a post-modern age, don't we? -_-
That sounds fair - up to a point. Sometimes you have to trust yourself. How many Bollywood films have you seen? I haven't seen many myself, only a dozen or so, but while only one of them is anywhere near great (Gangs of Wasseypur), I honestly don't think the average quality of them is any worse than the average quality of the more recent (let's say 1990-) American films on the list. And frankly I'll take a few 3-hour musical-action-romance-comedy-melodramas invading the list any day if they knock a few superhero and juvenile action products off of it; at least it provides *slightly* more variety. It's not as if the list has anything much to do with critical reputation anyway - when it does it seems to be purely by accident.
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#783

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » April 16th, 2017, 1:00 am

I've seen three of thoselisted by mjf314 (Like Stars on Earth, 3 Idiots and Rang De Basanti) and while they aren't the worst thing ever they are interminable and exceedingly hamfisted. They are trying to do something beyond just be silly Bollywood musical melodramas, but they don't do it well and they insist on ramming it all into the Bollywood musical melodrama package. I imagine for the core audience who rates these films highly they see this as the best of both worlds, but they are not for me.

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#784

Post by Onderhond » April 20th, 2018, 7:26 pm

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls074942924/

Not sure if you guys noticed, but IMDb now has a refine option for lists. Now there's something handy.

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#785

Post by Onderhond » April 20th, 2018, 7:27 pm

Tasselfoot on Apr 14 2017, 07:39:19 PM wrote:Quantity does not equal quality.
It works for America ...

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#786

Post by Leopardi » July 7th, 2019, 3:39 am

Out of curiosity, has there ever been an attempt to put together an IMDb-style decade list for the 1900s? I imagine one limitation to doing so would be the scarcity of features from this decade, so one thing that probably would have to be done is to relax the runtime requirement (or at least lower it a fair bit). A vote/check threshold (can't remember which it is) would have to be decided upon, something lower than the one used for the 1910s, I would think. But beyond this, is it easy enough to generate such a list? I'm not thinking in terms of adding it as an official list, of course, just wondering what such a list would look like.

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#787

Post by mjf314 » July 7th, 2019, 5:14 am

Leopardi wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 3:39 am
Out of curiosity, has there ever been an attempt to put together an IMDb-style decade list for the 1900s? I imagine one limitation to doing so would be the scarcity of features from this decade, so one thing that probably would have to be done is to relax the runtime requirement (or at least lower it a fair bit). A vote/check threshold (can't remember which it is) would have to be decided upon, something lower than the one used for the 1910s, I would think. But beyond this, is it easy enough to generate such a list? I'm not thinking in terms of adding it as an official list, of course, just wondering what such a list would look like.
Yes, you can do an advanced search on IMDb, set the search parameters, and sort by rating.

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/

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#788

Post by Leopardi » July 7th, 2019, 11:28 am

mjf314 wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 5:14 am
Leopardi wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 3:39 am
Out of curiosity, has there ever been an attempt to put together an IMDb-style decade list for the 1900s? I imagine one limitation to doing so would be the scarcity of features from this decade, so one thing that probably would have to be done is to relax the runtime requirement (or at least lower it a fair bit). A vote/check threshold (can't remember which it is) would have to be decided upon, something lower than the one used for the 1910s, I would think. But beyond this, is it easy enough to generate such a list? I'm not thinking in terms of adding it as an official list, of course, just wondering what such a list would look like.
Yes, you can do an advanced search on IMDb, set the search parameters, and sort by rating.

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/
Oh, is it really that simple? I thought there would be an extra filter of some sort to handle any issues with vote stuffing. Sorry, didn't realize that. Thanks!

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#789

Post by joachimt » July 7th, 2019, 5:52 pm

Leopardi wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 11:28 am
mjf314 wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 5:14 am
Leopardi wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 3:39 am
Out of curiosity, has there ever been an attempt to put together an IMDb-style decade list for the 1900s? I imagine one limitation to doing so would be the scarcity of features from this decade, so one thing that probably would have to be done is to relax the runtime requirement (or at least lower it a fair bit). A vote/check threshold (can't remember which it is) would have to be decided upon, something lower than the one used for the 1910s, I would think. But beyond this, is it easy enough to generate such a list? I'm not thinking in terms of adding it as an official list, of course, just wondering what such a list would look like.
Yes, you can do an advanced search on IMDb, set the search parameters, and sort by rating.

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/
Oh, is it really that simple? I thought there would be an extra filter of some sort to handle any issues with vote stuffing. Sorry, didn't realize that. Thanks!
Actually there is a filter. Movies with less than 400 checks are filtered out. The source-url of the decade lists is an advanced search on this list:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls058869139/
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#790

Post by joachimt » July 7th, 2019, 5:53 pm

For the 1910s it's 100 checks, btw:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls046461517/
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#791

Post by joachimt » July 7th, 2019, 5:54 pm

And in other decades it's 1500:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls058832880/

Didn't check them all......
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#792

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » July 7th, 2019, 6:31 pm

1910s is 100 check, 1920s-1960s is 400 checks, 1970s-2010s is 1500 checks. Pre1910s is all shorts which means a check filter would probably not work well, and also the ratings on those isn't really stuffed, but is kind of a meaningless mess for other reasons.
Here are the films with 100 imdb votes: https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?rele ... &count=100
Tossing a *** in a Blanket is obviously vote stuffed, but also checked by a bunch of people since it was on the imdb shorts list for a short time.

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#793

Post by Teproc » July 7th, 2019, 6:33 pm

I'm sure I don't want to know why #5 is so highly ranked.

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#794

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » July 7th, 2019, 6:37 pm

Teproc wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 6:33 pm
I'm sure I don't want to know why #5 is so highly ranked.
Racist trolls. The movie itself is mundane.

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#795

Post by chrispeddler » July 15th, 2019, 10:37 am

Rotten Tomatoes List is quite good. The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (my fave) is their #1 on the list.

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#796

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 13th, 2019, 12:07 am

Either imdb is cleaning something up, or votes expire after x years if an account hasn't been used, because there are a lot of changes in the 1910s list over the last couple of weeks, and they are not due to new votes. (a bunch of vote stuffed 1920s films have also been affected but those don't affect our lists since they don't reach the check threshold). The other lists seem largely unaffected, and the changes continue, so it's not a formula change on imdb.

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#797

Post by Simba63 » August 15th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Something is definitely going on. I use the site 250.took.nl to watch the status of the IMDb Top 250 by comparing current to yesterday. Sadly, the number of Indian films has doubled and older films are falling by 5+ slots each day. Some great films have already dropped out. So, the list in my opinion is even more worthless than it has been at any time. Who knows...

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#798

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » August 15th, 2019, 4:57 pm

I exported the list after posting that and exported again today and several films have had their rating change without a change in the number of votes. Which is technically possible, but incredibly unlikely to happen to multiple films in a small list like that.

As for the Top 250, I noticed those Indian films, but since the changes are small and those films get so many votes it's much harder to discern. Plus the Top 250 gets it's own formula for filtering votes and it's not the first time changes like that happen. Something to keep an eye on, though.

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#799

Post by albajos » August 15th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Why should it matter though. India is the biggest movie industry in the world, it makes sense that should show up in a global list

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#800

Post by Coryn » August 15th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Because they’re lame ! (C) Creed Bratton
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