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The quest to rescue the IMDb lists

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The quest to rescue the IMDb lists

#721

Post by MMDan » September 22nd, 2016, 8:08 pm

PeacefulAnarchy on Sep 22 2016, 12:48:00 PM wrote:Nope :( I've been updating the imdb source filters, so if you click the source link on the lists you can see the updated version on imdb, at least.
Thanks for keeping up the work of updating though PA! :D

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#722

Post by Cippenham » September 22nd, 2016, 10:19 pm

So someone could create temporary lists as these are not updated anymore and no guarantee they will be. A possible solution but not ideal. But yes they would be unofficial.
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#723

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » September 22nd, 2016, 11:19 pm

They will be updated eventually, yes. It's not intentional that they aren't updated, it's due to imdb changing the display code and Marijn needing to adjust how the site scrapes the search results.

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#724

Post by MMDan » September 29th, 2016, 7:49 pm

It looks like top 250 was updated. oh joy...

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#725

Post by Nathan Treadway » September 30th, 2016, 7:17 am

MMDan on Sep 29 2016, 01:49:06 PM wrote:It looks like top 250 was updated. oh joy...
One Indian film in position 250 that's already off the source list. Hardly a distraction. It'll probably be one that pops in and out, so, I'll give it a go, for what it's worth. (I'm trying to maintain a platinum in that list.)
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#726

Post by brokenface » September 30th, 2016, 8:31 am

Kahaani is not bad, it's very much Hollywood rather than Bollywood style. Not worthy of top 250 but not a chore to watch

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#727

Post by xianjiro » September 30th, 2016, 8:55 am

just put it on hold - it will probably disappear from the Top 250 before I get to watch it but at least I'll have another check on Top Rated Indian Movies - still got a ways to go for tin, let alone bronze - so when are we making this one official? :o :P

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#728

Post by Fergenaprido » September 30th, 2016, 4:52 pm

Kahaani's been popping in and out of the bottom of the list for the last year or so: http://250.took.nl/title/1821480
It'll probably continue to do so for a while longer.

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#729

Post by Cippenham » September 30th, 2016, 6:23 pm

treadwaynathan on Sep 30 2016, 01:17:29 AM wrote:
MMDan on Sep 29 2016, 01:49:06 PM wrote:It looks like top 250 was updated. oh joy...
One Indian film in position 250 that's already off the source list. Hardly a distraction. It'll probably be one that pops in and out, so, I'll give it a go, for what it's worth. (I'm trying to maintain a platinum in that list.)
No, give up like I did a while ago.. :D
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#730

Post by AdamH » February 28th, 2017, 7:11 pm

I've started to my unchecked films that are in the most official list on iCM. I wish the IMDb lists were removed as it totally distorts the number of lists. A film can be in a few made-up genre lists. It would be good if you could filter out lists when you're on the most unchecked page or, better, if the lists were deleted entirely other than the Top 250.

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#731

Post by Gorro » February 28th, 2017, 10:43 pm

AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 12:11:11 PM wrote:I've started to my unchecked films that are in the most official list on iCM. I wish the IMDb lists were removed as it totally distorts the number of lists. A film can be in a few made-up genre lists. It would be good if you could filter out lists when you're on the most unchecked page or, better, if the lists were deleted entirely other than the Top 250.
Deleting would be a terrible decision. These list are more popular than many of the other lists on the site.

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#732

Post by AdamH » February 28th, 2017, 11:03 pm

Gorro on Feb 28 2017, 03:43:58 PM wrote:
AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 12:11:11 PM wrote:I've started to my unchecked films that are in the most official list on iCM. I wish the IMDb lists were removed as it totally distorts the number of lists. A film can be in a few made-up genre lists. It would be good if you could filter out lists when you're on the most unchecked page or, better, if the lists were deleted entirely other than the Top 250.
Deleting would be a terrible decision. These list are more popular than many of the other lists on the site.
Maybe but the lists don't even exist anymore. They are just manual search results of decades/genres. They aren't official lists at all.

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#733

Post by max-scl » February 28th, 2017, 11:40 pm

Yes, they suck. The "follow the source" rule strangely does not apply for these lists.

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#734

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2017, 12:31 am

max-scl on Feb 28 2017, 04:40:44 PM wrote:Yes, they suck. The "follow the source" rule strangely does not apply for these lists.
Indeed, I don't even understand why this is up for debate - some people are forgetting that there is no source... so these lists should have been removed long time ago when IMDb removed theirs.

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#735

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 12:53 am

There is a source, the source is imdb ratings. The source is just more flawed than before because we don't get imdb's weighting of the rating.

The lists are fine as far as reflecting imdb ratings of movies. Whether you find value in imdb highest rated lists is another matter, of course.

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#736

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2017, 1:10 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Feb 28 2017, 05:53:00 PM wrote:There is a source, the source is imdb ratings. The source is just more flawed than before because we don't get imdb's weighting of the rating.

The lists are fine as far as reflecting imdb ratings of movies. Whether you find value in imdb highest rated lists is another matter, of course.
Well, they did remove the lists, right? The idea with the ratings thing came later so this is clearly not the same "source" that was used earlier. Anyways, I really don't care about those lists, I just believe that if iCM wants to follow the source they should not be there, but this can be an endless debate. If people like them, fine - let them stay there.

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#737

Post by monty » March 1st, 2017, 1:13 am

bal3x on Feb 28 2017, 05:31:29 PM wrote:
max-scl on Feb 28 2017, 04:40:44 PM wrote:Yes, they suck. The "follow the source" rule strangely does not apply for these lists.
Indeed, I don't even understand why this is up for debate - some people are forgetting that there is no source... so these lists should have been removed long time ago when IMDb removed theirs.
Indeed.

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#738

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 1:15 am

They aren't the same lists as before, but the source itself (imdb ratings) is still there.

There is an argument for removing them, but "follow the source" isn't really it. I think they are fine and clearly popular and I don't think Marijn wants to remove them, but I do understand people thinking they're clutter that isn't useful.

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#739

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2017, 1:21 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Feb 28 2017, 06:15:15 PM wrote:They aren't the same lists as before, but the source itself (imdb ratings) is still there.

There is an argument for removing them, but "follow the source" isn't really it. I think they are fine and clearly popular and I don't think Marijn wants to remove them, but I do understand people thinking they're clutter that isn't useful.
Fair enough, but this is Marijn's call, if he decided to keep them, I have no problem continuing to ignore them :)

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#740

Post by AdamH » March 1st, 2017, 1:23 am

If the IMDb lists had never existed on IMDb.com then would people be in favour of adding manual search results as official lists? Genuinely interested.

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#741

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 1:24 am

They're not bad lists, really. Even the 1910s is less terrible than it used to be. There's some Bollywood on some of the lists, but it matches the Bollywood that is now in the Top 250 so whatever. I'd honestly rather finish the decade and genre (except sports) lists than the Top 250 at this point.

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#742

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 1:27 am

AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 06:23:32 PM wrote:If the IMDb lists had never existed on IMDb.com then would people be in favour of adding manual search results as official lists? Genuinely interested.
Probably, given that people have at various times proposed making such lists from mubi or RYM ratings. Maybe not mini-series or independent which I don't think would be something many people would consider if they hadn't already been on imdb, but the main genre and decades, yeah there'd be support for those.

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#743

Post by Onderhond » March 1st, 2017, 1:45 am

Interestingly enough I thought this thread was going to be about saner genre indications, not about people's aversion to Bollywood cinema.

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#744

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 1:49 am

Did you reread the thread from the beginning? Cause at this point the thread is just about hating imdb ratings based lists vs being ok with all these popular movies having a ton of lists to their name.

Also saner genre definitions is never going to happen because that part is up to imdb. But there has definitely been discussion about that around these parts. Probably even in this thread.
Last edited by PeacefulAnarchy on March 1st, 2017, 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#745

Post by Onderhond » March 1st, 2017, 1:54 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Feb 28 2017, 06:49:54 PM wrote:Also saner genre definitions is never going to happen because that part is up to imdb. But there has definitely been discussion about that around these parts. Probably even in this thread.
Yeah, I figured as much.

Might read through some of the older pages, it's interesting to see how far people are willing to go to maul lists to accommodate their own taste :)

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#746

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 2:04 am

Even though dislike for Bollywood, Turkish comedies and maybe Russian comedies (And their inflated imdb ratings) is definitely an undercurrent in the whole discussion and process of this thread, it should be noted that the primary concern wasn't Like Stars on Earth or Ivan Vasilievich so much as fake vote spam like this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6290024/ or http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5813916/ which may or may not be good movies, but are not actually films with fair ratings and do not match any kind of legitimate populism of imdb votes.

The lists have been going the way they are now for over 2 and a half years, though, and the solution we settled upon has been pretty robust and has minimal bias for taste.

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#747

Post by Chilton » March 1st, 2017, 8:29 am

Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?

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#748

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 1st, 2017, 9:00 am

Chilton on Mar 1 2017, 01:29:12 AM wrote:Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?
Coding time plus the fact that favourites aren't used enough by the userbase to make viable lists for the lower popularity genres and decades. It is, I think, a backburner consideration so may happen sometime, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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#749

Post by monclivie » March 1st, 2017, 9:14 am

AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 12:11:11 PM wrote:I've started to my unchecked films that are in the most official list on iCM. I wish the IMDb lists were removed as it totally distorts the number of lists. A film can be in a few made-up genre lists. It would be good if you could filter out lists when you're on the most unchecked page or, better, if the lists were deleted entirely other than the Top 250.
Can't you just add all the other lists to your list watchlist and do the cross-reference search?

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#750

Post by joachimt » March 1st, 2017, 10:13 am

AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 06:23:32 PM wrote:If the IMDb lists had never existed on IMDb.com then would people be in favour of adding manual search results as official lists? Genuinely interested.
Funny question actually.
If the IMDb-lists had never existed, iCM would never have existed. The site started, because Erik wanted an easy way of keeping track of his process on the IMDb-lists.
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#751

Post by AdamH » March 1st, 2017, 2:52 pm

monclivie on Mar 1 2017, 02:14:21 AM wrote:
AdamH on Feb 28 2017, 12:11:11 PM wrote:I've started to my unchecked films that are in the most official list on iCM. I wish the IMDb lists were removed as it totally distorts the number of lists. A film can be in a few made-up genre lists. It would be good if you could filter out lists when you're on the most unchecked page or, better, if the lists were deleted entirely other than the Top 250.
Can't you just add all the other lists to your list watchlist and do the cross-reference search?
Thanks for the tip. I'm trying to do that now but I can't get it to work. I'm adding almost all of the lists other than IMDb to my watchlist. How do I then see a list of unchecked films sorted by number of lists (in my watchlist)? I just installed the Enhanced script.

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#752

Post by AdamH » March 1st, 2017, 3:32 pm

Got it working now. Is there any way to select the lists to be cross-referenced without manually selecting them all from the watchlist i.e. selecting them all at once? Just that I'm selecting 100+ lists when I do it. Great script btw. Thanks themagician.
Last edited by AdamH on March 1st, 2017, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#753

Post by WalterNeff » March 1st, 2017, 4:24 pm

Chilton on Mar 1 2017, 01:29:12 AM wrote:Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?
I once suggested taking all of the big (1000+) lists, and creating iCM decades lists from them to replace the IMDb lists, and then getting rid of the genre lists.

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#754

Post by ChrisReynolds » March 1st, 2017, 7:20 pm

PeacefulAnarchy on Mar 1 2017, 02:00:22 AM wrote:
Chilton on Mar 1 2017, 01:29:12 AM wrote:Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?
Coding time plus the fact that favourites aren't used enough by the userbase to make viable lists for the lower popularity genres and decades. It is, I think, a backburner consideration so may happen sometime, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
The manual IMDb searches combined with the iCM check limit always seemed like a temporary measure, but getting iCM 3.0 working should be a higher priority.

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#755

Post by Lammetje » March 2nd, 2017, 9:04 pm

WalterNeff on Mar 1 2017, 09:24:38 AM wrote:
Chilton on Mar 1 2017, 01:29:12 AM wrote:Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?
I once suggested taking all of the big (1000+) lists, and creating iCM decades lists from them to replace the IMDb lists, and then getting rid of the genre lists.
Film-noir is also a genre list... :whistling:
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#756

Post by max-scl » March 2nd, 2017, 10:15 pm

What about the 100 Essential Westerns list which is based on a IMDb forum poll? Why not replace with a book list or something better?

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#757

Post by WalterNeff » March 2nd, 2017, 10:28 pm

Lammetje on Mar 2 2017, 02:04:12 PM wrote:
WalterNeff on Mar 1 2017, 09:24:38 AM wrote:
Chilton on Mar 1 2017, 01:29:12 AM wrote:Why not replace those IMDB-lists with similar ICM-lists?
I once suggested taking all of the big (1000+) lists, and creating iCM decades lists from them to replace the IMDb lists, and then getting rid of the genre lists.
Film-noir is also a genre list... :whistling:
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#758

Post by joachimt » March 2nd, 2017, 10:32 pm

max-scl on Mar 2 2017, 03:15:24 PM wrote:What about the 100 Essential Westerns list which is based on a IMDb forum poll? Why not replace with a book list or something better?
I agree with this. We did the same with the old horror list. Any suggestions for a good replacement?
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#759

Post by Gorro » March 2nd, 2017, 10:46 pm

BFI Screen Guide is a good alternative. https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/100+ ... kasparius/

Those are already official for several other genres (Scifi, Musical, Docu, Animation)
Last edited by Gorro on March 2nd, 2017, 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#760

Post by dirty_score » March 2nd, 2017, 11:37 pm

Paste's 100 Best Western Movies

and if you please get rid of the spaghetti list as well. :shoot:

Also, i believe Kasparius would be honored: How The West Was Shot :cowboy:

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