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iCM "3.0"

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ChrisReynolds
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iCM "3.0"

#1241

Post by ChrisReynolds » June 8th, 2018, 2:08 pm

For me it looks like it's changed back again now. Regardless, the Official lists need to have priority over the Stats and the User Comments. When I compress the page they should be at the top, not the bottom. And there's a lot of unnecessary text and wasted space as well. The User Comments are the least interesting aspect of the page to me.

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New design vs current design. The current design packs almost twice as much information into the same space. Couldn't we have a happy medium like this:

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There's no need to say "MOVIES · AT" on each line as it's self explanatory and distracts from the rest of the information.

Edit - I just saw Fergenaprido said something very similar.
Last edited by ChrisReynolds on June 8th, 2018, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#1242

Post by joachimt » June 8th, 2018, 2:15 pm

Can you guys post this feedback here? Marijn will read it then.
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#1243

Post by Gershwin » June 8th, 2018, 3:46 pm

I get 404s on the links you posted, PA.
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#1244

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 8th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Gershwin on Jun 8 2018, 09:46:28 AM wrote:I get 404s on the links you posted, PA.
Marijn reverted back to the old beta to fix some bugs.

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#1245

Post by xianjiro » June 8th, 2018, 6:27 pm

joachimt on Jun 8 2018, 08:15:38 AM wrote:Can you guys post this feedback here? Marijn will read it then.
I would, but was made to feel my feedback wasn't appreciated over there, so ... :'(

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#1246

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 8th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Other than the more condensed lists suggestion the other feedback is stuff Marijn is aware of. Though of course sometimes having more people say it can help.

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#1247

Post by AdamH » June 8th, 2018, 6:40 pm

joachimt on Jun 8 2018, 08:15:38 AM wrote:Can you guys post this feedback here? Marijn will read it then.
He reads here as well.

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#1248

Post by Onderhond » June 8th, 2018, 6:45 pm

Only feedback I have is that he just needs to get it live and refine afterwards. These full-on, complete redesigns really are a thing of the past.

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#1249

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 8th, 2018, 6:46 pm

AdamH on Jun 8 2018, 12:40:19 PM wrote:
joachimt on Jun 8 2018, 08:15:38 AM wrote:Can you guys post this feedback here? Marijn will read it then.
He reads here as well.
Sure, but not as often and it helps his organization to have it there. I posted here mostly because I was curious for people's thoughts and if there was anything we hadn't already suggested. If someone wants to make sure Marijn reads feedback then it's best to post it where you know he won't miss it, but the kind of discussions we had here yesterday are fine here. Especially since there were still bugs to workout.

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#1250

Post by xianjiro » June 8th, 2018, 6:51 pm

That may be true from a developer's POV, but as a user, I find the ever-evolving nature of tools like Google's suite of apps frustratingly mutable. If one doesn't use a given app frequently, one is liable to feel like the app is completely different, with corresponding learning curve, six months later.

Given the nature of our community, people will really throw a fuss if v3 goes live and existing features are labeled 'to come'. Again, it might work for Google, but I'm not much of a fan there. I also opted out of Win10 figuring I'd prefer to move after the platform was better established.

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#1251

Post by Onderhond » June 8th, 2018, 7:01 pm

xianjiro on Jun 8 2018, 12:51:07 PM wrote:That may be true from a developer's POV, but as a user ...
It's actually from the user's point of view. As a developer it's terrible, because you're constantly redoing things you made only a couple of weeks earlier.

Also, we're talking a visual redesign here. Google apps and Windows 10 are mostly about functionality, it isn't about how much space there is between list items. Ideally you also don't just design at will and see what happens, but you looks for friction and try to take that away by measuring feedback.

We're talking about ICM here, the redesign is basically just a lick of paint over the old site. I realize movie fans are somewhat slow-moving people, but not getting over the learning curve of a visual redesign is something I've never heard before.

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#1252

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 8th, 2018, 7:10 pm

Well, a lot of the redesign was motivated by a corresponding backend redesign (which is why some things like tags are broken in the live version) so that's part of the reason for why it has taken so long, because it's not just a lick of paint over the old site. I don't know enough about what Marijn has done/is doing/is planning to do to say if get something functional and iterate is a better approach than the current one. I do suspect the community's aversion to change, and the reaction the last time things were changed, might have made him (and Erik before him) a bit more hesitant to just get it live and iterate than otherwise.

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#1253

Post by Onderhond » June 8th, 2018, 7:18 pm

Well, that's one reason why you iterate. These big redesigns always result in two weeks of outrage, after which 99% has finally gotten used to the redesign and realizes the old one really did look uglier. It generates a lot of pointless discussions that benefit very little, as it has more to do with aversion to big change rather than inherit quality of the redesign. Dragging out redesigns with alphas, betas and previews only makes it worse.

With constant but smaller iterations, the discussion are also smaller, better targeted and might actually yield some interesting insight. Although relying just on the hardcore feedback is also something you don't want to do. Vocal minorities can truly mess up your site if you're not careful.

And while I do not know the current technical setup of the site, I do hope that the 3.0 version has at least abstracted back and front-end so the dependency won't be of any importance in the future. Work on either back or front-end shouldn't affect the other side :)

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#1254

Post by mightysparks » June 8th, 2018, 11:36 pm

xianjiro on Jun 8 2018, 12:27:10 PM wrote:
joachimt on Jun 8 2018, 08:15:38 AM wrote:Can you guys post this feedback here? Marijn will read it then.
I would, but was made to feel my feedback wasn't appreciated over there, so ... :'(
It’s way too difficult For me to use that forum with all the scrolling. Dont have the time and it hurts my hands too much.
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#1255

Post by flaiky » June 8th, 2018, 11:54 pm

Onderhond on Jun 8 2018, 01:18:03 PM wrote:Well, that's one reason why you iterate. These big redesigns always result in two weeks of outrage, after which 99% has finally gotten used to the redesign and realizes the old one really did look uglier. It generates a lot of pointless discussions that benefit very little, as it has more to do with aversion to big change rather than inherit quality of the redesign. Dragging out redesigns with alphas, betas and previews only makes it worse.
Totally agree.
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#1256

Post by xianjiro » June 11th, 2018, 7:36 am

it's kind of amazing that we don't have a button to report comments on iCM the way we can here. There probably aren't a lot of situations where users want to call a mod's attention to comments - surprised we don't see more spam - but the comment from @mathiasa here made we wonder if we even had the ability to report comments and I don't see how a user would on iCM (given they aren't active over here).

sorry, not my most coherent post - I'm tired and thinking as I type

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#1257

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 11th, 2018, 7:45 am

Here or on the help forum or by using the contact form. So no, there's no particularly convenient way to report comments.

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#1258

Post by joachimt » June 11th, 2018, 10:54 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Jun 11 2018, 01:45:31 AM wrote:Here or on the help forum or by using the contact form. So no, there's no particularly convenient way to report comments.
Don't use the contact form. Don't bother Marijn with stuff the mods can do. There's a topic on the official forum:
https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/comm ... rrections/
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#1259

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 11th, 2018, 1:54 pm

joachimt on Jun 11 2018, 04:54:15 AM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Jun 11 2018, 01:45:31 AM wrote:Here or on the help forum or by using the contact form. So no, there's no particularly convenient way to report comments.
Don't use the contact form. Don't bother Marijn with stuff the mods can do. There's a topic on the official forum:
https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/comm ... rrections/
It wasn't a suggestion, it was an explanatuon of what someone unaware of the options would do. No one reading this forum would have that issue.
Last edited by PeacefulAnarchy on June 11th, 2018, 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#1260

Post by insomnia » June 28th, 2018, 10:12 am

Does 3.0 not show when you checked a movie?

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#1261

Post by Marijn » June 28th, 2018, 12:26 pm

Not yet, but it will. You'll also be able to change the check date.

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#1262

Post by joachimt » June 28th, 2018, 7:33 pm

Marijn on Jun 28 2018, 06:26:58 AM wrote:You'll also be able to change the check date.
Including dates before the start of iCM?
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#1263

Post by OldAle1 » June 28th, 2018, 7:36 pm

joachimt on Jun 28 2018, 01:33:53 PM wrote:
Marijn on Jun 28 2018, 06:26:58 AM wrote:You'll also be able to change the check date.
Including dates before the start of iCM?
Oh that would be cool; I was just looking through old calendars and now know the dates I first saw films like Stripes and The Empire Strikes Back in 1980-81.
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#1264

Post by Knaldskalle » June 28th, 2018, 8:31 pm

OldAle1 on Jun 28 2018, 01:36:10 PM wrote:
joachimt on Jun 28 2018, 01:33:53 PM wrote:
Marijn on Jun 28 2018, 06:26:58 AM wrote:You'll also be able to change the check date.
Including dates before the start of iCM?
Oh that would be cool; I was just looking through old calendars and now know the dates I first saw films like Stripes and The Empire Strikes Back in 1980-81.
I'm not sure whether to admire that kind of meticulous record keeping or find it slightly disturbing...

Maybe both?
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#1265

Post by OldAle1 » June 28th, 2018, 8:50 pm

Knaldskalle on Jun 28 2018, 02:31:12 PM wrote:
OldAle1 on Jun 28 2018, 01:36:10 PM wrote:
joachimt on Jun 28 2018, 01:33:53 PM wrote:Including dates before the start of iCM?
Oh that would be cool; I was just looking through old calendars and now know the dates I first saw films like Stripes and The Empire Strikes Back in 1980-81.
I'm not sure whether to admire that kind of meticulous record keeping or find it slightly disturbing...

Maybe both?
Oh believe me, it's not meticulous, and I've never been meticulous - about anything, really. It's just that I started getting calendars in 1978 (first Star Wars calendar, yay!), and my middle/high school years were uneventful enough that I wrote in movies that I saw - which were few and far between, I probably got too see no more than 3-4 movies per year in the cinema before I got my driver's license. And I didn't always list stuff anyway, e.g. I know I saw Excalibur around the same time but it's not listed on the 81 calendar anywhere.
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#1266

Post by Marijn » June 30th, 2018, 9:50 am

joachimt on Jun 28 2018, 01:33:53 PM wrote:
Marijn on Jun 28 2018, 06:26:58 AM wrote:You'll also be able to change the check date.
Including dates before the start of iCM?
Yes

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#1267

Post by Ebbywebby » January 15th, 2019, 5:46 am

Fresh changes in the beta layout...is there a thread where these are being discussed?

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#1268

Post by joachimt » January 15th, 2019, 5:49 am

Ebbywebby wrote:
January 15th, 2019, 5:46 am
Fresh changes in the beta layout...is there a thread where these are being discussed?
https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/iche ... -feedback/
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#1269

Post by nimimerkillinen » January 15th, 2019, 6:43 pm

no reply option to comments?

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#1270

Post by Marijn » April 30th, 2019, 10:43 pm



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#1272

Post by 3eyes » June 29th, 2019, 3:48 pm

Thanks, Marijn! I did enough webbing back before it got this complicated to appreciate what a slog it is, chasing all those bugs and such.
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#1273

Post by Ebbywebby » June 29th, 2019, 6:52 pm

"Fixed a bug where counts on the beta differ from counts on live"

Oh, I'm so pleased about this. I had about a 1,300 check difference between the two.

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#1274

Post by bal3x » June 30th, 2019, 12:27 pm

Marijn wrote:
June 29th, 2019, 3:37 pm
Updates:

https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/iche ... ack/53/253
Thanks for this, but I have a question - seeing as you're obviously struggling and don't have enough time wouldn't it be more logical to outsource some of the work to the community? Surely there are many competent folks on iCM who would be willing to help move things forward. Perhaps this is something that can be discussed with the mods when you meet.

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#1275

Post by Marijn » June 30th, 2019, 1:41 pm

I've been asking for help with designing, coding and maintaining the site in the past. As there have been a few responses, eventually there wasn't anyone with the knowhow or time to help. The moderators have been helping a lot in keeping the content up to date, so that does give me a little more time to work on coding.

Of course I'd like some help, but so far haven't been able to find any.

For people considering helping me, this is the current tech stack:

- Python3
- VueJS
- Sass
- MySQL
- Redis
- Memcached
- RabbitMQ
Last edited by Marijn on June 30th, 2019, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#1276

Post by bal3x » June 30th, 2019, 1:55 pm

Thanks, Marijn! I was not aware that there's little response... I was under the impression that some folks were willing to contribute... but I understand it's not an easy task. That said, I'm sure you can also appreciate that 5 years in "beta" stage is something that will cause people to ask questions... as I've seen here on some threads. This is not a criticism, I'm sure you're doing your best there, but running this relatively large project on your own is apparently too difficult so I'm really hoping some solution can be found to speed things up.

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#1277

Post by Marijn » June 30th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Unfortunately I can't see those threads you're referring to, but let me try to explain why we are in beta for 5 years.

You might remember the time we moved from 1.0 to 2.0. People are just averse to change and were letting us know. After that we decided we'd never do such a thing again, so we opened a beta as soon as work started on our new version. We wanted to be as transparent as possible. Work progressed slowly as not only our design is old, the code running it is too. Our old code is so bad, we had a lot of trouble building our new design over it. That's also one of the reasons Erik and Piet lost interest. The project was just too big and working on it wasn't fun anymore.

Then, 3.5 years ago Erik and Piet decided to leave. The year before that they'd already lost interest and were doing little to nothing on the new version. Piet built half a design for it (a movie detail page and toplist detail page), but most of it was incomplete. He told me he wanted to help finish the design, but I couldn't get him to actually work on it. So I told him it was better if he just stopped working on it completely. Saved me and him a lot of frustration.

So there I was, the beta had been open for 1.5 years already, but actually during that time there hasn't been much work done to it. And I also hated working on the old code, but I tried. The design Piet made didn't please a lot of people, so I listened and started working on redesigning stuff. About 6 months to a year into it (can't remember exactly), I made a choice. I decided I wanted to make working on iCM fun again, which is what a side project should be, fun. So I started from scratch. It may not have been the best decision, but at least I was having fun building it again. I started with just the current database and went on with that. I built a number of backend services which would make my life easier and started working on the website. All this time the beta has been opened to everyone, but it was still running on the old code. I opened next.icheckmovies.com for our moderators to actually use the new code and give me some feedback. The feedback was very positive, so I focused on getting the old beta functionality working in the new one. The old beta was actually used a lot and I couldn't just turn it off.

In the meantime I also made a few new features. Instawards for example. IMDb list and movie parsing have been replaced completely and I added TMDb info. New poster functionality and a lot more. Most of the stuff you won't even have noticed, but made my work a lot easier.

About 3 months ago I was finally ready to replace the old beta with the new code. Almost everything the old beta had was in, except the progress page and messages. The progress page has been added yesterday and messages will be added later.

Running this large project on my own isn't difficult. Managing my time to actually get work done is. My home life and fulltime job also require my attention and lately my job has been asking for a lot of time.

So the beta has been open for a long time, but that's because we chose to open it the moment we started working on the new version. That doesn't mean the new version isn't taking it's time, but I hope the above explanation helps you better understand why.

I might call it an alpha next time though ;)
Last edited by Marijn on June 30th, 2019, 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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#1278

Post by 3eyes » June 30th, 2019, 3:53 pm

Thanks so much for this, whether I understand it all or not. Yes, you definitely had to make working on it "fun" (enjoyably challenging) to continue at all. I get that all right. Sounds like you've turned an important corner now.
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#1279

Post by bal3x » June 30th, 2019, 6:31 pm

@Marijn - many thanks for clarifying! It does make a lot more sense now :) Wishing you the best of luck with the development and hope we can see the fully working iCM 3.0 quite soon! :)

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#1280

Post by xianjiro » June 30th, 2019, 8:50 pm

Yes, thanks for the information @Marijn. I've always been suspicious that the code's the thing though only now have I realized it's involved a huge amount of rewriting. I for one appreciate you're keeping the site up, running, and looking for improvements that can be implemented. Yes, change can be difficult and since so much of the world has adopted the attitude that this or that site has to be redesigned every year, so many of us jet get annoyed - especially when we'd learned the old version and it did what we needed to do. But clearly there is a strong need - to keep the site sustainable into the future - for the rewriting you're doing. Thanks for keeping iCM strong! :hug:
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