Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
NOTE: Board emails should be working again. Information on forum upgrade and style issues.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 22 released November 17th * EXCLUSIVE * We Are Mentioned in a Book!!! Interview with Mary Guillermin on Rapture, JG & More)
Polls: 1970s (Results), 1950 (Jun 24th), Japan (Jun 30th), Essential Cinema (Jul 11th)
Challenges: Italy, Queer Cinema, Film From Each Year
Film of the Week: Drive a Crooked Road, July nominations (Jun 25th)

ICM features and functionality suggestions

Post Reply
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

ICM features and functionality suggestions

#1

Post by Lilarcor »

I've had a few ideas about ICM that I might as well air out here and see what other people think. I think the site with all these lists being added is getting a bit hard to navigate. Can you imagine how it's like for a new user? So I've cooked up these ideas (might have already been thought of others on Trello already) :

- Right now there are 9 tabs on top when you go to "Progress" and they are named "imdb", "critics", "awards" etc. I wish there was a tenth one that could be named say "My watchlists" where you can put in lists that you want to work on, official or not. Then you can see the progress of all these lists you are working on like with the official lists. I'm aware of the current watchlist system but it's not as easy on the eyes and sort of hard to navigate since everything is just in one big row.

- a List Recommendation engine built into ICM. If you 'favorite' a bunch of noirs it might say that you are such and such compatible with this noir list compared to that one. There are obvious flaws with this, for example that there are about as many criterias behind making lists as there are lists. But it could work well for "best movies" type of lists from users of ICM or websites. Not very useful for the average user perhaps who's seen maybe 500 checks so this could be a paying member feature.

- ability to ignore lists. Not necessarily dislike, but ignore. Ignored lists should not give you notice on award updates nor should they be on the award shelf.

I also think the award shelf is ugly as heck and that something should be done with that but that's not related to this.
Last edited by Lilarcor on September 27th, 2013, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 25961
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#2

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

I don't know if this is really the thread for that, but yes I more or less agree with your suggestions, although I think the second one would be a huge pain to implement and I'm not sure the results would be worth the effort.
Last edited by PeacefulAnarchy on September 27th, 2013, 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi
Posts: 11744
Joined: May 29th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#3

Post by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi »

Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:21:19 PM wrote:
I also think the award shelf is ugly as heck and that something should be done with that but that's not related to this.
The award shelf/section is kind of a mess, and on my computer I can't easily tell what's platinum, what's gold, what's silver, and what's bronze. I know there are separate tabs to click and see just your silvers, etc., but why not rank them -- plats, then golds, then silvers, then bronzes -- in the main awards section?
Last edited by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi on September 27th, 2013, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#4

Post by Lilarcor »

PeacefulAnarchy on Sep 26 2013, 07:27:38 PM wrote:I don't know if this is really the thread for that, but yes I more or less agree with your suggestions, although I think the second one would be a huge pain to implement and I'm not sure the results would be worth the effort.
Yes considering they already struggle with server load, you've got a point there.

e: I wasn't sure it was worth an own thread and I don't recall seeing a thread for this stuff.
Last edited by Lilarcor on September 27th, 2013, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
themagician
Posts: 3889
Joined: June 18th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

#6

Post by themagician »

Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:21:19 PM wrote:- a List Recommendation engine built into ICM. If you 'favorite' a bunch of noirs it might say that you are such and such compatible with this noir list compared to that one. There are obvious flaws with this, for example that there are about as many criterias behind making lists as there are lists. But it could work well for "best movies" type of lists from users of ICM or websites. Not very useful for the average user perhaps who's seen maybe 500 checks so this could be a paying member feature.
I think the only right way to implement any kind of recommendation feature is to do it the anime-planet way: http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/flcl/recommendations

Completely user-based and naturally sorted by most recommendations. It works and the recommendations are actually worth seeing. It also takes no resources on the server side to calculate the recommendations, nor the time to find, implement, test and tweak some algorithms which can be spent on other things.
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7

Post by Lilarcor »

themagician on Sep 26 2013, 07:41:41 PM wrote:
Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:21:19 PM wrote:- a List Recommendation engine built into ICM. If you 'favorite' a bunch of noirs it might say that you are such and such compatible with this noir list compared to that one. There are obvious flaws with this, for example that there are about as many criterias behind making lists as there are lists. But it could work well for "best movies" type of lists from users of ICM or websites. Not very useful for the average user perhaps who's seen maybe 500 checks so this could be a paying member feature.
I think the only right way to implement any kind of recommendation feature is to do it the anime-planet way: http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/flcl/recommendations

Completely user-based and naturally sorted by most recommendations. It works and the recommendations are actually worth seeing. It also takes no resources on the server side to calculate the recommendations, nor the time to find, implement, test and tweak some algorithms which can be spent on other things.
How do you, in the case of ICM, avoid it from turning into this: http://www.icheckmovies.com/charts/lists/ ?
Last edited by Lilarcor on September 27th, 2013, 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
themagician
Posts: 3889
Joined: June 18th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

#8

Post by themagician »

Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:54:20 PM wrote:
themagician on Sep 26 2013, 07:41:41 PM wrote:
Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:21:19 PM wrote:- a List Recommendation engine built into ICM. If you 'favorite' a bunch of noirs it might say that you are such and such compatible with this noir list compared to that one. There are obvious flaws with this, for example that there are about as many criterias behind making lists as there are lists. But it could work well for "best movies" type of lists from users of ICM or websites. Not very useful for the average user perhaps who's seen maybe 500 checks so this could be a paying member feature.
I think the only right way to implement any kind of recommendation feature is to do it the anime-planet way: http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/flcl/recommendations

Completely user-based and naturally sorted by most recommendations. It works and the recommendations are actually worth seeing. It also takes no resources on the server side to calculate the recommendations, nor the time to find, implement, test and tweak some algorithms which can be spent on other things.
How do you, in the case of ICM, avoid it from turning into this: http://www.icheckmovies.com/charts/lists/ ?
What do you mean? Randomness? If so, when you make a recommendation you have to put at least a little thought and effort into it. When you make a recommendation you first have to add it as a recommendation if it's a first and all recommendations need a short explanation why you think they're similar. You can't just "upvote, upvote, downvote, downvote" and move on. Even if people make recommendations that are a stretch, in the long run the good recommendations will come out on top. If someone makes a Christopher Nolan recommendation on a Studio Ghibli list I doubt there's a lot of other people who would make that same recommendation with a reasonable explanation that would convince other people why they think they should watch Nolan's films if they like Ghibli films even if they could as a group make it the #1 recommendation. It's more likely that other animation lists are on top. Also recommendation algorithms usually fail miserably when there isn't enough data so this would work especially well on smaller and more obscure lists. I'd also like to see this implemented for movies.
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#9

Post by Lilarcor »

themagician on Sep 26 2013, 08:26:05 PM wrote:
Lilarcor on Sep 26 2013, 07:54:20 PM wrote:
themagician on Sep 26 2013, 07:41:41 PM wrote:I think the only right way to implement any kind of recommendation feature is to do it the anime-planet way: http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/flcl/recommendations

Completely user-based and naturally sorted by most recommendations. It works and the recommendations are actually worth seeing. It also takes no resources on the server side to calculate the recommendations, nor the time to find, implement, test and tweak some algorithms which can be spent on other things.
How do you, in the case of ICM, avoid it from turning into this: http://www.icheckmovies.com/charts/lists/ ?
What do you mean? Randomness? If so, when you make a recommendation you have to put at least a little thought and effort into it. When you make a recommendation you first have to add it as a recommendation if it's a first and all recommendations need a short explanation why you think they're similar. You can't just "upvote, upvote, downvote, downvote" and move on. Even if people make recommendations that are a stretch, in the long run the good recommendations will come out on top. If someone makes a Christopher Nolan recommendation on a Studio Ghibli list I doubt there's a lot of other people who would make that same recommendation with a reasonable explanation that would convince other people why they think they should watch Nolan's films if they like Ghibli films even if they could as a group make it the #1 recommendation. It's more likely that other animation lists are on top. Also recommendation algorithms usually fail miserably when there isn't enough data so this would work especially well on smaller and more obscure lists. I'd also like to see this implemented for movies.
Ah, that makes perfect sense. From glancing over that link it looked like a simple upvote feature but I guess I should have used my brain more before commenting.
User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 7266
Joined: May 17th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#10

Post by 3eyes »

I particularly like the idea of a tenth tab for "My watchlist." I've been wishing for some way of adding chosen unofficial lists to the progress thingy for a long time.

Also being able to ignore those pesky IMDb lists would be lovely!
:run: STILL the Gaffer!
User avatar
bal3x
Donator
Posts: 13075
Joined: May 26th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#11

Post by bal3x »

Good thread, I hope The Guys will be reading this, if so here are a few other threads that might be useful in terms of great ideas for any future updates:

viewtopic.php?t=218&1/
viewtopic.php?t=997&1/
viewtopic.php?t=120&1/

And I'd also love the functionality of ignoring lists!
Last edited by bal3x on September 27th, 2013, 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
CMT
Posts: 1386
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#12

Post by CMT »

On a movie page it would be good if you could see if your friends have favourited or disliked that movie as well as if they have checked it.
Last edited by CMT on September 27th, 2013, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bal3x
Donator
Posts: 13075
Joined: May 26th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#13

Post by bal3x »

CMT on Sep 27 2013, 04:42:15 AM wrote:On a movie page it would be good if you could see if your friends have favourited or disliked that movie as well as if they have checked it.
Yes, this would be very welcome, I had suggested this earlier on Trello:
https://trello.com/c/QzS2odCM/649-show- ... en-a-movie
I would urge people to register and vote for ideas on Trello, it's the main development platform.
CMT
Posts: 1386
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#14

Post by CMT »

bal3x on Sep 27 2013, 05:36:40 AM wrote:
CMT on Sep 27 2013, 04:42:15 AM wrote:On a movie page it would be good if you could see if your friends have favourited or disliked that movie as well as if they have checked it.
Yes, this would be very welcome, I had suggested this earlier on Trello:
https://trello.com/c/QzS2odCM/649-show- ... en-a-movie
I would urge people to register and vote for ideas on Trello, it's the main development platform.
:thumbsup: Thanks it looks like this would be a better way to get heard.
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#15

Post by Lilarcor »

bal3x on Sep 27 2013, 05:36:40 AM wrote:
CMT on Sep 27 2013, 04:42:15 AM wrote:On a movie page it would be good if you could see if your friends have favourited or disliked that movie as well as if they have checked it.
Yes, this would be very welcome, I had suggested this earlier on Trello:
https://trello.com/c/QzS2odCM/649-show- ... en-a-movie
I would urge people to register and vote for ideas on Trello, it's the main development platform.
Voted.

How do you post new ideas?
User avatar
bal3x
Donator
Posts: 13075
Joined: May 26th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#16

Post by bal3x »

Lilarcor on Sep 27 2013, 08:59:43 AM wrote:
bal3x on Sep 27 2013, 05:36:40 AM wrote:
CMT on Sep 27 2013, 04:42:15 AM wrote:On a movie page it would be good if you could see if your friends have favourited or disliked that movie as well as if they have checked it.
Yes, this would be very welcome, I had suggested this earlier on Trello:
https://trello.com/c/QzS2odCM/649-show- ... en-a-movie
I would urge people to register and vote for ideas on Trello, it's the main development platform.
Voted.

How do you post new ideas?
Ideas are posted and voted for here:
https://icheckmovies.uservoice.com/foru ... 24-general

Trello is the actual development board. You cannot post new ideas there, only The Guys can do it, but you can comment on the ideas/suggestions already accepted and being worked on.
Last edited by bal3x on September 27th, 2013, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#17

Post by Lilarcor »

Ok the first suggestion I posted has been suggested kind of before and already has a bunch of votes:
https://icheckmovies.uservoice.com/foru ... omizable-p
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#18

Post by Lilarcor »

User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3095
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#19

Post by Lilarcor »

User-based list recommendation feature
http://icheckmovies.uservoice.com/forum ... on-feature
CMT
Posts: 1386
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#20

Post by CMT »

I made this suggestion but don't think it's that important.
http://icheckmovies.uservoice.com/forum ... ster-or-do
ErikSchierboom
Posts: 315
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#21

Post by ErikSchierboom »

bal3x on Sep 27 2013, 04:26:54 AM wrote:Good thread, I hope The Guys will be reading this...
:nod:
User avatar
brokenface
Donator
Posts: 13871
Joined: December 29th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#22

Post by brokenface »

Lilarcor on Sep 27 2013, 09:17:56 AM wrote:Ok the first suggestion I posted has been suggested kind of before and already has a bunch of votes:
https://icheckmovies.uservoice.com/foru ... omizable-p
:thumbsup:
User avatar
1SO
Posts: 855
Joined: December 30th, 2011, 7:00 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

#23

Post by 1SO »

User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 3314
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#24

Post by Torgo »

I can't believe I'm the first to bring this up, so maybe I'm overlooking something?

Let us sort lists by their aka titles instead of original titles. I wanted to compare one of the Korean lists with one on the internet and the "alphabetical" view was basically useless as my other source went by the English/international titles. :/ Shouldn't be too complicated to implement - there's always only ONE given aka on ICM (not like on IMDb) and if there's none, well, the original title it is.
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 9619
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#25

Post by xianjiro »

Torgo wrote: June 7th, 2021, 11:38 pm Shouldn't be too complicated to implement - there's always only ONE given aka on ICM (not like on IMDb) and if there's none, well, the original title it is.
Well, how does iCM choose which aka title to accept?

I get where you are coming from since clearly it's hard to find things in the database, but one of the problems is that so many potential aka titles are ignored. We've talked elsewhere about German localized titles (and their removal from anything to do with the actual title/content of the film), we really have little choice but to either accept all aka titles or choose one. Can't remember when IMDb made the switch nor have I reviewed the preferred titling structure as presently described, but with a crowdsourced database with hundreds of millions of entries, I can guarantee plenty of imperfection and problems.

I'm not convinced this would be as easy to implement as it might sound, even if users were good about updating iCM information every time they came across incomplete or out-of-date data.
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 3314
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#26

Post by Torgo »

xianjiro wrote: June 8th, 2021, 12:54 am I'm not convinced this would be as easy to implement as it might sound, even if users were good about updating iCM information every time they came across incomplete or out-of-date data.
:think: I do have the impression you're overcomplicating this. I'm not asking for anything "new" to my understanding - the akas .. they're already there. The whole thing about which of the plenty, sometimes messed up IMDb titles to choose from for the ICM database - it's been done one way or the other.

That's the Korean list on ICM for example:
Spoiler
Image
It's quite complete so far, isn't it? I mean, the titles are just in front of me. They're just .. letters. Maybe sometimes the picked title will be wrong .. that's okay. Still something to work with.


(Please ignore the fact that I haven't seen Chan-Wook Park's Thirst to this day.)
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 9619
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#27

Post by xianjiro »

Well, ultimately, this is something only Marijn could decide but I don't believe it will actually solve anyone's problem with pulling things out of a subset of IMDb's title/aka database entries.

How do we know a given title is even included in the two that are pulled? Your example is useful since it clearly shows different methods of transliterating Korean into the Latin alphabet. I've seen this with Japanese as well and have also seen Japanese titles translated differently. I just watched 青春残酷物語 which is transliterated "Seishun zankoku monogatari" (no diacritical marks though I can't say if some transliteration systems would add them in this example or not) and then translated in our database as "Naked Youth" but IMDb lists "Cruel Story of Youth" as the preferred title thereby violating IMDb's own rule, "We use the original title of a movie/show in its original language as it appears on screen (on the title card) in the opening credits." They clearly do NOT use the the original title as shown on the title card since they are using a transliterated title, not the Kanji original. BTW, "Cruel Tales of Youth" and "A Story of the Cruelties of Youth" are also given as English language translations but I think "Cruel Youth Tales" would be a more direct translation. So, ultimately which is correct/best?

This is why I think anything we try will be a no win proposition. If I update that entry, I bet I can make "Naked Youth" go away even though I believe to at least as valid as "Cruel Story of Youth". Who would this help? And besides, if I type "Naked Youth" into the search box on iCM, the first result is "Seishun zankoku monogatari", so isn't already doing something of what you are asking for - delivering the correct title as it's currently listed in our database?

If I can't find something on the first go on iCM (and I'll only look at the first 20 or so results since the search tool seems to use some sort of very fuzzy logic in delivering results), it's just easier to search at IMDb since that database is much more likely to include more variations on the name than, I bet, Marijn has desire to capture and store. Armed with the tt number, I get what I need on iCM or I have to add a new title.

Now, if your proposal was to search against IMDb's database (and not our "local" subset) that might be more interesting and useful.
User avatar
monk-time
Posts: 1446
Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 6:00 am
Contact:

#28

Post by monk-time »

xianjiro wrote: June 8th, 2021, 5:45 am Well, ultimately, this is something only Marijn could decide but I don't believe it will actually solve anyone's problem with pulling things out of a subset of IMDb's title/aka database entries.
You two are talking about two rather orthogonal issues. ICM pulls an AKA title from IMDb somehow (let's call that a process). Torgo wants to be able to sort lists by them (the result of the process), you have issues with how ICM pulls them (the process). The relevance of the latter to the former is tangential at best unless you want to change or abolish the process, which is another can of worms altogether. Is your argument that the process is so effed up it makes sorting by akas pointless?

I dunno, to me the practicalness of what Torgo wants is self-evident. No matter how the AKAs are pulled, as long as they get pulled one should be able to sort by them. To rephrase George Carlin's bit about sliced bread:

"You got a list, you got akas, SORT THE FUCKING THING! And get on with your life".
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 3314
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#29

Post by Torgo »

:worship: Thank you, monk. I have the feeling xianjiro and I were talking past each other and didn't know how to solve it.

George Carlin KNEW IT!
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 9619
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#30

Post by xianjiro »

Yes, thanks and my apologies. For some reason sorting of lists didn't register at all and clearly I have something of an obsession with the whole issue of names.

You should make the suggestion on the official forum, Torgo!

Now I'm just trying to think how I could make use of this -- not sure I can come up with anything but I'm guessing for people who are less comfortable with other languages it might make it easier working with English names rather than something that is functionally equivalent to - hate to say it - nonsense - but that's only because they don't understand the 'code' of the other language.
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 5669
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#31

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo, are you wanting to sort the aka titles only, or are you hoping for the list to sort by aka titles and original titles (when the aka is blank) in a blended sorting list? Also, do you want it to ignore leading articles (A, An, The) or no?

I think the first might be easier for Marijn to do, but the second sounds like it might be complicated to implement.
🧚‍♂️🦫
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 3314
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#32

Post by Torgo »

Only the first :thumbsup:
I personally prefer ignoring articles but would suggest it stays in line with what ICM does usually (it ignores them, too!).
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 5669
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#33

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: June 12th, 2021, 1:24 pm Only the first :thumbsup:
I personally prefer ignoring articles but would suggest it stays in line with what ICM does usually (it ignores them, too!).
I've noticed it ignores the English ones, and some of the other language ones, but not consistently. Plus, if a word is an article in English but not in another language (or vice versa), it doesn't catch it properly.

i.e. For German titles, it ignores "Der", but not any of the others (Die, Das, Ein, Des, etc.), and for French titles, it ignores almost all articles (Le, La, Les, Un, Une) but doesn't ignore " L' ". Articles in other languages (Portuguese, Italia, Filipino, Arabic, etc.) aren't ignored for sorting purposes either, because I guess that needs to be hardcoded.
🧚‍♂️🦫
Post Reply