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joachimt
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#841

Post by joachimt »

And for all I know he's making abusive comments, but I can't read it.

If students in my school speak in a different language than Dutch, they are corrected as well. In a Dutch environment, you speak Dutch. In an English environment, you speak English. And don't tell me iCM isn't an English environment because Dutch people made it and the movies are in lots of different languages. The site is clearly English.

But we've had this discussion before. I don't want to have it again.
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AdamH
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#842

Post by AdamH »

Ok, sorry for offering my opinion. I don't remember personally having this discussion before.
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#843

Post by AdamH »

FWIW, you can comment in any language you want on Letterboxd.
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hurluberlu
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#844

Post by hurluberlu »

The site is in English so it is fairly obvious comments should be in English but some guidance on language when creating a comment would maybe avoid confusion and later disappointment.
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#845

Post by AdamH »

Why does Letterboxd allow non-English comments then?
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#846

Post by Onderhond »

joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 8:44 am Making 130 comments that most iCM'ers can't read is impolite. I fail to understand why anyone would post in his native language on an English site.
Letterboxd allows it. Personally I like it, even though I cannot understand these comments they create a more inclusive and international userbase.
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#847

Post by AdamH »

Onderhond wrote: October 25th, 2020, 10:54 am
joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 8:44 am Making 130 comments that most iCM'ers can't read is impolite. I fail to understand why anyone would post in his native language on an English site.
Letterboxd allows it. Personally I like it, even though I cannot understand these comments they create a more inclusive and international userbase.
+1 but apparently it's been discussed and decided already. :ph43r:
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Lilarcor
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#848

Post by Lilarcor »

Link to where the decision was made previously if you want to shut down discussion. It does not say anything about having to write in English when you go to the "Add new comment" page.

Film titles show up in their original language, I can see why people would feel it's ok to make comments in their native languages. The use of foreign languages on English webpages go way back and is a feature, not a bug.

It's not hard these days to use Google Translate to figure out what a comment is about. I've "read" reviews in Arabic on Letterboxd that I have found useful and contributing to film knowledge and culture.

It's impolite modding to just remove a bunch of comments like this, especially when it is retroactively enforced (3 years after the post was made!) without warning.
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#849

Post by Armoreska »

oddly they havent checked anything in 2 years! but came back to complain 0.5 year ago
joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 9:14 am If students in my school speak in a different language than Dutch, they are corrected as well. In a Dutch environment, you speak Dutch. In an English environment, you speak English.
Could barely disagree more, have fought authorities about similar stuff since school, and gonna fight you for that. :guns:
I am SO tired of nationalists telling me what language I should speak or type or care about.
What language I speak is NONE of anyone's business home, in public school, on the internet or on their "private property".
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and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
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#850

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Same, telling people they must speak English at school would not be considered appropriate in much of Canada and the US. Especially outside of the classroom (in the hallways or at lunch or on the playground, etc).
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#851

Post by Onderhond »

Armoreska wrote: October 25th, 2020, 6:43 pm What language I speak is NONE of anyone's business home, in public school, on the internet or on their "private property".
There I disagree. While I'd definitely allow different languages on the ICM site, I wouldn't appreciate it on this forum. Within a community, people should speak the most common/logical language. If not, it's pointless to be a part of that community. A broader site like ICM can host multiple smaller communities though, since it's not really about interaction.
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PeacefulAnarchy
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#852

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Yeah a forum is different. To go back to the school example. If two kids are speaking a separate language in a free classwork time then that's fine, if they're speaking a separate language in a group project with people who don't speak that language then that's not ok because the separate language acts as an exclusionary device.
A forum is a group conversation, so you talk to the group in the most inclusive form. The occasional non-English aside is ok though.
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#853

Post by Armoreska »

Obviously, we shouldn't switch to Swahili where nobody can understand it. Keeping it on topic and in English on the website as-it's-built is also fairly important.
I don't have much of a problem with people switching to Dutch here on forum if they're speaking more or less privately.
Last edited by Armoreska on October 25th, 2020, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#854

Post by AdamH »

I do think there's a distinction between the forum and iCM itself. The forum is specifically set up for people to post and reply to others and it not being in English would create communication issues. I see iCM as different because it's not set up for instant replies and it's not very active and often the comments are just reviews and can easily be translated too with Google translate.

I'm not against other languages here but it would be pretty difficult if discussions were going on in multiple languages as people would miss out. I think iCM is completely different from here and I see no issue in people commenting on iCM in another language.
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#855

Post by Armoreska »

So that's a flip of my position
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD,
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ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#856

Post by AdamH »

Is it? I 100% support comments in languages other than English on iCM. On here, I'm not sure how it would work in practical terms. Are you saying you are against non-English comments on iCM but support them on the forum? Why?
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#857

Post by Torgo »

Armoreska wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:14 pm Obviously, we shouldn't switch to Swahili where nobody can understand it. Keeping it on topic and in English on the website as-it's-built is also fairly important.
I don't have much of a problem with people switching to Dutch here if they're speaking more or less privately.
:think: .. well, do you agree then or do you not?

We know to have many Dutch-speaking users on ICM due to its origin. If joachim and Onderhond would start replying to each other during this very conversation in Dutch, or phrase half of their posts in English, half in Dutch, I sure would give up on sending all of that through Google Translate to make sense of what they're saying. I would just start to ignore them. And feel stupid after a while.

That's the opposite of successful communication to me.


We had major issues with that over there on last.fm in the 00s. Some subgenres of metal were famous to attract Russian fans, who started to spam the shoutboxes with Cyrillic messages, while everyone else stuck to English in order to communicate with each other. (And trust me, I have to make an effort.) Before Google Translate, it was even more of a pain in the ass.
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#858

Post by Teproc »

I'm not sure I agree with the difference you're making between the site and the forum there Adam. Comments are also meant to be communicating something, aren't they? And Google Translate is an extremely imperfect way to approach translation, it's the bluntest possible object.

I'm fine with there being a "only English" rule, but I think removing comments without warning or explanation is not a good look, especially since this rule is not visible anywhere that I know of.
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#859

Post by Torgo »

Teproc wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:45 pm I'm fine with there being a "only English" rule, but I think removing comments without warning or explanation is not a good look, especially since this rule is not visible anywhere that I know of.
100% this.

(I have to remember to just quote Teproc in future instead of formulating my own posts.)
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#860

Post by AdamH »

But the iCM comments aren't very interactive and are barely used. They are also often stand-alone comments. Forums, by definition, are about people replying to each other.

Anyway, whether or not we agree on the English-only policy, definitely agree that the biggest issue is someone losing 100+ comments without warning.
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#861

Post by AdamH »

But the iCM comments aren't very interactive and are barely used. They are also often stand-alone comments. Forums, by definition, are about people replying to each other.

Anyway, whether or not we agree on the English-only policy, definitely agree that the biggest issue is someone losing 100+ comments without warning.
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#862

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Teproc wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:45 pm I'm fine with there being a "only English" rule, but I think removing comments without warning or explanation is not a good look, especially since this rule is not visible anywhere that I know of.
The rule is in the terms of service no one reads, but it is there and has been since the site began. https://www.icheckmovies.com/about/terms+of+use/
It wasn't enforced for a long time but joachim has been doing so for a couple of years.
Teproc wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:45 pm I'm not sure I agree with the difference you're making between the site and the forum there Adam. Comments are also meant to be communicating something, aren't they? And Google Translate is an extremely imperfect way to approach translation, it's the bluntest possible object.
Communication is not always a two way street. Sometimes communication is sharing your opinion to whoever will listen, and sometimes it's a dialogue or even a discussion. A forum is meant to foster discussion, as such communication is expected to be understood by all participants so that they too may participate, respond and enlarge the discussion.

ICM comments are mostly a one way communication, like posting reviews on Letterboxd or imdb or criticker, etc. People can read them if interested, but they are about expressing yourself more than being about engendering a discussion.

It's all on a continuum, even if the fall on the same side of the divide for you they're different things.
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#863

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

joachimt wrote: January 17th, 2014, 9:46 am
Piet on "Theo en Thea en de ontmaskering van het tenenkaasimperium (1989)" on wrote:quote: Doe maar wat, het is jazz…
Terms of use on wrote:Contributions... must not be in any language other than English...
tehe
I did find this, though.

The comment is still there, BTW. Please don't delete it.
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#864

Post by Onderhond »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 25th, 2020, 8:15 pm Communication is not always a two way street. Sometimes communication is sharing your opinion to whoever will listen, and sometimes it's a dialogue or even a discussion. A forum is meant to foster discussion, as such communication is expected to be understood by all participants so that they too may participate, respond and enlarge the discussion.

ICM comments are mostly a one way communication, like posting reviews on Letterboxd or imdb or criticker, etc. People can read them if interested, but they are about expressing yourself more than being about engendering a discussion.
I'm 100% with this reasoning.
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#865

Post by Armoreska »

Torgo wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:44 pm
Armoreska wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:14 pm Obviously, we shouldn't switch to Swahili where nobody can understand it. Keeping it on topic and in English on the website as-it's-built is also fairly important.
I don't have much of a problem with people switching to Dutch here if they're speaking more or less privately.
:think: .. well, do you agree then or do you not?
Sort of. It's kinda insensitive but it's better than us going around downvoting non-Eng comments. Since the comments remain there, they couldve been put under spoiler maybe but that's probably not easily automatized.
Torgo wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:44 pm That's the opposite of successful communication to me.
They should create a separate topic then if they want to have a Dutch lounge. Unless they want to receive your complaints.
We had major issues with that over there on last.fm in the 00s. Some subgenres of metal were famous to attract Russian fans, who started to spam the shoutboxes with Cyrillic messages, while everyone else stuck to English in order to communicate with each other. (And trust me, I have to make an effort.) Before Google Translate, it was even more of a pain in the ass.
well chats are harder to moderate as banning people or reasoning is unlikely to be useful.
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD,
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ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#866

Post by xianjiro »

joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 9:14 am And for all I know he's making abusive comments, but I can't read it.

If students in my school speak in a different language than Dutch, they are corrected as well. In a Dutch environment, you speak Dutch. In an English environment, you speak English. And don't tell me iCM isn't an English environment because Dutch people made it and the movies are in lots of different languages. The site is clearly English.

But we've had this discussion before. I don't want to have it again.
I thought ICM had a mod who spoke Spanish as a first language. :whistling:

I'd also say it's only worth having again with Marijn: the ToS are clear. Post in English. I don't agree with that, but there it is.
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#867

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

xianjiro wrote: October 26th, 2020, 4:22 am
joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 9:14 am And for all I know he's making abusive comments, but I can't read it.

If students in my school speak in a different language than Dutch, they are corrected as well. In a Dutch environment, you speak Dutch. In an English environment, you speak English. And don't tell me iCM isn't an English environment because Dutch people made it and the movies are in lots of different languages. The site is clearly English.

But we've had this discussion before. I don't want to have it again.
I thought ICM had a mod who spoke Spanish as a first language. :whistling:
Two (maybe three actually).
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#868

Post by xianjiro »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 25th, 2020, 7:10 pm Yeah a forum is different. To go back to the school example. If two kids are speaking a separate language in a free classwork time then that's fine, if they're speaking a separate language in a group project with people who don't speak that language then that's not ok because the separate language acts as an exclusionary device.
A forum is a group conversation, so you talk to the group in the most inclusive form. The occasional non-English aside is ok though.
has anyone tried to start a separate language thread on here? I have seen that on other international forums, so it's not completely out of place and allows people who feel too limited with their English skills to engage. Granted, the forums that come to mind are software related, but I wouldn't object to such happening and wouldn't assume it was meant to be exclusionary (unlike your group work example which is). But, that said, no one likes to see their username mentioned in a thread they can't read. :lol:
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#869

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

There's a French thread that gets little use. I don't frequent that many forums, but the only other language things I've seen in primary English language forums are either a) specific language subforums that have mod(s) that speak the language or b) language specific threads where the other language is restricted to that thread.
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#870

Post by xianjiro »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 26th, 2020, 4:31 am There's a French thread that gets little use. I don't frequent that many forums, but the only other language things I've seen in primary English language forums are either a) specific language subforums that have mod(s) that speak the language or b) language specific threads where the other language is restricted to that thread.
that pretty much sums up my experience - I think having a mod that is at least second-language proficient is probably the key to keeping those successful.
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#871

Post by Armoreska »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 26th, 2020, 4:26 am
xianjiro wrote: October 26th, 2020, 4:22 am
joachimt wrote: October 25th, 2020, 9:14 am And for all I know he's making abusive comments, but I can't read it.

If students in my school speak in a different language than Dutch, they are corrected as well. In a Dutch environment, you speak Dutch. In an English environment, you speak English. And don't tell me iCM isn't an English environment because Dutch people made it and the movies are in lots of different languages. The site is clearly English.

But we've had this discussion before. I don't want to have it again.
I thought ICM had a mod who spoke Spanish as a first language. :whistling:
Two (maybe three actually).
What was the other?
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#872

Post by xianjiro »

I'm not linking to the actual comment because I don't want it to seem,m like I'm trying to embarrass the user or anything like that, but:
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Yup. That's the comment. I recognize the words as English, but the meaning completely escapes me.
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#873

Post by mightysparks »

It’s a meme.
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#874

Post by xianjiro »

So? It's still a comment posted on iCM. Or are you saying that member posted it because it's a meme floating around in cyber space somewhere?
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#875

Post by mightysparks »

Yea it’s an old internet meme
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#876

Post by xianjiro »

:shrug:
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#877

Post by joachimt »

xianjiro wrote: October 27th, 2020, 2:37 am:shrug:
You're not alone. I don't get it either. :shrug:

Too lazy to google it.
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#878

Post by mightysparks »

I don’t get it either lol just some stupid thing I remember seeing a lot.
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#879

Post by Onderhond »

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#880

Post by Torgo »

Onderhond wrote: October 27th, 2020, 1:18 pm There's a site for that people.
I wanted to drop the same link!

Yeah, while my general internet activities have often to do with memes, I don't see them fitting very much on the ICM site. The community seems way too mixed to have a chance of enjoying them, if even getting them. Other than that we're too task-orientated for all that.

Some good old in-jokes of our community are fine, of course.
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