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Official lists updates

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Fergenaprido
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#4401

Post by Fergenaprido »

GruesomeTwosome wrote: September 11th, 2021, 7:56 pm Golden Lion winner at Venice: L’evenement / Happening (Audrey Diwan) https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/levenement/
Added. Thanks.
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dirty_score
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#4402

Post by dirty_score »

Just a question: Have the mods ever considered using the abridged version of the Rip shorts instead of listing them separately in the Library of Congress's National Film Registry, like you did with Dog Star Man, for example?
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Torgo
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#4403

Post by Torgo »

Seems like they should, since the Library of Congress also lists the abridged version (although with a year of release "1896" - well ..).

[ninja edit]Announcement of additions from the LoC: "films made before 1900 ("Blacksmith Scene," "Rip Van Winkle")"
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9602/nfr.html

Wiki entry: "The films were so popular that the production company (which changed its name to the Biograph Company) edited the scenes into a single feature in 1903."
Must love the Rip Cinematic Universe.
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PeacefulAnarchy
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#4404

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

We haven't discussed it, no. Makes sense to me. Back when I joined ICM I thought they should be listed under that entry, but I've totally forgotten about those films. I'll wait to hear what others think before making a change.
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Fergenaprido
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#4405

Post by Fergenaprido »

I'm inclined to disagree. The 1903 imdb entry is just a compilation film of the 1896 individual shorts.
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Torgo
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#4406

Post by Torgo »

Which is exactly what the National Film Registry was adding to their list, not 8 clips on their own. Again, see on their website / in the notice for 1995.
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Fergenaprido
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#4407

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: September 14th, 2021, 8:57 pm Which is exactly what the National Film Registry was adding to their list, not 8 clips on their own. Again, see on their website / in the notice for 1995.
Not necessarily. They have other single entries that are for collections of films. The home videos one from a few years ago comes to mind (I forget the name of the grouping).

I know they also do make mistakes sometimes, but the fact that they list 1896 instead of 1903 also indicates to me that they mean the collection of shorts, not the re-edited compilation.
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Torgo
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#4408

Post by Torgo »

Well then how do you explain THIS, Mister Ferg?

https://www.loc.gov/programs/national-f ... nd-essays/
Rip Van Winkle (1896)
The scenes were available to exhibitors as individual films that could be shown together or separately in any order they chose. They proved so popular that the scenes were edited together as a single film released in 1903.
Clearly if they wanted to emphasize the meaning of the individual shorts on their own, they would have bothered to name ONE SINGLE TITLE of them. Instead, the compilation is brought up with its release date and the entry is named like it.

I mean the reasoning makes sense, doesn't it?
(I also like to declutter things where possible :rolleyes: Because we did that with Dog Star Man, as mentioned, when we could)
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Fergenaprido
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#4409

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: September 14th, 2021, 11:42 pm Well then how do you explain THIS, Mister Ferg?

https://www.loc.gov/programs/national-f ... nd-essays/
Rip Van Winkle (1896)
The scenes were available to exhibitors as individual films that could be shown together or separately in any order they chose. They proved so popular that the scenes were edited together as a single film released in 1903.
Clearly if they wanted to emphasize the meaning of the individual shorts on their own, they would have bothered to name ONE SINGLE TITLE of them. Instead, the compilation is brought up with its release date and the entry is named like it.

I mean the reasoning makes sense, doesn't it?
(I also like to declutter things where possible :rolleyes: Because we did that with Dog Star Man, as mentioned, when we could)
You really don't need to shout me down to be heard, Torgo. I will listen to you, regardless.

I wasn't a mod when Dog Star Man was switched out, but my understanding was the the switch was made not simply to declutter, but because it was a single film that was erroneously split into parts.

Here's the full text for RVW:
Rip Van Winkle (1896)
Renowned stage actor Joseph Jefferson made a career of portraying Washington Irving's mercurial title character beginning in the mid 1800s and by the 1890s was the most famous actor in America. Capitalizing on Jefferson's success, Edison protege William K.L. Dickson filmed the actor in eight scenes from the fantasy tale set in New York's Catskill Mountains. The scenes were available to exhibitors as individual films that could be shown together or separately in any order they chose. They proved so popular that the scenes were edited together as a single film released in 1903. The film's success helped Dickson's Biograph company, successor to his original American Mutoscope Company, the most popular studio in the country.
The fact that they were initially made and screened as individual films makes me think they should remain as separate items. The fact that they were later compiled into a single film doesn't sway me (and if that's what happened with Dog Star Man, my stance would be that the individual films should be listed instead of the compilation entry). An analogy for me would be replacing all lists that include The Godfather trilogy as a single entry with the TV entry that combines them all into one long film.

I searched through the LOC list and found a few other examples of multiple films being included in a single entry:
Spoiler
#774-779 wrote:Fuentes Family Home Movies Collection (1920s and 1930s)
Longtime Corpus Christi, Texas, residents Antonio Rodríguez Fuentes (1895-1988) and Josefina Barrera Fuentes (1898-1993) were very active in their local Mexican-American community. Their collection of home movies — mostly from the 1920s and shot on 9.5 mm amateur film format — are among the earliest visual records of the Mexican-American community in Texas and among the first recorded by Mexican-American filmmakers. As with the best home movies, the images provide a priceless snapshot of time and place, including parades, holidays, fashions and the rituals of daily life. The beautiful images also reflect the traditionally fluid nature of the U.S.-Mexico border. The collection is a joint project between the Texas Archive of the Moving Image and Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi.
#295-301 wrote:Why We Fight (1942-1945)
Why We Fight
Under the auspices of the Office of War Information's Bureau of Motion Pictures, Frank Capra directed a series of seven government training and propaganda films under the unifying title "Why We Fight." The films were narrated by Walter Huston, and most of the footage came from newsreels, studio libraries, government footage and from British and Russian sources. Capra and his crew had very few tools of the trade available to them: No actors, no dialog, no lighting, no sets. The one tool they did have was editing and the strength of "Why We Fight" lies in its editing. The seven titles in the series are "Prelude to War,""The Nazis Strike," "Divide and Conquer," "The Battle of Britain," "The Battle of Russia," "The Battle of China" and "War Comes to America."
#354-357, 359-361 wrote:Navajo Film Themselves [aka Through Navajo Eyes] (1966)
In a project that incorporated both anthropological and communications theory, university professors Sol Worth and John Adair taught a group of Navajo students in Pine Springs, Arizona to make documentary films. The researchers wanted to know if it was possible to teach filmmaking to members of a different culture, and how films made by Navajos might differ from films made by outsiders. The research team met with their students for eight hours a day, five days a week for two months. They gave their students basic instructions, while emphasizing that the students should make a film about whatever was important to them. At the end of the project, the students had completed seven films, some of which featured traditional artisans such as weavers, silversmiths and sand painters. Other students created more poetically abstract films depicting Navajo culture as a whole. The films originally shown in the local community, but have since gained a wider audience through outside screenings and DVD release.
#702-730 wrote:Solomon Sir Jones films (1924-28)
Solomon Sir Jones was a Baptist minister and businessman who also had an important career as an accomplished amateur filmmaker. Jones was born in Tennessee to former slaves and grew up in the South before moving to Oklahoma in 1889. As described on the website of Yale University's Beinecke Rare Book & Manuscript Library, the Solomon Sir Jones films in Yale's collection consist of 29 silent black-and-white films documenting African-American communities in Oklahoma from 1924 to 1928. They contain nearly 355 minutes of footage shot with then-new 16-mm cameras. The films document a rich tapestry of everyday life: funerals, sporting events, schools, parades, businesses, Masonic meetings, river baptisms, families at home, African-American oil barons and their wells, black colleges, Juneteenth celebrations and a transcontinental footrace. Jones also documented his travels. IndieWire termed these films "the most extensive film records we have of Southern and urban black life and culture at the time of rapid social and cultural change for African-Americans during the 1920's, the very beginning of the Great Migration, which transformed not only black people as a whole, but America itself." The Smithsonian also has nine reels of film, comprising approximately two hours of footage. The films have been preserved by Yale University Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library and the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture.
It's not an exhaustive list, but it demonstrates that the Rip Van Winkle films are not a unique anomaly. While I understand and appreciate the desire for "one film/item per entry", I'd prefer to stick to the source/original version of the film instead of modifying things to fit our preference of having everything neat and tidy.
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Torgo
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#4410

Post by Torgo »

Alright, then. May others cast their votes. :ICM:

+ + +

Something else. I observed that the ICM Most Favorited list didn't update this Monday, while the last "update" on Thursday didn't result in a single rank change - very improbable.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/iche ... favorited/
Looks bugged / stuck.
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Torgo
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#4411

Post by Torgo »

Yep .. ICM Most Favorite stuck.
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Teproc
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#4412

Post by Teproc »

Same with all of the IMDB lists and the ICM Most Checked list.
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PeacefulAnarchy
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#4413

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

OK, I've reported the issue.
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