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New Official List Discussion

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Re: New Official List Discussion

#3361

Post by Gershwin » July 10th, 2018, 1:55 pm

beavis wrote:
July 10th, 2018, 12:59 pm
this month Dutch magazine Filmkrant has a special on female directors (mostly on male vs female gaze and how we should move beyond this by now)
http://www.filmkrant.nl/files/2018/Film ... 20This.pdf
but again no poll on best female directed movies... :(
maybe it is difficult to both highlight the neglect of women in this field and celebrate the work that hás been made?

I could ask Filmkrant chief editor Dana Linssen for a personal list maybe...?
EDIT: wrote an email to the editorial-team to ask if they could make and publish a list
Nice! I wonder how they will react. A poll would be best, I think, but that might be a stretch.
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#3362

Post by Gershwin » July 10th, 2018, 6:48 pm

beavis wrote:
July 9th, 2018, 5:57 am
beavis wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 2:06 pm
PeacefulAnarchy on Jun 16 2018, 02:21:01 AM wrote:I wish there was a good directed by women list, but there isn't :( They all have terrifically flawed methodology that undermines what they're trying to achieve.
I have made one myself now ;)
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/fema ... is/beavis/

But I am on the lookout for good sources (and good lists too of course) hard to find, but here is a start
https://www.bitchmedia.org/post/female- ... e-by-women

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonwillmore ... e-you-seen

https://www.buzzfeed.com/eleanorbate/mo ... mn6lEMjMX2

https://www.glamour.com/gallery/essenti ... d-by-women

https://mubi.com/lists/mubi-poll-of-fav ... -july-2011

https://www.raindance.org/the-25-best-f ... directors/

hopefully more to come...
Found an interesting one! curated by a critic (from Ebert's team) and with a clear focus on US-indie productions but it does function as a broader introduction to very different types of female directors from past and present

https://indie-outlook.com/2018/01/24/18 ... directors/
Here's the complete list.
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#3363

Post by beavis » July 10th, 2018, 7:14 pm

You rock!

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#3364

Post by allisoncm » July 10th, 2018, 8:10 pm

Thanks, Gershwin. Thumbs up.

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#3365

Post by ChrisReynolds » July 30th, 2018, 3:34 pm

Are there any more updates on this? Are we due to have a second voting phase at some point?

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#3366

Post by Lakigigar » August 3rd, 2018, 7:51 pm

Why doesn't this forum organize a "best movies directed by women" list theirselves and use that as official until we get a decent alternative? The only disadvantage is that it might interfere too much with other lists, because the site's userbases might be biased/directed towards certain favourites, which can be voted in both the canon, the <400's (potentially) and possibly the female director's list, because a certain movie might have a fanbase here, while not elsewhere as much, or it could be harder to "tip" the userbase of this forum, because they might have seen those movies all already.

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#3367

Post by Gershwin » August 3rd, 2018, 8:00 pm

Mark Cousins seems to be making/have made a documentary/series about women directors. If that's true, we might use that as well.
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#3368

Post by flaiky » August 8th, 2018, 5:53 pm

I was wondering if there had been any updates on the next round of voting, and then realised it's been exactly a month since the first polls closed. It's been three or four months since the nominations.

Soooo....any updates? Mods?

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#3369

Post by funkybusiness » August 8th, 2018, 10:40 pm

Gershwin wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 8:00 pm
Mark Cousins seems to be making/have made a documentary/series about women directors. If that's true, we might use that as well.
Comes out next year. Tilda Swinton is narrating. Sixteen hours.

https://deadline.com/2018/07/tilda-swin ... 202437154/

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#3370

Post by zuma » August 8th, 2018, 11:33 pm

funkybusiness wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 10:40 pm
Gershwin wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 8:00 pm
Mark Cousins seems to be making/have made a documentary/series about women directors. If that's true, we might use that as well.
Comes out next year. Tilda Swinton is narrating. Sixteen hours.

https://deadline.com/2018/07/tilda-swin ... 202437154/
I think we should definitely hold off on picking a female directors list until this comes out.

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#3371

Post by Fergenaprido » August 9th, 2018, 11:02 am

zuma wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 11:33 pm
funkybusiness wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 10:40 pm
Gershwin wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 8:00 pm
Mark Cousins seems to be making/have made a documentary/series about women directors. If that's true, we might use that as well.
Comes out next year. Tilda Swinton is narrating. Sixteen hours.

https://deadline.com/2018/07/tilda-swin ... 202437154/
I think we should definitely hold off on picking a female directors list until this comes out.
I disagree. It's a 16-hour film about women filmmakers... not a list about films made by women. Yes, I'm aware of the Film Odyssey precedent, but it's not one that I would support. According to that article, it uses "almost a thousand film extracts from thirteen decades and five continents", meaning that it will be a list of 1000 films? (Also, which continent did they leave out? lol).

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#3372

Post by Onderhond » August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am

A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.

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#3373

Post by sol » August 9th, 2018, 12:15 pm

flaiky wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 5:53 pm
I was wondering if there had been any updates on the next round of voting, and then realised it's been exactly a month since the first polls closed. It's been three or four months since the nominations.

Soooo....any updates? Mods?
I had a dream about this the other day. I went to refresh my iCM page and found that I had a whole slate of new Bronze awards. In my dream, the mods had decided not to run the second round of polls and instead discussed which lists they liked best out of those that performed well in the first round of voting and made those Official. Wonder if this will come true...
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#3374

Post by GruesomeTwosome » August 9th, 2018, 1:11 pm

I think you need better dreams, sol... :whistling:
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#3375

Post by Lakigigar » August 9th, 2018, 1:48 pm

I'm already waiting for the updates after this decade is over, and the updates of new lists... I hope some countries' lists will get nice updates soon as well.

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#3376

Post by sol » August 9th, 2018, 2:38 pm

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:11 pm
I think you need better dreams, sol... :whistling:
I actually dream about this forum fairly often. :o Had the same thing when I was still using the IMDb message boards. I guess my online life is just often on my subconsciousness before I go to sleep at night. Or maybe I just spend too much time over here. Speaking of which, I was meaning to get back to you on the weekly thread about the new Jurassic Park. I'll see if I feel up to typing up something later, but something I did want to mention (to veer completely off-topic here) was that I liked how the kid in the film was much more thematically relevant to the story than in pretty much all the other entries that placed kids in peril for the sake for extra thrills. /End off-topic deflection.
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#3377

Post by maxwelldeux » August 9th, 2018, 4:54 pm

sol wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 2:38 pm
GruesomeTwosome wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:11 pm
I think you need better dreams, sol... :whistling:
I actually dream about this forum fairly often. :o Had the same thing when I was still using the IMDb message boards. I guess my online life is just often on my subconsciousness before I go to sleep at night. Or maybe I just spend too much time over here.
Oh good - glad I'm not the only one who dreams about the forum here...

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#3378

Post by AdamH » August 9th, 2018, 9:30 pm

flaiky wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 5:53 pm
I was wondering if there had been any updates on the next round of voting, and then realised it's been exactly a month since the first polls closed. It's been three or four months since the nominations.

Soooo....any updates? Mods?
No answer to this yet? Weird.

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#3379

Post by Gershwin » August 10th, 2018, 7:10 am

I think most list mods are on holidays. But this is lasting way too long indeed.
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#3380

Post by Harco » August 10th, 2018, 8:12 am


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#3381

Post by Fergenaprido » August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am

Onderhond wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.

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#3382

Post by Onderhond » August 10th, 2018, 12:56 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am
Onderhond wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.
I haven't read the book, but seeing how there are almost full director oeuvres in that list I'd be surprised if every title there was actually discussed. Must be a thick one then!

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#3383

Post by Tasselfoot » August 10th, 2018, 12:58 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am
Onderhond wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.
There are also 4 lost films still on the Fantasy List. So it still needs another cleaning, imo.

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#3384

Post by Gershwin » August 10th, 2018, 1:52 pm

Tasselfoot wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 12:58 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am
Onderhond wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.
There are also 4 lost films still on the Fantasy List. So it still needs another cleaning, imo.
Yeah, I think you're confusing two lists, Fergie. Nothing was cleaned up on the fantasy list. On the contrary, those lost films were only in the description and I added them right before the list was adopted because the mods felt all films should be included, lost films as well.
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#3385

Post by Lakigigar » August 10th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 12:56 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am
Onderhond wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
A bit like that Asian Cinema: A Field Guide list. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.
I haven't read the book, but seeing how there are almost full director oeuvres in that list I'd be surprised if every title there was actually discussed. Must be a thick one then!
Is there an alternative according to you?

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#3386

Post by Fergenaprido » August 10th, 2018, 7:24 pm

Gershwin wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 1:52 pm
Tasselfoot wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 12:58 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 10:22 am
I'm more forgiving for book lists like this, as from my understanding we only include films that they actually discuss, not everything mentioned or referenced (I remember the fantasy book list going through a clean up shortly after adoption). For the film, obviously we cannot know yet how the content will be presented, but showing a clip won't always be meaningful without discussion.
There are also 4 lost films still on the Fantasy List. So it still needs another cleaning, imo.
Yeah, I think you're confusing two lists, Fergie. Nothing was cleaned up on the fantasy list. On the contrary, those lost films were only in the description and I added them right before the list was adopted because the mods felt all films should be included, lost films as well.
Hmm, seems your right. It was the TimeOut's 1000 Films to Change Your Life (discussion here) two years ago, not the Fantasy list.

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#3387

Post by Knaldskalle » August 11th, 2018, 4:44 am

Some of us were kinda sorta busy with a little forum move before going on various vacations. But perhaps Peaceful did such a good job of it that nobody noticed...? :D

Peaceful and mjf314 are putting the finishing touches on the poll. We're talking end dates and how to submit ballots, accompanying text and so on. It'll happen, don't worry.
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#3388

Post by brokenface » August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am

Does anyone know of any good Miniseries lists (focusing on fiction rather than documentaries)? Can't really find much aside from the IMDB one which is flawed and about 50% docs.

I made myself a miniseries watchlist and it struck me how many highly acclaimed ones are on zero lists. Things like Roots, Angels in America, Mildred Pierce, Boys From the Blackstuff. These would no doubt be on numerous lists if released as feature films. Other than the IMDB list, the only place they seem to get much of a shot is Doubling the Canon which has a few

I know some don't like TV encroaching on ICM, but miniseries are closer to movies and fit with the checking ethos as they are self contained and finite so a list could work (as opposed to something like the IMDB top 250 TV which includes things like The Daily Show so wouldn't really be suitable)

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#3389

Post by 3eyes » August 11th, 2018, 1:13 pm

brokenface wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am
Does anyone know of any good Miniseries lists (focusing on fiction rather than documentaries)? Can't really find much aside from the IMDB one which is flawed and about 50% docs.

I made myself a miniseries watchlist and it struck me how many highly acclaimed ones are on zero lists. Things like Roots, Angels in America, Mildred Pierce, Boys From the Blackstuff. These would no doubt be on numerous lists if released as feature films. Other than the IMDB list, the only place they seem to get much of a shot is Doubling the Canon which has a few
I'd be interested in such a list. We could make it a collaborative effort - sound the call and see what folks come up with, as happened with my Children & War list.

One source of ideas might be the Long Films Challenge - it's been going for quite a while and could be mined. (I did make a "long films on official lists" list to go with it, but it's badly out of date.)
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#3390

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2018, 2:30 pm

You can start with going through this page to get some ideas for mini-series, though not everything there is a mini-series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primetime ... ted_Series

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#3391

Post by frbrown » August 11th, 2018, 3:52 pm

https://ew.com/gallery/20-classic-tv-miniseries/


To save everyone from clicking thru all 20 slides:

I, Claudius (1976)
Roots (1977)
Shogun (1980)
Brideshead Revisited (1981)
The Thorn Birds (1983)
V (1983)
The Singing Detective (1986)
Traffik (1989)
Lonesome Dove (1989)
Tales of the City (1993)
The Stand (1994)
Pride and Prejudice (1995)
From the Earth to the Moon (1998)
The Corner (2000)
Band of Brothers (2001)
Angels in America (2003)
Battlestar Galactica (2003)
Bleak House (2006)
Jekyll (2007)
John Adams (2008)

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#3392

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2018, 4:55 pm

frbrown wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 3:52 pm
https://ew.com/gallery/20-classic-tv-miniseries/


To save everyone from clicking thru all 20 slides:

I, Claudius (1976)
Roots (1977)
Shogun (1980)
Brideshead Revisited (1981)
The Thorn Birds (1983)
V (1983)
The Singing Detective (1986)
Traffik (1989)
Lonesome Dove (1989)
Tales of the City (1993)
The Stand (1994)
Pride and Prejudice (1995)
From the Earth to the Moon (1998)
The Corner (2000)
Band of Brothers (2001)
Angels in America (2003)
Battlestar Galactica (2003)
Bleak House (2006)
Jekyll (2007)
John Adams (2008)
Thanks frbrown. Looks like a greater starter list. Added to icm: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/ente ... genaprido/

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#3393

Post by mjf314 » August 12th, 2018, 1:29 am


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#3394

Post by sol » August 12th, 2018, 3:24 am

mjf314 wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 1:29 am
I posted the final poll: https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/fina ... ber-9/3010
Globe Best Picture nominees --- 35% --> added to final ballot
Every Film that has won an Oscar --- 33% --> added to final ballot

BAFTA Best British Film Award --- 39% --> left off final ballot

:shrug:

It would be one thing if all of my suggestions legitimately did not make the cut, but this really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :down: :down: :down:
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#3395

Post by mjf314 » August 12th, 2018, 3:41 am

sol wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 3:24 am
mjf314 wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 1:29 am
I posted the final poll: https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/fina ... ber-9/3010
Globe Best Picture nominees --- 35% --> added to final ballot
Every Film that has won an Oscar --- 33% --> added to final ballot

BAFTA Best British Film Award --- 39% --> left off final ballot

:shrug:

It would be one thing if all of my suggestions legitimately did not make the cut, but this really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :down: :down: :down:
It was 36%, not 39%. BAFTA just barely missed the cutoff. The cutoff was based on total number of votes, not percent.

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#3396

Post by sol » August 12th, 2018, 3:55 am

mjf314 wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 3:41 am
BAFTA just barely missed the cutoff. The cutoff was based on total number of votes, not percent.
Oh, I see. Maybe this information should be added to the opening paragraph in that post?

Off-hand, I think there are only two lists there that I would award a 4, but I'll take a closer look later.

One thing that I would appreciate is an extra column of "zero Official List films" in each list, but if that can't be added, I guess I can look it up manually.
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#3397

Post by mjf314 » August 12th, 2018, 4:15 am

Ok, I edited the post.

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#3398

Post by Gershwin » August 12th, 2018, 4:47 am

So the ballot is actually completely uncurated? I find this very strange, at least. :shrug:

Looks like voting is practically useless, except for downvoting some crappy lists.
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#3399

Post by Lilarcor » August 12th, 2018, 5:00 am

Two lists I would award a 4 to, and seven -1 votes.

This list of lists worries me, but I have faith that it will be okay in the end. No need to adopt a lot of lists every time. I hope no more than four new lists get adopted based on this.

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#3400

Post by sol » August 12th, 2018, 5:08 am

I don't know. I have only browsed through 25 of the lists so far, and already there are actually four that I would be prepared to give a 4 to and only four that I have down as a 0 or -1 so far. While there is certainly some stuff here that I don't think has any business being Official, the majority of the lists do interest me to varying degrees, and given how long and drawn out this whole process has been, I have my fingers crossed that it will lead to 8-10 adoptions.
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