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Westworld

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Westworld

#1

Post by outdoorcats » April 22nd, 2018, 1:37 am

Tomorrow night the almost two-year wait ends and I'm sure we'll have new mysteries and more theories to discuss and debate.

If you're kind of wandering in here out of curiosity then you best catch up on Season 1 of one of the greatest blockbuster mysteries ever before something big gets spoiled for you. But if you need extra convincing, think Memento-style head trip meets philosophical sci-fi meets the production values, amazing acting and music of Game of Thrones. The first season has only 10 episodes. Now turn back from this thread before you can say, "Doesn't look like anything to me."

On a similar note, if you've seen the Season 2 trailers (as I have) best discuss them under spoiler tags as some viewers prefer to go in blind.

Before the season starts, what are you most anticipating? What unanswered questions do you still have? And which are your favorite characters?

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#2

Post by mightysparks » April 22nd, 2018, 2:09 am

Haven’t seen trailers and know nothing about season 2, but I loved season 1. I watched it during the worst part of my depression and I related to it pretty deeply but it was also just a really great, well paced show. So yea looking forward to moar. Have no specific favorites or questions, just want more.
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#3

Post by outdoorcats » April 22nd, 2018, 4:50 am

Have you also seen Nolan's other show, Person of Interest? That's definitely in my top 5 TV series of all time. Definitely makes me more confident Joy + Nolan will only continue to make the show more interesting and come up with a great finale down the line. PoI had a fantastic series finale, rare for a network show...scratch that, just rare period.

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#4

Post by mightysparks » April 22nd, 2018, 4:56 am

outdoorcats on Apr 21 2018, 10:50:49 PM wrote:Have you also seen Nolan's other show, Person of Interest? That's definitely in my top 5 TV series of all time. Definitely makes me more confident Joy + Nolan will only continue to make the show more interesting and come up with a great finale down the line. PoI had a fantastic series finale, rare for a network show...scratch that, just rare period.
I watched the first episode (maybe the second?) when it first came out because I was into Michael Emerson, but I couldn't really get into it. After I graduate I plan to go TV and film binging so maybe I can chuck that on my watchlist to give another go.
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#5

Post by maxwelldeux » April 22nd, 2018, 6:28 am

I know next to nothing about the series, save for a season 2 promo I saw today before a documentary I watched (Andre the Giant). I'm actually planning on giving this one a go next month during the Western challenge.

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#6

Post by Cynical Cinephile » April 22nd, 2018, 8:20 am

Oh wow, I didn't even realize it was coming out so soon. I thought we were still months away. I was blown away by season 1. It didn't really thread new ground with its philosophical approach, but it did do it differently, and as a mystery thriller, it kept surprising me and leaving my jaw open. It's definitely one of the best single seasons I've ever seen. I'm not sure how it can be topped, season 1 would've worked great as its standalone mini series.

That being said, I'm keeping an open mind and looking forward to it.

Favorite character? Tough question, I guess Ed Harris' Man in Black, but that's probably because I really like Ed Harris as an actor.

Unanswered questions? I don't remember having any, I thought it was all very tightly packed.

Most anticipating? To see where Thandie Newton's character goes from here.
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#7

Post by outdoorcats » April 22nd, 2018, 4:55 pm

Some unanswered questions I had from season one, which may or may not be answered were -

-What year is it?
-Who were (and when were) the bodies in the service hallway under the church Dolores saw in Episode 9? Perhaps we're just supposed to assume they were more hosts from Arnold's purge, but what were so many hosts doing dressed in lab equipment before the park even opened?
-What is Delos' end game for smuggling data out of the park? (Super-soldiers? Using hosts for corporate or international espionage? Uploading consciousness and selling immortality to the highest bidder?)
-What was Maeve's original directive, had she left the park as planned?
-What does the outside world look like? Where is Westworld?
-How many worlds are there? Is Shogun World an operating park or just something in development?

Some of these might just be me obsessing over little things but others are definitely meant to be unanswered questions; for example, the whole Delos mystery they've been teasing us with since the first episode with the conversation between Theresa and Simon on the balcony.

My own favorite character is definitely Arnold, an amazingly brilliant and tragic character and a fantastic performance by you-know-who (where was his Emmy?).
Last edited by outdoorcats on April 22nd, 2018, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#8

Post by Cynical Cinephile » April 22nd, 2018, 10:53 pm

Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Arnold's big reveal was the most shocking moment of the season one for me. I was kind of expecting it somewhere in the back of my mind, but it still left me speechless, just the way it was delivered.
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#9

Post by monty » April 22nd, 2018, 11:02 pm

I'd pay to visit Shogun World, hehe.

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#10

Post by outdoorcats » April 23rd, 2018, 5:01 am

About that premiere...
Spoiler: click to toggleShow

Whoah, OK, so Delos is collecting the experiences and DNA of the guests? Why?

The premiere was awesome, deeply satisfying, and certainly gave us plenty of new mysteries to untangle. I see they are already playing with timelines again. Will they get us again with one of the storylines not happening when it appears? (My best guess, if this is the case, is that the Arnold and Dolores scene was really a Bernard and Dolores scene. I don't know how that would make sense, but it could be a case of what they are saying meaning something completely different in a new context)

Are all the hosts making free choices now? (albeit choices strongly influenced by their programmed personas) Or have just the guns been reconfigured along with the "line of code" that previously stopped them from inflicting real damage on guests? The only ones we know for a fact are making self-determined choices are Dolores (we've seen her inner voice) and Maeve (went for her daughter instead of escape to the mainland).

-Westworld is on an island off the coast of China?
-Dolores and Teddy are going to take over the world? (you see how they quietly set up seasons worth of material to get excited about right there)
-Dolores is killing other hosts? Cryptic reasons something to do with a valley?
-Bernard was the focus this episode. What does he know or not know? Anyone else get the feeling this "unstuck in time" editing device is setting us up to have the rug pulled out from under us again? But if so I still can't see how?


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#11

Post by mightysparks » April 25th, 2018, 5:59 am

I’ve convinced my bf to rewatch the first season with me. We’re up to episode 4 and he’s enjoying it so far. I still really love it, though had forgotten Jimmi Simpson’s character had a triggery name so I ended up crying myself to sleep last night urge but anyway. I think I may do my big essay next semester on Westworld and trauma instead of the horror thing because this still resonates deeply with my PTSD and whatnot.

Was worried I may dislike it on a third rewatch (not much stuff is still good), but what I’ve learnt at uni in between is showing up all the time so things are making even more sense and I’m like yea man.
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#12

Post by outdoorcats » May 8th, 2018, 12:22 am

mightysparks have you gotten to the first few episodes of the new season? I can't wait to talk about the third episode with someone, but I'm not sure if anyone else here is caught up yet?

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#13

Post by mightysparks » May 8th, 2018, 1:04 am

outdoorcats on May 7 2018, 06:22:44 PM wrote:mightysparks have you gotten to the first few episodes of the new season? I can't wait to talk about the third episode with someone, but I'm not sure if anyone else here is caught up yet?
Yea I watched the 3rd episode last night
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Finding it a bit slow and not quite as taut as the first season. I'm also liking the 'humans' more than the hosts now, like I don't buy Dolores' change at all.
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#14

Post by Lilarcor » May 8th, 2018, 1:34 am

I have also seen the third episode of the second season, but to be honest I would not be great for conversations about it because I am almost completely lost. I don't watch it alone so I can't hit the pause button every 5 minutes to let my silly theories sink in for me to be ready to watch what is happening all the time.
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
So did Bernard upload Abernathy.exe to himself? Is that why he is so messed up "later" (I think it's later)? Also Bernard is getting the scar on his head this episode, right?

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#15

Post by outdoorcats » May 8th, 2018, 4:28 am

I think that
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Bernard is still leaking fluid from the self-inflicted headshot from Season 1, Episode 9. Potentially it could be cooling fluid which is causing his equivalent of a CPU (the ball we saw extracted from the Ghost Nation Warrior's head in the premiere) to overheat.
@mightysparks That's how I felt about the premiere but the
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Dolores-Abernathy scene this episode made me like Dolores again. Seeing Teddy disobey orders is an interesting development as well which in turn makes him more likable. Since we know he's programmed to be Dolores' loyal puppy dog it seems he's breaking his programming too. Seeing the hosts break their programming, as well as question and turn on each other makes them more interesting/likeable to me. The wild card is of course Bernard.
Last edited by outdoorcats on May 8th, 2018, 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#16

Post by mightysparks » May 8th, 2018, 4:50 am

outdoorcats on May 7 2018, 10:28:47 PM wrote:I think that
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Bernard is still leaking fluid from the self-inflicted headshot from Season 1, Episode 9. Potentially it could be cooling fluid which is causing his equivalent of a CPU (the ball we saw extracted from the Ghost Nation Warrior's head in the premiere) to overheat.
@mightysparks That's how I felt about the premiere but the
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Dolores-Abernathy scene this episode made me like Dolores again. Seeing Teddy disobey orders is an interesting development as well which in turn makes him more likable. Since we know he's programmed to be Dolores' loyal puppy dog it seems he's breaking his programming too. Seeing the hosts break their programming, as well as question and turn on each other makes them more interesting/likeable to me. The wild card is of course Bernard.
I suppose but
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
might just be coz of what happened to me, but I view the whole series as being about trauma and waking up from trauma etc. the first season was that completely and now this season it’s like, particularly with Dolores, their new selves coming to terms with their denial. And having experienced it myself I just don’t have the same connection as I did with the first season. Maybe I’m looking for something that isn’t there but I can’t help but feel a disconnect whereas it was so powerful to me before.

I think it’s interesting how all the hosts are reacting differently. Especially with the contrast between Maeve and Dolores, and the changes in Teddy, but really the only character I’m still interested in is Bernard, who has always been my favourite. But I liked and cared about everyone before and now I just don’t care about the hosts really. The bullied becoming the bullies isn’t really that interesting to me and they just seem as slimy as the humans - maybe the point but they don’t feel complex and believable. I also feel like the hosts have more capability and knowledge than a normal human recovering from trauma, yet seemingly act without real thought. I guess they have to make human errors or whatever but I just don’t buy the character development.
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#17

Post by Cynical Cinephile » May 9th, 2018, 4:44 pm

Anyone pumped for Samuraiworld?

My thoughts on your conversation: I'm pretty sure that Bernard extracted the file from Abernathy, but I thought that he downloaded to his tablet thing, not into himself, so I'm with outdoorcats that he's still suffering from the prior wound which lead to that liquid leaking out of his head.

I like the season 2 so far, it's still very enigmatic, which I didn't really expect. I'm hoping for a new major character to emerge this season.

Btw, that rendition of Seven Nation Army at the beginning was amazing.
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#18

Post by outdoorcats » May 11th, 2018, 2:19 am

Oh yeah, it took me a minute to place it too, even though I used to love that song.
Spoiler: click to toggleShow

The woman with the notebook in Raj World looks to be a new important character, as I believe the actress' name was added to the opening credits (along with Floki from Vikings as the sleazy bald Delos guy who might be a host, and Fares Fares as his tech guy who extracts the cores from their heads).

In addition, I think we'll get some important characters from Shogun World, as some very high profile Japanese actors were announced to be added to the cast this year. I won't spoil them.

-Also, about that notebook (the character's name is Grace?) - in it, we see a symbol of overlapping hexagons which we also saw appear when Bernard was looking at Abernathy's data. Hmm.
-The reason I say Floki (OK, his character is named Karl Strand) might be a host is because of that scene where he and Bernard say the exact same thing in tandem from the premiere and they have a weird little moment. I don't remember who but we had the same thing happen with two hosts this past episode.

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#19

Post by mightysparks » May 11th, 2018, 2:22 am

outdoorcats on May 10 2018, 08:19:26 PM wrote:Oh yeah, it took me a minute to place it too, even though I used to love that song.
Spoiler: click to toggleShow

The woman with the notebook in Raj World looks to be a new important character, as I believe the actress' name was added to the opening credits (along with Floki from Vikings as the sleazy bald Delos guy who might be a host, and Fares Fares as his tech guy who extracts the cores from their heads).

In addition, I think we'll get some important characters from Shogun World, as some very high profile Japanese actors were announced to be added to the cast this year. I won't spoil them.

-Also, about that notebook (the character's name is Grace?) - in it, we see a symbol of overlapping hexagons which we also saw appear when Bernard was looking at Abernathy's data. Hmm.
-The reason I say Floki (OK, his character is named Karl Strand) might be a host is because of that scene where he and Bernard say the exact same thing in tandem from the premiere and they have a weird little moment. I don't remember who but we had the same thing happen with two hosts this past episode.
I thought the woman
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
was a younger version of Theresa at first. Her hair, her posture and the way she smokes were all so similar I thought it had to be her, but I guess not
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#20

Post by outdoorcats » May 14th, 2018, 12:05 am

She does bear an uncanny resemblance...I don't know if that twist could work though? But then again this is Westworld, so I wouldn't be too shocked to have my socks blown off the second time (fool me once and all that).

Tonight: Shogun World! [I'm assuming based on that cliffhanger]

edit - OK, maybe
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
no Shogun World
, but tonight's episode gets all the awards.

I'll have more thoughts in coming days, all I can say for now before going to bed is what a virtuoso performance from Lisa Joy as a director. Just fantastic.
Last edited by outdoorcats on May 14th, 2018, 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#21

Post by Carmel1379 » May 16th, 2018, 6:37 pm

I decided to give this a try, so if I like it enough, I should be able to start discussing it with you guys before the next episode airs.

Edit: Nevermind, I saw the first episode and realised I don't have time for this.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on May 17th, 2018, 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#22

Post by Lilarcor » May 16th, 2018, 7:50 pm

That was indeed an amazing episode, brilliant directing and acting. Far less confused now! (at least, until the next episode airs...)

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#23

Post by maxwelldeux » May 16th, 2018, 10:49 pm

Just a quick appreciation for all y'all using spoiler tags in this thread - I'm still in Season 1, but digging the show. :thumbsup:

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#24

Post by Cynical Cinephile » May 20th, 2018, 9:48 pm

I'm a bit disappointed we didn't get to see Samurai world in the latest episode, but on the flip side, that episode was a fucking masterpiece.

How many hosts do you think have free will as of this episode? There is a chance that we're being set up for a twist and that some that seem to be self-conscious could in fact be someone's puppets.
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#25

Post by outdoorcats » May 20th, 2018, 10:41 pm

Well I've been seeing and hearing a lot of theories that
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Dolores is still Ford's puppet. That being said, as a storytelling move it wouldn't be very smart to completely negate the entire narrative emotional arc of Season 1 (which ended with the revelation that Dolores hears her own inner voice, proving she's alive) for a good twist...so I don't think Joy & Nolan will go for it. I think her newfound sudden confidence has more to do with suddenly being able to access a lifetime's worth of buried memories (when did that happen exactly? hmm) But it does appear that free will or no she is playing into whatever Ford planned for after his death.

But to double back to your question...I don't think there's a binary of free-will / programming in this show, but more of a gradual scale. Most of the hosts appear to be programmed by Ford to react to certain events to help guide William or other characters towards some direction (his "Journey Into Night" narrative), but when they're not doing that I suspect they all have free will--except the ones unaware of any memories beyond their first life will still have an extremely limited set of responses based heavily on their original programmed narrative. Ford suggested last season that consciousness was born out of repeated suffering and having memories of that suffering. So the most conscious ones are the ones who have the most memories of past lives. Those would be Dolores, Maeve, Bernard, and to a lesser extent Teddy, Hector and Armistice.

I think that the twist will be that Karl Strand (Floki from Vikings) and the forgotten Hemsworth brother are both hosts. Also I'm definitely starting to think they all know Bernard is a host in the "present."
Did you all notice the Twin Peaks-like music when
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Bernard and Elsie
first entered the cave? Great homage.
Last edited by outdoorcats on May 20th, 2018, 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#26

Post by Cynical Cinephile » May 24th, 2018, 9:46 pm

Man, Djawadi is amazing. I'm not sure which song (versions of songs) I liked more, Paint it Black or C.R.E.A.M.

Cool episode. Finally, Shogun world.
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#27

Post by outdoorcats » May 25th, 2018, 2:24 am

I didn't have much to write this time; a very entertaining episode but easily my least favorite of the bunch (not in a bad way, just not as good as the others). I think revealing early that
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Maeve has a wifi connection of sorts to nearby hosts and can control them with her mind
definitely killed the suspense of some scenes.
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Only Teddy felt like he was in danger this episode. And Teddy, you in danger, boy. Maybe it's time to break up with Dolores. I'm pretty sure she's just using you at this point. XD But how much are they playing up the "Dolores becoming her own worst enemy" angle...that being said, given the hosts are vastly outnumbered, maybe her way really IS the only way they can survive. When your enemy views you as sub-human and completely nuke-able, there's definitely going to be an element of kill-or-be-killed. She's like the Jean-Jacques Dessalines of Westworld.
I also need more of the
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Bernard and Elsie
tag team; I hope we get to see more of them soon (or at least more Bernard).
Last edited by outdoorcats on May 25th, 2018, 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#28

Post by outdoorcats » May 28th, 2018, 5:09 am

:o :o :o
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Ford lives! Well, his consciousness, anyway--or so I interpreted it. This is the consciousness Bernard remembers making and moving to the "Hive Mind." (AKA The Cradle) Or maybe just a lifelike copy of his consciousness (jury's still out on whether the "original" Delos / Ford are experiencing the rebirths or whether they're just being copied). We'll see. But it certainly explains how he's been able to continue his "game" with William so efficiently as well as a number of other things without resorting to a "he faked his death" twist which negates his emotional arc and the way his suicide paralleled Arnold's.

Also, the wide-screen aspect ratio scenes represent being in the Hive Mind, and it's not Arnold talking to Dolores in those scenes...at least not the original Arnold. It appears the incredible Jeffrey Wright is being given THREE characters to play in this show, as it seems we were being treated to a glimpse of a flash-forward (???) of Dolores testing out a reborn version of Arnold inside the Hive Mind/The Cradle, in the manner of Delos and, presumably, Ford. Of course Delos was physically present in the real world in a host's body. Perhaps that's why he kept hitting a ceiling, and Ford figured out the only way to truly live forever is as code, not tethered to physical reality.

edit: I was so wrong lol

Damn I loved this episode, visually gorgeous and great sound design in the same vein as episode 4. The show is starting to push the surreal and eerie elements to the forefront and the sci-fi is getting headier than ever. All stuff I love. Really this is why I love the show, the stuff that makes us ask uncomfortable questions about what things like the meaning of life, family, and love will mean when the future and technological advancements will fundamentally redefine the nature of life and reality.

Tao Okamoto (Shogun World Armistice) has joined Team Maeve. So has Maeve's daughter who of course doesn't recognize her and thinks of another host as her mother. We all saw that coming, which made the slow build up even more painful. But there's potential for a mother-daughter-like-bond at least for Maeve. Those two might be trading places with Lee and Sylvester, who are calling for backup which will spell trouble (though who at this point is going to bother to try and rescue them?). At this point I'm not sure where this is all going, which is a good thing I guess. We've seen no hint of Team Maeve characters in the present day scenes.

New Teddy is fucking terrifying.
Last edited by outdoorcats on July 1st, 2018, 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#29

Post by outdoorcats » June 12th, 2018, 12:18 am

Westworld fans just let me know when you catch up because we need to talk about these last couple episodes. Last night's was yet another contender for series' best, IMO.

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#30

Post by blueboybob » June 12th, 2018, 12:55 am

This show is starting to get really boring for me. Probably the same reason I don't like Game of Thrones. Too many plots/characters/etc. Very difficult to keep up

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#31

Post by outdoorcats » June 12th, 2018, 2:55 am

I must find other shows too easy to follow. ;)

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#32

Post by mightysparks » June 12th, 2018, 4:03 am

Haven’t watched the latest yet, but last weeks episode was one of the worst. So much exposition and bad acting and dialogue; eg action man to Bernard WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU SAY.
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#33

Post by outdoorcats » June 12th, 2018, 4:08 am

That seemed like a typically aggro response for an angry/frightened mercenary to me, it at least fits with how all of the Delos security guys have been portrayed as these dumb macho brofisting dudes. And Bernard did just mumble something about killing him... :unsure:
(or if you're just criticizing the acting--maybe, I don't really remember)

Overall I thought last week's was great, the two highlights I thought were all the Cradle scenes between Bernard and **** (great acting showcase for two of the show's three best, also helped bring a lot of the show's mysteries into focus) and the showdown between Maeve and William, particularly the bit with Lawrence. Also the aftermath of that scene showed a completely new side of Lee, who weeks ago I fully expected to die before the season ends without showing any character growth.
Last edited by outdoorcats on June 12th, 2018, 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#34

Post by mightysparks » June 12th, 2018, 4:14 am

Yea but it was the delivery and stuff, it just made me burst out laughing. The subtlety of the first season is long gone.
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#35

Post by outdoorcats » June 12th, 2018, 4:18 am

You might like the new episode a lot more. I can't say why, but you'll see I guess? ;)

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#36

Post by allisoncm » June 12th, 2018, 7:02 pm

I watched the first episode of the first season. Amazing actors, but it moved too slow.

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#37

Post by toromash » June 12th, 2018, 10:22 pm

I think the second season has been very flawed and many of the story arcs, which were very delightful to watch in season 1 has become boring and repetitive in certain parts (especially Maeve). But this weeks episode showed that there are still beauty in Westworld, and it´s perhaps the most consistent episode in the whole series.

I agree with the exposition and as we travel deeper it becomes much more annoying, but this was a (bigger) issue back in season 1

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#38

Post by monty » June 12th, 2018, 10:25 pm

outdoorcats on Jun 11 2018, 06:18:47 PM wrote:Last night's was yet another contender for series' best, IMO.
Not a contender but a clear winner - this episode sure packed an emotional punch. And man, that closing scene - pure telly heaven! As for Zahn McClarnon, :worship: :worship:

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#39

Post by outdoorcats » June 13th, 2018, 12:46 am

It was such a fantastically moving story. I also loved how
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
it took on aspects of ancient myths (Akecheta literally has to go to the underworld to try and save his love) with the overall arc of Akecheta, who some viewers are already calling the show's MVP...I still put Bernard and Maeve ahead of him, but jumping from nobody to top 3 in a show full of fantastic actors and great characters ain't bad.

Oh and Lee's scene with Maeve. :( Great work by Simon Quarterman who I'm starting to think might be the most underrated actor on the show.

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#40

Post by Cynical Cinephile » June 15th, 2018, 7:00 am

Another fan of the latest episode. Remember the beginning of the season when I said I don't know who my favorite character was? Well, now it's instantly Akecheta. This was an atypical episode for Westworld, imo, but it's also my favorite. It was like Malick took over the show, with all the beautiful landscapes and narration. It was the most emotional episode of the series so far.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I do agree with whoever said that Maeve's arc isn't as interesting as it was in the first season.
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