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The Twin Peaks Lounge

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The Twin Peaks Lounge

#81

Post by Carmel1379 » August 12th, 2017, 10:32 pm

I dreamt (among other things) of Black Lodge's Red Room, blue strobing lights, "Evil" Cooper and Laura hanging in the air as Leland once did. Post night out, alcohol-infused dreams are the best.

Looks like Blue Rose is getting a hold of me.

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#82

Post by Reflect » August 14th, 2017, 2:16 am

Another great episode (especially the sequence involving Jack Rabbit's Palace).

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#83

Post by blocho » August 14th, 2017, 4:56 am

Wow, that was some crazy shit.

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#84

Post by Cynical Cinephile » August 14th, 2017, 9:58 pm

Great episode. I like how things are starting to slowly come together. Everyone seems to know that there are 2 Coopers, Gordon and co. know about Dougie Jones, Twin Peaks (the place) is becoming relevant again in the broader scheme of things. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.

What is up with Sarah Palmer?
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#85

Post by Reflect » August 15th, 2017, 1:36 am

I don't know. I'm not sure I care much for the Sarah reveal in this episode, but the rest of it was so top notch I didn't really mind.

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#86

Post by blocho » August 15th, 2017, 4:22 am

I like what Lynch has done with Sarah Palmer. Fire Walk with Me was basically an extended meditation on the experience of trauma and abuse. I feel like Sarah Palmer in this series is the same. I'm not sure what's inside of her, but I am completely terrified. When Lynch goes for true horror, he delivers the goods with grotesquerie.

I feel like this series can be seen as an exploration of three themes:
- The humanity of people
- The inhumanity of people
- The human experience of the supernatural and/or surreal

The Sarah Palmer scene in the bar was a gut-punch dose of the last two themes.

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#87

Post by Reflect » August 21st, 2017, 9:25 pm

Part 15 is one of the strongest episodes yet. So many excellent scenes, but the two that stick out to me the most are the conversation with Jeffries (how awesome was that, seriously) and Hawk bidding Margaret goodnight.

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#88

Post by Cynical Cinephile » August 21st, 2017, 9:56 pm

The only thing I don't like about this season is that there are so many scenes that don't move the narrative forward, they're there for nostalgic reasons or whatever. I don't necessarily dislike those moments, but it feels like there are more of these sort of scenes than there are those that actually matter. Just when I think that FBI will figure out about Cooper/Dougie, it doesn't even get addressed in the entire episode (apart from a small humorous moment). Evil Cooper's trip to convenience store was awesome. I'm starting to get extremely curious to see how all of this wraps up.
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#89

Post by Reflect » August 21st, 2017, 10:00 pm

I just think of it as a very long movie. And I've loved a lot of the scenes that haven't moved the plot forward - the songs and asides at The Roadhouse, for example, have greatly added to the atmosphere of the show.

I also don't expect (or want) everything to get tied up though, so there's that.

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#90

Post by Cynical Cinephile » August 21st, 2017, 10:24 pm

When I say "wrap up" I don't mean "everything will get perfectly tied up". I know Lynch's work well enough not to expect that. I'm just wondering where it's all headed.

Another thing that felt weird were Audrey Horne scenes. It's like a couple of days passed everywhere, except in her story, where it seems only 15 minutes or so passed in the last 2-3 episodes. A lot of things happened in the meantime and she's still arguing with her husband about going to the Roadhouse.
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#91

Post by Reflect » August 21st, 2017, 10:50 pm

I think she's trapped. Whether it's in her own mind or something more sinister remains to be seen.

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#92

Post by allisoncm » August 22nd, 2017, 3:34 pm

Cynical Cinephile on Aug 21 2017, 04:24:40 PM wrote:Another thing that felt weird were Audrey Horne scenes. It's like a couple of days passed everywhere, except in her story, where it seems only 15 minutes or so passed in the last 2-3 episodes. A lot of things happened in the meantime and she's still arguing with her husband about going to the Roadhouse.
:lol:

Even her husband finally took off his jacket and decided not to go.

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#93

Post by Cynical Cinephile » August 22nd, 2017, 3:52 pm

The dynamic between the two of them is hysterical, especially because the husband stays calm throughout, no matter what she says (that she's cheating, that she hates him, etc) and she's the one freaking out and being angry at him.

I thought those scenes were mostly comic relief thus far, but Redhawk makes a good point. Thinking about them now, there is something eerie about them.
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#94

Post by allisoncm » August 22nd, 2017, 4:03 pm

Cynical Cinephile on Aug 22 2017, 09:52:50 AM wrote:The dynamic between the two of them is hysterical,
Yeah, every time they're on-screen, I'm usually like WTF.

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#95

Post by Nopros » August 22nd, 2017, 4:38 pm

RedHawk10 on Aug 21 2017, 04:50:13 PM wrote:I think she's trapped. Whether it's in her own mind or something more sinister remains to be seen.
Yup, I think you're right on the nose there.

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#96

Post by brokenface » August 23rd, 2017, 9:27 pm

I held off starting for a while but now I'm all caught up and can safely venture in this thread.

It's been better than I dared imagine. Sure, not everything works; there's so much going on and so many characters that this is inevitable. But then again I could easily imagine watching the whole thing again and finding completely different paths to follow and different scenes would make more sense in light of later ones.

Just so great that Lynch came back to this world :wub:

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#97

Post by brokenface » August 28th, 2017, 8:46 pm

Holy shit. And next week the finale :circle:

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#98

Post by Cynical Cinephile » August 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm

Great episode! Finally, Cooper is back, yay. :banana:

So Audrey finally managed to get to the Roadhouse......kind of. Good call, RedHawk. :thumbsup:

Now you need to solve the mystery of another Horne. I'm talking about Jerry. How long has he been running through those woods and what the fuck did he take? That must be the longest trip ever.
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#99

Post by allisoncm » August 29th, 2017, 5:14 pm

Jerry. We had to turn on the subtitles to figure out what he was saying. Yikes.

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#100

Post by Reflect » August 30th, 2017, 12:50 pm

I hope Jerry survives this whole thing :lol:

As unlikely as it seems at this point, I REALLY hope we see Annie in one of the two final episodes. That's the only lack of resolution that would truly disappoint me.

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#101

Post by blocho » September 3rd, 2017, 4:12 pm

The Finale is Today!!!

I have so many questions that I want resolved, but I know ultimately Frost/Lynch won't resolve many (or any) of them. I think that's for the best. Ambiguity suits this series.

That being said, while I'm giving up on learning any more about vomiting zombie girl, I'd really really love to know:
- What's with the box and the monster that appears in it?
- What's going on with Audrey?
- What's going on with Sarah Palmer?
- What were the consequences of all that 1956 New Mexico stuff?
- What does the black symbol mean?

Of course, the finale could just be two hours of Mike walking in circles in the red room.

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#102

Post by Cynical Cinephile » September 3rd, 2017, 4:34 pm

Oh wow, I wasn't even aware that 2 episodes will air tonight. That's fucking exciting.

I don't think the monster in the box will be addressed again. It looks like it's the same thing shown in "Gotta Light" episode. It might be shown, but probably not outright explained. I do think that the box itself will be addressed, like who is behind it and whatnot.

We probably will find out what's going on with Audrey, not that sure about Sarah.

I'm really looking forward to see how it ends. Overall, I enjoyed this season more than I did the original 2.
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#103

Post by blocho » September 3rd, 2017, 11:40 pm

Cynical Cinephile on Sep 3 2017, 10:34:13 AM wrote:Overall, I enjoyed this season more than I did the original 2.
Same here. Overall, I never really liked the soap opera and quirky character aspects of the original. I've found the comedy and story much better in this season.

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#104

Post by Reflect » September 4th, 2017, 3:07 am

The last two parts were incredible.
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#105

Post by Nopros » September 4th, 2017, 5:34 pm

I love this show to death.

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#106

Post by Reflect » September 4th, 2017, 6:03 pm

I can't believe more people aren't talking about the last two episodes on here. They were earth shatteringly good.

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#107

Post by blocho » September 4th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Episode 18 was one long, slow punch to the gut

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#108

Post by allisoncm » September 4th, 2017, 6:24 pm

What year is this?

(l) (l) (l) (l) (l)
(D:)

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#109

Post by Nopros » September 4th, 2017, 6:35 pm

They're probably too stunned. I just finished watching an hour ago myself and i'm struggeling to find words. :D
So.. Cooper and old Laura travelling to Twin Peaks in this episode was just one of 1989 Laura's dreams? When Sarah called out for Laura, it was her yelling her name back in season 1? Laura realizing she's dreaming, screams, and wakes up in 1989 the morning they found her dead body in the first episode?

Not sure if I make any sense at all.. Man I want another season, although season 3 was all I ever wished for, and more.
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#110

Post by brokenface » September 4th, 2017, 9:49 pm

Just finished it. 17 was astonishingly good. Definitely need to cogitate a lot more on 18, and probably need to start the whole thing over about 430 more times. Lynch can disorientate and find that uncanny spot between awake and dreaming like no-one else.

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#111

Post by Cynical Cinephile » September 5th, 2017, 7:19 am

Fuck, that was a ride. I feel like I need to watch this whole thing again. The way the ending made a full circle with the stuff from the original was uncanny. I still hate typing on my phone, so I'll make a lengthier post when I'm home. I'll just say that I mirror thoughts of those that liked Part 17 more, amazing episode.

The ending left me with more questions than answers. Not that I expected any differently.
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#112

Post by Reflect » September 5th, 2017, 3:19 pm

After having some time to think about it, that was one of the best endings I've ever seen.

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#113

Post by Cynical Cinephile » September 5th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Now for some more elaborate random thoughts.

As I said, I loved the way the ending connected to the beginning. It's been some time since I've watched the original show that I don't know if that was reused footage or if that was just unused footage. Questions I still have:

Is the entire show a dream (of Laura's possibly)? I'm not usually a fan of "it was all a dream interpretations", but it's explicitly said more than once during the show: "we live inside a dream"

What's going on with Audrey? Btw, I still don't know who Billy, Chuck and Tina are.

Who is Judy (Jowday)? The creature (entity) that gave birth to Bob?

Who owns the glass box, what are they trying to achieve and to what purpose?

Who is that magician dude that met Richard Horne at one point?

What happened to Amanda Seyfried subplot? It was kind of introduced and simply abandoned or did I miss something?

Who are Richard and Linda, are those names just random or is there a meaning behind it?

Where did Cooper end up in the last episode, is that some kind of parallel universe? Did the entire timeline change when body of Laura disappeared and when Bob was killed? Is Laura now alive actually (can we connect this to the theory of everything being Laura's dream)?

Did you think that there was something off with Cooper in the last episode or was that just me? He didn't really act like Cooper and he didn't act like Evil Cooper either.

I can't remember anything else I was curious about atm, but if something else crosses my mind, I'll make sure to ask.

On a side note, I didn't really like the Freddie vs Bob-orb fight, it looked a bit silly.


Bottom line, the ending elevated the show in my estimation. It's one of those occasions where I'm left with more questions, but I'm not annoyed by it, I appreciate it for it as a matter of fact. Still, I'd love to hear your theories and answers to these questions.
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#114

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 5th, 2017, 9:21 pm

I had lost hope it would ever happen, but the last episode finally "separated the real Lynch fans from the tourists" as somebody (outdoorcats?) said the show would do around the time it premiered. And this is even though part 17 hardly could have been a more satisfying and beautiful conclusion to it all. I took a break after part 17 because it was overwhelming and perfect, I would have waited longer until watching part 18, but of course it is difficult to resist the temptation when it is already available. But really, if part 18 would have just been a (maybe somewhat altered) compilation of old Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me footage, I would have already been pleased enough with it, I couldn't think of really anything else the series had left to do. But the answer should be obvious, of course Lynch would do a 180 now and use part 18 to create new mysteries and this time it does the opposite of leaving you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. I think Lynch (and of course also) Frost in many ways actually make it easy for any "Twin Peaks-only" fan to just ignore this (non-)conclusion if they feel that it ruins everything for them, yet they seem unable to do so, trying to use the same tactics to make logical sense of it as they did all along, now grappling with theories about alternate universes and timelines and other convenient sci-fi solutions.

What I find revealing about it is how it shows that seemingly during this journey of “Return” the TP fans clung on to all the "Twin Peaks-y" stuff (mainly the mythology and the familiar characters) and this is what kept them watching, while apparently mostly missing out on all the other brilliant things Lynch offered in it. Not to say of course that a lot of it didn’t also very much register for them, after all the best things about Lynch’s films are the ones that barely or not at all can be put into words, so talk about them is mostly either not possible or just unnecessary and fruitless.

I've seen a lot of "Lynch hate" (yes, HATE) going around by TP fans after the finale, to the point where some even said that they feel like they wasted 18 hours now. The same people seemed to be pleased with "Return" up to that point, and apparently they were fine for 25 years with a show that even most fans agree on got for the most part pretty crappy after the reveal of Laura's killer, and this stretch was more than half of the show's run. They also were fine not having many of the answers for 25 years. Appropriately this mirrors the initial FWWM reaction, but what really amazes me in terms of Lynch's achievement is that firstly if you only look at the Lynch-directed episodes of the original run, much of it was actually pretty grim and often cryptic. Then with "Fire Walk With Me" he stripped the symbols of their concrete meanings by furnishing the horrific experiences of Laura's last days with them, which required a more intuitive reading from each viewer. But first he created a fun-house mirror reflection of the show in the first section of the film, providing a similar case and playing out the crime mystery shenanigans with similar characters, and through this subversion reflecting the audience's falsely perceived wholesomeness of the original show back at them.
Now "Return" did the same thing again (it was "happening again" indeed), but amazingly Lynch/Frost didn't just repeat the same trick, this time they took the mythology of both the original show and of FWWM, and made new/extended sense of much of it, seamlessly blending two works that previously rather looked like they were contrasting each other (though Lynch/Frost very much just focused on the mythology of the Lynch-directed episodes from the original run, from what I noticed).

Having seen it in its entirety now "Return" was even more than I thought about itself as a popular show that returned after all these years, and about its audience without whose enthusiastic and loyal fan base it wouldn't have happened. This whole meta-commentary would mean a lot less if it just was some random "arthouse" movie or a sequel to one, but you couldn’t have found a much better-fitting platform for it than the long awaited return of the legendary pop culture phenomenon that is (was?) “Twin Peaks”.
For a long time many people liked to say that what Lynch does and what he is interested in is to just fuck with the audience(‘s mind), not to even say to "troll" them. Well, this time he finally did it, albeit in a meaningful way and also while doing a lot more than just that. But he sure delivered a punch. The "Return"s ending is devastating, up there with the ending of 'Mulholland Dr.', but at least that one was a real ending for the protagonist, it meant the delivering ending to her pain and horror. This one implies that it will never end, an eternal loop of pain and suffering. Damn!

But let’s look at the two parts in more detail.


Part 17:
It couldn’t have started in a more brilliantly poignant way. Before the premiere of the two-part finale many viewers were like: “How can Lynch wrap up all the open questions in just two hours? Those two episodes will be packed./It’s not possible.” Those are pretty much the same feelings viewers have with many other shows before the finale. There always seems to still be so much that needs a resolution. But the lesson when it's all over always is the same one, even the most complex narratives with seemingly myriads of open questions usually can be wrapped up within mere minutes. It can even be done both quickly and elegantly. Or, you know, alternatively just give the audience an exposition dump.
As if to demonstrate this point the first scene has Gordon Cole do exactly that. “Now listen to me.” he says to his FBI colleagues, and savoring the moment he waits for a long time before continuing, because we all know that it’s revelation time now. And sure enough, Lynch’s character explains what’s behind Judy for a couple of minutes and suddenly huge portions of TP’s mysteries fall into place, tumbling like dominoes. “I couldn’t tell you about it”, he says to Albert, “and I’m sorry.” But we understand why it was withheld from us. What’s so hilarious and poignant is that Cole had simply withheld this information which he had all along. For 25 years now, not only demonstrating how easy it is to give all the answers, but hopefully also reminding us how important it is for a mystery to withhold them for a long time or even forever.
By the way, if, for the lols, you want to see Lynch say hello to a mysterious Judy in the Tonight Show back in 2001 and then remain tight-lipped about who this Judy is, check out http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xicks7 (skip to 7:20)

Moving on. Towards the last few parts of “Return” it became more and more apparent to me that through using old and new TP mythology the whole of the season seemed to basically set up a big showdown of good versus evil, superheroes versus supervillains, with Lynch and Frost brilliantly using none of the conventions in structuring this tale. And this is exactly what happens next in part 17, in many ways in a hilariously conventional and over-the-top way, and even more so in a simple way. Evil Cooper is defeated by getting shot...once...with a normal gun...by fucking Lucy! And BOB is a floating roaring bubble that first gets punched into Hell, but BOB naturally feels right at home in Hell and it only revitalizes him, so after a brief pause the fight continues and after a few more power-punches the bubble bursts and the pieces ascend into Heaven. Our hero is an outsider (not only not from Twin Peaks, but not even from the States) of whom we know very little about except for the origin story of his superpowers (all told, none of it witnessed), nor do most viewers care much about “green-gloved British dude”. The whole thing is as if to say: "Do you see now what you were asking for, how silly the things were that you expected the ending to deliver?" Well, it delivered, and even if you realize how silly it is and Lynch saying "fuck you" is palpable, it sure was pretty darn satisfying, still, wasn’t it?

But we are only half-way through in this episode, Lynch goes further in satisfying us and gives us even what we only implicitly and unconsciously asked from the show’s representative, Superagent Cooper. He isn't just meant to find answers, solve mysteries about how the bad things in the world happen, and particularly how the tragic things to Laura happened. Because what is that good for? As if the answers themselves could give any solace to the people of Twin Peaks and especially to the mother that Laura left behind… As if "Evil" being defeated, even if it was possible, wouldn't still leave everyone with their feelings of a painful loss… We implicitly asked from Cooper to make the world right again, and for Twin Peaks this means to undo the tragedy, Laura must never even die.

Cooper seems to get far with it, catching Laura in exactly the right moment. "If only James had run after her that night.", we thought. "It might have saved her." Was Laura really beyond saving? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. But now Cooper does what James didn't do so long ago, and it’s oh so cathartic to witness. But this conclusion eventually crumbles under the impossible weight of its over-convenience [maybe the escapist convenience of TP personifying evil and all its mythology is what the "Convenience Store" always secretly implied, hehe] with the horrific scene of Sarah Palmer smashing Laura's photo because (and this was just my emotional response) she resents her daughter now for never having died (imagine, for example, all the equally traumatic things Sarah could have gone through if she lived 25 more years together with her psychopathic rapist husband and with Laura out of the house). It also reflects how the audience is torn between wanting to see everything made right in Twin Peaks and being grateful for the tragedy, because without it we wouldn't have a Twin Peaks and reversing it wouldn't exactly nullify it, because we would have two versions now, but it would emotionally cheapen the whole series for us.

To me it was still a really beautiful ending because Laura’s “merging” with the forest says that Laura (nor anyone) ever truly dies ("I am dead, yet I live." were her words in Part 2), her presence is still in the air, Laura lives on in the aether of the forest, which also retroactively gives a beautiful special weight to the many shots of trees in the whole show.

Maybe the most amazing reveal for me in terms of "tying up" TP mythology was MIKE's "Fire Walk With Me" poem with every line now suddenly falling into place. Also, the real and ultimate answer to all the mysteries of the series couldn't have been framed in a way that makes its great significant any more obvious, and it only took one short sentence to do it. For I-don't-know-how-many minutes Lynch, without any warning, leaves a barely moving tight closeup of Cooper's face superimposed in the frame while the narrative continues as if nothing is going on (I started to wonder if it was a glitch in the rip). A potentially clunky gimmick, but Lynch wouldn't be Lynch if he didn't make it work more effectively than it has any right to. The superimposition temporarily vanishes during a significant moment, by the way, planting a seed for the last part. When Hugy McHuge Face reappears he finally says something, and it's the only thing he will say. "We live inside a dream." Many viewers dread this answer, and I can understand that. Except that it doesn't ruin any of the inner logic of "Return", the show already gave the answers to all the big mysteries, they still make sense, in fact the flaw is that they make too much sense, it's too simplistic. Further the show and even more Lynch's other work in general very much is about the subconscious and life's likeness to dreams, so does this distinction even matter? Additionally it positions Twin Peaks as a collective dream, a theme that's heavy in this episode - e.g. with the Black Lodge/Fireman's home being exposed as nothing but basically a big deus ex machina whose actions are dictated by nothing else than the audience's collective unconscious, and powered by the energy of our deepest wishes transmitted through the electricity we use to watch them come to life on our TV sets and computer screens. The machine moves the story to where its destiny lies. But as heavy as the theme is in this part, an interpretation of "Twin Peaks" as a collective dream can't be ignored anymore in part 18.


Part 18:
Part 17 was stylistically unusual after the first few minutes, it doesn't have the usual deliberately simple and clean "televisual" style in framing and editing, photographing familiar locations and sets from unusual angles, to subtly unsettling effect. But you ain’t seen nothing yet. In part 18 the controlled style is back - it couldn't be backer - but that's one of the only things that's comfortably familiar. One thing I found captivating about the episode - and in everything I read and heard curiously nobody ever mentioned anything about that - was how real it felt, or naturalistic if you don't like the word real in this context. The most naturalistic Lynch in a long time, maybe even ever. Certainly its contrast to what we are used to from TP helps heighten the effect (which is one of the reasons why it was smart to release it this week together with part 17). The silences in the previous 17 parts were meditative silences, reflective of a oneness with everything, the silences in part 18 on the other hand created the opposite effect for me, making me feel the characters' unease with each other and their own actions. They feel anguished because real people don’t have the assurance of living to fulfill a destiny, their life isn’t a story and they can never be sure if they are doing the right thing or the wrong thing. They don't know what to do with themselves in the next moment and they always wonder if they are behaving in a way that won't cause the people around them to treat, look at them, or think of them in an undesired way. This is an oppressive silence that reflects the oppressive uncertainty of living.

All that typical TP mythology is largely eschewed, traces of it are there, as are some familiar names and characters, but with the characters not quite behaving like their usual self (or selves) and often even with different names. And the symbols that do pop up don’t merely get subverted, they aren't quantifiable anymore, they have not one or even ten meanings, their meaning potentially varies for everyone, and they don't point towards a destiny. The coffee shop “Judy's" is an example of a particularly perverted appearance of a TP symbol just an hour after Gordon Cole explained what that whole thing was about. Now it appears as “Eat At Judy’s”, leading Cooper…I mean Richard to an old Laura Palma…I mean Carrie Page because she works there as a waitress. It makes zero logical sense, nor did Cooper seem to follow any plan in any of this. He does what any TP fan would do in, let’s say, a “Twin Peaks” video game playing the avatar of Special Agent Cooper. What’s undoubtedly ingrained in Cooper’s mind is that he wants to find Laura Palmer, so he drives around, sees “Judy” and “coffee shop”, two symbols that are familiar to him and vaguely connected to the case, so he instinctively stops there, even if the symbols indicate no meaning.
He follows the intuition of a dreamer, answering the earlier asked question asked within a dream of a dreamed up character by a star actress playing herself: “Who is the dreamer?” “Cooper” is the easy answer to this question, and ultimately this doesn't really say anything. But like I said, it was just as much our dream, and on our journey through "Twin Peaks" it sure said a great deal about us.



I still need to watch Part 18 a second time, I might add something about that part later. By the way, I love the fact that the owner of the Palmer house at the end is played by the real owner of the house. How - again - perfect is that?
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on September 6th, 2017, 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#115

Post by Reflect » September 5th, 2017, 9:52 pm

Cynical Cinephile on Sep 5 2017, 10:53:45 AM wrote:Is the entire show a dream (of Laura's possibly)? I'm not usually a fan of "it was all a dream interpretations", but it's explicitly said more than once during the show: "we live inside a dream"

Who is that magician dude that met Richard Horne at one point?

What happened to Amanda Seyfried subplot? It was kind of introduced and simply abandoned or did I miss something?

Who are Richard and Linda, are those names just random or is there a meaning behind it?

Where did Cooper end up in the last episode, is that some kind of parallel universe? Did the entire timeline change when body of Laura disappeared and when Bob was killed? Is Laura now alive actually (can we connect this to the theory of everything being Laura's dream)?

Did you think that there was something off with Cooper in the last episode or was that just me? He didn't really act like Cooper and he didn't act like Evil Cooper either.
1. I didn't take it to be a "it was all a dream" ending at all, and I'm actually surprised how many people I've seen interpreting it that way.

2/3. Red, who is Shelly's current boyfriend. I wish we saw more of him, but ultimately his purpose was just to show that Shelly's taste in men hasn't changed, and it's not much different for her daughter (who obviously meets a very dark fate because of this). I also love the idea that Red was into dark magic, and likely connected to the Black Lodge. After his brief appearance in Part 11, all hell broke loose outside of the diner, almost as if a "caravan" of the Black Lodge was passing by.

I take it that Becky killed herself due to her unhappy relationship and obviously not being completely mentally stable. This is what in turn caused Steven's suicide.

4. "Richard" is a mix of all the Cooper's who is trapped in Judy's "limbo" world that she created after Cooper went back in time to try and prevent Laura's murder from ever happening. In this world, Laura is "Carrie" and Diane is "Linda". I personally think that Carrie's scream at the end of the final episode managed to defeat Judy and return herself to Laura, which leads to her waking up on the day Sarah was calling for her.

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#116

Post by funkybusiness » September 5th, 2017, 10:48 pm

here's a thread from reddit positing that Jow-day is actually 交代 "jiāo dài" meaning to explain. Interesting thought.
https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... 3e17_judy/

and judging from what I've seen on reddit and twitter, I'd say it's a majority of the people who watched the finale hated it. Not an overwhelming majority, but still.

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#117

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 3:05 am

I don't think there's much that I can add to what you said, PdA. The contrast between the last two episodes screened consecutively truly accentuates the show's self-aware "manipulation" of the mythology and fan base, and showing the stuff we talked about back in the monthly thread.

In Part 17 we learn that many of the lengthy subplots that preceded it were carefully teleologically orientated by the author's hand to fit precisely into that coordinated, configured massive gathering that would vanquish BOB thanks to a green (Hulk-smash!) hand as instructed by the other Cooper, to be witnessed by the whole congregation of beloved characters that receive sandwiches (if it were popcorn that would be really over-the-top). Everyone is transported to the Twin Peaks sheriff station by cinematic trickery - by editing, by the cinematic screen itself and the (golden) electronic pipes and tubes that fuel its content. Pieces start to fit together to form a magic circle that'll ecstatically connect to the next phases of adventure - Philip Jeffries, Judy, and who knows what else lies ahead! Will we ever get to see the final boss surrounded by flames? This is only natural, and highly enjoyable; a barrage of public consciousness, expectations and tropes impel any mind to anticipate superheroic sophisticated mythological resolutions, a final revelation and boss fight, explanations.

We do get that, but it's not what or who we expected. The last 1.5 hours of the series return to the character that began it all, that made people throw TVs out of their windows and teenagers run across the schoolyard crying - Laura Palmer. We didn't get to see a lot of her in 'The Return', did we? But the opening credits in their first second always showed her superimposed face with the Peaks, always hinting at us that she's the most important one. After 25 years, if one has to speak of a return, it must be, yet again, nonlinearly, obscuring past and future, to Laura, the little girl down the lane [who went out to play, and Evil followed her, I mean Fire Walked With Her], the woman in trouble.

Dale Cooper, the everyman hero, expresses that sentiment to find Her, to save Her, to recover Her, to guide Her back to Her family. They were connected by multi-dimensional lodges of dreams, after all, she wants his help, that man quite different from her tormentor, Bob. But for all the good will Cooper, James and the audiences might have, nothing can comprehend Laura's (and Sarah's) experiences, not even themselves, multi-faced and vacuous inside, unknowable. Only a scream of horror can express that a "father would rape and murder his own daughter".

Part 18 had to dauntingly subvert everything that preceded it, and not even in the way of "it was all a dream", but to truly soak it in the black colours of the night, which a lonely lost highway traverses, where so many odysseys can happen, spirals of infinity, the shrills of an owl and ambient soundscapes.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 6th, 2017, 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#118

Post by blocho » September 6th, 2017, 5:10 am

Outstanding examination of the last two episodes, PdA. Like Carmel, there's not much I can add.

But I will say that I'm very surprised that the finale is getting so much hate, if what funkybusiness said is true. I can't think of a more Lynchian ending. And anyone who has seen Lost Highway or Mulholland Drive can't have been surprised by it.

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#119

Post by Cynical Cinephile » September 6th, 2017, 8:24 am

Wow, Chinese Jowday theory is great and very fitting with Lynch's body of work and his persona.

I didn't know that was the house's real owner; that's a cool bit of trivia. Excellent post, PdA, I enjoyed reading that.

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Richard did feel like a mix of all Coopers, I guess it wasn't just me. I was wondering if there is a deeper meaning behind the names.

I thought the same about Becky's character; either she killed herself or her boyfriend inadvertently did it.
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#120

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 12:09 pm

Since over 40 years Lynch has been asked by interviewers, fans and critics about the "meaning" of things in his films, about the symbolism and themes of films he liked to make, and Lynch's response was so often his mantra use your intuition and the fact that he himself cannot translate back into words what he had crafted, what ideas conjured up in his mind, what stories, feelings, moods and associations he registers, which doesn't ultimately matter but is only a more beautiful and personal power. The new Twin Peaks is a beautiful self-aware last manifestation of this; by being a cultural phenomenon with a large cult following he and Frost could work on those expectations and utilise ideas they had gathered over the years, without necessarily resolving or developing them. The Roadhouse scenes (and notably Audrey, "Richard & Linda", etc.) are the best example of this. Each episode presents a different set of characters played by fairly well-known actors, each have some story to tell, some banter that's exchanged, accompanied by a live-played song. We'd expect to receive some follow-up on the cryptic details, thoughts and references those characters have: a penguin, rash, hamburger job, or merely a scream when waiting for someone, are all things that are compelling for us to desire more of the same, a spin-off story that will finally weave nicely into the main currents, in a convergent satisfying ending. Lynch says fu to that and hopes that we'll immerse ourselves in the moment, feel those characters in that small instant of their lives, a fragment of an otherwise endless unwritten journey that each and everyone has. Especially Twin Peaks, which is such an extensive and ensemble work can allow those obscure intersections across time to occur, to contain mentions of people we know nothing about, to hint at something extraordinary we never get to see... the message now is possibly to enact those wishes ourselves, take up on the story within our own minds, if there have been any things unresolved and fates of characters not shown - do it yourself, get inspired by the myriad of connections, probe and feel the never-ending odysseys, the vast expanses of the star-filled night. After 18 hours of such subplots presented while Cooper odysseys back with coffee, cherry pie and his suit back to Twin Peaks, the ending returns to the true nucleus of the series - Laura - and even that is given a cryptic, thriving, flowing, immense breakaway to think about. [Yeah, I know, this was basically rephrasing what has been said earlier, but whatever.]
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 6th, 2017, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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